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A quick post about my goals for my full swing this winter: I need more rotation. The extent of my lack of rotation really hit me looking at @jlukes most recent lesson video. Also, note the contrast at impact between the best swing I see on a regular basis and my own swing:

MDOL19SevgbR4Ry9OxheN-9Zrb_QJeoe6dtYWJfx

My hips have opened a tiny bit at impact, but my shoulders might as well be in their setup position. By contrast, Kirke's swing approach DJ levels of openness at impact:

Image result for dustin johnson impact

What am I hoping to accomplish with this change? I think that's always an important question, because I know I'm susceptible to the temptation to work on cosmetic aspects of my swing just for cosmetic reasons. But my goal is that by pursuing a more rotation-based (rather than arms and hands-based) swing, I'll see more consistent dispersion patterns from better clubface control. I'd also like to see crisper impact; arms/hands swings are tremendously timing based, and I suspect that my issue when my iron play is awry (fat shots) is a consequence of this.

How am I going to work on this? In addition to jlukes's video, what opened my eyes to my lack of rotation were my initial swings with the DST Compressor. Because it forces your hands to lead through impact, the stalled out upper body makes that position feel very awkward. I also just picked up a Power Package golf trainer for a good price on eBay (yes, I have a training aid addition). From all that I've seen, it looks like a good aid for helping a person feel the need for rotation. I know @dhartmann34 has a thread about the Power Package on the forums; I'd definitely be interested in hearing an update from him on his evaluation of it.

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A quick post about my goals for my full swing this winter: I need more rotation. The extent of my lack of rotation really hit me looking at [mention=56939]jlukes[/mention] most recent lesson video. Also, note the contrast at impact between the best swing I see on a regular basis and my own swing:
MDOL19SevgbR4Ry9OxheN-9Zrb_QJeoe6dtYWJfxIr9ySjoxCdNbLoQEV9CP-IdcfDKtWl5LsPOh3Y9qIoBG71w5A07EXDRxbSgRApScd2RouVghDHCw2o8WBIx_Djh-2J3wREiYI-NxpV3QYf_8jmRwnMI9WxEXBn1oew0uDfH_r7UjDAqUgKBrnuU7YSMQKqv1HFjspHO0B_sHKtIgbIjly_6enGuXHYodxD38GdXXK5AGnrpafwZs70Is1I3n8fkJYTDZo1d2XUL0kasVwsuD3LzBTEZaFtAELqf3pqwqwK80rB-wD13JOs0xTFSuiamIhaxSeNsnL38nx1AlhG1qWrJDwINSHLsii3A0w5jsUcjkK0kHDpexOrRZKlvMO_msr_vZDNKJM1ZkxTIGR63BvY_e47b5WDxDYXHmXPl1T0GxtnHe9jl4tpHswN59tFwiB8CMPBvEXKA2XHOAb5J1nxkB0ABMlhK66E5pBAnsRUuhif8zE3vpNecmzTNshXcF702qd8f6oOIbOlqaVv4CUeprifhlHiz-_iqVwsQrX4D_vaMZ7DL2qyNaWj0wIDYIxbbYam2nS9-ozt9U5h5x81C8DZC5z74lmUUJZqgi1ZQmuPR6VcoxwQl1BnetvBnayV5huK2n-KFgwclVyPxhRkqe99A3bB2YCCew2oadoL5uaGWC13hO=w2048-h1433-no
My hips have opened a tiny bit at impact, but my shoulders might as well be in their setup position. By contrast, Kirke's approach DJ levels of openness at impact:
MeandMyGolfDustinJohnson-1000x600.jpg
What am I hoping to accomplish with this change? I think that's always an important question, because I know I'm susceptible to the temptation to work on cosmetic aspects of my swing just for cosmetic reasons. But my goal is that by pursuing a more rotation-based (rather than arms and hands-based) swing, I'll see more consistent dispersion patterns from better clubface control. I'd also like to see crisper impact; arms/hands swings are tremendously timing based, and I suspect that my issue when my iron play is awry (fat shots) is a consequence of this.
How am I going to work on this? In addition to jlukes's video, what opened my eyes to my lack of rotation were my initial swings with the DST Compressor. Because it forces your hands to lead through impact, the stalled out upper body makes that position feel very awkward. I also just picked up a Power Package golf trainer for a good price on eBay (yes, I have a training aid addition). From all that I've seen, it looks like a good aid for helping a person feel the need for rotation. I know [mention=67453]dhartmann34[/mention] has a thread about the Power Package on the forums; I'd definitely be interested in hearing an update from him on his evaluation of it.
In regards to the Power Package... I love it. If you make the right moves, it's fantastic. But it is hard to get used to at first. The urge to want to be good and hit solid shots right off the bat and within the first month, is hard to break. If you can't deal with going through the process of bad before the success and good comes, it will be difficult to use.

I will admit that due to a baby, consistent Seattle like almost daiky rain here in the Midwest this year, and starting a business, my practice regimen has been lacking a lot this year. I've got to get back to the PP for sure. Once I can move those kids toys in the living room I'll be golden... Guess I'm going out to the garage.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

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11 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

A quick post about my goals for my full swing this winter: I need more rotation. The extent of my lack of rotation really hit me looking at @jlukes most recent lesson video. Also, note the contrast at impact between the best swing I see on a regular basis and my own swing:

MDOL19SevgbR4Ry9OxheN-9Zrb_QJeoe6dtYWJfx

My hips have opened a tiny bit at impact, but my shoulders might as well be in their setup position. By contrast, Kirke's approach DJ levels of openness at impact:

Image result for dustin johnson impact

What am I hoping to accomplish with this change? I think that's always an important question, because I know I'm susceptible to the temptation to work on cosmetic aspects of my swing just for cosmetic reasons. But my goal is that by pursuing a more rotation-based (rather than arms and hands-based) swing, I'll see more consistent dispersion patterns from better clubface control. I'd also like to see crisper impact; arms/hands swings are tremendously timing based, and I suspect that my issue when my iron play is awry (fat shots) is a consequence of this.

How am I going to work on this? In addition to jlukes's video, what opened my eyes to my lack of rotation were my initial swings with the DST Compressor. Because it forces your hands to lead through impact, the stalled out upper body makes that position feel very awkward. I also just picked up a Power Package golf trainer for a good price on eBay (yes, I have a training aid addition). From all that I've seen, it looks like a good aid for helping a person feel the need for rotation. I know @dhartmann34 has a thread about the Power Package on the forums; I'd definitely be interested in hearing an update from him on his evaluation of it.

This reminds me of a section from Zen Golf(I think?).  The writer had many photos of swings from his student with a ball.  Most students weren't happy with what they saw.  Then he had them throw a club as far out on the range as they could.  And the videos revealed swings resembling that screenshot of DJ above.  To throw that club (forwards!) a good distance, the body rotation becomes much more natural than when swinging at a ball.

Obviously not a drill for the garage, raised rafters or not!

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2 hours ago, romeopapazulu said:

This reminds me of a section from Zen Golf(I think?).  The writer had many photos of swings from his student with a ball.  Most students weren't happy with what they saw.  Then he had them throw a club as far out on the range as they could.  And the videos revealed swings resembling that screenshot of DJ above.  To throw that club (forwards!) a good distance, the body rotation becomes much more natural than when swinging at a ball.

Obviously not a drill for the garage, raised rafters or not!

I actually played a number of rounds this year with that being my primary swing thought. Here's what's interesting: I've taken some video of myself making practice swings without a ball, and my shoulders open up a decent amount through the impact zone. For instance:

snapshot_20191024_114904.jpg

But put a ball there, and in comes the early extension/rotation stall/hands-arms catch-up move!

I know I can make this move when swinging. I'm hoping that working with these aids will help me transfer that movement to actual swings with a ball.

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1 hour ago, romeopapazulu said:

This reminds me of a section from Zen Golf(I think?).  The writer had many photos of swings from his student with a ball.  Most students weren't happy with what they saw.  Then he had them throw a club as far out on the range as they could.  And the videos revealed swings resembling that screenshot of DJ above.  To throw that club (forwards!) a good distance, the body rotation becomes much more natural than when swinging at a ball.

Obviously not a drill for the garage, raised rafters or not!

You’re referring to a Fred Shoemaker drill from “Extraordinary Golf: The Art of the Possible” - a personal favorite that I recommend to everyone.

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4 minutes ago, downlowkey said:

You’re referring to a Fred Shoemaker drill from “Extraordinary Golf: The Art of the Possible” - a personal favorite that I recommend to everyone.

Thanks!  That was a long time ago and a borrowed book, so the name escaped me.  Looks like I can pick up my own copy for one hard earned dollar on amazon!

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3 minutes ago, romeopapazulu said:

Thanks!  That was a long time ago and a borrowed book, so the name escaped me.  Looks like I can pick up my own copy for one hard earned dollar on amazon!

Anytime muchacho! My copy has been leant out many times and it has been eye opening for all my pals. Beyond mechanics, Shoemaker delves into the unique effect that ego has on the golf swing - a terrifying subject that everyone must eventually face on the path to extraordinary. Images of the club throw drill are a wonderful illustration of potential physical motion -vs- the limitations of a result oriented thought process.

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4 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

snapshot_20191024_114904.jpg

 

Wow, what a perfect indoor place to practice your swing! Lay down a few strips of wide masking tape (so you don't damage the carpet) and you have a great place to practice with foam balls all winter.

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Just above freezing in the garage. Working hard this winter to build a swing on rotation rather than flipping. This is a work in progress:

 

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Something that just dawned on me, watching the video above: my setup position is very unorthodox. I bend a lot at the knees, with the result that my rear end is way outside my feet:

snapshot_20191109_184455.jpg

Why does this matter? Again, my goal is to develop a rotation-based swing, and tone down the early extension/flipping recovery swing. Because my hips start so deep, I don't think there's a possible way to maintain that depth. I also doubt there's any possibility of squatting in the swing to use ground forces, because there's no room to squat.

Finally, given that position, there's virtually no room for my hands to come into impact without raising pretty significantly.

In the next couple of days, I'm going to experiment with a setup that gets my center of mass more over my feet. I noticed in @edingc's thread on his off-season progress his observation about standing too close to the ball. I don't think I'm likely to actually increase my distance from the ball, but by straightening my legs and bending more from the hips, I suspect I'll feel a great deal further from the ball.

I'm intrigued.

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I don’t know if that is the fix our even if what I am about to type is an issue however it does appear that you are moving towards the ball in the downswing. Your weight seems to be really on your heels at address so maybe it is all connected. The effect is usually easily discernible, finding the cause is the difficult part. I will say that without a doubt that move looks much better than a year ago.

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10 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

In the next couple of days, I'm going to experiment with a setup that gets my center of mass more over my feet. I noticed in @edingc's thread on his off-season progress his observation about standing too close to the ball. I don't think I'm likely to actually increase my distance from the ball, but by straightening my legs and bending more from the hips, I suspect I'll feel a great deal further from the ball.

I'll be curious to see the changes! Your stance reminds me a lot of Keegan Bradley, as is. 

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On 11/9/2019 at 9:42 PM, THEZIPR23 said:

I don’t know if that is the fix our even if what I am about to type is an issue however it does appear that you are moving towards the ball in the downswing. Your weight seems to be really on your heels at address so maybe it is all connected. The effect is usually easily discernible, finding the cause is the difficult part. I will say that without a doubt that move looks much better than a year ago.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm inclined to think that the two issues are related for me. I'm hoping to hit some balls in the garage this afternoon and get some video to confirm. Here's my suspicion: the crouched setup position means my hips are already about as deep as they can go.

The Keegan comp suggested by @edingc is interesting. Here's a great super slo mo of Keegan's swing:

Camera angles can be tricky, but I think I might start even deeper than he does.

Let me do my admittedly very amateur Peter Kostis Konica Minolta analysis, using Justin Thomas as a comp. Keegan sets up his rear end quite deep behind he heals, with a significant knee bend. By contrast, JT has a more "orthodox" setup, with a slight knee bend but with his center of mass more in obviously within his feet:

keegan-thomas-address.jpg

Now, think about this: if your knees are bent significantly, it is difficult to straighten your leg without moving your hips toward the ball. This is why, @THEZIPR23, I think my thrust toward the ball is, in part, related to my setup. So note that at the top of his backswing, Keegan has retained almost all of his initial knee bend. At least as I see it, this slightly restricts his hip turn, compared to JT. Just try it: squat at the knee and then tree to rotate your hips, versus rotating your hips while allowing the leg to straighten. Because I'm no elite athlete, and especially as I get older, I'm not seeing that restricting hip turn is a good move for me. So if I'm going to let my back leg straighten a bit to allow for my hip to get deeper, I'm not going to be able to start with my knees so bent.

keegan-thomas-top.jpg

These two videos appear to have a comparable angle: both slightly in front of the player. Keegan has still retained the depth with which he set up, which permits his arms to come through where they need to. JT has as well, but it looks like because of his setup, he has a bit more room for his arms to get through. Both are "maintaining their spine angle" (actually converting it into a side bend), but it appears to me that Keegan has to be bent even more than JT to get to the ball.

keegan-thomas-impact.jpg

In no way is this a critique of Keegan's swing. If I could do what he does, I would. What I'm thinking is that I'm just not capable of maintaining the hip depth that I'm establishing at setup the way that he does, and that I'll have a better chance of a swing that doesn't lurch forward toward the ball if I don't start so deep.

Here's a quick illustration of what I hope to expect. The second swing is obviously just a practice swing without a ball, but the way that my impact position retains the same hip-to-head position of my address (compared to the swing from Saturday, in which I've clearly lurched toward the ball about six inches) is what I'm hoping to see when I hit balls with the new setup:

extension.jpg

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