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Thoughts on Shot Shaping?


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3 hours ago, TimoTe said:

Pick away. I am totally fine with it. I have shot 7 over more than a handful of times and those were my best days. 

My point is just taking the pressure off of always thinking you have to go for the green to make GIR can cost you more strokes than it should. 

If you look at strokes gained this is inaccurate. Nowhere do you score less farther away from the hole. 

25 minutes ago, den748 said:

I've also wondered frequently at what level do you start considering shaping your shots.  I've never thought of trying to shape until I'm like 5 handicap, but I know that is a flawed way of thinking in a lot of ways.  Others have hit the nail on the head in that it is more about course management than shaping (at least for the vast majority of us).

Once you get on tour. And even then they play their stock shot the vast majority of the time. 

Take me for example, low handicap, I practice/play 4 times a week or more. If I was to start having two different shapes I would have to increase my practice time twofold. Ain't gonna happen. 

Yes I can move the ball in different directions, however I can't do it consistently and nowhere near good enough to do it on course with anything on the line, unless I am forced to.

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2 hours ago, THEZIPR23 said:

If you look at strokes gained this is inaccurate. Nowhere do you score less farther away from the hole. 

I would disagree. Everything I have seen shows fairway bunkers and hitting from the long grass adds strokes. Additionally, green-side bunkers add strokes too. 

Take my earlier example of a 450 yd par 4 with trouble out at 270-300 yds and a small green surrounded by bunkers or water. 

A 260 drive leaves 190 to the center of the green. My argument is that this is a perfect time to plan on bogey and layup to your favorite short game shot instead of going for the green. The aggregate score of a player in this scenario would be lower laying up than going for it. 

A low single digit player isn't as worried about 190 yards so missing in a green-side bunkers is at worst bogey much of the time = the same potential worst case. 

Lastly, I heard recently that players that keep a handicap are in the top 20% or higher of golfers so, strokes gained is not counting at least 80% of golf played (probably closer to 95%). Strokes gained is based on the better players more than the "average" golfer shooting 100+. 

I think we are both partially right depending on specifics.

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I have a driving iron that goes straight that I play for anything approaching narrow or anything that doglegs right (righty).

My driver always draws, and if I snap my hands it always hooks. I would play a stock driver shot on that hypothetical hole and aim at the right edge of the fairway. At a 16 handicap I’m not trying to shape anything ever.

A 260 drive leaves 190 to the center of the green. My argument is that this is a perfect time to plan on bogey and layup to your favorite short game shot instead of going for the green. The aggregate score of a player in this scenario would be lower laying up than going for it. 


I’m a pretty decent iron player, I can carry a 5i 190, but I would never leave myself 190 on purpose, especially if it relied on a perfectly bombed drive to get there. My game plan for an hypothetical “eff you” 450yd par 4 is 5i (if it goes 190-200, awesome, if not, adjust) then 8i (counting on getting 150 out of it, if not, no big deal), then fire a 100yd easy 52* wedge (my zen club). That’s how I take the big numbers out of play. If my pitching and chipping wasn’t a dumpster fire maybe it would be different, but you gotta play w the game you got. I’m better off hitting 3 from 100 in the fairway than from 37 in the rough on the side of a hill under a tree branch.



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450 yards for most high handicap players is a par 5. Even if it is a par 4, it's likely a hole they'd be getting a shot on, so not exactly the best example.

I would disagree. Everything I have seen shows fairway bunkers and hitting from the long grass adds strokes. Additionally, green-side bunkers add strokes too. 
Take my earlier example of a 450 yd par 4 with trouble out at 270-300 yds and a small green surrounded by bunkers or water. 
A 260 drive leaves 190 to the center of the green. My argument is that this is a perfect time to plan on bogey and layup to your favorite short game shot instead of going for the green. The aggregate score of a player in this scenario would be lower laying up than going for it. 
A low single digit player isn't as worried about 190 yards so missing in a green-side bunkers is at worst bogey much of the time = the same potential worst case. 
Lastly, I heard recently that players that keep a handicap are in the top 20% or higher of golfers so, strokes gained is not counting at least 80% of golf played (probably closer to 95%). Strokes gained is based on the better players more than the "average" golfer shooting 100+. 
I think we are both partially right depending on specifics.


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I've also wondered frequently at what level do you start considering shaping your shots.  I've never thought of trying to shape until I'm like 5 handicap, but I know that is a flawed way of thinking in a lot of ways.  Others have hit the nail on the head in that it is more about course management than shaping (at least for the vast majority of us).

In some ways, I think that idea is backwards. A lot of high handicaps have a lot of shape to their shots and a two way miss. Most better players hit the ball strait. As a 20 cap right now, i rarely hit anything strait, I always have a shape in mind to trigger my swing. I think it’s more about control than shape. Much easier to aim one way and make a deliberate draw/fade swing than to line up down the middle and try to hit it strait. At the end of the day it’s about managing your tendencies. I tend to start the ball at the target, and bleed it off line, so I aim left or right of target and shape it to the target.

Plus I’m all about getting better as a player, sure hitting the same shot every time will help your score short term, but trying those shots is the only way to get better at them and really improve in the long run.


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37 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

450 yards for most high handicap players is a par 5. Even if it is a par 4, it's likely a hole they'd be getting a shot on, so not exactly the best example.

 


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Most of the time I see people playing a tee or two beyond their ability. I see the exact scenario I presented all the time.

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1 hour ago, TimoTe said:

I would disagree. Everything I have seen shows fairway bunkers and hitting from the long grass adds strokes. Additionally, green-side bunkers add strokes too. 

Take my earlier example of a 450 yd par 4 with trouble out at 270-300 yds and a small green surrounded by bunkers or water. 

A 260 drive leaves 190 to the center of the green. My argument is that this is a perfect time to plan on bogey and layup to your favorite short game shot instead of going for the green. The aggregate score of a player in this scenario would be lower laying up than going for it. 

A low single digit player isn't as worried about 190 yards so missing in a green-side bunkers is at worst bogey much of the time = the same potential worst case. 

Lastly, I heard recently that players that keep a handicap are in the top 20% or higher of golfers so, strokes gained is not counting at least 80% of golf played (probably closer to 95%). Strokes gained is based on the better players more than the "average" golfer shooting 100+. 

I think we are both partially right depending on specifics.

You are correct on the fairway bunkers, especially the 60-85 yarders, SG goes way up on those even on tour. Rough is about -.25 but the distance gain is generally a larger gain. 

Your example, while I would say is not great, I understand your point. 

If you were to run the SG on it would say go for the green every time (penalty strokes are not considered). 

If there were to be a hazard around the green, it would be dependent on player and their distance, but in yours a player hitting it 260 off tee is going to hit 4 iron at worse to the green. Which means go for it. 

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14 minutes ago, LeftyRM7 said:



Plus I’m all about getting better as a player, sure hitting the same shot every time will help your score short term, but trying those shots is the only way to get better at them and really improve in the long run.


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I’m sure he has said something similar about this on here but I would love to hear @edteergolf thoughts on this. 

Not picking on you, I just think that if you are serious about getting better this thinking is completely backwards. 

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I've been labeled as the boring golfer.  I hit it straight down the middle and play smart golf. I don't usually try to do something I'm not capable of or get in situations that's going to cost me a shot or penal. Thus the boring golfer label. 

In this case I would play up the left side and put it in the center of the fairway with whatever club I needed for the distance to do it.  Then take it from there. No matter what they say trees are not 80% air. 

 

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I think the example is more of a hypothetical. A 550 yard par 5 or a 350 yard par 4 are less controversial.

 

 

If there were to be a hazard around the green, it would be dependent on player and their distance, but in yours a player hitting it 260 off tee is going to hit 4 iron at worse to the green. Which means go for it. 

 

In my own game, I know I have a better chance making par if my 3rd shot is a full pitching wedge or gap wedge from the fairway (skytrak +0.5 handicap 100% of greens/5) vs wherever a 190 yard 5 iron (skytrak -19 handicap 1/5 greens) will leave me (137 feet away on average, tendency left). If there are hazards or bunkers etc it makes the choice even easier.

 

The other thing factoring into this for me is a 260 yard drive is not a high probability fairway shot for me, I can hit a lot of fairways at 240, and if I step on it I can miss a lot at 260. A 450yd par 4 means I’m playing the wrong tees, but with my game, to stack 2 low probability shots together is asking for a big number.

 

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On 6/9/2020 at 8:07 PM, THEZIPR23 said:

I’m sure he has said something similar about this on here but I would love to hear @edteergolf thoughts on this. 

Not picking on you, I just think that if you are serious about getting better this thinking is completely backwards. 

This is to everyone who has commented on this topic!!

I'm not sure where to begin.  This isn't an easy topic because it challenges everything that we believe is true about the game.  For the moment, I want to share some data with you and premise it by saying that it doesn't matter than the player is on tour and makes a lot of money.  Shots gained, in its truest form, compares how you played to everyone else in the field.  Think of it as similar players.  So if the stat/skill is true for a bunch of tour players the stat/skill will be true for a bunch of 18 handicap players.  Bryson DeChambeau has gained two strokes or more on the field 5 of the last 8 rounds.  Historically gaining two shot on the field happens about 1% of the time.  In those rounds he hit 9/14, 9/14, 9/14, 8/14 & 7/14 fairways per round.  I will remind you that he gained two shots on the field by not hitting all the fairways.  

I'm going to make everyone a free no-strings attached offer!  I've been contemplating entering online coaching market.  I know everyone provides swing instruction, but I want to provide more than just swing work.  I want to provide holistic training for golfers interested in understanding the game, what to train, how to train, how to prepare to play, and how to play.  I don't care if you are trying to win a soda, club championship, us open, or break 100.  To do it well, I need to practice presenting online via zoom or similar.  I am inviting everyone on this thread  to join me for a free webinar on strategy that will cover tee shots, approach shots, Scott Fawcett's DECADE, & any other questions you have about strategy.  You will not hear anything about my program, I will not make a sales offer to you, or answer any questions concerning my online coaching endeavor.

I simply want to share information that I have compiled as a coach that has helped my private students and my women's college team.  If you are interested, reply to this post with your email address.  I will use the address for the Zoom invitation only and you will never receive an email from me for any other purpose.  This offer is not about sales in any way!!

I'm thinking Sunday evening at 8:00 pm eastern time.  

 

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41 minutes ago, edteergolf said:

I simply want to share information that I have compiled as a coach that has helped my private students and my women's college team.  If you are interested, reply to this post with your email address.  I will use the address for the Zoom invitation only and you will never receive an email from me for any other purpose.  This offer is not about sales in any way!!

I'm thinking Sunday evening at 8:00 pm eastern time.  

 

That is a very generous offer Ed,  please add me to your list for Sunday.  I am pretty sure you already have my email.  

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52 minutes ago, edteergolf said:

This is to everyone who has commented on this topic!!

I'm not sure where to begin.  This isn't an easy topic because it challenges everything that we believe is true about the game.  For the moment, I want to share some data with you and premise it by saying that it doesn't matter than the player is on tour and makes a lot of money.  Shots gained, in its truest form, compares how you played to everyone else in the field.  Think of it as similar players.  So if the stat/skill is true for a bunch of tour players the stat/skill will be true for a bunch of 18 handicap players.  Bryson DeChambeau has gained two strokes or more on the field 5 of the last 8 rounds.  Historically gaining two shot on the field happens about 1% of the time.  In those rounds he hit 9/14, 9/14, 9/14, 8/14 & 7/14 fairways per round.  I will remind you that he gained two shots on the field by not hitting all the fairways.  

I'm going to make everyone a free no-strings attached offer!  I've been contemplating entering online coaching market.  I know everyone provides swing instruction, but I want to provide more than just swing work.  I want to provide holistic training for golfers interested in understanding the game, what to train, how to train, how to prepare to play, and how to play.  I don't care if you are trying to win a soda, club championship, us open, or break 100.  To do it well, I need to practice presenting online via zoom or similar.  I am inviting everyone on this thread  to join me for a free webinar on strategy that will cover tee shots, approach shots, Scott Fawcett's DECADE, & any other questions you have about strategy.  You will not hear anything about my program, I will not make a sales offer to you, or answer any questions concerning my online coaching endeavor.

I simply want to share information that I have compiled as a coach that has helped my private students and my women's college team.  If you are interested, reply to this post with your email address.  I will use the address for the Zoom invitation only and you will never receive an email from me for any other purpose.  This offer is not about sales in any way!!

I'm thinking Sunday evening at 8:00 pm eastern time.  

 

This is a incredible. Thanks Ed. 

Thezipr@gmail.com

I have a 120 Pacific tee time on Sunday so it will be close to me getting there on time but will join as soon as I can. 

 

Thanks again. 

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Sounds like a great opportunity. I have sent you a message with my email.

This is to everyone who has commented on this topic!!
I'm not sure where to begin.  This isn't an easy topic because it challenges everything that we believe is true about the game.  For the moment, I want to share some data with you and premise it by saying that it doesn't matter than the player is on tour and makes a lot of money.  Shots gained, in its truest form, compares how you played to everyone else in the field.  Think of it as similar players.  So if the stat/skill is true for a bunch of tour players the stat/skill will be true for a bunch of 18 handicap players.  Bryson DeChambeau has gained two strokes or more on the field 5 of the last 8 rounds.  Historically gaining two shot on the field happens about 1% of the time.  In those rounds he hit 9/14, 9/14, 9/14, 8/14 & 7/14 fairways per round.  I will remind you that he gained two shots on the field by not hitting all the fairways.  
I'm going to make everyone a free no-strings attached offer!  I've been contemplating entering online coaching market.  I know everyone provides swing instruction, but I want to provide more than just swing work.  I want to provide holistic training for golfers interested in understanding the game, what to train, how to train, how to prepare to play, and how to play.  I don't care if you are trying to win a soda, club championship, us open, or break 100.  To do it well, I need to practice presenting online via zoom or similar.  I am inviting everyone on this thread  to join me for a free webinar on strategy that will cover tee shots, approach shots, Scott Fawcett's DECADE, & any other questions you have about strategy.  You will not hear anything about my program, I will not make a sales offer to you, or answer any questions concerning my online coaching endeavor.
I simply want to share information that I have compiled as a coach that has helped my private students and my women's college team.  If you are interested, reply to this post with your email address.  I will use the address for the Zoom invitation only and you will never receive an email from me for any other purpose.  This offer is not about sales in any way!!
I'm thinking Sunday evening at 8:00 pm eastern time.  
 


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On 6/9/2020 at 7:48 PM, LeftyRM7 said:

Plus I’m all about getting better as a player, sure hitting the same shot every time will help your score short term, but trying those shots is the only way to get better at them and really improve in the long run.

To me, getting better means shooting consistently better scores.  Better scores, to some extent, come from making better decisions.  Many of the best players in the world have made the decision to play their standard shot shape unless it is absolutely necessary natural to do something else.  They certainly do practice all shapes, and can generally pull them off, but they have chosen to stay with one shot as much as possible.  That's not a short-term thing, that's a long-term commitment to making the best possible decision each time.

On 6/9/2020 at 9:01 PM, Grit Golf said:

In my own game, I know I have a better chance making par if my 3rd shot is a full pitching wedge or gap wedge from the fairway (skytrak +0.5 handicap 100% of greens/5) vs wherever a 190 yard 5 iron (skytrak -19 handicap 1/5 greens) will leave me (137 feet away on average, tendency left). If there are hazards or bunkers etc it makes the choice even easier.

Looking at the PGA Tour stats from 2019, from 100-125 yards the median scoring with regard to par was -0.17.  That means the median Tour pro (typical handicap of +5 to +7) got up and down about 1 time in 6.  If you're playing at a +0.5 handicap level from that range, I bet you're doing it 1 time in 10, or something like that.  If you can't do better than that from an average of 45 yards, I'd be astounded.  You already hit the green 2 times in 10 from 190, you're way ahead of the game by going for the green from 190.  Obviously if there's a hazard to consider, that might change the decision.

14 hours ago, edteergolf said:

  Bryson DeChambeau has gained two strokes or more on the field 5 of the last 8 rounds.  Historically gaining two shot on the field happens about 1% of the time.  In those rounds he hit 9/14, 9/14, 9/14, 8/14 & 7/14 fairways per round.  I will remind you that he gained two shots on the field by not hitting all the fairways.  

Would it perhaps be more appropriate to say he gained two strokes in spite of not hitting the all fairways?  I know fairways hit doesn't always correlate well with scoring as well as some other statistics, but in general its better to hit them than to miss.

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3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

To me, getting better means shooting consistently better scores.  Better scores, to some extent, come from making better decisions.  Many of the best players in the world have made the decision to play their standard shot shape unless it is absolutely natural to do something else.  They certainly do practice all shapes, and can generally pull them off, but they have chosen to stay with one shot as much as possible.  That's not a short-term thing, that's a long-term commitment to making the best possible decision each time.

Looking at the PGA Tour stats from 2019, from 100-125 yards the median scoring with regard to par was -0.17.  That means the median Tour pro (typical handicap of +5 to +7) got up and down about 1 time in 6.  If you're playing at a +0.5 handicap level from that range, I bet you're doing it 1 time in 10, or something like that.  If you can't do better than that from an average of 45 yards, I'd be astounded.  You already hit the green 2 times in 10 from 190, you're way ahead of the game by going for the green from 190.  Obviously if there's a hazard to consider, that might change the decision.

Would it perhaps be more appropriate to say he gained two strokes in spite of not hitting the all fairways?  I know fairways hit doesn't always correlate well with scoring as well as some other statistics, but in general its better to hit them than to miss.

In spite of not hitting all the fairways is a very good question.  I'm not sure I have a statistical way of saying yes or no unless I have access to each hole & his ball position.  My gut tells me that it is more correct that he gained two strokes off the tee using proper strategy and length.  His length may not apply to many but his strategy certainty does. Fairways are in no way bad but finding trouble when just trying to hit the fairway is a flawed strategy.  Great question. 

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3 minutes ago, edteergolf said:

In spite of not hitting all the fairways is a very good question.  I'm not sure I have a statistical way of saying yes or no unless I have access to each hole & his ball position.  My gut tells me that it is more correct that he gained two strokes off the tee using proper strategy and length.  His length may not apply to many but his strategy certainty does. Fairways are in no way bad but finding trouble when just trying to hit the fairway is a flawed strategy.  Great question. 

Look back a few posts - join us on Sunday if you can. 

I understand this point exactly.  Sometimes the smartest spot to aim isn't the center of the fairway, when considering bunkers and penalty areas and terrain and approach angle and any other factors..  A really good tee shot, just a few feet off from the desired aim point could be in the rough, yet still be a success.  Like you, I suspect that Bryson hit a bunch of really "successful" tee shots that just happened to find the rough.

And thanks for the invitation, I'll definitely try to attend on Sunday.  Not sure I'll make it, we have a 36-hole stroke-play event this weekend at Stoneleigh (Round Hill, VA), and I'm usually pretty wiped at the end of these.

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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I understand this point exactly.  Sometimes the smartest spot to aim isn't the center of the fairway, when considering bunkers and penalty areas and terrain and approach angle and any other factors..  A really good tee shot, just a few feet off from the desired aim point could be in the rough, yet still be a success.  Like you, I suspect that Bryson hit a bunch of really "successful" tee shots that just happened to find the rough.
And thanks for the invitation, I'll definitely try to attend on Sunday.  Not sure I'll make it, we have a 36-hole stroke-play event this weekend at Stoneleigh (Round Hill, VA), and I'm usually pretty wiped at the end of these.

Yep, your s*** distribution determines where to aim and that spot in the rough might have been exactly where he was aiming.

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13 hours ago, edteergolf said:

This is to everyone who has commented on this topic!!

I'm not sure where to begin.  This isn't an easy topic because it challenges everything that we believe is true about the game.  For the moment, I want to share some data with you and premise it by saying that it doesn't matter than the player is on tour and makes a lot of money.  Shots gained, in its truest form, compares how you played to everyone else in the field.  Think of it as similar players.  So if the stat/skill is true for a bunch of tour players the stat/skill will be true for a bunch of 18 handicap players.  Bryson DeChambeau has gained two strokes or more on the field 5 of the last 8 rounds.  Historically gaining two shot on the field happens about 1% of the time.  In those rounds he hit 9/14, 9/14, 9/14, 8/14 & 7/14 fairways per round.  I will remind you that he gained two shots on the field by not hitting all the fairways.  

I'm going to make everyone a free no-strings attached offer!  I've been contemplating entering online coaching market.  I know everyone provides swing instruction, but I want to provide more than just swing work.  I want to provide holistic training for golfers interested in understanding the game, what to train, how to train, how to prepare to play, and how to play.  I don't care if you are trying to win a soda, club championship, us open, or break 100.  To do it well, I need to practice presenting online via zoom or similar.  I am inviting everyone on this thread  to join me for a free webinar on strategy that will cover tee shots, approach shots, Scott Fawcett's DECADE, & any other questions you have about strategy.  You will not hear anything about my program, I will not make a sales offer to you, or answer any questions concerning my online coaching endeavor.

I simply want to share information that I have compiled as a coach that has helped my private students and my women's college team.  If you are interested, reply to this post with your email address.  I will use the address for the Zoom invitation only and you will never receive an email from me for any other purpose.  This offer is not about sales in any way!!

I'm thinking Sunday evening at 8:00 pm eastern time.  

 

 

13 hours ago, edteergolf said:

This is to everyone who has commented on this topic!!

I'm not sure where to begin.  This isn't an easy topic because it challenges everything that we believe is true about the game.  For the moment, I want to share some data with you and premise it by saying that it doesn't matter than the player is on tour and makes a lot of money.  Shots gained, in its truest form, compares how you played to everyone else in the field.  Think of it as similar players.  So if the stat/skill is true for a bunch of tour players the stat/skill will be true for a bunch of 18 handicap players.  Bryson DeChambeau has gained two strokes or more on the field 5 of the last 8 rounds.  Historically gaining two shot on the field happens about 1% of the time.  In those rounds he hit 9/14, 9/14, 9/14, 8/14 & 7/14 fairways per round.  I will remind you that he gained two shots on the field by not hitting all the fairways.  

I'm going to make everyone a free no-strings attached offer!  I've been contemplating entering online coaching market.  I know everyone provides swing instruction, but I want to provide more than just swing work.  I want to provide holistic training for golfers interested in understanding the game, what to train, how to train, how to prepare to play, and how to play.  I don't care if you are trying to win a soda, club championship, us open, or break 100.  To do it well, I need to practice presenting online via zoom or similar.  I am inviting everyone on this thread  to join me for a free webinar on strategy that will cover tee shots, approach shots, Scott Fawcett's DECADE, & any other questions you have about strategy.  You will not hear anything about my program, I will not make a sales offer to you, or answer any questions concerning my online coaching endeavor.

I simply want to share information that I have compiled as a coach that has helped my private students and my women's college team.  If you are interested, reply to this post with your email address.  I will use the address for the Zoom invitation only and you will never receive an email from me for any other purpose.  This offer is not about sales in any way!!

I'm thinking Sunday evening at 8:00 pm eastern time.  

 

This is a great offer. I have messaged you my email address. Thanks.

Unofficial WHS Handicap: 7.5 / Anti-Cap: 13.0 (Last Updated Feb. 19, 2024)

Driver: callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Paradym TD (10.5°, -1/N), 45.75", Fujikura Motore X F1 6X | Fitting Post
3 Wood: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra RadSpeed Big Tour (14.5°), 43", Fujikura Motore X F1 7X
20° Hybrid: PXG_Logo.png.8401024d1fb8aec46f0e790c1aa5b80c.png PXG 0211 (2020 Model), 40.25", Mitsubishi Tensei AV RAW White 90X
4 Utility: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING Utility (2020 Model), 38.5", Aerotech SteelFiber i110cw Stiff
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logo-Ben-Hogan-large.png.98d743ae5487285c6406a1e30a0a63b5.png Ben Hogan PTx Pro, 37" 7 Iron, Aerotech SteelFiber i125cw Stiff | Club Champion Fitting
50°, 54°, 58°:
231036130_Edel_Golf_Logo_v2_grandecopy.png.13cc76b963f8dd59f06d04b1e8df2827.png Edel SMS, V Grind, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge| Official Review Thread
Putter:
image.png.49fcc172a1ed0010d930fbe1c5dc8b79.png L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review
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stargrip.png.4285948f41f1409613266e7803f0bbaa.png Star Sidewinder, Undersized with Custom Tape Build-Up
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Tracked By: shotscope.png.4a7089f2bddff325285b1266a61dda03.png  Shot Scope H4
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image.png.1db52ce91db040317a9ac580f1df8de8.pngBag Boy Nitron | Official Review Thread

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On 6/6/2020 at 8:16 AM, juspoole said:

I was curious to take other's thoughts about how they approach a hole with a slight dogleg.  Holes that obviously call for a draw or fade.  I tend to have a natural fade to my ball so I will usually play on the right side to let it go straight or fade over and generally take out the right side of the course as often as I can(remember I'm a lefty)

Below as example: If I was a Righty, I would still be aiming at tree line to let my fade to over or if I hit it straight I'm ok.  I normally wouldn't be going for the draw here.

image.png.0a53b80d999c1604512fccbde44f8e6c.png

If I have to play a draw, I usually can shape it without much difficulty, but usually have trouble knowing how much it will turn over since that's not my natural shape.

Also would be curious on straighter holes, what are you thoughts.  Play down a certain side of the fairway to play your natural shape?  Pick a spot and try to hit a straight ball?  What has worked for you?

I've heard a lot of instructors with differing thoughts that make sense to me.  If you can't break 80 by hitting it straight, you shouldn't be trying to shape it very often.  Others will say the higher percentage is to have a shape in mind (rather than straight) to take a side of the hole out of play.  Jack Nicklaus used to approach tough driving holes by aiming down the same side of OB and fading/drawing away from it dependent on what was needed.

Part of my ask on this was that I played with my boss the other day and he is probably a 36+ handicap that hardly plays and has a Wilson Box set that has "mid trajectory senior shaft" that are graphite and obviously not right for his game by any stretch (he is a 45 y/o former hockey player).  But, he did not think about these things whatsoever.  He would just aim down the middle or at the pin.  I talked a bit about course strategy and had him playing left of greens for his push fade/slice and he ended with a 102 that could have easily been a 95.

 

My immediate thought is "damn, I sure wish I could reliably draw and fade the ball" 😆.  I too have a natural fade and can pull that ball flight off more consistently.  That said, I don't really have the confidence in being able to control either - the degree to which the ball moves left or right.  If the knee of the dogleg is within my driving distance, I just try and get clear of the corner obstacle or at least stay on the side of the fairway away from it.  

On most courses, aiming down and being in the middle of fairways is rarely going to hurt scoring odds. If I could drive lasers down the centerline for an entire round, I would guess that would improve my average scoring by 4-6 strokes.  Being in the rough, having tree limbs come into play, or worse OB, eats up strokes.

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13 hours ago, edteergolf said:

I simply want to share information that I have compiled as a coach that has helped my private students and my women's college team.  If you are interested, reply to this post with your email address.  I will use the address for the Zoom invitation only and you will never receive an email from me for any other purpose.  This offer is not about sales in any way!!

I'm thinking Sunday evening at 8:00 pm eastern time.  

I'd appreciate an invitation,

davep043@yahoo.com

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Yep, your s*** distribution determines where to aim and that spot in the rough might have been exactly where he was aiming.

There's shot distribution, and s*** distribution.  During a typical round, i have some of each.  🤣

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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On 6/6/2020 at 10:16 AM, juspoole said:

I was curious to take other's thoughts about how they approach a hole with a slight dogleg.  Holes that obviously call for a draw or fade.  I tend to have a natural fade to my ball so I will usually play on the right side to let it go straight or fade over and generally take out the right side of the course as often as I can(remember I'm a lefty)

Below as example: If I was a Righty, I would still be aiming at tree line to let my fade to over or if I hit it straight I'm ok.  I normally wouldn't be going for the draw here.

image.png.0a53b80d999c1604512fccbde44f8e6c.png

If I have to play a draw, I usually can shape it without much difficulty, but usually have trouble knowing how much it will turn over since that's not my natural shape.

Also would be curious on straighter holes, what are you thoughts.  Play down a certain side of the fairway to play your natural shape?  Pick a spot and try to hit a straight ball?  What has worked for you?

I've heard a lot of instructors with differing thoughts that make sense to me.  If you can't break 80 by hitting it straight, you shouldn't be trying to shape it very often.  Others will say the higher percentage is to have a shape in mind (rather than straight) to take a side of the hole out of play.  Jack Nicklaus used to approach tough driving holes by aiming down the same side of OB and fading/drawing away from it dependent on what was needed.

Part of my ask on this was that I played with my boss the other day and he is probably a 36+ handicap that hardly plays and has a Wilson Box set that has "mid trajectory senior shaft" that are graphite and obviously not right for his game by any stretch (he is a 45 y/o former hockey player).  But, he did not think about these things whatsoever.  He would just aim down the middle or at the pin.  I talked a bit about course strategy and had him playing left of greens for his push fade/slice and he ended with a 102 that could have easily been a 95.

 

What course and hole is this? 

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IMG_2180.PNG

45 yards from the rough, especially if there’s some slope, maybe trees, maybe an awkward lies is not better than 100 yards from the fairway for my game. Tour player short game does not translate to my 16 handicap unfortunately.


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21 minutes ago, Grit Golf said:

IMG_2180.PNG

45 yards from the rough, especially if there’s some slope, maybe trees, maybe an awkward lies is not better than 100 yards from the fairway for my game. Tour player short game does not translate to my 16 handicap unfortunately.
 

For me it really depends... obviously if trees block the shot, that's a no go.  I can deal with slope; my course has a lot of it.  If the rough is our typical rough and not tall fescue, I will be better off at 45 yards, but I practice my short game quite a bit.  Not as much as a tour player obviously, but I know I can get most on the green.  That's not a given for me from 100 yards in the fairway.

If you haven't done it, go to a spot in the rough 45 yards out and hit a bunch of balls.  Hit the same number from 100 yards in the fairway.  See which balls are closest to the pin.  

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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19 hours ago, edteergolf said:

What course and hole is this? 

Not sure, just more of a representation that I thought fit the bill with the question.  

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2 Hybrid: :titelist-small: TSI3 Hybrid Tensei Blue 80 X (17.25*)

3 Hybrid :titelist-small: 818 H2 Hybrid Hzrdus RDX Black 6.5 (20.5*)

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On 6/6/2020 at 8:01 PM, bens197 said:

When I’m playing well it’s a straight iron and a slight cut off the driver. Straight is good, fades work and left means I’m all out of whack. 
 

Yes, I can work the ball on command but I’ll take straight all day long. 

I can't hit the ball straight. Theres always a fade or draw to it. My instructors working on that with me.

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I draw on demand or go straight. 
 

if the hole doesn’t fit that... well that’ll be that. Can’t be super aggressive all the time and I have zero issue standing on a tee with a 5 iron that’s landing on the fairway and giving me a chance. 

"C'mon be good"

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