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Has this been done (wedge use survey)?

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Awesome topic. I use the 50 and 54 around the green pretty evenly. It really depends on the shot I'm faced with. If there's nothing in the way and it's relatively flat, I'll use the 50, lean it forward a bit, and hit a low checker that trickles to the hole. Almost anything else gets the 54.


Driver: :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 220 9.5° Project X HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 60 6.0
3 Wood: :cobra-small: SpeedZone 14.5° Project X HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 6.0
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 19° Fujikura Speeder Evolution HB Stiff
Irons: :mizuno-small: JPX 919 Tour 4-PW Project X LZ 6.0
Wedges: Edison Forged 49°, 53°, 57°
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Learned to play in 70's with just pw and sw inside 100 yards. Played by feel and creativity as I tell my sons. Always taught to get ball rolling early as others have noted in this thread. I do carry as lw (since late 90's) but only use when my intended line of flight is obstructed from me getting the ball to roll early. I rotate 8, pw and sw for most of my around the green chipping/pitching when putter is not able to be used. 

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10 hours ago, cnosil said:

I am not sure you asked the right question to get this answer.   You talked about greenside shots in your original post;   you won't use a "Pelz" approach for greenside shots and depending on what you are trying to do and your approach it may be.  chipping around the green and finesse shots are typically pretty short swings.   As you start getting into distance wedges,  you need to figure out how to control distances;  some will follow the PELZ system; which people will call mechanical, and others will say they "feel" the distance.  I would guess that they have over time determined distances based on a pelz approach and tweak the length of swing.   

I think your question is more about the distances that are shorter than their most lofted club.   Do players use one club from those distances or do they have multiple distances associated with multiple clubs.   For example, your most lofted clubs standard distance is 80 yards,  how does the player hit a 70, 60, 50, 45, 20, etc. yard shot.  

 

9 hours ago, Grit Golf said:

Yup, that’s what I meant!

I thought the question was about greenside shots, not 70 and in.  

As I said, I use 60 most of the time from greenside.  I vary the shot by the lie and distance needed, either medium height or low.  I don't hit high 60 wedge shots unless there is a good reason to.

70 and in shots are completely different for me.  I will use progressively longer wedges trying to maintain the same rhythm.  I guess I am one of those that "feel" the distance, because I'm not mechanical like the PELZ approach.


We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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I have more of a Pelz system where I know the distances for each "type" of hit for each wedge. Based off distances, going short to longer, my club selection goes 60, 56, 52, PW, 48, 60, 56, 56, 48, 52. That takes me from 25 yards with a 1/2 swing 60 all the way to 90 yards with a full swing 52.

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At this point, I’m curious about the way all partial wedge shots get divvied up. I’m curious about greenside - that’s where it seems people pick a favorite club. But I’m also curious about all partial shots from 20-70, because there are different philosophies there as well.

Being able to pair handicap data against what wedges are used for which kinds of shots would be interesting to see. I love the comments here, putting Arccos or shotscope data to it would be even more interesting.

Sorry if the OP wasn’t clear, I didn’t have a crystal clear thought in mind when I posted, but the group has sharpened it up for sure!


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“He’s a Cinderella story. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac… It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole!” — Carl Spackler

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At this point, I’m curious about the way all partial wedge shots get divvied up. I’m curious about greenside - that’s where it seems people pick a favorite club. But I’m also curious about all partial shots from 20-70, because there are different philosophies there as well.

Being able to pair handicap data against what wedges are used for which kinds of shots would be interesting to see. I love the comments here, putting Arccos or shotscope data to it would be even more interesting.

Sorry if the OP wasn’t clear, I didn’t have a crystal clear thought in mind when I posted, but the group has sharpened it up for sure!


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Partial wedge shots for me are based off distances. If I see a certain distance I know the general club and swing to attack with. This for one gives me more confidence on "feely" shots which I think is sometimes half the battle. It also gives me very few true gaps from 100 in. At the end of the day though it all comes down to what gets you closest to the hole, period.

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19 hours ago, PMookie said:

I grew-up learning to golf in the 70s, and my Dad taught me what he was taught which you see Nicklaus, Palmer, etc all teach: get the ball rolling as quickly as possible. I use that teaching to this day. If I’m on the fringe I’m generally putting. If it’s fringe-length but 5-10 feet off the green, I’ll probably use a 7/8/9 iron. Most courses here in the Mississippi Delta have greens that are elevated 3-4 feet just for drainage, so on these courses we get a lot of uphill lies. In those situations I’ll use my PW or 54*, just depends on how fluffy the lie is.

I played with a guy recently that’s my age that played college golf in Oklahoma. He uses his 60* for everything, but just moves the handle around to adjust his loft. He’s magical with it. I can’t do that..... I just stick with what I’ve done for 40 years.

 

Exactly how I do it and I learned the game in the same era as you did. Anytime I can get that putter in my hands I am going to do so. My work horse wedge has always been the 56* though. Like you I have a friend I grew up with that is magical with the 60*.

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4 wood Adams Tight Lies 

20* Hybrid Adams Boxer Ozik Matrix R shaft

24* Hybrid Adams A 10-OS Pro Launch Red R

Irons 5 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts

SW- Macgregor LRA 56* S-400

Putter 1997 Santa Fe rusty as heck

 

 

 

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Greenside I'm almost exclusively using my 58 (bent to 59).  That said, yesterday I found myself over a very long chip (I was just off the fringe on a tight lie but the pin was tucked in the back) and I feel like I should have gone back and gotten my 54 (bent to 55).  I had to put so much "oomph" into the pitch to get it back there that I put more spin on it and it checked up way too early. 

80 yards and in it's all a judgment call.  Usually at 80 yards I could hit a "full" 58, but I don't like hitting full wedge shots and would prefer to flight in a 54.  Anything below 70 and it will almost inevitably be the 58 though.

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FW: :tour-edge: CBX 119 3w, 15,  Project X Evenflow Blue 75g Stiff

Hybrid::tour-edge:CBX 119 3H, 18, Project X Evenflow Blue 85g Stiff

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I want to mention two drills/games that I have found very helpful for sharpening the short game.  Each drill/game takes about 15 minutes.

 

1.  Green side practice.  Par 18, or Par 27, depending on skill level.  Take one ball, your putter and chipping club or clubs.  Play 9 "holes".  Give yourself 3 easy shots, 3 medium and 3 hard shots to a target from varying spots around the green.  Vary the order from easy to medium to hard, so you don't hit three easy shots in a row.  Use a score card and record your results.     

Play each hole just like you would on the course.  The object is to get the ball up and down each time, or to get down in three if you have a higher handicap or a bit rusty after a layoff.  Hit your shot, record the distance the ball ends up from the hole, and then putt out.  Keep track of putts.  If using multiple clubs, be sure to record what club you used on the shot. Move on and play from a second location.  Rinse and repeat for 9 holes.  

To help guide which club you should be using, try playing the game multiple times, each time with a different club.  Mark your spots around the green with tees and play the first 9 with your go to club, then play again with a lower lofted iron and again with a higher lofted iron.  You can do this 3 or 4 times in an hour and you will have hard data when finished as to which club gets you closest to the hole, or which club has the potential to get you closest with a bit of practice.

 

2.  The "Cone of Contention" Game.  This comes from "Attention: The Secret to You Playing Great Golf," by Karl Morris.  (Karl co-authored "The Lost Art of Putting" and "The Lost Art of Playing Golf"  This book was written prior to the Lost Art books.)   

 

Start from any position from 30 to 75 yards .  "Follow this process:  1.  Stand and look at the distance.  Try to gauge it in your mind--45 yards, 47 yards, go on and make a guess.  2.  Now use a rangefinder and find out exactly what the distance is.  How close did you get.  Not very, if you are like most people.  This is going to be important later.  

 

"Now, the drill is this on each shot:

1.  Guess the distance.  Say it out loud to commit to your guess.

2.  Actually get the distance from your rangefinder. 

3.  Feel the shot with a practice swing.

4.  Play the shot.  

5.  Note if the shot is within the magic 6ft area, and mark down the result.

6.  Move on to the next random distance."

 

Morris recommends doing this with 10 balls.  I do it with 9 balls so I can record the results easily on a score card.  Morris states:  "I am being deadly serious when I say if you have the discipline to do this two or three times a week, you will elevate your game to a level of scoring you didn't think possible.  This for me, is the crown jewel of all practice games I have used over the years.  Just 15 minutes, three times a week."

 

Variations are to play the game 3 or four times using a different club for each game, or to hit three balls from each spot, each shot with a different club so you can see how club choice affects results.  

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

 

 

 

 

  

       

  

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Used to use 60* and was terrible around the greens, started using my 56* and people want me to join their scramble team because of what I do with it! I really feel if it wasnt for my 56* I'd have a much higher handicap

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Hybrid:   :titelist-small: TS2 19* Hzrdus Smoke Black Stiff shaft

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Wedges:  :cleveland-small: RTX4 52* 56*

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Almost all of the higher handicap players I play with use too high lofted clubs on almost every shot around the greens.  I will not offer advise to anyone unless asked but if I'm asked I usually tell them that.  I had one of my 12 handy guys ask about improving his short game, he was a SW or LW only player around the greens, I told him that and he's improved quite a bit.  I don't get it, I'm thinking that these guys picked up the game later in life and were never taught a true short game maybe?  If you watch professionals, most will use an 8 or 9 iron if they can and hit a bump and run chip.  The greens they play on are so fast that you don't see this quite as much as you did in the past but most still do it when they can.  Also, there are exceptions like Phil that use the same wedge around the greens on every shot, most amateurs should not do this.

 

My philosophy is to assess the lie, then use the lowest lofted club that you can get away with on each shot that, after picking a landing spot, will stop by the time it gets to the hole.  I think there is always the exception, maybe the guy that routinely practices every shot with his normal SW and uses shaft lean to de-loft the club.  You really have to put in work to get this kind of short game.

 

On wedge shots less than the length of your highest lofted wedge, I use both my SW(54*) or LW(58*).  I try to never hit a wedge at 100%, 90% is the ceiling, which I believe is good advice for everyone.  Find out your 100% of your highest lofted club, take 90% of that and that should be your full LW, IMO.  I then use a approximate percentage for these type wedge shots.  If I'm hitting a shot from 50 yards, I know my max LW(90%) is 90 yards and my SW(90%) is 110 yards.  I'd hit a little over 50% LW or hit a little under 50% SW low spinner.  It depends on the amount of green you have to work with and how quick the ball needs to stop. 

 

 

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3W:  Taylormade '16 M2, Speeder 661 X

3:  Callaway X-forged UT 21*

4-P:  Callaway X-Forged, Modus 3 120 - S

Wedges:  50* - Callaway Apex Pro 19, 54* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black, 58* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black

Putter:  currently Odyssey Works V-Line Versa CB - 36"

Ball - Bridgestone Tour B X

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14 minutes ago, KatoGolfer said:

Almost all of the higher handicap players I play with use too high lofted clubs on almost every shot around the greens.  I will not offer advise to anyone unless asked but if I'm asked I usually tell them that.  I had one of my 12 handy guys ask about improving his short game, he was a SW or LW only player around the greens, I told him that and he's improved quite a bit.  I don't get it, I'm thinking that these guys picked up the game later in life and were never taught a true short game maybe?  If you watch professionals, most will use an 8 or 9 iron if they can and hit a bump and run chip.  The greens they play on are so fast that you don't see this quite as much as you did in the past but most still do it when they can.  Also, there are exceptions like Phil that use the same wedge around the greens on every shot, most amateurs should not do this.

 

My philosophy is to assess the lie, then use the lowest lofted club that you can get away with on each shot that, after picking a landing spot, will stop by the time it gets to the hole.  I think there is always the exception, maybe the guy that routinely practices every shot with his normal SW and uses shaft lean to de-loft the club.  You really have to put in work to get this kind of short game.

 

On wedge shots less than the length of your highest lofted wedge, I use both my SW(54*) or LW(58*).  I try to never hit a wedge at 100%, 90% is the ceiling, which I believe is good advice for everyone.  Find out your 100% of your highest lofted club, take 90% of that and that should be your full LW, IMO.  I then use a approximate percentage for these type wedge shots.  If I'm hitting a shot from 50 yards, I know my max LW(90%) is 90 yards and my SW(90%) is 110 yards.  I'd hit a little over 50% LW or hit a little under 50% SW low spinner.  It depends on the amount of green you have to work with and how quick the ball needs to stop. 

 

 

With full respect to your handicap being significantly better than mine, I can't say I agree with much of this, but I'm open to input from others?

I agree that a higher handicap player will find 7-iron bump and run shots to be easier to execute.  But every pro tournament I watch their using high-lofted wedges around the green rather than bump and run shots.  I'll try and find the clip, but Spieth did a video with Michael Breed a couple years ago and talked about almost exclusively using his 60, and controlling spin versus run-out by ball position and club face manipulation. I try to do the same and chipping is easily the strength of my game, because I've learned to manipulate the dynamic loft and ball positioning.

Again, I'm not discounting your own experience, but I certainly don't agree with your observation of tour player club choice around the green.  Seems to me to be the exact opposite of what you've posted.


Driver: :honma:TR20 460, Vizard 60g Stiff

FW: :tour-edge: CBX 119 3w, 15,  Project X Evenflow Blue 75g Stiff

Hybrid::tour-edge:CBX 119 3H, 18, Project X Evenflow Blue 85g Stiff

Driving Iron: :mizuno-small: MP-20 HMB 3i, UST Mamiya recoil ES 780 F3

Iron: :mizuno-small:JPX 919 Forged 4- GW, Project X 6.0

Wedges::vokey-small:SM7 54 S Grind, 58 M Grind

Putter: :scotty-cameron-1: California Monterey 1.5, Superstroke Flatso 1.0 grip

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Tested the Honma TR20 460 driver

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24 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

With full respect to your handicap being significantly better than mine, I can't say I agree with much of this, but I'm open to input from others?

I agree that a higher handicap player will find 7-iron bump and run shots to be easier to execute.  But every pro tournament I watch their using high-lofted wedges around the green rather than bump and run shots.  I'll try and find the clip, but Spieth did a video with Michael Breed a couple years ago and talked about almost exclusively using his 60, and controlling spin versus run-out by ball position and club face manipulation. I try to do the same and chipping is easily the strength of my game, because I've learned to manipulate the dynamic loft and ball positioning.

Again, I'm not discounting your own experience, but I certainly don't agree with your observation of tour player club choice around the green.  Seems to me to be the exact opposite of what you've posted.

If that's what you see that's what you see.  I did say that the greens are so fast on the Tour now that you don't see bump and runs nearly as often as you used to and also said that for you to use exclusively one club you have to put in a lot of time to perfect it.  Most amateurs don't have that kind of time, just don't put in that time or are not capable of perfecting it. 

The best players I play with use a variety of clubs around the greens depending the on the situation.  I'd say that a normal SW is still the choice for a majority of chips around greens but for players to never use an 8 iron bump and run EVER is a mistake.  I play with a couple 15+ handys that use exclusively a SW and they struggle mightily.  Different areas of the country could also be different as well, or even the course that you play most of the time.  If you have shaved down areas all around your greens you can use putter alot more than I can with my heavy tall thick grass.  Grass around Florida greens is much different than grass around Minnesota greens.  On smaller greens it will be harder to use the bump and run but if you play on big greens those shots come about more often.  If you play in Europe you will see shots around the greens from hybrid to LW and just about every shot in between.

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3W:  Taylormade '16 M2, Speeder 661 X

3:  Callaway X-forged UT 21*

4-P:  Callaway X-Forged, Modus 3 120 - S

Wedges:  50* - Callaway Apex Pro 19, 54* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black, 58* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black

Putter:  currently Odyssey Works V-Line Versa CB - 36"

Ball - Bridgestone Tour B X

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60* for most shots around the green, manipulate dynamic loft with either ball position or opening/closing face 

56* is usually only in bunkers, dunno why i have trouble getting it out with the 60* might be a mental thing lol but i also use for full shots from around 75 yards 

52* is for shots around 90-100 yards from green full shot


Driver : :callaway-small: Rogue SZ Evenflow 6.0 Stiff

Hybrids: :callaway-small: XR Project X Stiff (3&4)

Irons : :callaway-small: Mavrik True Temper Elevate 95 Stiff Steel (5-PW,AW)

Wedges : Bombtech 52,56,60

Putter : :taylormade-small:Spider Red

Bag : Datrek lightweight cart bag

Ball : :callaway-small: Chromesoft Truvis / Taylormade TP5 Pix

Rangefinder : TecTecTec DXLS

SoCal, USA

Right handed HDCP 20

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On 6/6/2020 at 10:37 AM, ballplayer002003 said:

In years past I would use my 56 for EVERYTHING 90 yards and in.  The past year I have been using more PW, 9 irons and 52 for chipping and various types of shots trying to control the trajectory a bit better.  I hit some good shots and bad shots but I'm still learning them all.

I was struggling with a 9i for the chip shots and started looking at the 7i as I chunked it less. Added a choked down the grips and more putting stroke and practice has had good results from the fringe but I swapped out traditional wedges for hybrid wedges because of thin or fat disappointing hits (should be called misses since they do miss the green usually).  More confidence with a hybrid wedge (59* Lovett and 56* Worx) that won't bury when thumped into the ground at contact and actually getting decent loft and shots that drop and stop on the green.  Lots still to learn but on the right track.


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10 hours ago, EasyPutter said:

I was struggling with a 9i for the chip shots and started looking at the 7i as I chunked it less. Added a choked down the grips and more putting stroke and practice has had good results from the fringe but I swapped out traditional wedges for hybrid wedges because of thin or fat disappointing hits (should be called misses since they do miss the green usually).  More confidence with a hybrid wedge (59* Lovett and 56* Worx) that won't bury when thumped into the ground at contact and actually getting decent loft and shots that drop and stop on the green.  Lots still to learn but on the right track.

I recently watched a YouTube video of James Robinson and one of his buddies.  They had a chipping contest.  James uses a traditional wedge while his buddy used a 3 or 4 hybrid.  They hit a series of 3 shots each and took the average to see which club should be used.  The hybrid won.  It was interesting.  The buddy went with the old adage of keeping the ball on the ground as much as possible to hit safer more consistent shots. 

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So there’s a patten emerging, I think - tell me if I’m wrong, I won’t be offended:

 

20+ handicaps play greenside shots with way too much loft, they rely on just sand wedge or lob wedge only, and they don’t have a system/grasp for distances less than their full swing highest lofted wedge.

 

10-20 handicaps are using a variety of clubs greenside, they are getting the ball running whenever they can, and they are aiming for the middle of the green and are avoiding hitting a wedge twice to get on from within the distance of their FSHLW.

 

0-10 handicaps have developed a system for attacking pins, they may start to manipulate high lofted wedges for a majority of greenside work or they may have developed a lot of control running the ball.

 

+ handicap players are playing more and more in fast tournament conditions. To hang, they are manipulating high lofted wedges and if they are pros, have the time to grind in the muscle memory to learn these shots from a variety of lies.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

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“He’s a Cinderella story. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac… It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole!” — Carl Spackler

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I use my 54 for everything around the green. My 50 is pretty much full shots only and my 60 is for full shots from a good lie. 

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12 hours ago, Grit Golf said:

So there’s a patten emerging, I think - tell me if I’m wrong, I won’t be offended:

 

20+ handicaps play greenside shots with way too much loft, they rely on just sand wedge or lob wedge only, and they don’t have a system/grasp for distances less than their full swing highest lofted wedge.

 

10-20 handicaps are using a variety of clubs greenside, they are getting the ball running whenever they can, and they are aiming for the middle of the green and are avoiding hitting a wedge twice to get on from within the distance of their FSHLW.

 

0-10 handicaps have developed a system for attacking pins, they may start to manipulate high lofted wedges for a majority of greenside work or they may have developed a lot of control running the ball.

 

+ handicap players are playing more and more in fast tournament conditions. To hang, they are manipulating high lofted wedges and if they are pros, have the time to grind in the muscle memory to learn these shots from a variety of lies.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

I think you hit this one 300 right down the middle 🙂 

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3W:  Taylormade '16 M2, Speeder 661 X

3:  Callaway X-forged UT 21*

4-P:  Callaway X-Forged, Modus 3 120 - S

Wedges:  50* - Callaway Apex Pro 19, 54* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black, 58* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black

Putter:  currently Odyssey Works V-Line Versa CB - 36"

Ball - Bridgestone Tour B X

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Posted (edited)

For me, I will use much more of a variety of clubs for chipping and pitching if I have my bag with me as opposed to riding in a cart.     If I am riding and I miss the green, most times I have no idea what the the lie or the shot is about from where the cart got parked, so I have to grab the "kit" out of the bag, the "kit" consists of putter, 60, 56, and PW or 9.  (And I get harassed for this of course.)   Sometimes it works out, but sometimes I have try the lower percentage shot, (fly it more than roll it) because I don't have the right club in the "kit".

When I am walking, the bag is there and everything is possible, and I can pick the club based on the lie, the grain in the green, the slope, the brain just picks the best club.

I believe that most golfers using only one or two clubs around the green can be greatly attributed to the golf cart.  

Edited by SlowNLow
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