Takomo

[MH15]

On 10/16/2023 at 3:53 PM, MH15 said:

Looks like we have a fair amount of people who have experience with the 101's, and I could use some help with them.

I am looking into getting the 101's but wanted to know how you decided shaft length, type, lie angles, etc... essentially all the info a fitting would give you. Takomo obviously cant be fit pre-purchase as a DTC brand, which is a bit of a bummer. The other obstacle is that club fittings, from what I hear, are more suited to those with a specific brand/club type in mind (Taylormade Stealth irons, for example) - this is relevant because I hear that manufacturers make the same club (ie a 7 iron) with different lie angles from brand to brand which could in turn impact the transferability of fitting results from one brand to another.... Anyone have any advice on how to get fit/decide on what specs to select when ordering from Takomo?

Thanks!!

Following up on my inquiries with Takomo's customer service (they were quick in terms of answer time as well):

They asked the following, with my response to each below:

How tall are you and what is your wrist to floor measurement with shoes on?

I am 6'6" with wrist to floor measurements of 40"
What's your 7 iron carry distance?

7 iron carry distance is about 160 yards
Is your swing tempo slow, medium, or fast?

I would say my swing tempo is medium
Are you looking for a low, medium, or high trajectory?

I am looking for a medium to high trajectory.

They were able to respond with the following suggestions, similar to that of what the Sub70 online fitting tool gave as well:

We would recommend +1.5" shafts with +3° lie angle.

For the shaft model we would recommend the KBS Tour Lite shafts in stiff flex. We usually recommend the KBS Tour Lite shafts for the 101s since it perfectly complement the preferences of the 101s with high launch and spin.

The raw weight of the KBS Tour Lite stiff shafts is 105g.

 

I thought it was great they went into detail about the recommendations and the explanations. I was assuming the +1.5" shaft extensions as well as the KBS Tour Lites S, but the +3 degree loft was a surprise.

Thoughts??

 

[NCDuffer]

3 degree Lie angle change, not loft change…they’re suggesting this since you are tall and your wrist to floor measurement.  You’re 6” taller than me and your wrist to floor is 4” higher and I was fit +1 for lie and plus 1/2” length.  What ultimately matters though is how you deliver the club to the ball.  So, after you have your clubs, go try’em and see if you need to adjust the lie.  They’re getting things into the ball park with the information available.  At Sub70, you can enter your data and see what it says to compare if you like.  

[MH15]

On 10/20/2023 at 12:27 PM, NCDuffer said:

3 degree Lie angle change, not loft change…they’re suggesting this since you are tall and your wrist to floor measurement.  You’re 6” taller than me and your wrist to floor is 4” higher and I was fit +1 for lie and plus 1/2” length.  What ultimately matters though is how you deliver the club to the ball.  So, after you have your clubs, go try’em and see if you need to adjust the lie.  They’re getting things into the ball park with the information available.  At Sub70, you can enter your data and see what it says to compare if you like.  

This makes so much more sense, thank you for the explanation. I think the fitting/equipment terminology is something I need to learn more about, haha. 

In terms of the Sub70 golf comparison - it is precisely spot on. I have a feeling that if/when I get fit, this will be the outcome as well, if not very similar.

[ParNone]

@Steven Senft

I chose the 101s over the 101Ts because of the blade length. I’m definitely not a great striker so having a longer blade length in the 101s made me feel more comfortable about having a slightly larger face to strike. The 101s have more offset as well, so that helped with my tendency for balls to drift/slice Right. As my striking gets more consistent and out the middle I am definitely gonna switch to the 101Ts. Hope this helps. 

[Steven Senft]

21 hours ago, ParNone said:

@Steven Senft

I chose the 101s over the 101Ts because of the blade length. I’m definitely not a great striker so having a longer blade length in the 101s made me feel more comfortable about having a slightly larger face to strike. The 101s have more offset as well, so that helped with my tendency for balls to drift/slice Right. As my striking gets more consistent and out the middle I am definitely gonna switch to the 101Ts. Hope this helps. 

That makes a lot of sense!! Thanks   Let me know how you progress through the 101s, I might have to make the jump from my M4s

[Just_the_Chip]

I play a hand me down iron set from 2002. I'm finally in a position to buy my own set of irons. I went for a fitting that didn't feel right so I never made the purchase. 

I was really afraid of Takomo because I assumed they were just a Social Media Hyped brand for quick sale. Do you guys feel that this stacks up in quality and comparability to p790, T350, and Jpx923?  I get the big brands are paying for logo, and pro players multi-million dollar deals. But I also have no way of testing these.

[cnosil]

54 minutes ago, Shakeyfly said:

I play a hand me down iron set from 2002. I'm finally in a position to buy my own set of irons. I went for a fitting that didn't feel right so I never made the purchase. 

I was really afraid of Takomo because I assumed they were just a Social Media Hyped brand for quick sale. Do you guys feel that this stacks up in quality and comparability to p790, T350, and Jpx923?  I get the big brands are paying for logo, and pro players multi-million dollar deals. But I also have no way of testing these.

Yes, brands like Takomo, Sub70, New Level, and MacGregor to name a few all provide top quality golf clubs.   They may be bit limited on the stock shafts but you shouldn’t question the quality or performance 

 

there was a forum review of the Takomo irons a few months ago; you can read through that thread to get their in hand thoughts   

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by cnosil

[GolfSpy_APH]

43 minutes ago, Shakeyfly said:

I play a hand me down iron set from 2002. I'm finally in a position to buy my own set of irons. I went for a fitting that didn't feel right so I never made the purchase. 

I was really afraid of Takomo because I assumed they were just a Social Media Hyped brand for quick sale. Do you guys feel that this stacks up in quality and comparability to p790, T350, and Jpx923?  I get the big brands are paying for logo, and pro players multi-million dollar deals. But I also have no way of testing these.

Definitely produce a good product. Maybe not all the tech of some of the other big names, but in terms of a very good performing solid product. These and other brands are definitely right there and easy recommendations for those not wanting to spend a small fortune.

[Just_the_Chip]

16 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Definitely produce a good product. Maybe not all the tech of some of the other big names, but in terms of a very good performing solid product. These and other brands are definitely right there and easy recommendations for those not wanting to spend a small fortune.

out of curiosity what tech is missing? 

[GolfSpy_APH]

Just now, Shakeyfly said:

out of curiosity what tech is missing? 

Usually in terms of foam or substance for hollow body designs. Some shaft options as well. Many are limited to KBS, while a great shaft company some prefer others. 

Outside of that the R&D budget just isn't the same. 

Again still great clubs and will perform, but as expected budgets are just not the same.

[Shrek74]

2 hours ago, Shakeyfly said:

I play a hand me down iron set from 2002. I'm finally in a position to buy my own set of irons. I went for a fitting that didn't feel right so I never made the purchase. 

I was really afraid of Takomo because I assumed they were just a Social Media Hyped brand for quick sale. Do you guys feel that this stacks up in quality and comparability to p790, T350, and Jpx923?  I get the big brands are paying for logo, and pro players multi-million dollar deals. But I also have no way of testing these.

Most everyone has stated a lot of the same info - limited shaft and grip choices, no real R&D budget that we know of, and no demo program or fitting options. But what they do offer is a high quality product at a fraction of what the major OEM's ask. For example, a 2023 P790 with the stock Dynamic Gold steel shafts at Golf Galaxy 4-PW are $1400. The Takomo 101's with the stock KBS Tour shaft 4-PW is $489. It's almost a $1000 savings to buy Takomo, and probably more than that after taxes. Will the P790's be longer? Not for everyone, and not a big enough difference to justify $1000 more. Will the P790's be more forgiving? Not for everyone, and not a big enough difference to justify $1000 more.

I play the 101's and have the last 2 seasons. I bought them heads only so I could put my own preferred shaft in them. I wasn't fit for them directly (I was for the shaft from another manufacturer), but I had enough faith that the reviews I saw from people and channels I trust were enough for me to take a leap of faith to build a set and give them a go. Even with custom shafts, ferrules, and grips, I still saved over $500 compared to 2021 gear when all was said and done and they're built to my preferences and specs. Heads only isn't for everyone like I did, and there are several high quality shaft options (KBS Tour, KBS Tour Lite, KBS Max, KBS C-Taper, KBS C-Taper Lite, Atmos Red, Obsidian) to choose from.

Not everyone is ok with a DTC brand. Some are OEM only people no matter what and are willing to pay whatever that costs. But that's not everyone and that's why DTC companies like Sub70, Takomo, Haywood, New Level, and others both exist and are thriving. They offer high quality clubs and really good prices with far better customer support than the OEMs. It's just a matter of which side do you fall on.

[Just_the_Chip]

1 hour ago, Shrek74 said:

Most everyone has stated a lot of the same info - limited shaft and grip choices, no real R&D budget that we know of, and no demo program or fitting options. But what they do offer is a high quality product at a fraction of what the major OEM's ask. For example, a 2023 P790 with the stock Dynamic Gold steel shafts at Golf Galaxy 4-PW are $1400. The Takomo 101's with the stock KBS Tour shaft 4-PW is $489. It's almost a $1000 savings to buy Takomo, and probably more than that after taxes. Will the P790's be longer? Not for everyone, and not a big enough difference to justify $1000 more. Will the P790's be more forgiving? Not for everyone, and not a big enough difference to justify $1000 more.

I play the 101's and have the last 2 seasons. I bought them heads only so I could put my own preferred shaft in them. I wasn't fit for them directly (I was for the shaft from another manufacturer), but I had enough faith that the reviews I saw from people and channels I trust were enough for me to take a leap of faith to build a set and give them a go. Even with custom shafts, ferrules, and grips, I still saved over $500 compared to 2021 gear when all was said and done and they're built to my preferences and specs. Heads only isn't for everyone like I did, and there are several high quality shaft options (KBS Tour, KBS Tour Lite, KBS Max, KBS C-Taper, KBS C-Taper Lite, Atmos Red, Obsidian) to choose from.

Not everyone is ok with a DTC brand. Some are OEM only people no matter what and are willing to pay whatever that costs. But that's not everyone and that's why DTC companies like Sub70, Takomo, Haywood, New Level, and others both exist and are thriving. They offer high quality clubs and really good prices with far better customer support than the OEMs. It's just a matter of which side do you fall on.

Thank you! That's a lot of great points. I'm not looking to break the bank, and I strongly feel any club is going to be an improvement over what I'm currently gaming. I know that I need stiff shafts based upon my recent fitting and swing speed which is a change from the regular I've been using, but aside from all the different models and what they are capable of I'm not certain. I think if I went Takomo, I would go with their standard stiff shaft and go from there. I appreciate the info.

[Shrek74]

4 minutes ago, Shakeyfly said:

Thank you! That's a lot of great points. I'm not looking to break the bank, and I strongly feel any club is going to be an improvement over what I'm currently gaming. I know that I need stiff shafts based upon my recent fitting and swing speed which is a change from the regular I've been using, but aside from all the different models and what they are capable of I'm not certain. I think if I went Takomo, I would go with their standard stiff shaft and go from there. I appreciate the info.

When you went into your fitting before, what shafts did they recommend for you? Other than stiff, what make, model, length, weight, etc? That might lead you to the right shaft option should you go Takomo.

[Just_the_Chip]

1 minute ago, Shrek74 said:

When you went into your fitting before, what shafts did they recommend for you? Other than stiff, what make, model, length, weight, etc? That might lead you to the right shaft option should you go Takomo.

The shaft that was on the club I was fitted for was a Nippon 950GH Neo. 

[Shrek74]

Just now, Shakeyfly said:

The shaft that was on the club I was fitted for was a Nippon 950GH Neo. 

Ok, so that's a 98g raw weight shaft. So the KBS Tour Lite would be one of the closest options. That would be 105g raw weight.

If you have concerns, it might be worth a note over to Takomo CS to ask about their shaft options that might be close to that shaft, if in fact you liked the feel of that shaft.

[MH15]

1 hour ago, Shrek74 said:

Ok, so that's a 98g raw weight shaft. So the KBS Tour Lite would be one of the closest options. That would be 105g raw weight.

If you have concerns, it might be worth a note over to Takomo CS to ask about their shaft options that might be close to that shaft, if in fact you liked the feel of that shaft.

I would second this opinion - their customer service is really great for that type of thing.  They helped me a lot before I ordered my 101's 

[TylorJudd]

11 hours ago, Shakeyfly said:

I play a hand me down iron set from 2002. I'm finally in a position to buy my own set of irons. I went for a fitting that didn't feel right so I never made the purchase. 

I was really afraid of Takomo because I assumed they were just a Social Media Hyped brand for quick sale. Do you guys feel that this stacks up in quality and comparability to p790, T350, and Jpx923?  I get the big brands are paying for logo, and pro players multi-million dollar deals. But I also have no way of testing these.

I game Takomo 301CB and having played TM P770, Titleist T200. No real discernible difference. They won’t have the feel of a mizuno, but they’re up there. 

[dbdors]

10 hours ago, Shrek74 said:

I play the 101's and have the last 2 seasons. I bought them heads only so I could put my own preferred shaft in them. I wasn't fit for them directly (I was for the shaft from another manufacturer), but I had enough faith that the reviews I saw from people and channels I trust were enough for me to take a leap of faith to build a set and give them a go. Even with custom shafts, ferrules, and grips, I still saved over $500 compared to 2021 gear when all was said and done and they're built to my preferences and specs.

This was my exact situation and glad I did it.  I went with the 101's.  I was fit for Accra I series back in 2018 and like them.  So went with with head only and found some Accra Tour V2 90i.

Edited December 15, 2023 by dbdors

[JRDuck40]

I just picked up a set of 101Ts, KBS tour lite stuff and the only complaint I have is the grips. Going from my Lamkin UTX cords to the stock grips installed. Other than that, it is a hot knife thru butter. Mis hits still go straight. They are super forgiving and I have been working the ball and loving it. Amazing set and cannot beat the cost. Also love the free hat and towel. 

[Dave Wilkins]

I also started gaming the 101 irons and March. I’m 68 years old and I have had better luck with these than the previous Mizuno I was playing with. They are wonderful irons. I just wish they’d let you order a cap when yours wears out. 

[Hitthebigball]

Just got into Takomo irons.. buying them for sort of a backup set for when i'm traveling or keeping them in different places I play more often at. Just got the 301CB's installed some Recoil Dart's on them, ordered the 201 in the kbs lite regular which I enjoyed hitting - but noticed they were quite a bit less forgiving on off center strikes than some of my other forged clubs like the Srixon ZX7 II, and just ordered the 101's - had a hard time deciding between those and the 101T's, but I recently owned the P790 in the 2023 edition and noticed the 101's are actually much more similar to those especially in offset - and those were just super easy to hit - I wanted this set to be the "game improvement" set for those corono days on the course. 

Other set that I bag normally are the Ping i230 which are insanely accurate and insanely forgiving for such a small head and "players distance", along with the abovementioned ZX7 II (which I consider to be the best clubs i've ever hit, workable, forgiving to the point of feeling like a game improvement iron, absolute buttery feel/sound, and just simply amazing. 

For reference - I played golf about two decades ago in high school on the team and was around a 5 HC then.  Stopped playing for about 15 years, and recently went to correct my swing as my body's a bit different in mechanics and realized my Taylormade RAC's and R7 had maybe had some technology upgrades.  

 

Went a bit crazy at Roger Dunn utilizing their exchange policy and long story short bought and played a few rounds each then exchanged the JPX923 HL, JPX923 Tour, JPX923 HMP, the Taylormade P770, Taylormade P790 2021 and 2023, Callaway Paradym X, Ping G430, Ping i525, and Ping i230, Titliest T200 2023, Srixon ZX5 MKII and ZX7 MK1 and MKII just on the iron's side.  

 

Out of all of that I deemed the Srixon ZX7 MKII's as the overall best club i'd ever hit after 8 months of changing sets and playing around 2-3 times a week.  I wanted to get the ZX5 MKII's but I really didn't like the look of the plastick stuck on back piece.  The P790's just felt very hard to predict with a hot spot even in the 2023 model, the P770 was amazing but not that forgiving, the Ping G430 was just a bit too big when looking down at it, the i525 was supremely easy to hit far, with a very tall face to it, but the i230's ultimately stopped way better due to their lofts, and for some reason almost seemed more forgiving on off center shots sending them on a better upwards trajectory than the i525 in the same lofts.  The Titleist T200's feel fast, but they also felt a bit dead to me, and every JPX felt amazing - but once I got into the Srixon's I kind of forgot about the Mizuno stuff.  Lastly, the Callaway Paradym X was actually an amazing club, from feel to decent workability and forgiveness.  I just ended up not loving the look of the back of it, and it felt just a bit clunky looking but otherwise after a decade and a half plus of not changing equipment it was really interesting to get a lay of the land. 

 

Sorry, don't mean to hijack this post - but I will say that the Takomo's are just a great looking club at a decent price (not much cheaper than last year's new models on discount from major brands), but very much looking forward to the 101's 

[TylorJudd]

5 hours ago, Hitthebigball said:

Just got into Takomo irons.. buying them for sort of a backup set for when i'm traveling or keeping them in different places I play more often at. Just got the 301CB's installed some Recoil Dart's on them, ordered the 201 in the kbs lite regular which I enjoyed hitting - but noticed they were quite a bit less forgiving on off center strikes than some of my other forged clubs like the Srixon ZX7 II, and just ordered the 101's - had a hard time deciding between those and the 101T's, but I recently owned the P790 in the 2023 edition and noticed the 101's are actually much more similar to those especially in offset - and those were just super easy to hit - I wanted this set to be the "game improvement" set for those corono days on the course. 

Other set that I bag normally are the Ping i230 which are insanely accurate and insanely forgiving for such a small head and "players distance", along with the abovementioned ZX7 II (which I consider to be the best clubs i've ever hit, workable, forgiving to the point of feeling like a game improvement iron, absolute buttery feel/sound, and just simply amazing. 

For reference - I played golf about two decades ago in high school on the team and was around a 5 HC then.  Stopped playing for about 15 years, and recently went to correct my swing as my body's a bit different in mechanics and realized my Taylormade RAC's and R7 had maybe had some technology upgrades.  

 

Went a bit crazy at Roger Dunn utilizing their exchange policy and long story short bought and played a few rounds each then exchanged the JPX923 HL, JPX923 Tour, JPX923 HMP, the Taylormade P770, Taylormade P790 2021 and 2023, Callaway Paradym X, Ping G430, Ping i525, and Ping i230, Titliest T200 2023, Srixon ZX5 MKII and ZX7 MK1 and MKII just on the iron's side.  

 

Out of all of that I deemed the Srixon ZX7 MKII's as the overall best club i'd ever hit after 8 months of changing sets and playing around 2-3 times a week.  I wanted to get the ZX5 MKII's but I really didn't like the look of the plastick stuck on back piece.  The P790's just felt very hard to predict with a hot spot even in the 2023 model, the P770 was amazing but not that forgiving, the Ping G430 was just a bit too big when looking down at it, the i525 was supremely easy to hit far, with a very tall face to it, but the i230's ultimately stopped way better due to their lofts, and for some reason almost seemed more forgiving on off center shots sending them on a better upwards trajectory than the i525 in the same lofts.  The Titleist T200's feel fast, but they also felt a bit dead to me, and every JPX felt amazing - but once I got into the Srixon's I kind of forgot about the Mizuno stuff.  Lastly, the Callaway Paradym X was actually an amazing club, from feel to decent workability and forgiveness.  I just ended up not loving the look of the back of it, and it felt just a bit clunky looking but otherwise after a decade and a half plus of not changing equipment it was really interesting to get a lay of the land. 

 

Sorry, don't mean to hijack this post - but I will say that the Takomo's are just a great looking club at a decent price (not much cheaper than last year's new models on discount from major brands), but very much looking forward to the 101's 

Do you game all 4 models from Takomo?

[Matt K]

Takomo 201 w/ Obsidian graphite shafts

These irons are a cheat code

After a month of research , watching YouTube reviews, I decided to pull the trigger on a new set of irons. My current gamers ( Srixon 785s) are resting comfortably in the garage. As there are no testing sites/loaner programs ( hint,hint Takomo), I decided to go whole hog experimental and ordered the 201's with Takomo's proprietary OBSIDIAN graphite shafts, 95 grams Stiff. THere is NO review on these shafts anywhere on the internet, so this is a maiden review. Takomo's website states that these shafts have a torque of 2. 0, which is quite stiff, but I rationalized it because I was dropping 20 grams off my current gamers ( Project X LZ 5. 5 @ 115 grams). Worst case scenario, I'd have to reshaft these clubs with something more user friendly. Ordering the 201's with graphite shafts and midsize grips is considered "custom ordered", i. e. no take backs, but also painfully slow delivery time. Mine took 10 weeks to arrive, so keep that in mind if you want to play in the spring. I live in Northern Illinois, which normally means outdoor golf in December is a pipe dream. Fortunately, we were blessed a couple weeks of freakishly warm temps ( low 60's) so I was able to test the irons "live". First impression: these are gorgeous sticks. If you have never played forged clubs, these will make you regret not ordering them sooner. Yeah, the top line is a tad thicker than the Srixon's, but you get used to it fairly quickly. My first thought was: wow, these irons FEEL much heavier than the Srixons, but they actually SWING a lot lighter. I carry a 9 handicap and my ball striking is only average at best. I have a hate-hate relationship with my 5 & 6 irons ( haven't carried a 4 iron in over 2 decades). On to the course. I was puring every shot with the 201's. The launch windows were perfectly mid launch. It felt soft off the face, but not mushy. The feedback is outstanding. No problems working the ball in either direction or flighting them up/down. The sound takes some getting used to, especially if you're used to hitting with metal shafts. It's so muted, so subtle, it forces you to concentrate. The results were fantastic. I even tried to hit a 4 iron (!!) bunker shot from 195 yards out and was giggling to myself when it landed 8 feet from the pin. These clubs are almost a full club longer than my Srixons even though they have identical lofts. As an older golfer ( 62) I wanted to make the switch to graphite shafts, as there are hardly any rounds I play where my hands don't ache on the back 9 due to the onset of arthritis in both hands. Last week, I played 3 days in a row, painfree. Can't wait for the Spring.

[Matt K]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:08 PM, Bartfaster said:

Anyone using their wedges? They look great but wondering how they perform.

Ordered a Skyforger 56 degree SW. It's a lot of stick for little money. My philosophy is that in the scoring irons, feel trumps distance. These are forged with the same soft carbon as their CB/MB irons. They are very smooth. Keep in mind the SW/LW have 12 degrees of bounce, which is a lot more than standard and may not be suitable if you play courses with very tight lies. Planning to replace my Vokey SM8 LW  with a Skyforger LW when the time comes.

[Shrek74]

On 12/30/2023 at 2:38 PM, Matt K said:

Takomo 201 w/ Obsidian graphite shafts

As there are no testing sites/loaner programs ( hint,hint Takomo), I decided to go whole hog experimental and ordered the 201's with Takomo's proprietary OBSIDIAN graphite shafts, 95 grams Stiff. THere is NO review on these shafts anywhere on the internet, so this is a maiden review. Takomo's website states that these shafts have a torque of 2. 0, which is quite stiff, but I rationalized it because I was dropping 20 grams off my current gamers ( Project X LZ 5. 5 @ 115 grams).

What is your overall thoughts on the shafts by themselves? A torque of 2.0 suggests very tip stiff and thus lower launching/spinning. Did you notice that? Did you get any feedback letting you know where you hit on the face? I'm going to be going graphite this year sometime due to similar issues (although mostly elbow issues for me), and I'm curious to the overall experience with these since you mention no reviews anywhere.

[Matt K]

These shafts are so smooth. They don't feel stiff at all when you hit them. The launch window is spot on mid launch. Perhaps because they are lighter tahn the LZ 5.5 shafts, they will generate faster ball speeds/ 8-10 yards extra distance compared to similar lofted, metal shafted irons

[Just_the_Chip]

That's what I've been wondering. I have never played with Graphite shafts. I picked up a driving iron just for fun, and it has a hazardous graphite shaft and I love the feel of an iron with a graphite shaft. I'm debating if I should get the KBS tour Lite or Obsidian Stiff. 

I swing my 7 iron about 80-84MPH on average, and currently using a Stiff Flex Steel shaft.  So I guess I'm curious what the difference is or recommendation for a mid-high handicapper in regards to Obsidian 95g or 110g?  Thanks. 

Edited January 4 by Shakeyfly

[Matt K]

what are the specs of your current shafts?

[Matt K]

what are the specs of your current shafts?

I meant in terms of weight. I dropped from 115 gram steel shafts to 95 gram graphite shafts and didn't notice weight difference other than picking up 8-10 yards per club. I'd say you probably don't want to drop more than 20 grams, but it kinda depends on other variables like tempo and how aggressive your transition is. For the record, the Obsidian graphite shaft weights are 75,95 and 115 grams. Hope this helps. 

[Steven Senft]

Takomos or the new RAM irons? asking for a friend