L.A.B. DF3 Putters - 2024 Forum Review

[Cfhandyman]

2 hours ago, Braehead said:

I found and watched those videos too.  I changed my grip, my stance, my ball position - but then I couldn't see my line any more and my confidence evaporated.  Standing in my putting stance, without a club and positioning the ball where I best see my line, I need it to be under my right eye (but about half a ball to a ball up my forehead, if that makes sense).  That's the total opposite of what L.A.B. recommend.  Are you fitting the club to the player or the player to the club?  

I agree the putter works better as described above - but I don't!  

Absolutely agree.  The club has to work for you and your swing/stroke.  That’s why you go get fit to find which clubs work best for you.  What works well for one, may not work well for another. 

[Braehead]

2 minutes ago, Cfhandyman said:

Absolutely agree.  The club has to work for you and your swing/stroke.  That’s why you go get fit to find which clubs work best for you.  What works well for one, may not work well for another. 

I was fitted.  You can find my review of the process elsewhere in these forums.

[GolfSpy MPR]

Through six indoor sessions with each putter:

Observations:

• Evnroll continues to maintain a solid lead (it scores almost about as much above the DF3 as the DF3 does above the Edel). It also leads in all three categories.
• It's biggest lead, though, remains in HackMotion, which isn't shocking: you'd like to think that an armlock putter would do really well in wrist stability. I mentioned in an earlier post that I tweaked the overall scoring formula. Originally, it was an average of each gadget's score. Now it's 20%/40%/40%. I decreased the HackMotion score for two reasons. One is that, while wrist stability matters, it should matter as much as the stroke outcome. Second, because HM is only tracking two number (flexion/extension and ulnar/radial), and I'm tracking multiple data points for Blast and ExPutt, those two numbers were having a disproportionally high impact on the overall scoring.
• Edel, so far, seems to show no particular trend up or down (the line chart reflects the scoring in each of the six sessions so far). The other two might show a slight upward trajectory overall, though the sample size makes this tough to consider.
• Although I have the screens for Blast and HackMotion available to me when compiling data, my sole focus in each 18-putt sessions is to get each putt as close to the hole on ExPutt as possible. When I finish collecting data, my intent is to continue to use this setup, but to focus on practice with the DF3 to get my numbers as close to my ideal parameters as possible. In particular, right now, all three putters are doing poorly on overall putt time. I'd prefer my stroke to take about .9 seconds; all three putters right now are close to 1.0 seconds, which is too slow.

[jbern]

54 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

In particular, right now, all three putters are doing poorly on overall putt time. I'd prefer my stroke to take about .9 seconds; all three putters right now are close to 1.0 seconds, which is too slow.

I am not familiar with putt time. Which device is capturing putt time? Is it a derivative of tempo? Is the time based on a certain length of putt? I would assume that it would take a longer time to complete a stroke for a longer length putt. 

[CFreddie]

Great news for the broomstick fans out there...

Also, new headcovers in June @Cfhandyman!

[Josh Parker]

1 minute ago, CFreddie said:

Great news for the broomstick fans out there...

Also, new headcovers in June @Cfhandyman!

I have been waiting on this news. They also released green for the rest of the line up. 

[satingolfer]

Congratulations to testers. Looking forward to seeing and hearing all about your experiences. Thanks for sharing. 

[GolfSpy MPR]

18 hours ago, jbern said:

I am not familiar with putt time. Which device is capturing putt time? Is it a derivative of tempo? Is the time based on a certain length of putt? I would assume that it would take a longer time to complete a stroke for a longer length putt. 

Great question!

This is a Blast Motion data point. It is measuring the total length of time it takes from the start of the swing until impact. I think that the total stroke time should be the same on all of your putts, if you are varying the stroke length. So if my stroke takes .9 seconds, and I'm maintaining a 2:1 backstroke/through stroke ratio, the clubhead speed of my putter will vary depending on how far back I take it.

For me: when my stroke starts taking too long, it gets less stable. I've found that Blast's "Tour" recommendation of .9 seconds of total stroke time is good. It doesn't sound like much, but if I get up to 1.05 seconds, I get steer-y with my hands. That's never good. It's especially not helpful with the L.A.B.

[Cfhandyman]

On course Update with L.A.B. DF3 after 9 rounds of play (Arccos data) Vs. previous 9 rounds with Evnroll

Well, it had to happen.  After a hot and great start with the L.A.B. DF3, it came back to earth yesterday.  Front nine was miserable with 19 putts in total, two 3 putts and only 1 putt.  Back nine, Lab rat  came back to life, 2 birdies, 14 putts, 4 one putts and no triples.  Overall, though, the L.A.B. has been quite impressive with approximately 0.5 gain in strokes gained versus the Evnroll over 9 rounds.

 

What has Stood out: An increase in the number of one putts to 6.7 per round, an increase in birdies to 1.9 per round, an increase in three putts and an overall increase in strokes gained for putting.  The only anomaly is that three putts increased, but I believe this is a function of getting used to the L.A.B. with respect to distance control.  Where it is doing exceptionally well is putts from ten feet and in, plus the added confidence it has given me in knowing that I can make these putts consistently. I strongly suspect that this is due to the exceptional face control of the L.A.B. which will be tested on Quintic to validate.  Results tomorrow.  I continue to be impressed with the performance of the L.A.B. DF3 and its making a very strong case to remain in the bag.  Obviously, I would like to see if the results continue to hold after 20 rounds or so.  Overall, my golf game has improved primarily through a better short game and better putting.

Arccos data - Evnroll historical (2023) 50 round and last 20 rounds versus 0 handicap and latest 9 rounds with the L.A.B. DF3

 SG = Strokes gained

Caveat: The historical rounds (2023) were played with a deteriorating left hip. Hip replacement done Feb 2024.   

[GolfSpy MPR]

There's light at the end of the tunnel! Seven indoor sessions complete with each putter. That's 378 putts of data finished, 162 more putts to go, and then the indoor testing is complete.

Today, I did one session with each putter, and trends continued. After some early volatility, the Edel has settled in to scoring right around 70 (out of a possible 100) in three straight sessions: 70.6, 69.1, and 70.5. In fact, if you toss out it's highest session (75.8) and it's lowest (60.5), all of the other five sessions range from 69.1 to 71.9.

The Midlock as well putt up a score right around its typical performance. Today's number was 78.5; it's seven-session average is 77.1.

The L.A.B. surprised me today. I did its session after lunch, and to be honest, it was frustrating. I think I made no more than 2 or 3 putts out of the 18 on ExPutt, and everything just felt off. Imagine my surprise, then, when I punched the numbers into my spreadsheet and found that it was the DF3's best score so far: a 78.2.

For the graph: ignore the big uptick at the end: those point to perfect scores for sessions I haven't done yet.

At least right now, the DF3 continues to see a steady increase in performance over the seven sessions.

I have enjoyed the discussion in this thread as to the pros and cons of adjusting to a club versus having the club fitted to your current tendencies. In the short term, obviously, the answer is to get a club that gets the best performance out of your current technique.

If I went in for a brand agnostic putter fitting, and the fitter kept telling me, "I know this club doesn't work well for you here in this fitting, but it you work with it, it will," I'd say he's missed the point of the fitting; he's just become a sales guy.

But I think there are clubs that, being quite different from others, offer something that could reward investment of effort and even change of technique. I think here, for instance, of the old SLDR driver: if you could increase your precision in hitting the sweet spot, in its day, it could produce longer drives than almost anything else. I think the AutoFlex testers are also dealing with this: the AutoFlex seems to reward a very specific kind of tempo/transition, and if you can find it, it seems to produce results quite unlike almost any other shaft on the market.

I think there are good reasons to think of L.A.B.'s technology in much the same way. Given what I've seen in their demos and with the putter in my hand, the L.A.B. balancing does something that others putters simply don't do. If you can adjust to it, it has the potential to create the most consistent version of you as a putter. But it's going to be up to the golfer whether it's worth plowing through that adjustment.

For my part: the early positive on-course results are definitely encouraging me to stay with it. I have another 9-hole league round tonight; I'll update when I have the Arccos numbers added to my data.

[ole gray]

Guys I ordered my DF3 on May 15th and received an email today May 30th that it was shipped!  Heck that makes me happier than a hawg drowning in a slop bucket..... 

[Rearviewmirror]

I may have a problem... I guess I'm joining as an (unofficial) tester. Big Red hasn't been quite so reliable (as mentioned above, 3 putts and leaving lags 7ft+ short have abounded), so when I saw that my local store had the blue DF3 in stock in my specs with the Accra shaft I couldn't pass up testing it out. After rolling it... well, that's my home carpet not the golf shop.

Just hitting the putter, the DF3 has more of a "ting" noise off the face, which I actually quite like. It's definitely more muted if you miss the middle of the face.

Going back and forth between the DF3 and the Mezz, the Mezz feels really light in my hands by comparison, and as if the face is way more likely to twist open or shut. One other noticeable difference is that a toe strike on the Mezz feels like the face is creating "gear effect" and sending the ball left. The ball off the face of the Mezz in general feels a bit "dead", with the DF3 providing a much more "engaged" feel on my ball (Pro V1). Exactly the same shafts, so really easy to A/B compare.

On ExPutt I saw the DF3 rolling way truer to line and also had way fewer putts that I either left significantly short or sent way past the hole. 

I played around on an actual outdoor putting green too and was leaving a lot of putts from really far out within 1-3ft from the hole, which has not been my putting experience on course lately. First round with the DF3 on Tuesday and I'll report back! ExPutt comparison data below:

DF3 with 10 stimp

Mezz 1 with 10 stimp

DF3 with 12 stimp

Mezz 1 with 12 stimp

 

 

 

 

[Cfhandyman]

36 minutes ago, Rearviewmirror said:

I may have a problem... I guess I'm joining as an (unofficial) tester. Big Red hasn't been quite so reliable (as mentioned above, 3 putts and leaving lags 7ft+ short have abounded), so when I saw that my local store had the blue DF3 in stock in my specs with the Accra shaft I couldn't pass up testing it out. After rolling it... well, that's my home carpet not the golf shop.

Just hitting the putter, the DF3 has more of a "ting" noise off the face, which I actually quite like. It's definitely more muted if you miss the middle of the face.

Going back and forth between the DF3 and the Mezz, the Mezz feels really light in my hands by comparison, and as if the face is way more likely to twist open or shut. One other noticeable difference is that a toe strike on the Mezz feels like the face is creating "gear effect" and sending the ball left. The ball off the face of the Mezz in general feels a bit "dead", with the DF3 providing a much more "engaged" feel on my ball (Pro V1). Exactly the same shafts, so really easy to A/B compare.

On ExPutt I saw the DF3 rolling way truer to line and also had way fewer putts that I either left significantly short or sent way past the hole. 

I played around on an actual outdoor putting green too and was leaving a lot of putts from really far out within 1-3ft from the hole, which has not been my putting experience on course lately. First round with the DF3 on Tuesday and I'll report back! ExPutt comparison data below:

DF3 with 10 stimp

Mezz 1 with 10 stimp

DF3 with 12 stimp

Mezz 1 with 12 stimp

 

 

 

Great data and the more the merrier.  Thanks for sharing.

Edited May 30 by Cfhandyman

[MattWillGolf]

I had a better outing with Nemo this morning than last time out. Once again 9 holes. 19 putts in all. I had two 3-putts which were particularly galling due the distance, 1-2 footers. I had six 2-putts. And One 1-putt. My six footers seem better than shorter distances for some reason. More time on the practice green is in order.

[Rearviewmirror]

4 minutes ago, MattWillGolf said:

I had a better outing with Nemo this morning than last time out. Once again 9 holes. 19 putts in all. I had two 3-putts which were particularly galling due the distance, 1-2 footers. I had six 2-putts. And One 1-putt. My six footers seem better than shorter distances for some reason. More time on the practice green is in order.

What's your miss on short ones?

[jbern]

4 hours ago, Rearviewmirror said:

I may have a problem... I guess I'm joining as an (unofficial) tester. Big Red hasn't been quite so reliable (as mentioned above, 3 putts and leaving lags 7ft+ short have abounded), so when I saw that my local store had the blue DF3 in stock in my specs with the Accra shaft I couldn't pass up testing it out. After rolling it... well, that's my home carpet not the golf shop.

Just hitting the putter, the DF3 has more of a "ting" noise off the face, which I actually quite like. It's definitely more muted if you miss the middle of the face.

Going back and forth between the DF3 and the Mezz, the Mezz feels really light in my hands by comparison, and as if the face is way more likely to twist open or shut. One other noticeable difference is that a toe strike on the Mezz feels like the face is creating "gear effect" and sending the ball left. The ball off the face of the Mezz in general feels a bit "dead", with the DF3 providing a much more "engaged" feel on my ball (Pro V1). Exactly the same shafts, so really easy to A/B compare.

On ExPutt I saw the DF3 rolling way truer to line and also had way fewer putts that I either left significantly short or sent way past the hole. 

I played around on an actual outdoor putting green too and was leaving a lot of putts from really far out within 1-3ft from the hole, which has not been my putting experience on course lately. First round with the DF3 on Tuesday and I'll report back! ExPutt comparison data below:

DF3 with 10 stimp

Mezz 1 with 10 stimp

DF3 with 12 stimp

Mezz 1 with 12 stimp

 

 

 

 

That's awesome that you're diving into the DF3 and I'm glad you're having initial success with it! I like your description of the sound as a ting, but muted. I have been having trouble coming up with descriptors for the sound.

Between the Mezz and the DF3, does ball position change since the shaft is farther behind the face of the DF3?

Also, what do you think of the blue color? I'm, personally, loving it!

 

 

Edited May 31 by jbern
typos

[Rearviewmirror]

6 hours ago, jbern said:

That's awesome that you're diving into the DF3 and I'm glad you're having initial success with it! I like your description of the sound as a ting, but muted. I have been having trouble coming up with descriptors for the sound.

Between the Mezz and the DF3, does ball position change since the shaft is farther behind the face of the DF3?

Also, what do you think of the blue color? I'm, personally, loving it!

I really like the face feel. I do wonder if the slightly more "positive" feel off the face is what is helping me on lag putting so far. I will be really interested to see how it compares on the course - playing a tough track on Tuesday so we will see how it goes.

I haven't markedly changed ball position - I tend to go for what feels natural, which tends to coincide with the tip of the shaft about central in my stance. 

I read this study a couple of months ago on red vs blue for accuracy vs gross motor skills and it was my primary motivation for wanting to try blue this time around. The red is great from a contrast with the green perspective, but the DF3 already feels easier to align with the big head/chunky alignment mark, so I'll take accuracy as my main goal for now.

It was interesting - on the practice green (outside) I was seeing some long range bombs from 25-35ft drop. Prior to yesterday I couldn't tell you the last time I holed anything over 20ft with my Mezz either on the practice green or the course.

[ejgaudette]

@GolfSpy MPR Reading through all about the data you are collecting the total time of the putting stroke sounds like a very good one to be mindful of. I in the past I have struggled on those 5 to 10 foot putts most and in thinking about it that is the distance where I can't just be a bit firm and knock it it, but not long enough that I feel I can be free flowing with it. I want to try to be mindful of how long it takes on these length putts and see if results improve.

[Cfhandyman]

 Week 6 Summary  -  May 31/2024

The Bottom line (Executive) summary: The testing evolves.  We have @CFreddie taking Chewie for his first visit and check up with Dr. SAM.  Chewie was excited, but really nervous at the same time.  @Cfhandyman does a 3 part mini review on the Quintic ball roll system and what to expect in a putter fitting testing.  Struggles with the L.A.B. on the course as testers try to unlock its magic or get used to it.  Then a subsequent discussion on if there is a learning curve to using the L.A.B. DF3 and if so, what are the tips to success. A discussion about the headcovers and a new release by L.A.B. of colours, armlock/broom stick version of the DF3 and new headcovers coming next week.   Great stuff.

Tester of the week Tester of the week – @Steve F Steve Fradkin

Best post(s)

@CFreddie putter fitting/testing on SAM, Chewie visits Club Champion, part 1

@CFreddie Part 2 - Testing on SAM with Chewie

@Cfhandyman Part 2 Quintic explained – face angle

@Cfhandyman  LAB DF3 - IS there a learning curve to using it

Best pictures 

  

   

 

 Best lines –

@Braehead Hence the old saying "There's three types of lies.  Lies, damn lies and statistics"

 

Join us next Friday for Week 7 Bottom line summary

Links to previous weeks summary

Week 5

Week 4

Week 3

Week 2

Week 1

 

 

               

                  

 

 

 

Edited May 31 by Cfhandyman

[Bucky CC]

16 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

I think there are good reasons to think of L.A.B.'s technology in much the same way. Given what I've seen in their demos and with the putter in my hand, the L.A.B. balancing does something that others putters simply don't do. If you can adjust to it, it has the potential to create the most consistent version of you as a putter. But it's going to be up to the golfer whether it's worth plowing through that adjustment.

This statement is exactly how I feel about my recent purchase of the DF3.  I've had great results at home in a controlled environment, but my first time out on the course last night was terrible.  I don't think I made a single putt over 3 feet and lost strokes at every distance.

The DF3 feels different than any putter I've ever used.  I could see how it could be a magic wand in the hands of some people, but for others (including me) it's going to take a lot of work to get used the stroke type required to get the most out of the magic.

[jbern]

DF3 Detailed Exputt Random Distance (5' to 50') Test 1

I copied the Sacks Parente @cnosil random distance test method and did a random distance test of my own from 5 to 50 feet on the Exputt and logged all of the data into Excel for each putt. 

I hit 54 putts in the session with the DF3. Below is the data including make percentage, leave distance and face angle at impact.

Overall the session went pretty well with the DF3, but there is definitely room for improvement. I let a few putts get away from me where the face angle was very shut (outside of 2 degrees) or I drastically miss hit the distance number and left a handful outside of 6 feet. I was also a little disappointed how many putts I left outside of 3 feet. 

Analyzing my putting stroke, I wanted to show graphically that my path tendency is VERY much to the right. Only one putt had a left path (the one dot to the left of the 0 line). I don't mind the right path, but I would like to reel in the shots where the path is greater than 2 degrees.

The face angle at impact definitely has a closed or left bias. I'm assuming this is to compensate for my right biased putter stroke path. I'm really hoping this can get more zeroed out as I become more comfortable with Dory the DF3 and let the technology work its magic.

In summary, this was a decent showing from the DF3. I am a little nervous about comparing the DF3 head to head vs. my armlock because the putting setup and strokes are so different for me. I'm concerned that I'm going to loose my progress with the DF3 by switching back and forth. 

I plan to do this detailed Exputt session two or three more times throughout the testing period to see if and how things improve. 

Let me know if there's any other data you'd like to see.

[jbern]

On 5/30/2024 at 10:55 AM, GolfSpy MPR said:

Great question!

This is a Blast Motion data point. It is measuring the total length of time it takes from the start of the swing until impact. I think that the total stroke time should be the same on all of your putts, if you are varying the stroke length. So if my stroke takes .9 seconds, and I'm maintaining a 2:1 backstroke/through stroke ratio, the clubhead speed of my putter will vary depending on how far back I take it.

For me: when my stroke starts taking too long, it gets less stable. I've found that Blast's "Tour" recommendation of .9 seconds of total stroke time is good. It doesn't sound like much, but if I get up to 1.05 seconds, I get steer-y with my hands. That's never good. It's especially not helpful with the L.A.B.

Thanks for the response! I guess I didn't think that the stroke time would be the same on each putt, but on longer putts the club head is moving faster, even though it's traveling a longer distance. The Exputt has a tempo metronome (that is super annoying BTW) and I was wondering how to apply that feature. Looks like you've provided the answer.

[GolfSpy MPR]

Blech!

This was my league round last night, and the first bad putting round with the DF3. Everything bad here in driven by three missed 3-foot putts. All of them were slight sliders, but obviously, I need to make those—at least 2 of them. On these, I'm not sure it would be fair to blame the DF3; I missed all three on the low side.

On the plus side, lag putting continues to be solid, with good 2-putts from 26 and 34 feet. A little asterisk: I rolled the 34 footer close to five feet by, but having seen the line coming back, made a confident putt that never seemed a threat to miss.

So in addition to my ExPutt work, I'm headed back down to my basement green. I have four holes on the green, so I have right and left breakers. I'm going to try to get down there and make 50+ three-footers a day for a while.

[Cfhandyman]

My Putter Fitting/testing using Quintic at TXG (Club Champion Canada)

Fitter: Mike Martysiewicz, Director of Club building and fitting as well as co host of their Youtube channel together with Ian Fraser, GM Canada.  Mike is very knowledgeable, also benefitting from working with Ian for ten years. Mike’s specialty is wedges and putters. I’ve been going to them for years and more importantly, implicitly trust their advice and recommendations.  My game has benefited considerably as a result.

 

 Goals: To determine which putter works best for me through testing on Quintic via putter fitting/testing.  Which putter provides the best face control as this accounts for 83-90% of the start direction of the putt.  Which putter provides optimal face control, launch, roll, spin, etc.  While my putters have been fitted, they have never been tested head to head on Quintic. Based on this, what will TXG recommend?    Right now, I’m relying on what I see on course and from my Arccos data.    Based on my on course data (Arccos), they rank as follows:

LAB DF3 (slightly) > Evnroll Tourstroke > Scotty Cameron Phantom X11 > Odyssey Exo 7

My comparator putters. Both the Scotty and Evnroll are very very good. Based on my on course Arccos data, where the Evnroll wins out, is that I can more often make more long putts (>20’) with the Evnroll.  Switching back to the Evnroll gravity grip already has made a significant difference.

 The lads ready for battle

The Scotty beat out the Odyssey for the same reason.    With each switch, I’ve gained about 0.5 stokes based on strokes gained information from Arccos. All three have stability shafts and Evnroll gravity grip. The Scotty and Odyssey have the original stability shaft which is heavier than the stability tour in the Evnroll which is a more streamed down version. The extra weight of the shaft is somewhat offset by the counterbalanced Evnroll gravity grip which has a 10”, 70 gm steel rod inserted in the grip.  

   After seeing what the L.A.B. can do 

VERSUS  

 Testing on Quintic at TXG

I was upfront with them, in that I told them (Ian and Mike), I had been selected by MyGolfSpy to test the L.A.B. DF3 putter and I wanted to do a putter fitting/testing versus my comparator putters.  Mike commented on the impressive collection of putters and he thought this would be a good and fun test.

 

The results: The putters were tested in the following order.  L.A.B. DF3, then Scottie Cameron Phantom X11, then Odyssey Exo 7, then Evnroll Tourstroke and then back to L.A.B.  Each putter was calibrated on the Quintic system prior to testing.  Ball and machine were calibrated prior to testing.

Overall results. This is how Mike ranked the putters after watching me testing on Quintic and reviewing the results:

Quintic results summary:

                 

Legend LAB (top green and bottom orange, Scotty (second and purple), Odyssey (third and blue).   The results In ascending order

Fourth place: The Odyssey, overall was good (slightly open at impact, stability kept it in check.   Face angle on average 1.18 degrees, face rotation 0.07, twist 0.04, launch 3.33, attack 2.38

Third Place: The Scottie was very good, slightly closed overall at impact, again stability kept it in check Face angle on average 0.52 degrees, face rotation – 26, twist 0.04, launch 2.85, attack 2.40

Second place: The Evnroll excellent, the slant neck promotes hands forward and overall excellent results. Excellent face control, Rolled in putt after putt. But not quite at good/consistent as lab. Where the lab took it was it was consistently excellent as it related to launch, face angle, etc.. It also got the ball rolling much sooner than the Evnroll. Face angle on average 0.60 degrees, face rotation  – 48, twist 0.07, launch 3.45, attack 2.27

First place and winner: L.A.B. DF3 – superb.  Like the Evnroll, rolled in putt after putt. What the LAB did exceptionally well was face angle control giving elite tour level readings. Also launch, roll and spin were all very good. It consistently resulted in an almost square face at impact, highlighted by the following with the DF3 demonstrating a tour level face angle of 0.17.  This would equate to me making a 30 foot putt. A number of values in the blue. It put on a clinic. Even when I got a bit handsy, it still held very steady.    Face angle on average 0.03 degrees, face rotation -20, twist -0.24, launch angle 1.64 degrees, attack 1.32 degrees and most often got the ball rolling the soonest.

Shafts: Both the stability shaft and TPT are excellent at minimizing twist and work as advertised

What was very nice to see and validating was that the performance I saw on testing on Quintic, matched what I saw on the golf course.

Mike’s (TXG fitter) recommendation: “Chris after watching you, seeing and evaluating the results, it is very clear and as a friend just put the L.A.B. in the bag and leave it there. It is so good for you.”

 So what makes the L.A.B. DF3 so good?. Here are my thoughts: It’s actually a combination of factors. One is the design and technology of lie angle balancing and returning the club face square to impact. Another contributing factor is the forward press grip. What I hadn’t realized with Scottie and Odyssey is that my hands were not forward while putting and it had an impact. Then the light went off in my head. Of course, the Evnroll and L.A.B. both had you with your hands forward. Mike recommended keeping the Evnroll to practice and train with as it keeps my hands forward by design.

Last piece of the puzzle is the shaft. The TPT shaft, like the stability are rigid and superb at preventing twisting.  So, when you take the head, centre shaft plus forward press grip, plus superb shaft, stiff and very low in torque and then balance it, you are left with something quite special.  In my hands, it’s the real deal and complete package.

Decision time: So after nine rounds of play which to date has shown a 0.5 stroke improvement in strokes gained (Arccos), as well as more one putts and birdies over the Evnroll AND putter testing on Quintic which demonstrated elite face control, the L.A.B. DF3 goes into the bag.  For now.  I say for now as I still want to get at least 20 rounds of data on the L.A.B. DF3 and then compare again.

[Rearviewmirror]

3 hours ago, jbern said:

DF3 Detailed Exputt Random Distance (5' to 50') Test 1

I copied the Sacks Parente @cnosil random distance test method and did a random distance test of my own from 5 to 50 feet on the Exputt and logged all of the data into Excel for each putt. 

I hit 54 putts in the session with the DF3. Below is the data including make percentage, leave distance and face angle at impact.

Overall the session went pretty well with the DF3, but there is definitely room for improvement. I let a few putts get away from me where the face angle was very shut (outside of 2 degrees) or I drastically miss hit the distance number and left a handful outside of 6 feet. I was also a little disappointed how many putts I left outside of 3 feet. 

Analyzing my putting stroke, I wanted to show graphically that my path tendency is VERY much to the right. Only one putt had a left path (the one dot to the left of the 0 line). I don't mind the right path, but I would like to reel in the shots where the path is greater than 2 degrees.

The face angle at impact definitely has a closed or left bias. I'm assuming this is to compensate for my right biased putter stroke path. I'm really hoping this can get more zeroed out as I become more comfortable with Dory the DF3 and let the technology work its magic.

In summary, this was a decent showing from the DF3. I am a little nervous about comparing the DF3 head to head vs. my armlock because the putting setup and strokes are so different for me. I'm concerned that I'm going to loose my progress with the DF3 by switching back and forth. 

I plan to do this detailed Exputt session two or three more times throughout the testing period to see if and how things improve. 

Let me know if there's any other data you'd like to see.

I'd be most concerned about face angle from these results as it'll determine putt start line to a much greater degree (I believe something like 80% of start line?) versus path. When I looked into this, it seemed that you want to be under 0.7º face angle to have a shot at putts dropping inside of 20ft, and more like sub-0.5º for 20-30ft.

It might be worth experimenting with ball position (a little forward or back in your stance) to see if that ups the consistency.

[GolfSpy MPR]

From L.A.B.'s CEO:

[Rearviewmirror]

9 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

From L.A.B.'s CEO:

Orrrr not:

Sam seems great, but it's always a bit of a brutal move when your CEO decides to try to launch something over the weekend.

[jbern]

18 hours ago, Rearviewmirror said:

I'd be most concerned about face angle from these results as it'll determine putt start line to a much greater degree (I believe something like 80% of start line?) versus path. When I looked into this, it seemed that you want to be under 0.7º face angle to have a shot at putts dropping inside of 20ft, and more like sub-0.5º for 20-30ft.

It might be worth experimenting with ball position (a little forward or back in your stance) to see if that ups the consistency.

I agree! I’m hoping to let the technology shine over time and get things zeroed out more the more I get comfortable with the DF3. My goal is 1 degree or less. It’s not as easy as you’d think to be within 1 degree on every stroke. 
From the Exputt path graphic, it looks like things will get squared out more if I move the ball position forward about half a ball. I’m going to start there with my ball position. I am right eye dominant, so the ball position is probably farther back in my stance than I think. 

[Rearviewmirror]

2 hours ago, jbern said:

I agree! I’m hoping to let the technology shine over time and get things zeroed out more the more I get comfortable with the DF3. My goal is 1 degree or less. It’s not as easy as you’d think to be within 1 degree on every stroke. 
From the Exputt path graphic, it looks like things will get squared out more if I move the ball position forward about half a ball. I’m going to start there with my ball position. I am right eye dominant, so the ball position is probably farther back in my stance than I think. 

I think eye dominance plays a bigger role with ball position with LAB putters given the "square to the arc" design of the lie angle balancing. I've definitely seen big shifts in impact angle with relatively minor adjustments to setup.

[Rearviewmirror]

I came across this today and thought it was good: