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Steel to graphite shafts and S to R flex


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Age (50 in a few days) and potential back issues flaring up may dictate that I switch to regular shafts as I reduce my swing speed and torque on my back. With the tech behind graphite shafts for irons now make them on par with steel as far as consistency, I may make the switch come spring. Currently winter here and not doing anything to aggravate my back precludes any indoor testing and fitting. If you have made the switch from steel to graphite and dropped a flex, what did you learn from the process? Did you try to match ball flight? How was the transition to get to a point of being comfortable with the switch and trusting your shot?

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2 hours ago, Titleist87 said:

Age (50 in a few days) and potential back issues flaring up may dictate that I switch to regular shafts as I reduce my swing speed and torque on my back. With the tech behind graphite shafts for irons now make them on par with steel as far as consistency, I may make the switch come spring. Currently winter here and not doing anything to aggravate my back precludes any indoor testing and fitting. If you have made the switch from steel to graphite and dropped a flex, what did you learn from the process? Did you try to match ball flight? How was the transition to get to a point of being comfortable with the switch and trusting your shot?

While I haven't switched flexes,  I switched from steel to graphite and since it was a change I wanted to make I didn't need to get comfortable or trust the shot.  Hit a few graphite shafts and found the performance to be equal to steel.  There isn't any significant difference between the two. 

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23 minutes ago, cnosil said:

While I haven't switched flexes,  I switched from steel to graphite and since it was a change I wanted to make I didn't need to get comfortable or trust the shot.  Hit a few graphite shafts and found the performance to be equal to steel.  There isn't any significant difference between the two. 

How was the transition to a lighter (assumed) graphite shaft?

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2 minutes ago, Titleist87 said:

How was the transition to a lighter (assumed) graphite shaft?

It was a lighter shaft,  but it doesn't have to be;  graphite shafts come in the 120gr range.     I went from 120 to 85gr shafts; no I wasn't fit it was what was available.   I feel like I am hitting the ball more consistently with the lighter shafts and my dispersion is better but I have probably lost about half a club.  I don't attribute that to the shaft,  but to less forgiving clubs that don't always respond well to my toe hit. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I switched at about 50 (58 now), but did not drop in flex. I did it for the pain. I was in the position of either changing or quitting the game. Graphite shafts were a life saver and I am playing better than ever. I also stayed in the 120-115g range.

BT

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/31/2020 at 9:21 AM, Titleist87 said:

Age (50 in a few days) and potential back issues flaring up may dictate that I switch to regular shafts as I reduce my swing speed and torque on my back. With the tech behind graphite shafts for irons now make them on par with steel as far as consistency, I may make the switch come spring. Currently winter here and not doing anything to aggravate my back precludes any indoor testing and fitting. If you have made the switch from steel to graphite and dropped a flex, what did you learn from the process? Did you try to match ball flight? How was the transition to get to a point of being comfortable with the switch and trusting your shot?

I went the test route when I started experimenting with graphite shafts.  I built test clubs with retail version Recoil 125, XCaliber TourX 105, Aldila NV105.  I didn't try the Steelfiber at the time.  

I would take the clubs to the range, give them a decent bit of work, and also would add them to my bag for a number of rounds, taking the opportunity to use them in place of my standard irons on various shots.  Even went out of the way to manufacture opportunities to use them.  

I also had been paying attention to the assorted posts on the various graphite iron shafts available by one Brother Chisag.  He'd been down this road earlier, and has tested a great many shafts.  He and I have different shaft preferences now, but his comments on the similarities between the shafts helped point me in the direction of the shafts I ultimately chose.  Highly recommend his posts on the subject.

Ultimately, I chose the NV105 for my initial experiment; Chisag describes the NV as DG-like, something that appealed to me.  They felt very slightly softer, but I couldn't say it's flex, it could be the inherent muting of the vibrations thru graphite shafts.  It's a departure in static weight from the DG or Precision stepped shafts I'd been using, going from 130g to 105g.  What I found is the lighter weight informed me of how much I muscle the club in my swing, LOL. 

I also found success using something Dave Tutelman talks about in his Club Design Notes, regarding what he calls "heft."  When dropping overall weight, he proposed adding one third of the shaft weight change to the clubhead.  In my case, with a 25g drop, roughly 8g added to the clubhead would be his suggestion.  I increased the swingweight of my graphite irons over what I'd been using, found it improved my results.  Brother @BIG STU likely approves of my irons, as the lead tape added is moderate to considerable.  😉

Sorry for the TLDR post.  🙂   
Essentially, I found demoing one club to be effective.  It's easier in that I can do my own assembly, and have a fair number of sets lying around to use for testing.  There are a lot of options out there, but you can help narrow your choices based on the steel shafts you've preferred, IMHO...
 

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3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1-PW Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, DGS300; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
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LW:  Maltby Design 60*, 1.05 sole, DGS; Maltby Design 60* 1.05 sole, NV105
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
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5 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

I went the test route when I started experimenting with graphite shafts.  I built test clubs with retail version Recoil 125, XCaliber TourX 105, Aldila NV105.  I didn't try the Steelfiber at the time.  

I would take the clubs to the range, give them a decent bit of work, and also would add them to my bag for a number of rounds, taking the opportunity to use them in place of my standard irons on various shots.  Even went out of the way to manufacture opportunities to use them.  

I also had been paying attention to the assorted posts on the various graphite iron shafts available by one Brother Chisag.  He'd been down this road earlier, and has tested a great many shafts.  He and I have different shaft preferences now, but his comments on the similarities between the shafts helped point me in the direction of the shafts I ultimately chose.  Highly recommend his posts on the subject.

Ultimately, I chose the NV105 for my initial experiment; Chisag describes the NV as DG-like, something that appealed to me.  They felt very slightly softer, but I couldn't say it's flex, it could be the inherent muting of the vibrations thru graphite shafts.  It's a departure in static weight from the DG or Precision stepped shafts I'd been using, going from 130g to 105g.  What I found is the lighter weight informed me of how much I muscle the club in my swing, LOL. 

I also found success using something Dave Tutelman talks about in his Club Design Notes, regarding what he calls "heft."  When dropping overall weight, he proposed adding one third of the shaft weight change to the clubhead.  In my case, with a 25g drop, roughly 8g added to the clubhead would be his suggestion.  I increased the swingweight of my graphite irons over what I'd been using, found it improved my results.  Brother @BIG STU likely approves of my irons, as the lead tape added is moderate to considerable.  😉

Sorry for the TLDR post.  🙂   
Essentially, I found demoing one club to be effective.  It's easier in that I can do my own assembly, and have a fair number of sets lying around to use for testing.  There are a lot of options out there, but you can help narrow your choices based on the steel shafts you've preferred, IMHO...
 

Actually found your post helpful--- I have been experimenting some more with graphite shafts after my Bud Bear dropped off some stuff he had no room for.  Now the M-6 driver he said was a POS is really working for me with a Project X 45 gram shaft; A departure from the Homna I have used the last few years. Even though i have not fully recovered i am hitting it as far as I was pre accident. Now on the iron side I did play the TP CB irons this week some with the Steel Fiber 95 shafts in them ( R flex). I have mixed reviews on them since I am not swinging my best. The ones I am going to try this week when it warms up is a set of Titleist AP-2 714s with Kuro Kage 65 gram graphite in them. I know they are GI and clunky but for clunkies they sit pretty decent to my eye. Yeah right now with what I have had going on I am not able to hit many balls so my ball striking is not where it needs to be with the Mac Hogans. If it warms up tomorrow afternoon after church I may get out with the AP2s and see whats happening. 

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I switched to graphite about 6 or 7 years ago with Aerotech Steelfibers and I found that I was more consistent and I played pain free for the fist time in years. For a while I still had steel shaft in my wedges but I completely switched those to graphite as well a few years ago. I’m currently playing recoils and all my irons and wedges and I love the feel and the consistency. I didn’t change flex though, I am still playing stiff shafts but I have been contemplating dropping back to regular flex as I get closer to 60

Keep in mind if you’re going to try the steel fibers, those play a little bit stiffer than normal in fact my fitter told me the regular flex in the Aerotech Steel fibers is just a touch below Stiff in most steel shafts.


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In my 50's here. Switched several years ago and have been quite pleased. At first I did not have comfort partly due as I went with too light a shaft and my feel was out of sync. I did some research/testing and switched to SteelFibers and have not looked back. For me I get the benefits of graphite yet achieve the steel like feel I loved. I also like Paderson graphite and a few Robin Arthur graphite models (fairway woods). Most of friends that I golf with love UST Recoils and speak highly of those. 

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15 hours ago, TBT said:

Keep in mind if you’re going to try the steel fibers, those play a little bit stiffer than normal in fact my fitter told me the regular flex in the Aerotech Steel fibers is just a touch below Stiff in most steel shafts.

The Steelfibers are largely a stiffer tipped version of Dynamic Gold.  It's appealing to those who like a stiffer tip, but might feel too strong for those who are more inclined towards softer tip section shafts.

Here's the Wishon Shaft Profile data I've collected for the Steelfibers, along with DG for comparison.  I threw the RIP Tour in there also, though it needs a disclaimer...  the very low 36" measurement is due to the measured shaft actually not being long enough to have five inches in the clamp.  🙂

image.png.5ff3c52178f0bb84d476f8643d732050.png

Edited by NRJyzr
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Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1-PW Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, DGS300; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
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LW:  Maltby Design 60*, 1.05 sole, DGS; Maltby Design 60* 1.05 sole, NV105
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, or TM TP5

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Steel to graphite is a weird feeling for some because it’s usually a move to something lighter in shaft weight and depending on the clubhead could impact balance and/or swing weight. I’ve been fit into recoils by the wonderful folks at ust mamiya several years back. I went from the s300 amt shafts to recoil 110 in same flex. I could have gone to the 125s but during the fitting we discussed fatigue and how the 110s would impact that less late in the round. The recoils actually swingweighted out to the same as the amts in my 716 cb irons. I don’t loose any feel making the switch. While I was there I learned their director of marketing who had a higher swing speed than me was playing the recoil 95 but in x stiff.

After several different irons with different steel shafts I went back to the recoil 110 in my miuras and that combo swingeights slightly higher than a steel shaft in them.

With graphite there’s a lot that shaft manufactures can do to change feel, performance and how the shafts impact launch. The recoil vs recoil prototype as an example in the same weight play different. The prototype play stiffer. 
 

With more options in the graphite market these days it’s best to find someone who carries the various brands and get fit for the right one.  

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This is a pretty good video on the subject... especially those like myself still coming up the learning curve on shaft options.  

 

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On 1/23/2021 at 4:36 PM, TBT said:

I switched to graphite about 6 or 7 years ago with Aerotech Steelfibers and I found that I was more consistent and I played pain free for the fist time in years. For a while I still had steel shaft in my wedges but I completely switched those to graphite as well a few years ago. I’m currently playing recoils and all my irons and wedges and I love the feel and the consistency. I didn’t change flex though, I am still playing stiff shafts but I have been contemplating dropping back to regular flex as I get closer to 60

Keep in mind if you’re going to try the steel fibers, those play a little bit stiffer than normal in fact my fitter told me the regular flex in the Aerotech Steel fibers is just a touch below Stiff in most steel shafts.


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The more threads, videos (and video comments) I read, the more excited I am about finding the right composite shaft.  My left shoulder is just going to get worse pounding away at it with steel.  A question I have is one brought up by my Truespec fitter in his comment to me that "for a good many of the stock OEM composite shafts, what you test at the fitting cart can often be different than what you get. That it's kind of like Russian Roulette when it comes to composite shafts".  Perhaps it wasn't his intent, but this got me to thinking that only the higher end composite shafts is the best bet.  What do you guys think about this?  🤔

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I don't think that would be the case for Ping as their manufacturing standards for their shaft partners are tight (as is their overall QC),  I did have instances where stock graphites were disappointing versus what I hit at the fitting.  For me it was Steelfibers that allowed me to ultimately make the shift because they reacted in my hands just like a steel shaft.

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2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

The more threads, videos (and video comments) I read, the more excited I am about finding the right composite shaft.  My left shoulder is just going to get worse pounding away at it with steel.  A question I have is one brought up by my Truespec fitter in his comment to me that "for a good many of the stock OEM composite shafts, what you test at the fitting cart can often be different than what you get. That it's kind of like Russian Roulette when it comes to composite shafts".  Perhaps it wasn't his intent, but this got me to thinking that only the higher end composite shafts is the best bet.  What do you guys think about this?  🤔

Not sure what he’s talking about because the OEMs order their shafts directly from the shaft manufacturers and when it comes to iron shafts there aren’t any what many called made for shafts(theres some like when the amt red, white and black came for titleist) px has had one or two in the past. And when it comes to graphite most oems are charging a higher fee for that option even if it’s a stock shaft. Ping iirc is a $25 upcharge for recoil over a steel stock offering 

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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