FORUM MEMBER REVIEWS! Ben Hogan Ft. Worth 15 Irons/TK15 Wedges

[Mike Z]

I don't know why either. I thought it might be spin until I got the numbers. I checked lengths to spec. I don't have any way to check lofts of swing weights. I had launch angle but it wasn't pointing anything out.

 

It may well be the overall lengths. I wish I knew. Im thinking about getting them bent when I can figure out how I want to try to adjust away some of the gaps.

[Sschaffer24]

Have you looked at dynamic loft at Impact versus stated loft? You could be naturally delofting a club at impact or adding loft to another. That could cause the gap!

 

Nice job Mike!

[mizuno_lover]

Another great review MikeZ.  What I like about the reviews so far is that each of the reviewers has managed to bring out something different about their experience with these clubs.  Mike the data you added from the launch monitor was superb and painted a picture that definitely spoke to me.  It does concern me that those gaps appear the way they did given the nice even spread of lofts that got in your set.  By the looks of it we hit the ball similar distances.  And my index is on it'sway back down again.  The Mizzies are fighting hard to regain my affection too How did those yardages compare to your gamers before the Hogan's.  Are they similar?  Do you have a similar chart for your AP2's. 

 

Three of you have now pretty much given them top marks in the forgiveness stakes so I'm sold on that aspect but that loss of distance could be a deal breaker given the loss of distance I experienced when I went back to forged clubs.  The jacked up lofts of say Taylor Made RS2's is starting to appeal as well as the fact that only half the set is forged.  The other appealing factor is being able to hit them on the range before making a purchase.  Just thinking out loud here.  I'm not too fussed about learning how to hit the short irons and wedges again because that seems to be the case with every new set I've ever bought.  All in all a great job MikeZ thanks for your work mate, you've given me a lot to think about along with the other guys and I look forward to reading the follow up review in a few weeks

[revkev]

@Mizzie - Everything that we are reading is convincing me that the Hogans perform like SCOR.  Like you I'm most intrigued by the forgiveness facto particularly in the middle irons.  There could be a few things that account for Mike's yardage gap issues, some equipment, some swing related.  Here's what I know from SCOR: 

 

Since it was a by loft number not club number or wedge name I simply ordered to my Wilson specs including the shaft length (1/2 inch over for SCOR).  They came as ordered.  Apples to apples I launched the SCOR equivalent lower with a bit higher ball speed, more spin almost exactly the same total distance (perhaps a tad more for the SCOR).  The dispersion for the SCORs was tighter as well with misses being equally spread out around the target as opposed to falling into two quadrants for the Wilsons.

 

Remember you are ordering a loft not a club number or wedge letter.  You can jack the lofts as much as you might like and no one is going to know. Hogan recommends 4 degree gaps through the bag but perhaps Mike is not a 4 degree guy at a certain point in his bag.  I know that I've often had to tweak lofts in my set in order to achieve equal gapping generally needing to widen the gaps at the top end of the bag.

 

Here's what I'm toying with in my minds eye:

 

Current Bag:

SCOR 60,53,48,44

Wilson 9-5

Callaway 4 hybrid

 

 

New Bag

SCOR  60,56,52,48

Hogan  40,36,31,26

Callaway 4 hybrid

 

I'd end up keeping the 60 that I'm so effective with out of bunkers (SCORs are not traditional wedges where the big bounce wedge in the middle is the sand iron - I'm effective enough with the 60 or the 53 out of the sand but more so with the 60)  I'd also eliminate that crazy gap at the end of my bag and have a lofted club to hit 80 rather than a 3/4 53.  My swing speed is slower so the wider gaps in the middle of the bag make some sense - I don't have a gapping issue currently but this would just widen those gaps there a bit - I wouldn't necessarily have to swing as hard with my middle irons which is great.  I'm not in love with my hybrid but I hit it well enough for now.

 

Cost wise I would spend about 60 each on the SCORs on ebay (easy enough to find.)  The Hogans are going to be $700 plus for the two - I'd pick up 2 now, 2 later (I have several weddings this fall that would fund them.)

 

Any comments from our testers on that possibility - particularly one of the Mike's, SNC or Rookie?

[Jmikecpa]

Just got this from PGA Superstore this morning.

[Mike Z]

Thanks to all for the compliments.  Much appreciated.  To attempt to answer some of the questions:

 

The formula I came out with for my AP2's (based on LM data) was darn near 3 for each club.  And it was consistent.  There isn't a gap until going from the pitching wedge to the gap wedge.  There's no gap there now with the Hogans.  So while I don't have a similar chart I do have data in my head from a full winter averaging twice a week hitting on the same launch monitor and three years on the course with them.  So I stand by my assertion that there is a gap.  Could it be something with my swing?  Maybe - but if it is its sometheing peculiar to this set that didnt seem to affect me with the other clubs.

 

Distance - loft to loft they are shorter than my AP2's.  But to me that isnt an issue.  So I hit one more club.  I don't care about that and with so many loft choices I don't think that's a deal killer.

 

SkyTrak doesnt give me all of the same numbers that a Flightscope or Trackman gives.  If I had them I might be able to figure out the gap.

[Mike Z]

RevKev - I liked your thought about ading one at a time.  I don't think its a fit for all, but for what you are trying to do I think it makes sense.  My sense is that the Hogans do play like the SCORs and from that standpoint building down is going to be the way to go.  Having said that - what do you see in the reviews of the Hogans or have in expectation based on your experience with SCOR's that makes you think that replacing the Wilsons is the way you want to go?

[Sschaffer24]

That PGA Superstore email is AWESOME! Happy to see the exposure.

[revkev]

@ Mike - great question.  Here's what I learned testing two Wilson's vs. two SCORs head to head apples for apples for a two month period of time last summer (lots of shots - over 200 per club.) 

 

The SCORs have a tighter dispersion pattern, a circle as it were around a center point.  I would have an equal number of misses in each quadrant that I drew seemingly every time.  With the Wilsons my misses were either long left or short right - very little short left or long right.  It was fascinating.  I think that the offset on the short irons makes them more difficult to aim quite frankly - I tend to aim left - the short right stuff were mishits.  While I'm able to flight my Wilson's up and down it's easier with the SCORs and I also find it easier to grip down and take a bit off.

 

Now I'm reading reviews that are saying the short irons and into the middle irons play like the wedges.  It's hard for me to ignore that, if it's the case I could really have something.  And as I've stated repeatedly I don't like the look of the Wilsons even if I'm satisfied with their performance. 

 

I just called Renegar and they are sending me instructions for the return of that wedge.  They were awesome BTW - makes me wish I had liked their club better.  I think it is a great club for someone who has to deal with high rough around the green - it's not so great on full shots though and I was looking for that.

[Mike Z]

Then I definitely agree with the one at a time approach.  Go until you don't see a benefit.  Interesting point about the Renegar wedge.  The thick rough around our greens is what was giving me fits early with the Hogans.  With my old wedges I used to open them up a little to get them to slide and not grab almost insuring i strike off the upper portion of the face.  Came out predictably dead.  The Hogans come out of that situation hot.  Kind of used to it now and I handle that by playing a higher loft than I would have otherwise.

[revkev]

That's exactly how I handle it MikeZ - I use the 60 a lot.  The courses in my area tend to not grow the rough too high though - Bermuda and high equal nightmare - you should see what JaxbeachPacker fan has to deal with at TPC.  It's much worse than the actual tournament because it's very easy to grow rough here in the summer months.

 

I'm honestly going to start with the first two once I get the Renegar credit - If anyone is interested I have a set of 5 rocket bladz PW-6 iron with steel fiber i80 R flexes in them.  The steel fibers play strong so an R flex is closer to an S - I've kept them around because of those shafts.  I'm looking for the price of 1 Hogan for these. The shafts are more than worth it - hardly used. 

 

PM me if you are - I'll throw them into the classifieds in a couple of days.

[Sschaffer24]

Rev I wish you all the best with your sale, and I'm happy to hear you're joining us with the Hogans.

 

Please let us all know what your experience is like!

[apprenti23]

Had an hour to kill, so went to the superstore today and saw these bad boys...

 

I'll admit I'm quite glad I didn't get picked to be a part of this testing. I can't STAND the way these look at address. My god, everything is so round and looks like there's heaps off offset.

 

Hope they have a nice personality and have little family money because "That dog won't hunt."

[alfriday101]

On the issue of lofts and iron numbers:

 

When deciding on irons, I looked first at the most lofted club I hit well.  For me that is a 59/60 degree.  My current most lofted club is 59 degrees.  I then went to the other end of the bag.  The old 24/38 rule works well for me.  I have a TM 5 iron and 4 iron.  The 4 iron (20) hasn't been in my bag for a long while.  I change out the 5 iron (23 degrees) and a 5 hybrid depending on the course I'm playing and conditions.  Most of the time, I use the 5 hybrid (25 degrees).  

 

In selecting lofts, then, I basically wanted to cover the range of lofts from 24 degrees to 60. That is the set I ordered.  24, 28, 32, 36,...60.  I plan to continue changing out the 24 with my 5 hybrid.  I should now have all distances covered from 200 yards to 80 with these irons.  

 

Regarding gaps.  When I did my fitting, (described in a previous post) I hit clubs four degrees apart and the pro checked my swing speed and ball speed to see if it worked with 4 degree lofts differences.  He mentioned that the clubs (any clubs) may need to be bent to keep the yardage gaps consistent as people do swing longer clubs different than mid clubs and from short irons.  That is an option with the Hogans and most other clubs.  Because of swing differences, truly fitted club specs may differ from short to long irons.  He mentioned he uses Pings and actually has different color dots in his irons.  He thought my club angle did not change significantly from short to long irons so the same loft/lie setting should work through the bag.  But they can be changed if there is an issue.   

[sncgolf03]

Had an hour to kill, so went to the superstore today and saw these bad boys...

 

I'll admit I'm quite glad I didn't get picked to be a part of this testing. I can't STAND the way these look at address. My god, everything is so round and looks like there's heaps off offset.

 

Hope they have a nice personality and have little family money because "That dog won't hunt."

Interesting! Everyone sees beauty differently. I guess I didn't think there was that much offset. What irons do you game/like the look of?

[Undershooter]

Interesting! Everyone sees beauty differently. I guess I didn't think there was that much offset. What irons do you game/like the look of?

I somewhat remember seeing some type of mb in his witb. Possibly Titleist. Could be wrong though.

[revkev]

He's a pro - lots of offset to him is quite different than the rest of us.   He should look at my C100's - he'd puke.

[apprenti23]

Interesting! Everyone sees beauty differently. I guess I didn't think there was that much offset. What irons do you game/like the look of?

Let me clarify here because I do like they way these irons look! Everything from finish to fill and they look great on the rack and from the back. However, the roundness of the head shapes (namely in the short irons and wedges) just looks like spoons to me. I am sure that the offset on these is minimal; however, the roundness and way the neck blends gives an appearance that there is quite a bit of offset for smaller heads. Very unappealing to me. The 3/4/5 irons in these look fantastic and I'm sure they are soft as butter. Would love to see how the perimeter weighting affects playability and forgiveness, but there's no way I'd bag these. Just can't stand how the short irons look at address (what I hit most often).

 

This year I started off gaming 714mbs then went back to an old set of 712cbs now I have one round with vapor pro combos. Jury is still out... Kind of want PXG's...

[Sschaffer24]

I'm happy we have another view to hear in this thread. Did you hit them at all to check for forgiveness/feel? Or did the look at address turn you off so much that you felt it wasn't worthwhile?

 

I'd be curious to hear someone with your skill level to give some feedback on that stuff.

 

That being said, all of the conversations about lofts make total sense. Mike do you have a fitter nearby that could do a gap test for you on their launch monitor and work with your set to try and nail down a reason and possibly close those gaps for you?

[Sschaffer24]

You basically answered my question in your post there apprenti. I had mine typed before refreshing. Haha.

[Mike Z]

Had an hour to kill, so went to the superstore today and saw these bad boys...

 

I'll admit I'm quite glad I didn't get picked to be a part of this testing. I can't STAND the way these look at address. My god, everything is so round and looks like there's heaps off offset.

 

Hope they have a nice personality and have little family money because "That dog won't hunt."

I'd love to know what you game as well.  Probably has a lot to do with your perceptions.  Not being argumentataive, but I would like to understand where you are coming from.

 

I had none of those thoughts when looking down at them.  Other than the top line being a little rounded making it look larger than it is, I don't see what you see.Then again that's probably why there are so many different looks on so many different clubs.  One man's trash is another man's treasure..

 

Here's an address position shot of the 30* in case it helps the discussion.

 

[Mike Z]

Answered my questions too.  And I can see where you are coming from.  The wedges do look a little rounded.  I have preferred a more rounded look.  

 

I have a vokey 60* that I have played two rounds with and didnt like the look so its now a paperweight with a long handle.  Great feeling great performing club - as all Vokeys are - I just saw a triangle when I looked down.  Its obviously not a triangle, but because its different than my preferences, what I see is exagerated.

[apprenti23]

It that is a shot "at address" then how the heck do you stand??? haha! Maybe it's the mat that is throwing me off.

 

Show off some proper pics with the shorter irons say sub 35/40 to show the folks so they can see what i'm saying.

[Mike Z]

It that is a shot "at address" then how the heck do you stand??? haha! Maybe it's the mat that is throwing me off.

 

Show off some proper pics with the shorter irons say sub 35/40 to show the folks so they can see what i'm saying.

Since you asked....   I stood with the phone in one hand trying like heck to hit the the picture button while attempting not to drop the phone while holding it away from my eyes far enough so I could tell what the pcture preview looked like .. and in the other hand holding the club trying to simulate an address position with the club!!!  Professional photgrapher I am not... 

 

I will get pics of a few higher lofted clubs next chance I get and post them up. 

[revkev]

I agree that in the end some of this is subjective - Having written that I think there is a great deal of difference between what a Pro sees, what a single digit handicapper sees, what a mid-capper and a high capper see.  Doesn't mean that we don't all enjoy the game - it's just different.

 

There are plenty of hazards that I don't notice when I approach a hole - A high capper might or a pro might - but I don't because they aren't in play for me.  Likewise my eye sees certain things when I address the ball - frankly what it sees is really not that important in regards to the club - I have issues with the lie at times that's another matter for another thread - the club face just isn't that important to me - I've bagged all sorts of different clubs - I prefer a smaller face but if I start hitting something with a larger face well - I'm happy other than my wedges - I really need them to be a bit smaller - shape - I just don't notice it that much.

[apprenti23]

That's why they make Prius', Camrys, and pickup trucks. Everyone likes different things.

[Jmikecpa]

My review is up

 

http://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/13981-forum-member-reviews-ben-hogan-ft-worth-15-ironstk15-wedges/?p=168616

[Jmikecpa]

To me these are the Amy Schumer of irons....a little thick in some areas and a bit to round in others, but overall not bad looking at all.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

To me these are the Amy Schumer of irons....a little thick in some areas and a bit to round in others, but overall not bad looking at all.

 

I'm down with that 

 

[Mike Z]

I volunteer to hit that for, you know, the sake of comparison.......