Stacy Lewis has a Wage Gap

[PlaidJacket]

For some reason I get two subscriptions to Golf Magazine. I didn't knowingly subscribe to either. I usually throw one away and leaf through the other copy before tossing it out as well. So last night I was flipping through the magazine and ran across a KPMG ad toward the back of the magazine.

 

Basically the ad was presented by KPMG featuring Stacy Lewis. In the ad Stacy talks about and provides facts and figures to support the income disparity between men's pro golf and the LPGA. In general the article-ad says the LPGA needs more eyeballs so the ladies can make more money. Damnit!

 

I made a quick search and found that Stacy has earned $11,744,373 since joining the LPGA in 2009.

 

I don't want to start a controversy and I have my thoughts on the subject. But first I thought instead I'd toss this out to our hoard of experts and opinion providers. I might chime in later with a few thoughts of my own.

 

I think we can all agree that the ladies on the LPGA are pretty darn good. I wish I had half their game.

 

Don't all women pro golfers deserve to get wealthy like Stacy... or Phil, or Tiger, or ?., ?., ?. The ladies do the same thing. Right?

[robertson153]

Yes they do the same thing. On the other hand it's like the WNBA, they do not draw the crowds in (generate revenue) like the men do. Why? In my OPINION it's because there are 20-1 maybe even 30-1 men to women amateur golfers. An amateur male golfer does not want the clubs, outfits, exc.. that Stacy Lewis or Lexi Thompson has. I'm not taking anything away from female golfers, they work just as hard if not harder then the men do. I've got more to say, but for now I think this is enough to get a thread started.

 

 

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[Canucklehead]

^ What he said about less crowds and eyes watching on TV = less money to be had.

 

I 100% agree that they're phenomenal golfers. Got to see some of their skill in the Canadian Open when it came to Edmonton a few years ago. But without the crowds it's an uphill climb to get the same money.

 

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[Liberty Ball Markers]

If that 11.7 million isn't good enough, I'll be glad to provide an account number for to transfer it to so she can move on in life...

 

 

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[gaussman1]

They are amazing golfers. But being the best golfer in the world in and of itself is not actually worth any money. The only monetary value any of the athletes have is tied to the public's desire to watch them perform and therefore advertisers desires to pay for those performances, which is true of all other professional sports and entertainment options as well. So from that perspective I view LPGA players a bit like independent films. They can be great but will remain largely out of view unless select indivuals have crossover appeal to a wider mass audience. None of them are entitled to a dime, they are only entitled to what the audience is willing to pay.

 

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[BigtazzGolf]

The ladies are doing their part. I hope deals are brokered to get them more airtime. The golf channel treats them horrible as far as coverage. I'd rather watch them than some of the shows they air. Look at this up coming week. No live coverage till you get to watch the tail end of rounds 3 and 4 on the weekend. Sad!

The LPGA should strike a deal with another channel and get away from the golf channel

 

Tazz

Grip n Rip it

[josmi15]

Men or women, doesn't matter to me. When I'm not golfing, I'm watching golf. I'll flip between PGA and LPGA, it's actually my wife that's not a fan of LPGA.

 

A great shot is a great shot

 

 

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[PlaidJacket]

I tried to find the ad online without any luck. I doubt this photo is readable but that's the best I can provide at the moment.

 

 

crap... sorry about the rotation.

 

 

[cnosil]

There is a large disparity in what the different tours make.  Those at the top make pretty good money but if you look at the bottom of the weekly payout and the second tier tours (Symetra vs. Web) you will see a bigger disparity.  I doubt anything will be done about it because as others have said they don;t get the viewership or generate the same sales. 

[null]

It's about sponsors and ratings

 

LPGA doesn't get anywhere near the exposure and ratings that the PGA tour does. Therefore, the tournaments do not get the purses the men's tournaments do.

 

Therefore, the women who win don't get as much money

[mrsmith123]

Alright, so I don't want to enter broken record territory here but I'm gonna list my thoughts and approach to this situation. Maybe I can elaborate more on some of what's been stated so far:

 

1. The "gender earnings gap" in golf (and certain other sports) is a really difficult topic to argue because either side can be "right". This debate is the exact same as the abortion debate in that each side is arguing a different point (IE Mother's rights vs sanctity of life in general). Those in favor of "equal pay for equal work" (much like WNBA) say that men and women should have same prize purses, this opposed say show me how they're "equal".

 

The facts simply state that, unlike tennis (which I'll follow up with in a minute), professional golf is a totally different product for men and women. In no way are they the same exact the objective of least amount of strokes possible. Course is different, setup is different, process is different, ability is different, getting around the golf course is different, etc. Simply put, Dustin Johnson and Lydia Ko are not comparable in any way from a product standpoint. Rory McIlroy and Stacey Lewis are not comparable from a product standpoint.

 

Most events are stroke play and individual. Sponsors see more value in men's events because of ticket sales and TV contracts plain and simple. Also, with men on national TV coverage more their clothing and bag real estate expose sponsors more too.

 

Lastly, the big question is "what's the return on investment?". Obviously the answer lies in the $$$$ because of event prize purses. If I had a company that was asked to spend millions as a title sponsor, I want to make sure I'm gonna get more out of it then a tax write-off.

 

Now with all that said, I have tried to think of a way to improve things if people are really concerned about it:

1. Do like tennis does where majors have men and women compete at the same facility at the same time. Logistically this is easy and course setup would be no different other than an extra tee box. You would play them over a two week period instead of one to account for double the players. Men would play on Wed/Fri/Sun and Women on Tue/Thu/Sat. For each you could have singles and doubles competition options. And you split all the prize monies equally.

2. Have a few events each year that allow for men and women to compete together as a joint tour event. Start with a fall event and do a 4-day multi format mixed two person team event.

3. Most importantly, there needs to be more tournaments where actual matches are played (Masters is the only one not touched because of Bobby Jones's legacy and it is perfect as is).

 

It will never be a perfect system but there are some ideas to make it more interesting. Golf and tennis are totally different, but tennis at least does more to help women get prime coverage and better prize purses.

 

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[Miboy62]

The LPGA has come up with some more tournamentse the last couple of years, that's a plus.

They need to try and get there own TV deal done, and come up with selling commercial to sponsorship. They don't have to sell just golf stuff.

The lady's work just as hard as the guys do, plus they are going to have to work harder to get sponsors dollars.

It may take more sponsors, and more none golf iteams for lady's to get their.

[alfriday101]

The ladies are doing their part. I hope deals are brokered to get them more airtime. The golf channel treats them horrible as far as coverage. I'd rather watch them than some of the shows they air. Look at this up coming week. No live coverage till you get to watch the tail end of rounds 3 and 4 on the weekend. Sad!

The LPGA should strike a deal with another channel and get away from the golf channel

 

Tazz

Grip n Rip it

Stacy disagrees with you:

 

"Our games are pretty comparable, it's just the exposure. That's what our tour has to do, is get more exposure -- on TV, on network TV -- and over the last few years, we're getting there. The Golf Channel has really helped grow our product, showcasing who we are. But it's just changing people's minds: going from men's golf to watching women's golf."

 

From the article.  

[Rickp]

The skill level of the women of the LPGA is awesome. BUT this is a capitalistic society. If u don't draw the crowds or the TV viewers U don't get the advertising/marketing bucks or the big TV contracts.

 

 

 

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[null]

The skill level of the women of the LPGA is awesome. BUT this is a capitalistic society. If u don't draw the crowds or the TV viewers U don't get the advertising/marketing bucks or the big TV contracts.

 

 

 

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Yup, it really is that simple

[BigtazzGolf]

Stacy disagrees with you:

 

"Our games are pretty comparable, it's just the exposure. That's what our tour has to do, is get more exposure -- on TV, on network TV -- and over the last few years, we're getting there. The Golf Channel has really helped grow our product, showcasing who we are. But it's just changing people's minds: going from men's golf to watching women's golf."

 

From the article.

As a player, I see her side and agree. As a viewer, the coverage is not as good or close to equal time imo

 

Tazz

Grip n Rip it

[mrsmith123]

Stacy disagrees with you:

 

"Our games are pretty comparable, it's just the exposure. That's what our tour has to do, is get more exposure -- on TV, on network TV -- and over the last few years, we're getting there. The Golf Channel has really helped grow our product, showcasing who we are. But it's just changing people's minds: going from men's golf to watching women's golf."

 

From the article.

Can someone please explain to me how the women's and men's games are pretty comparable? This isn't tennis where they play the same size court.

 

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[Mr_Theoo]

Can someone please explain to me how the women's and men's games are pretty comparable? This isn't tennis where they play the same size court.

 

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No but they do play the same set of rules. Just like the WNBA

[mrsmith123]

No but they do play the same set of rules. Just like the WNBA

Yea but WNBA has smaller ball and shorter rim height.

 

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[Mr_Theoo]

Yea but WNBA has smaller ball and shorter rim height.

 

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Just a smaller ball. All basketball goals are 10 feet high

[Fireinthehole]

I will reiterate what others have said- they need a tv deal.

 

I remember the us women's national team mentioning something like this. They play on the same size field, same size soccer ball and same 90 minutes.

They have won more trophies, have a greater attendance at games. Hard to argue in that scenario that they shouldn't earn the same. And they can't quite get the shirt and bag sponsorships.

 

Tour players are somewhat like independent contractors though right? Not sure about their actual status

 

 

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[ridgewalker]

Sure, they probably deserve more. But audiences are more interested in watching the men.

Like Rhonda Rousey did in the UFC, I think it's possible for a female to be the most popular person in the sport. I'm just not sure they have it right now.

 

 

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[Crashtestdummy]

It is not about getting more exposure. People know about the LPGA, but just don't watch the LPGA as much. Not to take anything away from the pro LPGA players because they are phenomenal golfers. I really like watching the LPGA.

 

As some posters have said earlier in the thread, it is all about the ratings and sponsors. LPGA doesn't nearly get the ratings that the PGA does which means less money. However, in the modeling and fashion industries, women make way more than men do because they get way more ratings and sponsors. 

[RexS]

The girls will be getting my eyes on this weekend, heading out to Kingsmill on Sunday to watch them.

[Rickp]

The girls will be getting my eyes on this weekend, heading out to Kingsmill on Sunday to watch them.

The idea is they want your money and your eyes.

They need a better marketing plan for the $ part.

 

 

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[revkev]

She's correct about the more eyeballs. Prize money is commensurate with TV viewership along with the willingness of sponsors to pony up.

 

Every one here knows that I think highly of the LPGA and it's players but let's face it. If you took a guy off the web.com he'd clean house on the LPGA Tour and yet he gets paid less. Because fewer people watch his tour.

 

It's about the eyeballs.

 

 

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[jayjay0808]

I'm with everyone here. If they could make it so that the revenue generated for the female game matches the male game then of course the payouts should be the same. However they are not sadly. And close to 12 million on course earnings is pretty solid 

[TheWahoo]

I can only restate what others have said, its follow the money from fan interest and TV.   The USA is where the money is.  The purses at the European tour are no where near those of the US tour.     The operative words being US Tour.    I'm not sure that the LPGA is embraced as a domestic entity and product.   In order to grow the LPGA had to become somewhat of a international entity.   That has not enhanced its American popularity.   If the LPGA wants to gain in popularity and therefore more money, it will need more American players and more American winners.  The American ladies will need to dominate.    The LPGA could really use an American female, Tiger Woods.   Look what Tiger did for the men's purses.

[Rickp]

Saw the movie/documentary "The Founders" today. It follows the 13 original members of the LPGA from its start to present day.

Stacey Lewis is one of the executive producers. It is well done with some great interesting interviews with the few remaining women still living.

Good, informative viewing.

 

Rick

 

 

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[tony@CIC]

Saw the movie/documentary "The Founders" today. It follows the 13 original members of the LPGA from its start to present day.

Stacey Lewis is one of the executive producers. It is well done with some great interesting interviews with the few remaining women still living.

Good, informative viewing.

 

Rick

 

 

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Just curious where did you see it?

 

 

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