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I purchased an ER2 based on Adam Beach's rant and my personal putting struggles. Honestly I have never hit a putter that is so pure. It rolls the ball so well. It doesn't hop and skip but rolls right off the face. I have made adjustment to my aiming, which I found was lacking practicing on my puttout. I can now see down the line and start the ball where I want giving me a better opportunity to sink putts. The purity off the roll and aiming have also allowed me to believe I can make putts and has given me better distance control.

Did the tech help? I believe it has definitely helped. It isn't magic, but it works.

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For those in the feel is the most important thing category,  do you believe you are the best putter you could possibly be?   If you don't make every putt then there is room for some improvement.  Give

Don't find your responses argumentative at all. I think the answer really lies within the personality of the golfer. You would like a player that is admittedly feel based. To you mechanics or techno

I don't think new putters make a big difference. You have Jordan using an old SC. Then you have guys who swear by the original PING Anser. When you find the right putter, you keep it.   Sent from my

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No matter which posture , grip method, stance etc...  a player uses, and many different styles have been proven to work well, the one common denominator I have observed , from players with a consistently good putting game, is a steady-stable head from their address through impact with the ball. Here is a video featuring Ben Crenshaw and Loren Roberts, two players known for their excellent putting:

 

 

 

In that video Loren Roberts doesn't keep his head still,  but lets say that is one of the keys.  You indicated it is a common thing that you observed with great putters.  You also indicated there is more that just keeping you head still, setup and how you hold the clubs doesn't matter and it isn't fitting or technology.   What is the other parts of technique that makes someone a good putter?  Just asking you to expand on your statements and how you proved out your conclusions.   I agree with you that technology isn't everything,  i just believe that even with good technique a person can putter better with a properly fit putter.   

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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As I have written to you a couple of times now, my only "conclusion" is an observation that consistently good putters maintain a steady/stable head from their address position through impact with the ball. 

Regarding equipment, whether it is for putting or any other golf shot, I believe it's importance (to playing good shots or shooting low scores), is greatly overrated.

For example, have a look at the equipment played 70 years ago by Ben Hogan, Byron Nelson, Sam Snead etc.... Those guys and other early Tour pros were able to shoot par or better with clubs and balls that today would be considered extremely unforgiving.... And the average score for the membership at most country clubs is the same today as it was 50 years ago.

And it's not uncommon today for an amateur player to go on vacation and strike just as good or better shots with a rental set than the custom fitted set he plays at home.

Also, amateur clubs and men's groups sometimes have "6-club" events where 90% of the field ends up shooting the same 18 hole score as they do when playing out of their usual 14 club bag.

So, I believe that (compared to the importance of good effective technique), golf equipment is greatly overrated. I recognize advertising/promoting/selling equipment and fitting services is a business. I understand that  people who play golf are eager customers for new products and services, myself included.

I like buying new stuff as much as the next guy, and I do so often, because it's fun to play new clubs. But I don't believe new equipment, fitted or not, actually makes a significant difference towards lower scoring.

 

Thanks for clarifying your point.  I think this provides a much better explanation on why you believe there isn't any difference in play with new or old equipment.  Ultimately, you believe that a persons natural abilities will adapt to any equipment differences.    I think this is true to a point and that the difference start to show up when the player is under pressure to perform   I would suggest you watch some of the TXG videos on youtube where they show how some aspects of equipment can impact the results.  The changes may will not work magic but you can improve the chances that you can score better.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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I'd say after buying A LOT A LOT of different Putters I came to realize I don't follow the trends I use what works for me , can't fix something that is not broken

 

Sent from my STV100-2 using Tapatalk

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MIZUNO MX 23 (3-PW)

CLEVELAND CG15 ZipGroove Wedges

TOMMY ARMOUR IMPACT SERIES NO.1 PUTTER

 

ALWAYS LOOKING TO TRADE OR BUY CLUBS ESPECIALLY PUTTERS!!

 

Email - Briranney927@gmail.com or private message me anytime

 

MY GOLF SPY #1 FORUM

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But if you need a new grip definitely , I have ocd about my grips ha always buy one everything month month and a half

 

Sent from my STV100-2 using Tapatalk

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MIZUNO MX 23 (3-PW)

CLEVELAND CG15 ZipGroove Wedges

TOMMY ARMOUR IMPACT SERIES NO.1 PUTTER

 

ALWAYS LOOKING TO TRADE OR BUY CLUBS ESPECIALLY PUTTERS!!

 

Email - Briranney927@gmail.com or private message me anytime

 

MY GOLF SPY #1 FORUM

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As I think about it some, I believe it was about 25 years ago that graphite shafts became prevalent for drivers. This was about the time that Callaway introduced its legendary Big Bertha driver(before that metal woods were essentially the same size as the wooden woods they replaced, and steel was still most common).

Anyway, Callaway led the way with both over sized metal wood heads and use of graphite shafts as stock offerings. Soon every equipment company followed Callaway's path. This led to club repair shops and graphite shaft manufacturers working together to sell consumers the idea that  "their stock shaft was junk and should be replaced with a more expensive aftermarket shaft".

Next came launch monitors, which gave birth to the then nascent business of "fitting". And as the years have passed by equipment company's, instructors, repair-assembly shops are using launch monitors , simulators etc... to sell the concept of fit together with new equipment offerings.For someone interested in golf it's fun, and interesting, but I think also has maybe created the illusion that it's possible to buy a game.

The YouTube videos are entertaining, but they remind me of the old "driving range player" adage. In other words, striking good shots on a range or simulator is one thing, but actually playing golf to shoot a low score is another. My favorite YouTube golf celebrity is Mark Crossfield, because he has the courage to once and awhile put up a video of him playing a course, from the rough, missing fairways and greens, three putting etc... en route to shooting 80. Those videos of his are a different show from the equipment review driving range launch monitor presentations.  I respect Crossfield for stepping off the range, away from the simulator, and actually showing some realistic,  on course shots.

 

I 100% agree with you that you actually have to get on the course and hit shots.  I don't believe in using launch monitors chase particular numbers,  I support the approach of finding out what works best for you and your swing.  I guess we are in completely different camps when it comes to technology and equipment;  you fall into the anything within reason will be just fine for a player and I believe that while that perspective is true ( I have hit enough clubs with stock configuration to confirm) that you can use technology to find what equipment will provide you with the better results for your swing.  That is why I suggested TXG, they are providing education on how changes in equipment will or won't change a clubs performance.  Watching videos of club reviews or someone like Crossfield do absolutely nothing for me.  

 

Thanks for providing your perspective.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Actually, handicaps have dropped 1.9 shots for men over the last 25 years. 3.6 shots for women. That's not nothing.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/a-closer-look-at-handicap-data-shows-just-how-much-golfers-have-improved-in-recent-years

 

It will be interesting to see if the F8s will help me play better. Once I figure out how far I hit these things, they will. I'm hitting shorter, easier to control clubs for approach shots. Now, I'm just one data point, but as long as I get better with new clubs, I'm happy.

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (16*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
2 Iron - :mizuno-small: FliHi (18*) - Recoil 760 ( S )
4i - GW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
SW - LW - :cobra-small: F8 - N.S. Pro Modus3 Tour105 ( S )
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Black)
Ball -  :srixon-small: Z-Star XV
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
Facebook - mike.eovino
 

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  • 5 weeks later...

It depends on the player. If you are more of a "feel" player and you lose confidence if the putter doesn't "feel" good then you will miss more putts. If you care more about the numbers then if you know the numbers are good you will be confident. A confident putter is a better putter.

Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff

Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff

Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff

Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff

Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff

Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock

 

 

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My biggest questions on this are 1) How much proof do they have that their tech works with real players? 2) if it does work then why do some of the most notable tour players still use 20 year old putters? 3) Would having the same putter with different face groove patterns and inserts be able to help your players depending on the course conditions they play in?

 

I understand where you are coming from and until last week I would have said it was all a bunch of BS designed to sell putters. I have been lusting in my heart for a Scotty Cameron Newport 1.5 Oil Can Finish for at least 10 years. I play that in the Studio Select German Stainless Steel, but have an Oil Can Finish Big Sur that I modified maybe 15 years ago that I like the way the ball feels coming off that face better than the GSS. I have better distance control with the Big Sur but make more putts outside of 5' with the Newport. 

 

Then last week I went to the PGA Super Store and gave myself a putter fitting. I had seen several plumber neck putters that fit what I was looking for but have never played one. I fell in love with the 2018 Scotty Newport 2. I couldn't miss with that putter, and the feel was even better than the soft face Big Sur.

 

I ordered one and will be getting one of these next week. I will be doing a review on it in a couple of weeks, and will address your questions then after I get some rounds played with it.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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The main thing I wanted to talk about here (and I'm sure I have more questions than answers) is face technology on putters.

 

Most of the big name club manufacturers come out with a slew of putters every year featuring their newest groove and insert tech that is supposed to help the player roll a putt easier and with more consistency then ever.

 

My biggest questions on this are 1) How much proof do they have that their tech works with real players? 2) if it does work then why do some of the most notable tour players still use 20 year old putters? 3) Would having the same putter with different face groove patterns and inserts be able to help your players depending on the course conditions they play in?

 

Feel free to leave your opinions below, I would love to hear what everyone has to say.

 

P.S if I'm wrong, feel free to tell me

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

It's simple, the answer is one for all your questions - it's just Marketing and that's it! In order to sell a new one!)

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Is it just marketing? Ping Ketsch, MLA, EvnRolll? I don't think those are just marketing, but actual working tech. But what they are not is magic

I agree that they aren't magic, but I also believe that it is mostly marketing. When I go to the golf shop, I try out all of the putters usually, the cheap and the expensive. I don't see much of a difference in performance. Looks - yes. Feel - sometimes. But performance - not at all. There is a difference in style of putter that seems to matter. Visual things matter in my putting performance. But cost of the putter seems irrelevant.

 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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I agree that they aren't magic, but I also believe that it is mostly marketing. When I go to the golf shop, I try out all of the putters usually, the cheap and the expensive. I don't see much of a difference in performance. Looks - yes. Feel - sometimes. But performance - not at all. There is a difference in style of putter that seems to matter. Visual things matter in my putting performance. But cost of the putter seems irrelevant.

 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

If your putting stroke is pretty ingrained you won't see much of a difference other than speed off the face. If you have a tendency to mishit the ball you will start tosee differences in distance control. There are other subtleties that would show up on devices like a puttlab as well.

 

How are you measuring performance?

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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I have an evenroll ER2, I feel like the ball is more consistent off the face and more likely to go where I intended to hit it. I believe I am making more of my longer puts with it than I did in the past. But it does not fix my fundamentals, like misreading the break of the green or getting the pace of the ball wrong. So while I practice long putting I still am overhitting or underhitting too many longer puts especially on challenging greens where there is quite a bit of slope.

 

I also get confused on tricky slopes and read them the wrong way. I had a two foot birdie put on Sunday and when I read the put I thought it broke slightly left, so being critical I checked the golf logic app which showed the slope slightly right. I followed the app the ball broke right a little and I made the put. If I played how I read it I would have missed it two inches the other way.

 

But now and then I make a critical 6 foot to 20 foot put. That was rare for me in the past. I pretty much had to be within 4 feet to think I had a shot of making a put.

Driver Taylor Made M2 Ping G 3 wood 14.5 loftPing G hybrid 19Hogan Radial 3-PW(forged circa 1989)Evnroll ER2, Golf bag, old and worn out circa 1989

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  • 1 month later...

I have an old Odyssey 9 white Hot customized with black shaft and Salty grip. I did love it, really did.

I listened to Adam's rant about putter tech and researched, searched and found an EvnRoll ER2 and bought it. It is really a departure. Seems to roll itself and once I became adjusted to the weight has been a great addition to my game. It's not magic, not forged by the gods, but it is better from all distances.

I am skeptical about tech most of the time. This time it has worked for me. It really has helped me putt better.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

out with the old.... my Mizuno MX500 seems to have found the great retirement. Replaced by a Mizzy ST180. I will get a chance to swing it tomorrow. Can hardly wait.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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  • 1 year later...

I own a Nike Method 005 mallet with a 303 precision milled bloc  ,but my gamer is a old Daiwa Probalance 8511 blade,

Now here some pics of few other models ,

Your thought on them are welcome.. 

A Goliath 3 balls,

Mizuno blade 

Taylormade Tc1 

Daiwa 

IMG_20190828_134124.jpg

IMG_20190826_221002.jpg

IMG_20190806_125839.jpg

IMG_20190802_144145.jpg

IMG_20190806_125701.jpg

IMG_20190719_174722.jpg

IMG_20190806_125906.jpg

IMG_20190704_200347.jpg

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On 8/31/2019 at 4:46 PM, M.Duchesne said:

I own a Nike Method 005 mallet with a 303 precision milled bloc  ,but my gamer is a old Daiwa Probalance 8511 blade,

Now here some pics of few other models ,

Your thought on them are welcome.. 

A Goliath 3 balls,

Mizuno blade 

Taylormade Tc1 

Daiwa 

IMG_20190828_134124.jpg

IMG_20190826_221002.jpg

IMG_20190806_125839.jpg

IMG_20190802_144145.jpg

IMG_20190806_125701.jpg

IMG_20190719_174722.jpg

IMG_20190806_125906.jpg

IMG_20190704_200347.jpg

Love those old classic putters!  Is your gamer primarily the Nike or do you rotate between them all ?

 

MDGolfHacker

What's In This Lefty's Bag?

Driver: :cobra-small: F8 9.5° Project X Even Flow Blue 65g shaft 

Fairway Woods: :cobra-small: F8 3W Project X Even Flow Blue 75g shaft

Fairway Woods: :cobra-small: F8 5W Project X Even Flow Blue 75g shaft

Hybrid: :titelist-small: 816H2 19°

Irons: :mizuno-small: MP-20 SEL Project X 5.5 shafts 5-PW

           :mizuno-small: MP-20 HMB Project X 5.5 shaft 4 Iron

Wedge: :cleveland-small: Tour Satin RTX 4 Wedges in 52° and 56° 2 Dot

Putter: :nevercompromise-small: Gray Matter TDP 2.2 32.75"

Bag: :1590477705_SunMountain: Three 5

Ball:  :srixon-small: Z*Star

RangeFinder:918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro

Social Media:

Facebook:   md golfhacker
Twitter:        @mdgolfhacker
Instagram:   mdgolfhacker

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  • 4 weeks later...

On fast green with a slight arc path the method is of no use for me ,can't control slope with curved puts reading.

In other hand I use the pro balance  Daiwa same lenght for speed control and a better reading.

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This to say my gamer is.....roll drums.....This old Daiwa Toe balance. Swan neck is not bothering my up hill view at address.

I also got a NOS Ping Answer 3 slight Arc toe balance still the closest .It is a very good feel but at 36" it is a little to long for me from short put aiming at the hole . This being said ,I have to admit that these Pings are of very good feel for those who like to ear the click of the ball..

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