L.A.B. DF3 Putters - 2024 Forum Review

[Steve F]

Speaking of those pesky 3 putts: This weekend was a lot better with the short game, and I have to say that at this point in my golf career, I'm overall happy with the way this weekend went! Got out to play 18 on Saturday in an intermittent rain, but was still happy with the game overall. Played a course on Sunday that I haven't played since I started this wonderful endeavour at Greystone, and there, too was very happy overall with the game! Also had the pleasure of playing that 9 with a friend I haven't golfed with in about 8 months, and his first comment was, "Damn, you've definitely gotten a lot better!" That alone was worth the price of admission! He was also fascinated with the DF3 and tried it a few times.... and his comments were "It feels natural, like you don't have to force the putter, just let it swing." That being said, he pulled every putt with it slightly left, so there is a learning curve with the DF3 compared to his particular putter. 
From a putting standpoint, I divulged the stats for the Spider in a previous comment and also linked that information to my main feed: for the 2 years I used it I was averaging 2.1 putts / hole. This weekend, the putts/hole avg was definitely down, especially at Greystone (with a witness, thank goodness! My kids always tell me "If there were no witnesses, it didn't happen!"), so I have no complaints with the short game this weekend! .... or with my rounds overall at this point! I'm seeing overall improvement, especially in my short game and am anxious to see that continued improvement down the road! Hey, if I can keep the 3 putts down to zero as I did at Greystone this weekend.... ! 

TM Spider recap: 

 

05/18/24 and 05/19/24 rounds: 

This I can say at this point concerning the DF3: I am getting used to it and feel a lot more confident when putting at this time. When I pull the Mamba from the bag to go to work, it seems there is less junk running through my head and I am looking FORWARD to the putt! Must be something in the venom! 
I am hearing some of my esteemed testers making the comment that they hear a "tinny" sound when putting? That I can safely say I have not experienced to this point. I have heard nothing but solid and confident contact on each putt so far. 
If there is anything from my perspective you'd like, please let me know! 
Have a great day, more info to come! 

[GolfSpy SAM]

1 hour ago, jbern said:

Yes, I thought the same thing when I read @GolfSpy SAM's 26 putt comment! 26 putts is awesome, even for poor approach days! Very impressive performance! Sounds like the switch from the DF2.1 to DF3 is very smooth!

It’s 100% been seamless so far. I won’t be parting with the 2.1, though - might wall-hang it in a place of honor (on the wall above my headboard with a spotlight, like a piece of art?), or just rotate with the 3.0

Like this, only not as classy. I’m sure my wife will love it. 

[jbern]

3 minutes ago, GolfSpy SAM said:

It’s 100% been seamless so far. I won’t be parting with the 2.1, though - might wall-hang it in a place of honor (on the wall above my headboard with a spotlight, like a piece of art?), or just rotate with the 3.0

Like this, only not as classy. I’m sure my wife will love it. 

Just spit-balling here... I think you should shine a spotlight through the hole in the back so it looks like something beneath it is getting abducted! 

[jbern]

I was able to get a few Exputt "Analysis" sessions in with Dory last week before I left for my work trip. Unfortunately, most of the sessions gave me an error that there was not enough data to show my statistics for putter face impact angle and putter path. I'm going to post something in the Exputt testing thread for advice (I think it's a lighting issue).

I did get one to work out and below are the results:

My previous Exputt scores with Dory were 68.5, 67.7, 69.7 and now 70.2. I think I am slowly, but surely, getting used to DF3 distance control and I expect scores on the Exputt to continue to go up the more reps I put in! 

As others have mentioned regarding the "tinging" sound on off center strikes... I have not experienced anything that alarms me. There is definitely a higher pitched sound when not striking the center of the face, but I didn't find it offensive.

[cnosil]

7 minutes ago, jbern said:

I was able to get a few Exputt "Analysis" sessions in with Dory last week before I left for my work trip. Unfortunately, most of the sessions gave me an error that there was not enough data to show my statistics for putter face impact angle and putter path. I'm going to post something in the Exputt testing thread for advice (I think it's a lighting issue).

Pretty sure you need to save 5 sessions before you will see the summary information.   Lighting and camera height are the two big reasons that data isnt captured.   The closer to max height you are the more reliable the capture.   You could also do what I did during the sacks Parente testing, I hit puts and captured the data in excel so I could do more detailed analytics.  

[Cfhandyman]

21 hours ago, GolfSpy SAM said:

Forgot to update here!  Had another round on Friday with the Green Lantern, and managed 26(!) putts, no 3-putts, 10 1-putts.  

  To be fair, good readers, I wasn't exactly draining 20-footers left and right.  I had a TERRIBLE approach day (17% GIR, brutal).  But my wedges once again came to the rescue and left me 5-6-footers almost all day.  I made a 9-footer for birdie, which felt terrific, and a 10-footer for par, but basically everything else was 6-feet and in.

  That being said - no 3-putts felt fantastic, especially considering I had several approaches where I had no choice but to aim for the opposite side of the green from the pin, and had 40+ feet first-attempts, and never left myself more than 6 feet for the 2nd putt (usually inside 3 feet, which was awesome).  

  This thing just continues to flat-out perform, and I'm really finding the long-arrow-alignment aid to be incredibly effective at guaranteeing I'm lined up correctly behind the ball - any "askew-ness" (I made that word up and am sticking with it) is really easy to see with the extended arrow through the back of the putter.

  Also, I'll touch briefly here on forgiveness - the 10-footer I made for par, I hit plainly out of the toe - not even a "little toe-y", but, like, barely on the face of the putter, and it held the line perfectly and entered center-cut.  Yes, it was a little ting-y in sound, but if that's the worst of a 10-footer being struck out of the toe, I think I can handle it  

  Unfortunately, this is the last round I'll be getting in before heading to Virginia for the MGS Outing (cannot. wait.), as I have a family getaway next weekend, but I'll be trying to get out at least once during the week to hit a range/practice session, so I'll report back in then. 

  Really loving this putter a lot.  

Matt, this is an awesome performance.  Anytime your total putts are in the twenty range is excellent.  The number that jumps out is the ten one putts and no three putts.  Very well done.  All hail, the Green Lantern.

[jbern]

34 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Pretty sure you need to save 5 sessions before you will see the summary information.   Lighting and camera height are the two big reasons that data isnt captured.   The closer to max height you are the more reliable the capture.   You could also do what I did during the sacks Parente testing, I hit puts and captured the data in excel so I could do more detailed analytics.  

Thank you! I posted something in the Exputt thread for a more detailed discussion. I will take a look at your Sacks Parente review and get some tips! So far, I've been photographing each screen after the session ends and putting that data in excel for scoring.

[Cfhandyman]

Indoor putting test  -  (L.A.B. DF3 Vs. Evnroll)

I had a chance to test the putters head to head on an indoor putting green at my local golf facility.  I made putts from the following measured distances:

a) 5 feet - 25 putts in total for each putter

b) 10 feet - 50 putts in total for each putter

c) 20 feet -50 putts in total for each putter

I would attempt 5 putts and then switch putters and make another 5 putts.  25 putts each for the 5 foot distance and 50 putts for each putter from the ten foot and twenty foot distances.  The results are as follows:

    

As one can see, the results are essentially the same for both putters. The only thing I observed was that on the misses on the 20 foot putts, the dispersion was tighter with the L.A.B., approximately 1-3 feet, majority were 6" to 2 feet, whereas they were 1 - 4 feet with the Evnroll. with the majority in the 1-3 feet range.  Both performed admirably and I was very pleased with the overall results.

At this point, my friend a PGA teaching professional, gave it a go from 10 and 20 feet. He absolutely loved the L.A.B.  When, I gave him the Evnroll, his first comment, was damn this is pretty good too.

 

[jbern]

On 5/19/2024 at 10:30 AM, Golf2Much said:

As someone who's broken ribs (via a head on car accident and seat belts), I can give you the following advice:  Take it easy, don't overdo it and do not watch any comedy movies or shows!  A week after breaking my ribs, my wife wanted to go see Something About Mary.  I laughed so hard I think I broke another rib!  Overall, I think that two hours pushed back my recovery by a week.  

Yes, laughter is supposed to healing, but I tried to squash it as fast as possible because of the pain!  Sneezing was my absolute nemesis (spring allergy season!!) and has caused me to keel over onto the floor about half a dozen times! Thankfully, things have been getting better! So here's the rib update:

It's been 2 weeks since the rib pain started. Yesterday morning and this morning were the first two days where the discomfort has been lower than the previous day, so I'm thinking that the rest has helped! I did take a few swings yesterday and I didn't have any additional pain or discomfort. I'm planning to rest for three or 4 more days and then I'll try to get a 9 hole round in later this week or this weekend!

[Golf2Much]

16 minutes ago, jbern said:

Yes, laughter is supposed to healing, but I tried to squash it as fast as possible because of the pain!  Sneezing was my absolute nemesis (spring allergy season!!) and has caused me to keel over onto the floor about half a dozen times! Thankfully, things have been getting better! So here's the rib update:

It's been 2 weeks since the rib pain started. Yesterday morning and this morning were the first two days where the discomfort has been lower than the previous day, so I'm thinking that the rest has helped! I did take a few swings yesterday and I didn't have any additional pain or discomfort. I'm planning to rest for three or 4 more days and then I'll try to get a 9 hole round in later this week or this weekend!

I have to agree with you on sneezes!  

[MattWillGolf]

I took Nemo my DF3 out for some putter testing against my ER11v on the practice green of my home course. I did two rounds of five putts from 5ft, 10 ft and 20 ft. I would alternate which putter started the from each distance. I would not count the first putt unless the putt went in as I didn't want the first putter at each position to be penalized for not having the benefit of a prior read. I also switched holes after both putters completed a full round. For this first round of testing the DF3 performed slightly better than the ER11v. More to come.

  

 

   

[Cfhandyman]

MGS Tester of the Week – Chris Freitag Profile

In a continuing feature of the L.A.B. DF3 putter testing, we are introducing the MyGolfSpy Tester of the week for the L.A.B. DF3.  Each week we will highlight one of the testers. The purpose is to highlight the great work they are doing, but also to get to know them a bit better.  This weeks, tester of the week is none other than,   @Cfhandyman  With his able assistant, Myah (I’ll do anything for treats).

Where he’s from: As the lone Canadian and international tester of the tester group, he lives in Oakville, halfway between Toronto and Hamilton and about an hour from Buffalo. 

  Fun fact: Two thirds of Canadians live within 60 miles (100 Km) from the US border and approximately 70% live below the 49th parallel.  So while he lives north of the border, he is not the northernmost tester.  That honor belongs to @GolfSpy MPR

 Who he is: Currently working on career number 4 as a “retired for now” 65 year old male.  He is driven by the constant need to learn and improve and challenge himself and have fun doing it. He believes in the motto,  if you’re going to do something, do it well and do it right.  After spending his working life in healthcare, from medical research to organ donation and transplantation to rare diseases, his underlying philosophy of what does the data actually show applies to the testing of the L.A.B. DF3 putter.

Upcoming Testing: He will be testing the L.A.B. DF3 in an upcoming putter fitting at TXG (Club Champion Canada) on the gold standard for putter testing, Quintic. Since not everyone is familiar with Quintic or has used it or have never had a putter fitting, he will do a brief mini review on how to interpret the numbers on Quintic, what they mean, why its important and how it impacts your putting. 

     

He will also put the L.A.B. head to head against his comparator putters to determine how each one measures on Quintic as well as what the fitter would recommend.  While his putters have been fitted, they have never been tested head to head on Quintic. Will it be able to tell him which putter works best for him or will his on course data and observations rule the day.  Can the L.A.B. DF3 knock his current putter, the Evnroll Tourstroke out of the bag?  Right now, its neck and neck, but the L.A.B. DF3 to date has performed incredibly well.  More to come.

His testing protocol

Initial impressions after 3 rounds:

[Steve F]

Good morning! Another several data gathering sessions are in the books. I was able to go home on Monday before the wife got home and start doing some putting with both the Mamba and the Spider. I had spoken to several people and due to the learning curve and the difference in the feel between the two putters, my original intention was to gather as much data on the Spider as possible prior to the arrival of the Mamba. The Mamba arrived way ahead of schedule so I put the Spider down. I didn't want to criss cross the feel of both putters at the same time. That being said, I worked exclusively with the Mamba since he arrived, so no touches with the Spider for about two and half weeks. Reading the thread from our fellow testers made me realize I should be doing them together with the same amount of small touches with each, so I rearranged my data gathering method to include both at the same time. As earlier stated, I got home Monday from work before SWMBO and started putting indoors. Those numbers are here: 

I was up until around 10:30 putting and gathering data. Right now, they are pretty darn close when compared indoors on this particular session! Tuesday, I went to one of my local haunts at Fox Hollow GC to do some outdoor testing on the practice green. I did my normal setups but did 5 putts with each in succession instead of just putting with one for the entire session. One thing of note: I felt like I was pushing the Mamba harder, it feels perceptibly lighter to me. From 3', I pushed 3 hard enough to have them lip out. From an accuracy standpoint, right now I feel the Mamba has a slight advantage: the misses dispersal is much tighter with the DF3 than with the Spider. 

Then I did some lag putting leaving my markers at 3', 5', 7' and 10'. This was interesting for this session. 

From 20' out I felt like the Mamba was hands down a better feel, left tighter dispersions. From longer than that, I felt like I was pushing it harder and it became a little "unruly". For this session from 40', the Spider felt more controllable, like it had more heft behind it: it didn't take as much effort to get the ball to move. 
Tonight is league night, so some on course data to follow. 

Edited May 22 by Steve F

[Cfhandyman]

50 minutes ago, Steve F said:

Good morning! Another several data gathering sessions are in the books. I was able to go home on Monday before the wife got home and start doing some putting with both the Mamba and the Spider. I had spoken to several people and due to the learning curve and the difference in the feel between the two putters, my original intention was to gather as much data on the Spider as possible prior to the arrival of the Mamba. The Mamba arrived way ahead of schedule so I put the Spider down. I didn't want to criss cross the feel of both putters at the same time. That being said, I worked exclusively with the Mamba since he arrived, so no touches with the Spider for about two and half weeks. Reading the thread from our fellow testers made me realize I should be doing them together with the same amount of small touches with each, so I rearranged my data gathering method to include both at the same time. As earlier stated, I got home Monday from work before SWMBO and started putting indoors. Those numbers are here: 

I was up until around 10:30 putting and gathering data. Right now, they are pretty darn close when compared indoors on this particular session! Tuesday, I went to one of my local haunts at Fox Hollow GC to do some outdoor testing on the practice green. I did my normal setups but did 5 putts with each in succession instead of just putting with one for the entire session. One thing of note: I felt like I was pushing the Mamba harder, it feels perceptibly lighter to me. From 3', I pushed 3 hard enough to have them lip out. From an accuracy standpoint, right now I feel the Mamba has a slight advantage: the misses dispersal is much tighter with the DF3 than with the Spider. 

Then I did some lag putting leaving my markers at 3', 5', 7' and 10'. This was interesting for this session. 

From 20' out I felt like the Mamba was hands down a better feel, left tighter dispersions. From longer than that, I felt like I was pushing it harder and it became a little "unruly". For this session from 40', the Spider felt more controllable, like it had more heft behind it: it didn't take as much effort to get the ball to move. 
Tonight is league night, so some on course data to follow. 

Steve, great job with this.  I was particularly interested in your 3', 5', 7' and 10' results.  I've had similar experience with 40+ foot putts with the L.A.B. in that I would push or get too handsy with it and the putts would come up significantly short, leaving me a 7-8' to save my bacon.  I just need more practice doing speed and lag drills.  Love the hand written notes.  Definitely old school.  Well done.

[Cfhandyman]

@CFreddie welcome back from vacation.  In a little tongue and cheek, Chewie  has been frantic with worry wondering where you had gone.  He was getting ready to put out an all points bulletin.  He even called his Uncles Shazam and "Black" Mamba for help and guidance.  Your siblings, Nemo, Dory and Lab rat have been frantic with worry.  Even the great and magnificent Green Lantern was notified.  He is delighted that you are back and ready to show you how good a boy he has been in your absence.  Glad you enjoyed your vacation.

 

[CFreddie]

Haha, thanks for the morning laugh @Cfhandyman - don't worry Chewie was consoled the second I walked in the door (along with my kids, of course ).

[Steve F]

39 minutes ago, Cfhandyman said:

Steve, great job with this.  I was particularly interested in your 3', 5', 7' and 10' results.  I've had similar experience with 40+ foot putts with the L.A.B. in that I would push or get too handsy with it and the putts would come up significantly short, leaving me a 7-8' to save my bacon.  I just need more practice doing speed and lag drills.  Love the hand written notes.  Definitely old school.  Well done.

Thank you Chris @Cfhandyman!
As odd as this may sound, I'm glad I'm not alone in that feeling with the longer lag putts: that is definitely something that needs some more dedicated attention on my behalf as well! 

[BreakfastBall15]

1 hour ago, Steve F said:

Good morning! Another several data gathering sessions are in the books. I was able to go home on Monday before the wife got home and start doing some putting with both the Mamba and the Spider. I had spoken to several people and due to the learning curve and the difference in the feel between the two putters, my original intention was to gather as much data on the Spider as possible prior to the arrival of the Mamba. The Mamba arrived way ahead of schedule so I put the Spider down. I didn't want to criss cross the feel of both putters at the same time. That being said, I worked exclusively with the Mamba since he arrived, so no touches with the Spider for about two and half weeks. Reading the thread from our fellow testers made me realize I should be doing them together with the same amount of small touches with each, so I rearranged my data gathering method to include both at the same time. As earlier stated, I got home Monday from work before SWMBO and started putting indoors. Those numbers are here: 

I was up until around 10:30 putting and gathering data. Right now, they are pretty darn close when compared indoors on this particular session! Tuesday, I went to one of my local haunts at Fox Hollow GC to do some outdoor testing on the practice green. I did my normal setups but did 5 putts with each in succession instead of just putting with one for the entire session. One thing of note: I felt like I was pushing the Mamba harder, it feels perceptibly lighter to me. From 3', I pushed 3 hard enough to have them lip out. From an accuracy standpoint, right now I feel the Mamba has a slight advantage: the misses dispersal is much tighter with the DF3 than with the Spider. 

Then I did some lag putting leaving my markers at 3', 5', 7' and 10'. This was interesting for this session. 

From 20' out I felt like the Mamba was hands down a better feel, left tighter dispersions. From longer than that, I felt like I was pushing it harder and it became a little "unruly". For this session from 40', the Spider felt more controllable, like it had more heft behind it: it didn't take as much effort to get the ball to move. 
Tonight is league night, so some on course data to follow. 

Excellent write up and great data!

[jbern]

2 hours ago, Steve F said:

Good morning! Another several data gathering sessions are in the books. I was able to go home on Monday before the wife got home and start doing some putting with both the Mamba and the Spider. I had spoken to several people and due to the learning curve and the difference in the feel between the two putters, my original intention was to gather as much data on the Spider as possible prior to the arrival of the Mamba. The Mamba arrived way ahead of schedule so I put the Spider down. I didn't want to criss cross the feel of both putters at the same time. That being said, I worked exclusively with the Mamba since he arrived, so no touches with the Spider for about two and half weeks. Reading the thread from our fellow testers made me realize I should be doing them together with the same amount of small touches with each, so I rearranged my data gathering method to include both at the same time. As earlier stated, I got home Monday from work before SWMBO and started putting indoors. Those numbers are here: 

I was up until around 10:30 putting and gathering data. Right now, they are pretty darn close when compared indoors on this particular session! Tuesday, I went to one of my local haunts at Fox Hollow GC to do some outdoor testing on the practice green. I did my normal setups but did 5 putts with each in succession instead of just putting with one for the entire session. One thing of note: I felt like I was pushing the Mamba harder, it feels perceptibly lighter to me. From 3', I pushed 3 hard enough to have them lip out. From an accuracy standpoint, right now I feel the Mamba has a slight advantage: the misses dispersal is much tighter with the DF3 than with the Spider. 

Then I did some lag putting leaving my markers at 3', 5', 7' and 10'. This was interesting for this session. 

From 20' out I felt like the Mamba was hands down a better feel, left tighter dispersions. From longer than that, I felt like I was pushing it harder and it became a little "unruly". For this session from 40', the Spider felt more controllable, like it had more heft behind it: it didn't take as much effort to get the ball to move. 
Tonight is league night, so some on course data to follow. 

Love the data and testing strategy! Sounds like you were able to get a lot of reps in!

[GolfSpy_KFT]

1 hour ago, CFreddie said:

Haha, thanks for the morning laugh @Cfhandyman - don't worry Chewie was consoled the second I walked in the door (along with my kids, of course ).

Priorities, amirite? 

[arodrig29]

In my travels, I was recently able to spend some time at a PGA superstore trying out the LAB putter. I can officially say, with 100% confidence, that I will be purchasing one of these bad boys at some point… Lol. I found the stroke to be, effortless. I am not sure if it’s because of the balancing? Or perhaps because of how the shaft and handle are engineered? All I know is, the “I need a LAB putter savings extravaganza” begins today… Lol.

[mpatrickriley]

Home, again!

After many miles, I arrived back here in the UP yesterday. Time to get back to work reviewing Shazam!

I'm aiming to get a data-collection session in with each of the DF3, ER11v, and EAS 4.0 this afternoon. That will bring me up to four sessions of data with the Evnroll and Edel, and three sessions with the L.A.B. Again, my goal is to have 10 total sessions with each.

Our club's men's golf league begins tomorrow night. Once again, I have the privilege of playing with my dad as my teammate. After playing in a scramble last week, I'll finally be in a position to start getting some serious on-course data collection. So far, as per my previous post, the DF3 has been doing really well on course. My distance control is surpassing my expectations—it's time to start making some 5-10' putts to really get my Arccos SG numbers moving the right direction.

Need to get to the course a few evenings, when I have some time, to do some Stack putting sessions.

Because of this trip, I'm a little behind here: aiming for early next week to update my main post with first impressions and more pictures.

Right now, I think it's looking extraordinarily likely that the DF3 becomes my main putter going forward. To be honest: I'm kinda looking forward to being done collecting comparative data between the putters, so that I can focus all my time dialing in the L.A.B. But compiling data in the MGS way, and we wouldn't do it differently.

[bbanksp1]

Have been using DF2.1 for 2 years. Own DF3 and Mezz Max also but they can’t push the DF2.1 out of the bag. After using both I don’t really understand why anyone would use the DF3 instead. 
 

My misses tend to be pulls which I think has to do with the shaft lean and press grip but I haven’t totally solved that puzzle yet. 

[Cfhandyman]

2 hours ago, arodrig29 said:

In my travels, I was recently able to spend some time at a PGA superstore trying out the LAB putter. I can officially say, with 100% confidence, that I will be purchasing one of these bad boys at some point… Lol. I found the stroke to be, effortless. I am not sure if it’s because of the balancing? Or perhaps because of how the shaft and handle are engineered? All I know is, the “I need a LAB putter savings extravaganza” begins today… Lol.

If you’re going to get a L.A.B., make sure to do there online fitting to get the right length and lie angle. There standard models usually come in at 34 or 35” with 69* lie angle. They do have a lovely weight and balance to them.  You may also want to check out their outlet store www.labgolfoutlet.com  You can thank @cnosil for that little tidbit. 

[mpatrickriley]

Back to the lab. Or to the L.A.B.

[mpatrickriley]

I didn't get the Evnroll session in today, but I did one more with Edel and the third session with my DF3. Two data point observations.

This is the Blast Motion lie angle number. It's measuring the lie angle at impact vs address. I'm tracking here both the average lie change angle at impact for the 18 putt sequence, and the difference between the highest and lowest lie angles at impact. 

So far, the L.A.B. is definitely the best-performing of the three putters in this test at returning a consistent lie angle. In my scoring system, it's gone 90-90-88. By comparison, the Edel has been 89-85-89-91, and the Evnroll 93-89-86. Obviously, still a smallish sample (which is why I'm adding more), but consistent with what might be expecting from L.A.B.'s claims. 

Following from that, here are ExPutt's measurement of face angle at impact: 

What stand out here is the trajectory. Today's session with the DF3 was far and away not only the best session for face angle that I've had with it so far, it was the best of any of the three putters so far. The DF3's 86.3 dwarfs the ER11v's best of 81.6 and the Edel's best of 77.1.

Again, still a lot more data to collect, but there are real signs that I'm getting more comfortable with the DF3.

[Clemsonfan]

@GolfSpy MPR and @jbern, I see that you both are using a counterbalance design.   I have been testing 38” counterbalance DF3s and the Mezz Max. Never having putted with a CB design before I have been pleasantly surprised.  I think it might be the lack of shaft lean. I struggled with the DF 1 from short to medium distances and ultimately shelved it. I have been a big fan of putters with this design in the past and eagerly anticipated the DF3. Has the lack of shaft lean been helpful or have you noticed it versus a standard length? Thanks in advance!

[jbern]

10 hours ago, Clemsonfan said:

@GolfSpy MPR and @jbern, I see that you both are using a counterbalance design.   I have been testing 38” counterbalance DF3s and the Mezz Max. Never having putted with a CB design before I have been pleasantly surprised.  I think it might be the lack of shaft lean. I struggled with the DF 1 from short to medium distances and ultimately shelved it. I have been a big fan of putters with this design in the past and eagerly anticipated the DF3. Has the lack of shaft lean been helpful or have you noticed it versus a standard length? Thanks in advance!

Before yesterday, I had never used a standard DF3 with one of the Press II grips. I was able to get to a PGA Tour Superstore before my flight out of the Salt Lake City area and I took a few putts with a standard DF3 with the Press II pistol grip. So the timing of this question is pretty interesting!!

The first thing that I noticed was the shaft lean and was surprised with how intense the shaft lean was. However, after the first few putts I no longer noticed the shaft lean. I believe this is because the Press II pistol grip feels SO GOOD and is VERY COMFORTABLE! If you've been trying DF3s with other grips, give the pistol a try!

The benefit of the counterbalance, for me, is that I was basically gaming a counterbalance putter in the armlock Sub70 AL-6 for the last full season exclusively. The counterbalance option made the feel and comfort of the transition easier. I found my hands and wrists getting more involved with the standard putter and the counterbalance version seems to minimize that. 

So to answer your question directly, I do not think the lack of shaft lean has been helpful. I certainly noticed the shaft lean on standard putters, but the surprise faded quickly. I think it's more of the comfort between the counterbalance grip, where I grip, and the head weight.

Hopefully this helps!

[Cfhandyman]

Quintic ball roll system – What is it, how is it used in putter fittings, what do the numbers mean and how it can help your putting?  

The putter is the most used club in your bag accounting for 35 – 40% of your strokes, yet the percentage of golfers fit for a putter is only about 5% to 19%, compared to 55% - 66% for the driver (Golf Datatech, MGS, GolfDigest).  Tomorrow, I go for a putter fitting at TXG (Club Champion Canada) where I will be comparing my previously fitted putters on Quintic.  The L.A.B. DF3 was fitted through an online fitting with L.A.B., but I have not tested it on Quintic.  So what will the numbers show?  As an aid to readers, I will give a brief overview of the Quintic ball roll system and what to look for.

Introduction: Quintic was started by Dr. Paul and Robert Hurrion in the late nineties. It specializes in sports biomechanics video analysis software and biomechanics and performance analysis. Quintic is the gold standard for measuring putter performance and utilizes a high-speed camera (360 – 1080 frames per second) to track the putter and golf ball throughout the impact zone.  The machines are quite expensive, so you typically will only see them in high end fitting establishments.  See figure 1 and 2.

Figure 1 (Quintic ball roll)                                                        Figure 2 (putting studio at TXG Toronto with Quintic)

   

The ball is specially marked to highlight roll.  In a putter fitting, you will be asked to make at least six to ten 12 foot putts on a level stable platform while the high speed camera catches your motion and subsequent ball roll.   When you use it the first time, you tend to be fixated on actually making the putt and hoping the key metrics are either amber or green and pray for blue, but avoid red.

So what does it measure:  It measure over 45 different variables as it relates to the ball and putter, but they are broken down into the following 5 most important categories: 

1.      Face angle and start direction (Face angle at impact accounts for 85-90% of the start direction of a putt)

2.      Clubhead twist

3.      Ball speed and pace control

4.      Launch angle

5.      Spin and roll

In general, there are typically three generalized styles of putting stroke. 

1.      Straight back, straight through: The putter moves in a straight line away from the ball and straight through the ball, although technically all putts have a little bit of arc.

2.      Minimum Arc: There’s a slight arc to the path of the putter head with minimal face rotation.

3.      Lots of arc and face rotation: The putter head moves with a noticeable arc and plenty of face rotation.

Golfers who have an arc to their stroke with more face rotation usually prefer or fit into toe-weighted or heel-shafted putters. This gives them more control over face angle at impact. Golfers with less arc and face rotation generally fit into a plumber’s neck model putter. These putters generally suit strokes with minimal arc and face rotation.

Figure 3 shows the data capture for a typical putt highlighting attack angle, face angle, launch angle, path etc.  Amber indicates average, green is very good, red is poor and blue is tour level (elite).

Figure 3 (screen view)

 

Tomorrow: The importance of face angle, the start direction of a putt and make ability of putts.

For more see the link below of Ian Fraser’s putter fitting with Dr. Paul Hurrion of Quintic  https://youtu.be/oKP8QoC1wQIttps://youtu.be/oKP8QoC1wQI

 

 

 

[mpatrickriley]

13 hours ago, Clemsonfan said:

@GolfSpy MPR and @jbern, I see that you both are using a counterbalance design.   I have been testing 38” counterbalance DF3s and the Mezz Max. Never having putted with a CB design before I have been pleasantly surprised.  I think it might be the lack of shaft lean. I struggled with the DF 1 from short to medium distances and ultimately shelved it. I have been a big fan of putters with this design in the past and eagerly anticipated the DF3. Has the lack of shaft lean been helpful or have you noticed it versus a standard length? Thanks in advance!

My rationale for going with the CB was to split the difference between my Edel (standard length for me at 34") and my Evnroll Midlock (40"). I was hoping to retain some of the wrist stability of the armlock while also retaining some of the feel of a standard putter. The early indoor data suggests that this might end up working. HackMotion measures wrist stability during the putting stroke. So far, here are my numbers with the Midlock:

Here are my HackMotion results with the Edel (with one crazy bad outlier day):

And here's what I have so far through three sessions with the counterbalanced DF3:

So from a raw data perspective, the counterbalanced DF3 is sitting neatly between the standard and armlock putters for wrist stability, with far more consistency than the standard length putter.

Again, I'm still needing to collect more on course data, which is where things really matter.

As for the shaft lean: I guess for my part, I'd say I simply don't notice it too much. The DF3 is so altogether unconventional that it's almost hard to notice the particular ways in which it is weird. I suspect you, if you're going to make this your putter, you either are comfortable with an idiosyncratic putter or you're not.