Stealth carbon face durability?? (Post PGA show pics from Reddit)

[SMUGamer]

I went to our local golf shop here in San Diego Friday evening and was just looking around. I walked up to the Stealths as I was mostly checking out the 3 woods which was the only one I would consider. The sales guy came up and said something like, wow, the Stealths........I said nah, not looking at the drivers just the 3 woods.......he said something like, good, our test heads faces are already turning orangish/white with all the hits....I said, I've heard about face issues and seen that the face can scar or indent......he then said yeah, I would not buy one, have you checked out the new Cobra's and Rogues..........

100% honest to GOD story fellas............

There may be some truth to this new Korean firm that bought Taylormade in May of 2021.......

Edited February 13, 2022 by SMUGamer

[GolfSpy_APH]

5 hours ago, SMUGamer said:

I went to our local golf shop here in San Diego Friday evening and was just looking around. I walked up to the Stealths as I was mostly checking out the 3 woods which was the only one I would consider. The sales guy came up and said something like, wow, the Stealths........I said nah, not looking at the drivers just the 3 woods.......he said something like, good, our test heads faces are already turning orangish/white with all the hits....I said, I've heard about face issues and seen that the face can scar or indent......he then said yeah, I would not buy one, have you checked out the new Cobra's and Rogues..........

100% honest to GOD story fellas............

There may be some truth to this new Korean firm that bought Taylormade in May of 2021.......

Color doesn't bother me. Wedges, irons, fairways and drivers... So all clubs wear over time and get hit spots where you can see blemishes or wear patterns. That's nothing new to golf. Just like the Mizuno blue wedges... Color wears again nothing new in golf. 

Our local shop was pushing Callaway over TM as they have had less then great experiences with carbon Clubs (not sure which but they carry a lot of Japanese OEM's as well so maybe one of them). 

I sit in this camp - TM had pushed the boundaries in what can be done with club manufacturing. They have stood behind their product saying they won't produce another metal faced driver. I believe that is very telling in their trust for their product. However I will more then likely wait for the second version of the stealth next season before purchasing. Not because I don't trust it, but because I do believe OEM's learn in their first iteration of a new club tech. 

There will be stories of drivers or clubs having issues or imperfections but isn't that normal? Isn't that what a warranty is for? Can't we say very similar things for just about any OEM having the odd Club here or there with a flaw despite tighter manufacturing standards? 

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Our local shop was pushing Callaway over TM as they have had less then great experiences with carbon Clubs (not sure which but they carry a lot of Japanese OEM's as well so maybe one of them). 

See this in shops a lot based on what brand is giving freebies to staff or has staff on some kind of deal. Sometimes during the non demo day season demo day reps will work in the stores for that side income and they are going to push that brand.

9 hours ago, SMUGamer said:

I went to our local golf shop here in San Diego Friday evening and was just looking around. I walked up to the Stealths as I was mostly checking out the 3 woods which was the only one I would consider. The sales guy came up and said something like, wow, the Stealths........I said nah, not looking at the drivers just the 3 woods.......he said something like, good, our test heads faces are already turning orangish/white with all the hits....I said, I've heard about face issues and seen that the face can scar or indent......he then said yeah, I would not buy one, have you checked out the new Cobra's and Rogues..........

100% honest to GOD story fellas............

There may be some truth to this new Korean firm that bought Taylormade in May of 2021.......

Did you ask to see the heads or did he show them to you?

[GolfSpy_APH]

24 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

See this in shops a lot based on what brand is giving freebies to staff or has staff on some kind of deal. Sometimes during the non demo day season demo day reps will work in the stores for that side income and they are going to push that brand.

I'm hesitant to go this route as they did still promote Sim2. 

I certainly know it happens and there are incentive based programs for retailers, but it seemed more based off bad previous experience with carbon faced drivers and skepticism for this one. 

I'm waiting for the cobra heads to come in and then will do a better comparison. 

[SMUGamer]

4 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

See this in shops a lot based on what brand is giving freebies to staff or has staff on some kind of deal. Sometimes during the non demo day season demo day reps will work in the stores for that side income and they are going to push that brand.

Did you ask to see the heads or did he show them to you?

Yes, he did. He also said a few more things about the Stealth that I will not repeat until it becomes more widely  known and much less controversial. I buy a lot from this store every year so I have a really good relationship with them and want to keep it that way. 

[SMUGamer]

7 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Color doesn't bother me. Wedges, irons, fairways and drivers... So all clubs wear over time and get hit spots where you can see blemishes or wear patterns. That's nothing new to golf. Just like the Mizuno blue wedges... Color wears again nothing new in golf. 

Our local shop was pushing Callaway over TM as they have had less then great experiences with carbon Clubs (not sure which but they carry a lot of Japanese OEM's as well so maybe one of them). 

I sit in this camp - TM had pushed the boundaries in what can be done with club manufacturing. They have stood behind their product saying they won't produce another metal faced driver. I believe that is very telling in their trust for their product. However I will more then likely wait for the second version of the stealth next season before purchasing. Not because I don't trust it, but because I do believe OEM's learn in their first iteration of a new club tech. 

There will be stories of drivers or clubs having issues or imperfections but isn't that normal? Isn't that what a warranty is for? Can't we say very similar things for just about any OEM having the odd Club here or there with a flaw despite tighter manufacturing standards? 

Based on what I was told from the horse's mouth and what I saw, its not mere discoloration. The issues go beyond that, such as structural/material. IF carbon face continues (big IF), then your strategy to pass on this generation is very wise as it appears they still have work to do. As far as warranties: I don't want to be in a position to change drivers mid-season from a warranty issue. Its much more about getting the best driver at the get-go, so I don't lose my momentum with my boys, which could cost me much more than a Stealth if Im not playing my best from the tee box's. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

3 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

Based on what I was told from the horse's mouth and what I saw, its not mere discoloration. The issues go beyond that, such as structural/material. IF carbon face continues (big IF), then your strategy to pass on this generation is very wise as it appears they still have work to do. As far as warranties: I don't want to be in a position to change drivers mid-season from a warranty issue. Its much more about getting the best driver at the get-go, so I don't lose my momentum with my boys, which could cost me much more than a Stealth if Im not playing my best from the tee box's. 

I still believe they have a good product and despite the stories of some of these issues i have yet to see anything that would truly put me off the product. 

As a sum I've heard more positive then negative thing about it and will give credit to TM in theit ability to not put out a massively flawed product. 

[chisag]

5 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

still believe they have a good product and despite the stories of some of these issues i have yet to see anything that would truly put me off the product. 

As a sum I've heard more positive then negative thing about it and will give credit to TM in theit ability to not put out a massively flawed product. 

 

... It is obviously a personal preference but I just love the shape of the Stealth head. Just not a fan of the longer front to back heads that just don't look right to my eye at address. Never a problem when hitting good drives but on an off day the head looks unwieldy and one of those mental things about golf that can just get in your head (sorry for the pun ). The Sim2 head looks great but I think the Stealth blacked out where the Sim2 is white looks ever better and I look forward to demoing one. 

[russtopherb]

26 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I still believe they have a good product and despite the stories of some of these issues i have yet to see anything that would truly put me off the product. 

As a sum I've heard more positive then negative thing about it and will give credit to TM in theit ability to not put out a massively flawed product. 

Granted it's still a very new release, but one picture online and a bunch of anecdotal "evidence" by folks with no actual proof to back it up means diddly squat in the long run. Could the face be a potential issue down the road? Sure. But right now it just feels like a lot of dumping on TM for introducing something new (and red).

[chisag]

26 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I still believe they have a good product and despite the stories of some of these issues i have yet to see anything that would truly put me off the product. 

 

... And you know this of course, and it has been touched on already but most equipment is 5 years in the pipeline or even longer. It boggles my mind to hear some think TalyorMade (or any OEM) would not only rush a product to market before it is ready, but risk their position as the #1 driver in golf with a new technology they were not absolutely sure would at the very least be equal to the previous years driver but most likely an improvement over previous technology, even if that improvement is minor to non existent for some. My guess is nobody owning a Sim or Sim2 will hit the Stealth and lose yards or dispersion but will gain some of each or find little if any difference, but not perform worse. 

[SMUGamer]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... And you know this of course, and it has been touched on already but most equipment is 5 years in the pipeline or even longer. It boggles my mind to hear some think TalyorMade (or any OEM) would not only rush a product to market before it is ready, but risk their position as the #1 driver in golf with a new technology they were not absolutely sure would at the very least be equal to the previous years driver but most likely an improvement over previous technology, even if that improvement is minor to non existent for some. My guess is nobody owning a Sim or Sim2 will hit the Stealth and lose yards or dispersion but will gain some of each or find little if any difference, but not perform worse. 

I am a huge advocate that common sense prevails most of the time, but not all the time. To take the position that just because an OEM is a market leader, they cannot take steps backwards is misguided, at best. 

Case in point of a massive OEM blunder after extensive product testing before releasing to the public (which there are thousands more examples such as Callaway introducing carbon face over 20 years ago then abandoning it):

"New Coke was the informal name given by the Coca-Cola Company to a new formula for its most popular drink, Coca-Cola, released in 1985. It was renamed Coke II in 1990^[1] and discontinued in July 2002. 

By 1985, Coca-Cola had been losing market share to diet soft drinks and non-cola beverages for several years. Blind taste tests suggested that consumers preferred the sweeter taste of rival Pepsi, and so the Coca-Cola recipe was reformulated. The American public reacted negatively, and New Coke was considered a major failure.

The company reintroduced the original Coke formula within three months, rebranded "Coca-Cola Classic", resulting in a significant sales boost; this led to speculation that the New Coke formula had been a marketing ploy to stimulate sales of the original Coca-Cola, which the company has denied.^[2] The story of New Coke remains influential as a cautionary tale against tampering with a well-established and successful brand." 

This is of particular concern when a Korean Private Equity firm recently purchased TM and is under stress to produce immediate ROI. Not conclusive but of concern until proven otherwise. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke

[GolfSpy_APH]

6 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

I am a huge advocate that common sense prevails most of the time, but not all the time. To take the position that just because an OEM is a market leader, they cannot take steps backwards is misguided, at best. 

Case in point of a massive OEM blunder after extensive product testing before releasing to the public (which there are thousands more examples such as Callaway introducing carbon face over 20 years ago then abandoning it):

"New Coke was the informal name given by the Coca-Cola Company to a new formula for its most popular drink, Coca-Cola, released in 1985. It was renamed Coke II in 1990^[1] and discontinued in July 2002. 

By 1985, Coca-Cola had been losing market share to diet soft drinks and non-cola beverages for several years. Blind taste tests suggested that consumers preferred the sweeter taste of rival Pepsi, and so the Coca-Cola recipe was reformulated. The American public reacted negatively, and New Coke was considered a major failure.

The company reintroduced the original Coke formula within three months, rebranded "Coca-Cola Classic", resulting in a significant sales boost; this led to speculation that the New Coke formula had been a marketing ploy to stimulate sales of the original Coca-Cola, which the company has denied.^[2] The story of New Coke remains influential as a cautionary tale against tampering with a well-established and successful brand." 

This is of particular concern when a Korean Private Equity firm recently purchased TM and is under stress to produce immediate ROI. Not conclusive but of concern until proven otherwise. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke

I don't think anyone can deny there are set backs with just about any company. That is part of the risk in coming out with something new and away from the norm. 

I don't believe that should give us reason to be too concerned here. Also 20 years is a long long time and technology has progressed a long ways since then. So yes I do believe a carbon face from 20 years ago may not have been great, however with where we are at now I can certainly see it working. 

This is not to say that there could not be potential faults here and there (for reference I had my callaway driver basically blow up on me this summer and it has only been used for maybe 2 seasons). 

I think we could go round and round on this topic, but until I see a caved in face or significant damage to a normally used club I'll choose to believe they have a solid product EVEN if I don't intend on making a purchase this year on one. 

[SMUGamer]

23 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I don't think anyone can deny there are set backs with just about any company. That is part of the risk in coming out with something new and away from the norm. 

I don't believe that should give us reason to be too concerned here. Also 20 years is a long long time and technology has progressed a long ways since then. So yes I do believe a carbon face from 20 years ago may not have been great, however with where we are at now I can certainly see it working. 

This is not to say that there could not be potential faults here and there (for reference I had my callaway driver basically blow up on me this summer and it has only been used for maybe 2 seasons). 

I think we could go round and round on this topic, but until I see a caved in face or significant damage to a normally used club I'll choose to believe they have a solid product EVEN if I don't intend on making a purchase this year on one. 

If there is a problem, I don't suspect the carbon face being the problem. I'm pretty sure Callaway proved that carbon face tech could withstand the beatings 20 years ago, as I haven't heard those heads were caving-in. I may stand corrected but I have not heard of it.

IF there is a problem for TM's new faces, I speculate it will be with the substances/materials applied to their carbon faces, not the carbon itself. Based on what I've seen to date, therein lies the potential vulnerability. 

As others have said, time will tell...........

[Mick Close]

Even if the head has hit a lot of shots I would think this is concerning. If I take my 2 rounds a week minimum and at least 12 driver shots per round that is around 1200 shots per year and I would be very annoyed if a $1000 (Australian) driver looked anywhere that bad after only a year. Will be interested to see what these look like on the used market in 12 months.

[Tim A]

A tee that over time is very easy on the driver face is the 4 more yards. It is softer and the prongs of the tee flex as they are long and all the center is open and they last a long time I have used since they came out.

[SMUGamer]

Here is a post from one of the very popular and well known industry guys on the other well known forum. I would post the link but not certain if that is allowed here (posted this after testing hundreds of drives):


"Stealth Plus brought back the ball speeds of the OG SIM.  Only concern I have is the face durability after hitting hundreds of balls with sandy soil.  Pitting might be an issue." 

If this is true for most or all Stealth owners, I cannot think of a bigger debacle for TM. Just my 2 cents. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by SMUGamer

[russtopherb]

5 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

Here is a post from one of the very popular and well known industry guys on the other well known forum. I would post the link but not certain if that is allowed here (posted this after testing hundreds of drives):


"Stealth Plus brought back the ball speeds of the OG SIM.  Only concern I have is the face durability after hitting hundreds of balls with sandy soil.  Pitting might be an issue." 

If this is true for most or all Stealth owners, I cannot think of a bigger debacle for TM. Just my 2 cents. 

Pitting “might” be an issue due to hundreds of sandy balls doesn’t feel like a debacle at all. 

[SMUGamer]

5 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

Pitting “might” be an issue due to hundreds of sandy balls doesn’t feel like a debacle at all. 

Well, as long as its your driver and NOT mine, then we can agree on that.

[GolfSpy_APH]

7 hours ago, SMUGamer said:

Well, as long as its your driver and NOT mine, then we can agree on that.

We understand you are highly skeptical of the face.

You've made many posts about it. We know you don't want or believe in this face/Club. We still have yet to see any true visual of major damage or discoloration. 

Any face is going to show wear if it is being hit by a sandy uncleaned Golfball... More to that why would someone not clean their golf ball before hitting their driver? Whole other conversation. 

I hope that anytime someone mentions a flaw or hiccup with the product/face we aren't going to see a new post here about how bad this could be.

I've gone to several shops and not seen any of the damage, discoloration or flaws which have been suggested so jury is still out. 

It's good to have some level of concern, but given the tour rep this driver has and use it seems as though TM has done a solid job with it overall with a low level of concern.

When I see visually these issues or flaws i will take a step back, but as i mentioned before TM has put a lot of effort and backing into this product and i will choose to believe in their efforts until proven or shown otherwise.

[SMUGamer]

5 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Any face is going to show wear if it is being hit by a sandy uncleaned Golfball... More to that why would someone not clean their golf ball before hitting their driver? Whole other conversation. 

This just simply is not true. Would you like me to take a picture of my TSi3 that Ive been playing since they came out and share it? It still looks mint. I am not stopping anyone from LOVING Stealth nor could I care less what name is stamped on anyones driver. I have no skin in the game regarding OEM sales. This is a forum to share information, opinions, thoughts, etc. Yet it seems like the MODS here only want one view. Its extremely ODD and kinda cult feeling........

Edited February 23, 2022 by SMUGamer