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Why can’t every tour stop adopt “Open Conditions�


Gg Owen

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How tough would it be to let a course grow in more before a tour stop? Let the rough grow up and let deep rough become heather. And maybe allow the fairways to shrink in slightly.

 

Wouldn't the less up keep and reduced fairway size save money? At the same time challenge the players without talks of regulating the ball

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No one wants to deal with those conditions every week from a fan perspective and the players. While it may cut down on course maintenance the courses they are playing aren't worried about money.

 

Also playin those conditions every week takes away the mystique, thrill or whatever adjective to describe what is known as the truest test in golf.

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I like to see diifferent courses and conditions. More variety should bring umin a variety of different winners.

 

I will say i dont like ti hear whining about how tough a course is on tour. The whole field plays it regaardless.

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No one wants to deal with those conditions every week from a fan perspective and the players. While it may cut down on course maintenance the courses they are playing aren't worried about money.

 

Also playin those conditions every week takes away the mystique, thrill or whatever adjective to describe what is known as the truest test in golf.

Wrong, make the courses harder for the babies!

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It wouldn't be tough,  Just need to cut or not cut the grass.   The problem would be with the greens since "open conditions" is generally very traumatic.   

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Snowflakes should not play golf then, hey check out the LPGA!

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25 UNDER EVERYTIME!

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I would have never started playing if every tournament was like this. It's brutal, almost not fun to watch.

My local executive course can kick my butt many a time.Agree with you. Doing this would set a precedence for all courses to do this.

Keep it in the short stuff

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25 UNDER EVERYTIME!

Far from the truth and there's 70+ pros who miss the cut every week, I doubt they think it's easy

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Dumbest idea ever.

Agreed RP. Totally unwatchable. My vote is to let the PGA have their way and totally screw with the players like this once a year...At this event only. It's after all a "tradition like no other" to coin a phrase from another famous event that shall not be impeeded on either... :ph34r: IMHO :P

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Wrong, make the courses harder for the babies!

You think tour courses are easy. Have you played one during tournament week? I have. Trust me the rough and green speeds are not what you and I see at our local clubs or muni's on the weekends.

 

 

 

 

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Rob and Topline have a point. The weekly stops may not be as brutal as the U.S. Open but they ain't anywhere near as easy as some people seem to think. The Open isn't near as wild as it looks either. I enjoy watching a tough setup but I do think the usga tends to go loopy around this time of year on some things.

 

Ever noticed the call for brutal setups is always from the guys who can't play them? I know I've done it

 

 

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I've watched almost every tour event televised the last five years. Some courses just aren't designed for USGA conditions. It requires a unique course to hold a US Open venue. The Torrey Pines and Pebble beach yes. The Harbor Town or Waste Management a huge no

 

So many factors layout;region;annual weather;grass type.Possibly five courses on tour have what it takes to host an Open

Keep it in the short stuff

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Consider how much manpower it takes to get a course in the condition it needs to be in for a US Open. It's cost prohibitive to even think of it. Plus many tour courses are simply not strong enough to host a US Open.

 

Even though I'm generally bully on the PGA tour courses, they aren't all Shinnecock so even with tough conditions it would not be the same.

 

 

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Rob and Topline have a point. The weekly stops may not be as brutal as the U.S. Open but they ain't anywhere near as easy as some people seem to think. The Open isn't near as wild as it looks either. I enjoy watching a tough setup but I do think the usga tends to go loopy around this time of year on some things.

 

Ever noticed the call for brutal setups is always from the guys who can't play them? I know I've done it

 

 

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This and others like it are spot on.

 

The estimated course rating on an average tour stop based on set up is between 76 and 77. That's what a scratch golfer would shoot there 1/4 of the time - let the reader understand.

 

I don't necessarily agree that it's not as wild as it looks out there for the US Open. The USGA tries to push courses to the max and have at times gone past it with Shinnecock 2004 being the most notable. Although Winged Foot back in 79 made that look like a walk in the park - I think plus 7 was the winning score.

 

It's pretty wild but that's the only way to reward a fairways, greens, take your medicine approach which is what they are after.

 

It's looking like this year will be a classic in regards to the four majors. The Masters rewards well executed boldness, the US Open the above, the Open shot making creativity and execution through the green and the PGA functions like a super regular tour event.

 

That's a great package - its why so few players have succeeded in winning all four. It also sets their games apart.

 

 

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This and others like it are spot on.

 

The estimated course rating on an average tour stop based on set up is between 76 and 77. That's what a scratch golfer would shoot there 1/4 of the time - let the reader understand.

 

I don't necessarily agree that it's not as wild as it looks out there for the US Open. The USGA tries to push courses to the max and have at times gone past it with Shinnecock 2004 being the most notable. Although Winged Foot back in 79 made that look like a walk in the park - I think plus 7 was the winning score.

 

It's pretty wild but that's the only way to reward a fairways, greens, take your medicine approach which is what they are after.

 

It's looking like this year will be a classic in regards to the four majors. The Masters rewards well executed boldness, the US Open the above, the Open shot making creativity and execution through the green and the PGA functions like a super regular tour event.

 

That's a great package - its why so few players have succeeded in winning all four. It also sets their games apart.

 

 

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Well said

 

 

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Nah, half of those guys would probably quit :P

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For me, I can't stand the US Open. Guys can't make a run unless they water/slow down the course. I thought Fleetwood's run was epic but it's wouldn't have happened if the USGA didn't water the course as much as they did. Saturday was brutal to watch. Guys hitting it to 7' from the pin only to have it roll off into a trap or 15 yards off the green. When the good shots start getting punished, it becomes ridiculous. 

 

Think about guys making a run on the back nine at the Masters. That's a lot of fun to watch. Do you see that at the US Open? Very rarely. It's a matter of who can hang on the longest and screw up the least. 

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I think the above quote sums up the US Open very well.

Some players and fans don't like the US Open. Other players and fans love the US Open. So it seems to be a subject of personal preference.

My own perspective is that the US Open is the one event where par is a good score, sometimes even par or over par is the winning score, and that having one event per year like this is a good thing.

I like the Masters , British Open, and PGA Championship as well. Each one of the Majors has its own identity and character.

Nothing with par being a good score.  But if the USGA hadn't "manufactured" decent conditions on Sunday, nobody would have been close to par.   Northing wrong with the way the course played Thursday and Friday.   But they had to push it over the edge on Saturday, which is hard to believe they would be so shortsighted knowing what happened in 2004.   But I guess DJ being at -4 was too much for the Blue Coats to take, and they had to show everyone who is boss and didn't set it up normally.    

 

It amazes me why they don't listen to or take the innput from the staff that sets this course up the other 51 weeks of the year.   They obviously know the local conditions and trends better than the USGA. 

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Nothing with par being a good score. But if the USGA hadn't "manufactured" decent conditions on Sunday, nobody would have been close to par. Northing wrong with the way the course played Thursday and Friday. But they had to push it over the edge on Saturday, which is hard to believe they would be so shortsighted knowing what happened in 2004. But I guess DJ being at -4 was too much for the Blue Coats to take, and they had to show everyone who is boss and didn't set it up normally.

 

It amazes me why they don't listen to or take the innput from the staff that sets this course up the other 51 weeks of the year. They obviously know the local conditions and trends better than the USGA.

I have no doubt the usga didn't want to see dj just run away with the win even if there was a chance someone else might have an even better round to push him. The usga is obsessed with pushing the limits and imo punishing the players instead of showcasing their skills. Good/great shots need to be rewarded not punished. They don't learn lessons well and 2004 to this week is a perfect example. They choose to push the limit and got burnt again on this course then went almost to the extreme in the other direction for yesterday. I enjoyed watching fleetwood go low and koepka having a good day. They could have maybe not gone as soft yesterday but I much prefer yesterday to Saturday

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Course set up and maintenance costs money.  Period. Even if you are letting the grass grow, you need to constantly water that grass and tend to it so it does not allow mold, or other diseases to take over.

 

And every course does not adopt US Open settings for multiple reasons that have been laid out eloquently above.  

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I have no doubt the usga didn't want to see dj just run away with the win even if there was a chance someone else might have an even better round to push him. The usga is obsessed with pushing the limits and imo punishing the players instead of showcasing their skills. Good/great shots need to be rewarded not punished. They don't learn lessons well and 2004 to this week is a perfect example. They choose to push the limit and got burnt again on this course then went almost to the extreme in the other direction for yesterday. I enjoyed watching fleetwood go low and koepka having a good day. They could have maybe not gone as soft yesterday but I much prefer yesterday to Saturday

Agree here 100%

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The US Open has long had the tradition of being more challenging than normal associated with it. That does make it a particularly fun venue.  Not seeing a leaderboard bleeding red is certainly a welcomed change.  It seems like so many tournaments now are well into double digit below par numbers.  While this supports the "Live Under Par" slogan, it almost seems no challenge at all from our (mere mortals) perspective.  Seeing the best struggle to just shoot par is good. "Hey Mr. PGA pro, welcome to our world".

 

As to the OP's question about making all courses play this tough, I'm not sure I'd want that.  Shinnecock on Friday (or was it Saturday) did seem to be like crazy golf.  A bit more difficult to perhaps keep finishing totals to single digit red numbers would be better.  It seems to me that it's distance off the tee that is principally responsible for the typical low scoring.  It has become a "bash & gouge" sequence for many with off first cut second shots simply not being the disadvantage as they were in the past. Certainly making ruff thicker and higher might help, but maybe also some more challenging landing area bunkers.

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Part of the reason second cut rough is less difficult is that they are hitting shot irons or wedges rather than mid irons. When the average driving distance was 260 a 440 yard par 4 was driver, 5 iron - it's tough to hit a 5 iron out of thick rough and keep it on the green.

 

Now it's driver 9 iron or wedge. Those clubs come out of the rough much easier than 5 iron.

 

 

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Part of the reason second cut rough is less difficult is that they are hitting shot irons or wedges rather than mid irons. When the average driving distance was 260 a 440 yard par 4 was driver, 5 iron - it's tough to hit a 5 iron out of thick rough and keep it on the green.

 

Now it's driver 9 iron or wedge. Those clubs come out of the rough much easier than 5 iron.

 

 

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That's a fact, but I can't get out of that stuff with a D.R. Trimmer/Mower.  It simply amazes me the stuff they hit out off and not just barely.  Maybe they just need to keep lengthening the courses.

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Snowflakes should not play golf then, hey check out the LPGA!

Do you play any competitive golf or just like to talk crap like you know what you're talking about?

I'd doubt you'd break 100 on tour set up. Let alone a US Open.

 

I do think the regular tour events play too soft but they shouldn't play like a US Open. Firm and fast is the ticket, not insane.

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Probably a little later to the discussion here but I'll throw my hat in. I don't care much for the US Open. I want to watch great shots and aggressive play. That's why I love watching the Ryder and Presidents cup. Those guys attack the pins and play great golf. If I wanted to see someone shoot in the 80s I'd look in a mirror lol.

 

Some people like to see the pros struggle but I guess I am on the other side of the fence. I want to see records fall. When the mile dash record was broken they didn't change everything and make the runners run in mud.

 

Watching the US open, I always get the feeling its a glass is half empty kind of tournament. Who can mess up the least wins. That seems to be the mindset of the players as well, based on their interviews during the tournament.

 

 

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