Marketing that makes no sense

[GolfSpy MPR]

New video out today from TaylorMade, advertising their revised Project [a]:

 

 

Now, I play the Project [a], and have for the past two seasons. I like it for two major reasons: it feels soft, especially on short game shots and putts, and it's cheap (especially buying used on eBay).

 

But this video is silly. Day and DJ have a ball-spinning contest, which is one of the main selling points of the Project [a]: that it enables amateurs to hit spinnier short-game shots.

 

Here's the kicker: while they're hitting, DJ makes the point that most amateurs miss the green short. That's absolutely the case, and so raises the question: if amateurs are missing short, what help is it to play a ball that spins back even shorter?

 

He tries to cover what he's just said by saying that they miss short because the ball doesn't stay in the air because they're not getting enough spin. That might be the case with driver; it is almost certainly not the case with irons. In general, less spin is going to promote distance, and TM itself is doing all that it can to sell irons that have very low spin.

 

Anyway, maybe I just should have added this to the rant thread. But having learned a little bit about the physics of golf (not claiming expert status here), the marketing of golf is getting increasingly irksome.

[MaxEntropy]

It's certainly not limited to golf balls....

 

My personal pet peeve is the Dove ads where they apply lotion to rose petals and expose to heat and show how well the one treated with Dove resists drying. From my perspective, if my skin were chemically the same as a rose petal, they might have a point. I hate logical fallacies.

[revkev]

Because Titleist has such a stranglehold on the number one spot ball ads seemingly stop at nothing. They are constantly full of BS.

 

Kudos to Titleist for not jumping on that train.

 

IMO Srixon was the worst with their ridiculous commercial against pro line balls because they spin too much. But anyone who knows about golf knows that there is very little differences in spin between ball types off the driver - no difference really between the proline and midline balls.

 

I've already mentioned my agitation at Callaway for its insulting ball that changes the ball ADs.

 

The chrome soft is an outstanding ball at a very good price point. Market that and not a fairy tale dream sequence.

 

I know that others have done the math on distance yardage claims over the past few decades and all of us should be hitting it 340 by now.

 

However we should not that Barbajo has posted some wonderful ads from the 50's and 60's, guess what they claimed?

 

I wish that I could hit it as far as Ben Hogan too.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[null]

Spin also creates lift, and lift creates more carry.

 

But yes, marketing from basically all OEMS geared towards the average consumer is dumbed down and misleading. Remember when Patrick Reed was in callaway ad hitting the big Bertha irons 2 clubs longer (even though they were basically loft jacked 2 clubs longer and no callaway pro ever gamed the Bertha irons)

 

Trying to police the oems for every misleading ad they have is a pointless battle. That's why it's great to have a company like MGS to just give us the facts

[MaxEntropy]

 

Kudos to Titleist for not jumping on that train.

 

 

Do you not consider the comparison of Tour Soft to actual tour-quality balls a bit disingenuous?

[GolfSpy MPR]

Spin also creates lift, and lift creates more carry.

 

I definitely concede this point on the driver: at slower balls speeds, more spin is needed just to keep the ball in the air.

 

But is there evidence that this is an issue with iron shots (presumably, the relevant factor in a discussion of getting the ball to the green)? Are low-speed amateurs hitting knuckleballs with their 7-irons? I do understand that amateur iron shots spin less than better players, because (most often) a higher swing speed and better contact will produce higher spin numbers.

 

I've definitely heard the argument that amateurs need more spin on iron shots for stopping power, but I've not heard the argument for spin on iron shots for greater carry. I'm certainly open to correction here. Is there a table like the TrackMan launch optimizer for irons?

[null]

I definitely concede this point on the driver: at slower balls speeds, more spin is needed just to keep the ball in the air.

 

But is there evidence that this is an issue with iron shots (presumably, the relevant factor in a discussion of getting the ball to the green)? Are low-speed amateurs hitting knuckleballs with their 7-irons? I do understand that amateur iron shots spin less than better players, because (most often) a higher swing speed and better contact will produce higher spin numbers.

 

I've definitely heard the argument that amateurs need more spin on iron shots for stopping power, but I've not heard the argument for spin on iron shots for greater carry. I'm certainly open to correction here. Is there a table like the TrackMan launch optimizer for irons?

It's the case all the way through the bag. Spin creates lift. It's called The Magnus Effect.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_effect

 

The curved path of a golf ball known as slice or hookis due largely to the ball's spinning motion (about its vertical axis) and the Magnus effect, causing a horizontal force that moves the ball from a straight line in its trajectory.[18]:§ 4.5 Backspin (upper surface rotating backwards from the direction of movement) on a golf ball causes a vertical force that counteracts the force of gravity slightly, and enables the ball to remain airborne a little longer than it would were the ball not spinning: this allows the ball to travel farther than a ball not spinning about its horizontal axis

[null]

Visual

[GolfSpy MPR]

It's the case all the way through the bag. Spin creates lift. It's called The Magnus Effect.

 

The basic physics of it is clear, and I've got no argument with you there. But let me throw out a chart like this:

 

 

So let's assume we've got an amateur male golfer who's swinging his 7 iron around 75mph, but isn't creating nearly the crisp contact of the LPGA pro. His ball is spinning at (maybe) 4,000-5,000rpms. Anyone have any way of calculating what that's doing to his carry? My hunch is that it might actually increase his carry distance (like a flier lie), but that it's also going to kill his stopping power on the other end.

[null]

The basic physics of it is clear, and I've got no argument with you there. But let me throw out a chart like this:

 

 

So let's assume we've got an amateur male golfer who's swinging his 7 iron around 75mph, but isn't creating nearly the crisp contact of the LPGA pro. His ball is spinning at (maybe) 4,000-5,000rpms. Anyone have any way of calculating what that's doing to his carry? My hunch is that it might actually increase his carry distance (like a flier lie), but that it's also going to kill his stopping power on the other end.

 

 

Oh there is definitely a law of diminishing returns associated with spin.  Just look at the chart from Bridgestone I posted above.  Too much spin will create a loss of carry distance, for sure.  And you're absolutely right about getting more distance under some conditions.  It is why during a fitting it is so important to look at all parameters such as ball speed,  launch angle, spin, carry distance and angle of descent.  All three of those factors play a part into to how far a shot is going to carry as well as how much a ball will release once it hits the ground

[null]

The problem with your average OEM marketing is that everything is oversimplified to either market towards 1) distance and 2) back spin around the greens.  You have to remember that 99% of the golfing population doesnt read up and educate themselves like the forum golfer, so this marketing isn't aimed at us. 

 

And this isn't just a golf problem - it is a consumer problem.  People are lazy and don't do their due diligence to educate themselves and it is the companies' jobs to sell as much product as possible, not educate the consumer

[RickyBobby_PR]

Oh there is definitely a law of diminishing returns associated with spin. Just look at the chart from Bridgestone I posted above. Too much spin will create a loss of carry distance, for sure. And you're absolutely right about getting more distance under some conditions. It is why during a fitting it is so important to look at all parameters such as ball speed, launch angle, spin, carry distance and angle of descent. All three of those factors play a part into to how far a shot is going to carry as well as how much a ball will release once it hits the ground

Good points. So many golfers look at high spin as a bad thing based on past marketing or what they see from pros and don't understand that spin can be a friend as much as an enemy.

[Shankster]

All I will say is, I was a marketing major in college... I hate marketing, you guys are making great points.

[GolfSpy MPR]

Oh there is definitely a law of diminishing returns associated with spin.  Just look at the chart from Bridgestone I posted above.  Too much spin will create a loss of carry distance, for sure.  And you're absolutely right about getting more distance under some conditions.  It is why during a fitting it is so important to look at all parameters such as ball speed,  launch angle, spin, carry distance and angle of descent.  All three of those factors play a part into to how far a shot is going to carry as well as how much a ball will release once it hits the ground

 

Worth saying: I'm grateful for a place like this where we can have semi-technical, golf-nerd discussions, but do so with evenhandedness. Great comments and conversation jlukes.

[yungkory]

Do you not consider the comparison of Tour Soft to actual tour-quality balls a bit disingenuous?

0 distance chrome softs!

 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[null]

Worth saying: I'm grateful for a place like this where we can have semi-technical, golf-nerd discussions, but do so with evenhandedness. Great comments and conversation jlukes.

Always love talking shop with you.

[00sportsman]

All I will say is, I was a marketing major in college... I hate marketing, you guys are making great points.

I wasn't a marketing major in college, but this is exactly what I returned to this thread to say.  I hate marketing in general and never look for logic in it.

[MaxEntropy]

0 distance chrome softs!

 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

Lol! Don't forget the Titleist has ALL the feels.

[AH1980MN]

They could have turned this into a PSA for golfers. If we tend to miss short and roll the ball up to or off the green, choose a spinnier ball AND MORE CLUB! If we could ditch our egos for a minute we'd all play better. (The above of course doesn't apply to us MGS'ers, as we all know this already, right?)