Sacks Parente Putters - 2023 Forum Review

[Willie T]

7 hours ago, cnosil said:

Putter Testing (Random 5' to 50')

Once again I was on the ExPutt to test the Sacks Parente putters.  These sessions were to evaluate how I putted when presented with random distances from 5 to 50 feet.  Like the last test I leveraged the stimp 9 speed.   Since all the putts are perfect surfaces and straight, the success of the putter comes down to being able to make the right length stroke with proper rhythm and controlling face angles.   I hit 101; just hit an extra one in the first session, putts with each putter and the results and my assessment are below.  

The Numbers

The below chart shows overall face angle at impact, leave distances, and make percentages with each putter.   I also highlighted the best number in green. 

Overall it appears that my gamer has a slight advantage over the other putters except in make percentage; which is really the metric that matters most.  During the putting sessions,  I did feel like I had more "feel" for how the putter was moving with the Sacks Parente putters  My current thought is that with a bit more practice the Sacks Parente putters would out perform the the TaylorMade putter.  

Like I did with the 10 foot and in post I did a closer look at the detailed charts to see if anything stood out.   

Path

While not very influential in a putters performance I still wanted to look at path.   The axis values are path and putt distance to see if distance has an influence on the measured metric.

The TM-180 path is definitely left biased but most of the paths fall within 1 degree left or right.  

The MC3 is a bit more right biased with most falling within the 1 degree range but a tendency to push the putter extreme right.

Path with the DRAC is probably the best overall, but with a more frequent tendency to have some extreme paths of grater than 3* which based on Sasho Mackenzie's information will start to have enough influence to miss putts.

 

Face Angle at Impact

This is the most crucial metric when looking at how the putter performs since face angle is the factor that influences if the ball starts on the players intended line.  

 

Looking at the impact angle values for the TM, values are slightly right biased but there is a tendency to shut the face more on longer putts and excessively leave the face open on shorter putts.   Quite a few putts with 0* face angle.  

The Sacks Parente MC3 is definitely a bit more left biased.  Pattern is centered around .25-.5* left.   While not bad, this starts to move the ball left of the hole as putts start getting into the 10-15* range. 

The DRAC is an interesting set of data at is is right biased but frequent putts within .5*.   Problem like the TM is the shorter range putts.  

 

Performance Assessment?

At this point we've done some controlled tests of the putters and they are fundamentally pretty close in performance.   I'd say that the putter has a slight influence in what type of performance a player will see; which is why a fitting or trying a putter is important.   It was a topic of discussion during my fitting with Sacks Parente that Aki liked the idea of the center shafted versus my toe hang putter to try and get the face a little more square on the short putts.  As I look at the data, my gut feeling is that I tend to be a bit more wild with the face angle using the center shafted putters.  Basically it is either good or bad; is this a technique problem or a putter problem?   I read a lot of material about putters and putting and depending on which coach you decide to follow it could be either and depends on what your beliefs are. 

What Now?

Time to get these putters outside and see how they perform on real greens.  Unfortunately,  I don't have a portable sensor to track putter metrics so we will look at make percentages, and start looking at strokes gained and proximity.    Just need the weather to start cooperating

 

 

This data along with the other posted has really emphasized just how little a face needs to move to really have an effect on roll distance.  We used to remind newbies in house building that an 1/8th of inch out here is a lot by the time you get there...  I can see how the ExPutt sim can really help one tweak the delivery of the putter face as it relates to path.  Great work here. 

[cnosil]

30 minutes ago, billpierce said:

During my discussions with AKI - we absolutely discussed my path, and that I had a slight cut to my path which was causing me to push things, right!

The putter we selected was to address that issue. Not sure if i am only one with this fault!  

A cut path will have little influence on the direction the ball travels.  Start direction is caused by face angle; most will say 85-95% control on startline.  A putting coach I have worked with sent me a database of strokes he had measured and 99% of them and a right or left biased stroke;  almost no one has a zero'd out stroke. 

Here is an instgram post that shows even extreme pats can start a ball online if the face is in the correct orientation.  People incorrectly thing that you can put hook or slice spin on a ball.  

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0bv6G8rjlO/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

[billpierce]

Interesting post, thanks for the link!  I will pay attention to face. I can say the Sachs Parente putter feels as if it closes the face. 

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, Willie T said:

This data along with the other posted has really emphasized just how little a face needs to move to really have an effect on roll distance.  We used to remind newbies in house building that an 1/8th of inch out here is a lot by the time you get there...  I can see how the ExPutt sim can really help one tweak the delivery of the putter face as it relates to path.  Great work here. 

face angle is king when it comes to putting and 1* is generally the gold standard since that is needed to make an 8 foot putt.  

Referencing Quintic: https://www.quinticballroll.com/Quintic_Ball_Roll_Face_Angle.html

A putter face that is 2 degrees open at impact will miss the hole from 5 feet! For a putt to go in at 8 feet the angle of the face needs to less than 1 degree open or closed. Increase the distance to 15 feet and the putter face needs to less than 0.5 of a degree open or closed

Most people don't have an ExPutt to check face angle, but it is easy to setup a station.   I copied this from Phil Kenyon's site:

Use a ruler to make sure the gate is 5cm wide and located 12 inches from the ball and along your start line. This will give you 0.75 degree of error, which I consider to be a good level of accuracy for a club golfer. To put this into the context of a 10ft putt, if you’re start line is just one degree out, you are hitting the edge of the hole [and missing]. Training your aim to become laser-like buys you some stroke error allowance.

[GolfSpy_APH]

11 hours ago, cnosil said:

Putter Testing (Random 5' to 50')

Once again I was on the ExPutt to test the Sacks Parente putters.  These sessions were to evaluate how I putted when presented with random distances from 5 to 50 feet.  Like the last test I leveraged the stimp 9 speed.   Since all the putts are perfect surfaces and straight, the success of the putter comes down to being able to make the right length stroke with proper rhythm and controlling face angles.   I hit 101; just hit an extra one in the first session, putts with each putter and the results and my assessment are below.  

The Numbers

The below chart shows overall face angle at impact, leave distances, and make percentages with each putter.   I also highlighted the best number in green. 

Overall it appears that my gamer has a slight advantage over the other putters except in make percentage; which is really the metric that matters most.  During the putting sessions,  I did feel like I had more "feel" for how the putter was moving with the Sacks Parente putters  My current thought is that with a bit more practice the Sacks Parente putters would out perform the the TaylorMade putter.  

Like I did with the 10 foot and in post I did a closer look at the detailed charts to see if anything stood out.   

Path

While not very influential in a putters performance I still wanted to look at path.   The axis values are path and putt distance to see if distance has an influence on the measured metric.

The TM-180 path is definitely left biased but most of the paths fall within 1 degree left or right.  

The MC3 is a bit more right biased with most falling within the 1 degree range but a tendency to push the putter extreme right.

Path with the DRAC is probably the best overall, but with a more frequent tendency to have some extreme paths of grater than 3* which based on Sasho Mackenzie's information will start to have enough influence to miss putts.

 

Face Angle at Impact

This is the most crucial metric when looking at how the putter performs since face angle is the factor that influences if the ball starts on the players intended line.  

 

Looking at the impact angle values for the TM, values are slightly right biased but there is a tendency to shut the face more on longer putts and excessively leave the face open on shorter putts.   Quite a few putts with 0* face angle.  

The Sacks Parente MC3 is definitely a bit more left biased.  Pattern is centered around .25-.5* left.   While not bad, this starts to move the ball left of the hole as putts start getting into the 10-15* range. 

The DRAC is an interesting set of data at is is right biased but frequent putts within .5*.   Problem like the TM is the shorter range putts.  

 

Performance Assessment?

At this point we've done some controlled tests of the putters and they are fundamentally pretty close in performance.   I'd say that the putter has a slight influence in what type of performance a player will see; which is why a fitting or trying a putter is important.   It was a topic of discussion during my fitting with Sacks Parente that Aki liked the idea of the center shafted versus my toe hang putter to try and get the face a little more square on the short putts.  As I look at the data, my gut feeling is that I tend to be a bit more wild with the face angle using the center shafted putters.  Basically it is either good or bad; is this a technique problem or a putter problem?   I read a lot of material about putters and putting and depending on which coach you decide to follow it could be either and depends on what your beliefs are. 

What Now?

Time to get these putters outside and see how they perform on real greens.  Unfortunately,  I don't have a portable sensor to track putter metrics so we will look at make percentages, and start looking at strokes gained and proximity.    Just need the weather to start cooperating

 

 

Great stuff @cnosil

Love the detail and insights your providing do far. Looking forward to on course results and seeing what putter will ultimately take that spot in your bag.

[billpierce]

Another project - making some gates!  I think this is a great test and training aid at same time.....

[cnosil]

18 minutes ago, billpierce said:

Another project - making some gates!  I think this is a great test and training aid at same time.....

It can be anything, tees, bottles, cups.   

[BallsLeon]

Going to have give that drill a try! Lots of good info @cnosil, thanks!

[Willie T]

A great platform to use as a starter is a metal yard/meter stick…set the 5cm gate at 12” and see if you can roll the putt not only thru the gate but the full length of the stick….

[billpierce]

Maybe sone golfspy branded gates. Good Xmas stocking stuffer

[MuniGolfer]

Sorry for the delay in posting updates. We had my wife's and twins' birthdays as well as two holiday parties over the last two weeks. I did get in my first two test days last Wednesday and yesterday. I will be posting a summary as my initial impressions, but here is my detailed weekly update.

Day 1:

Today I just wanted to get a feel for the Sacks Parente 91. I have been putting around on carpet at home, but it was a little different on the indoor green at the golf facility I am a member at. I had a lot more room, for one, and the speed was closer to a real green so I could really start to see how this thing works for me. After some warmups, just putting around to different holes, I did two of my normal putting drills. The first was distance ladders, where you put a tee in the ground a putter length away, and then try to putt the ball past that. Then the next ball past where that ball ended up, and so on and so forth until you putt one short of that mark. The number of putts you hit is the measurement you keep track of. I had quite a few that went more than a foot past the previous, where the usual goal is to be less than 6 inches so you can get as many as possible. However, I still ended up in my average range of total putts. For the first go, I thought that was pretty good. I didn't expect to beat my best with putters I have been practicing with for a long time and on an artificial green for the first time this offseason.

The second drill is the Luke Donald pressure par drill. You take 5 balls and set them at 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 feet at different spots around a hole; then go through your routine and count how many you make. You then repeat this for 3 more different holes and count the total. This is supposed to simulate pressure lengths you may leave yourself to save par. Again, I ended up in an average range for me. In this case, this was really good, because this indoor green is so subtle and hard to read that I think on grass, my number may have been in the high range to nearing a personal best. Every putt felt like it had a chance when I hit it

The main things I noticed on the day were that I didn't have any obvious pushes or pulls, and distance dispersion was very consistent. I never put myself in 3-putt territory on any misses.

Day 2:

Today I wanted to do some harder testing with some data. I started with some 12 foot putts to warmup. I hit 6 putts with each putter, mixing up the order with the two different locations. Right off the bat, I noticed the SP had much better distance dispersion than the other two. All my misses were short tap-ins, where the others had some 2-3 footers, and I had one really bad pull with the Scotty.

I then moved to a test where I tried to have as consistent a backstroke length as possible with putts from the center, heel and toe, tracking the dispersion of each. You can see in the picture below how I set this up by always putting the ball in front of a tee in the ground, and then laying a tee down where I wanted to take my backstroke to. It took a few takes to make sure I got consistent strokes, but I felt like the results matched what I was seeing in use.

Aki, from Sacks Parente, thought the Scotty would have higher MOI than the Piretti, due to the weight being pushed further to the edges, despite the Piretti's heavier weight. I have noticed that I can get loopy with my stroke on the Scotty, though, so I came into this not knowing what to expect. As you can see below, the SP 91 won hands down, with about a 6-inch spread in dispersion.  The Piretti had about an 8-inch spread, and was noticeably worse out of the heel. The Scotty had right around a 2-foot spread. All three had good feedback when you missed, but the SP kept rolling out more than you would expect.

Sacks Parente 91, then the Piretti, and the Scotty Cameron results of my simple MOI test.

I then did some distance control testing from 30 feet to a few different holes. The average dispersions were as follows:

SP: 3.5' short to 2' long, average - 1.8 feet
Piretti: 5' short to 1 foot long, average - just over 3 feet
Scotty Cameron: 6' short to 6' long, just under 4 feet

It appears that I tend to miss putts short, which makes sense. I have always been kind of a die it in the hole putter, but it is also clear why I have had so many 3 putts the last couple years. Leaving myself outside of 3 feet has been a consistent issue. This is getting me excited to get the SP out on the course. One anecdotal comment, though, I noticed the Piretti always seemed to have the smoothest roll. The Scotty would skip often, which you could really hear on the artificial turf, and the SP would on occasion. The lofts between the 3 putters are 2 degrees for the Piretti, 3 for the SP, and 4 for the Scotty, at least by factory spec. I need to have them actually checked to be sure, though. I my consider having the SP loft adjusted, but we will see how things go as I continue.

I then did testing from 6 feet with putts that did not have much break, really to see how consistent they each were. The SP had an 83% make rate, with the Piretti and Scotty both hanging around 68-69%. I noticed the same roll performance as I did with the longer putts, and the distance dispersion on misses mirrored the previous 2 tests. I was actually surprised by some of the Piretti's misses because it generally always felt really smooth right off the face.

I also noticed that the SP just seems easy to putt with. It just falls into the ball without much effort. I think the Piretti is just too heavy for me. It feels like work to make a stroke and is hard to get the ball to the hole on longer putts. 

One last comment on feel. If the Scotty is like a Mizuno forged blade, the SP 91 is like a forged, hollow-body iron. Sort of like the Taylormade P770. It is still solid, but a little more of a hollow crack than a buttery thwack. I think it is mostly the difference between the steel shaft and the super light graphite. I wouldn't term it as bad, though. In fact, I really like the feel and sound of the SP 91, it's just different. 

I am hoping next week to get this on to the new Uneekor system that the hitting center has. From my research, it isn't as good as the Quintic, but is supposed to give me some numbers on how I am delivering the putter head to the ball with dynamic loft, and it is included with my pass. that it works.

[cnosil]

Putter Testing (20' Center/Heel/Toe)

Took some vacation and after visiting HQ I hit the putting green at the local golf course to do see how the putters reacted to center/heel/toe strikes.  This is always a reader favorite to judge forgiveness/MOI and it is an especially hot topic with the Odyssey AI release.  I picked a distance of 20' because I felt that would start to show a decent dispersion pattern.  Putts of 10' or less might have some separation,  I didn't think it would be enough to start putting a player into a second putt length that would create too much pressure and players don't generally start missing the center by significant amounts until they got farther away from the hole.  

Setup

• I looked for a relatively flat 20' putt (the putt actually broke a little right)
• setup a ghost hole at 20'
• At the start I put 5 tees into the ground
  • 2 that were placed at my big toes to ensure stance was square
  • 1 tee that marked ball position
  • 2 tees that marked the forward and backstroke lengths where a good strike rolled 20'  and to set a known stroke length to try and hit every putt with the same rhythm and not react to where the ball ended up.
  • 
• For the heel and toe strikes I took my normal setup with the ball setup on the heel and toe side of center.  I do question this approach since as a player I don't think we often setup this way and it gives a slightly skewed result.  As players we generally setup center and it is the result of a stroke issue that results in heel/toe strikes. 

 

Results

 

TM-180 (Top to bottom: Center/Heel/Toe)

As seen by my ExPutt number the ball tended to be left of the hole.  Overall good dispersion pattern for the 10 balls with all three strike locations.   With the putter being a blade,  I was a bit surprised at how consistent the off center strikes were. 

 

 

MC3 (Top to Bottom:  Center/Heel/Toe)

Slightly better distribution that the TaylorMade as would be expected due to the putter having a higher MOI to reduce twisting.

 

DRAC (Top to Bottom:  Center/Heel/Toe)

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the DRAC appeared to be a little hotter and I did have a tendency to roll the ball past the hole a little more frequently that the other two putters.    After this test,  I may just hit the ball off the toe all the time  

 

 

Summary

A couple of observations

• How consistent I was with all the putters.  I thought the mallets would perform better than the blade.
• Lots of schools of thought on how firmly to hold the putter.  I hold the putter with about a 3 to 4 out of 10 level of firmness.  This level of firmness essentially prevents the putter from twisting at impact even when I hit the center.  

Right now I am liking the Sacks Parente putters.  I like the weighting and can maintain a really consistent rhythm.  These putters are almost making me think that Putting is Easy!

 

[Willie T]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Putter Testing (20' Center/Heel/Toe)

Took some vacation and after visiting HQ I hit the putting green at the local golf course to do see how the putters reacted to center/heel/toe strikes.  This is always a reader favorite to judge forgiveness/MOI and it is an especially hot topic with the Odyssey AI release.  I picked a distance of 20' because I felt that would start to show a decent dispersion pattern.  Putts of 10' or less might have some separation,  I didn't think it would be enough to start putting a player into a second putt length that would create too much pressure and players don't generally start missing the center by significant amounts until they got farther away from the hole.  

Setup

• I looked for a relatively flat 20' putt (the putt actually broke a little right)
• setup a ghost hole at 20'
• At the start I put 5 tees into the ground
  • 2 that were placed at my big toes to ensure stance was square
  • 1 tee that marked ball position
  • 2 tees that marked the forward and backstroke lengths where a good strike rolled 20'  and to set a known stroke length to try and hit every putt with the same rhythm and not react to where the ball ended up.
  • 
• For the heel and toe strikes I took my normal setup with the ball setup on the heel and toe side of center.  I do question this approach since as a player I don't think we often setup this way and it gives a slightly skewed result.  As players we generally setup center and it is the result of a stroke issue that results in heel/toe strikes. 

 

Results

 

TM-180 (Top to bottom: Center/Heel/Toe)

As seen by my ExPutt number the ball tended to be left of the hole.  Overall good dispersion pattern for the 10 balls with all three strike locations.   With the putter being a blade,  I was a bit surprised at how consistent the off center strikes were. 

 

 

MC3 (Top to Bottom:  Center/Heel/Toe)

Slightly better distribution that the TaylorMade as would be expected due to the putter having a higher MOI to reduce twisting.

 

DRAC (Top to Bottom:  Center/Heel/Toe)

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the DRAC appeared to be a little hotter and I did have a tendency to roll the ball past the hole a little more frequently that the other two putters.    After this test,  I may just hit the ball off the toe all the time  

 

 

Summary

A couple of observations

• How consistent I was with all the putters.  I thought the mallets would perform better than the blade.
• Lots of schools of thought on how firmly to hold the putter.  I hold the putter with about a 3 to 4 out of 10 level of firmness.  This level of firmness essentially prevents the putter from twisting at impact even when I hit the center.  

Right now I am liking the Sacks Parente putters.  I like the weighting and can maintain a really consistent rhythm.  These putters are almost making me think that Putting is Easy!

 

Really digging the testing - the tees being used to make the putts as consistent as possible I will have to do….

[Josh Parker]

9 hours ago, cnosil said:

Putter Testing (20' Center/Heel/Toe)

Took some vacation and after visiting HQ I hit the putting green at the local golf course to do see how the putters reacted to center/heel/toe strikes.  This is always a reader favorite to judge forgiveness/MOI and it is an especially hot topic with the Odyssey AI release.  I picked a distance of 20' because I felt that would start to show a decent dispersion pattern.  Putts of 10' or less might have some separation,  I didn't think it would be enough to start putting a player into a second putt length that would create too much pressure and players don't generally start missing the center by significant amounts until they got farther away from the hole.  

Setup

• I looked for a relatively flat 20' putt (the putt actually broke a little right)
• setup a ghost hole at 20'
• At the start I put 5 tees into the ground
  • 2 that were placed at my big toes to ensure stance was square
  • 1 tee that marked ball position
  • 2 tees that marked the forward and backstroke lengths where a good strike rolled 20'  and to set a known stroke length to try and hit every putt with the same rhythm and not react to where the ball ended up.
  • 
• For the heel and toe strikes I took my normal setup with the ball setup on the heel and toe side of center.  I do question this approach since as a player I don't think we often setup this way and it gives a slightly skewed result.  As players we generally setup center and it is the result of a stroke issue that results in heel/toe strikes. 

 

Results

 

TM-180 (Top to bottom: Center/Heel/Toe)

As seen by my ExPutt number the ball tended to be left of the hole.  Overall good dispersion pattern for the 10 balls with all three strike locations.   With the putter being a blade,  I was a bit surprised at how consistent the off center strikes were. 

 

 

MC3 (Top to Bottom:  Center/Heel/Toe)

Slightly better distribution that the TaylorMade as would be expected due to the putter having a higher MOI to reduce twisting.

 

DRAC (Top to Bottom:  Center/Heel/Toe)

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the DRAC appeared to be a little hotter and I did have a tendency to roll the ball past the hole a little more frequently that the other two putters.    After this test,  I may just hit the ball off the toe all the time  

 

 

Summary

A couple of observations

• How consistent I was with all the putters.  I thought the mallets would perform better than the blade.
• Lots of schools of thought on how firmly to hold the putter.  I hold the putter with about a 3 to 4 out of 10 level of firmness.  This level of firmness essentially prevents the putter from twisting at impact even when I hit the center.  

Right now I am liking the Sacks Parente putters.  I like the weighting and can maintain a really consistent rhythm.  These putters are almost making me think that Putting is Easy!

 

Great testing and results.  With the two test putters, what are the big differences you have noticed between the two?  

[cnosil]

5 hours ago, Josh Parker said:

Great testing and results.  With the two test putters, what are the big differences you have noticed between the two?  

Shape      I actually only say that partially in jest as people do have preferences in how a putter looks.  Also, depending on what putting philosophies you follow shape could be huge or it could be insignificant.  

Alignment:   The MC has lines the length of the putter head which seems to make setting up square consistently a little easier than with the DRAC.

Ball Speed: If you are a player that tends to leave the ball a little short, the DRAC seems to have a little more ball speed off the face.  

[cnosil]

Weather was nice today and the forecast for tomorrow is rain so I ran out for a quick nine to give the DRAC some time in the bag.   

How'd I do?   The typical model for evaluation is strokes gained so I plugged my putting numbers (https://www.golfrankingstats.com/strokes-gained-calculator/) in and here is how I compared to a PGA pro:

Break even point was a 1 handicapper with a strokes gained of -0.07.

The only bad putt of the round was the first putt on 9 where I left the first putt 12 feet short and then drained it for a 2 putt par.   Not a lot of long putts but all the second putts were inside of 2 feet and beyond the hole.   I really felt like I was starting the ball online and the only reason for the misses was my read was a little off.  

Edited December 17, 2023 by cnosil

[JohnSmalls]

@cnosil  your testing is really starting to make me consider ditching my Birdie Ball mat for an Ex-putt.

[cnosil]

11 minutes ago, JohnSmalls said:

@cnosil  your testing is really starting to make me consider ditching my Birdie Ball mat for an Ex-putt.

I really like my exputt and I based on my readings the new model is a big improvement.  Like a launch monitor it simply gives information and you have to figure out how to improve your actual skills.  Also I am a little more mechanical in my thought process so dialing in distances based on stroke length is where I think its strength is.  The drawback is you can't really "see" what that distance looks like.   Ideally I'd have a 50 foot open space in my house to actually roll the ball that far.   It would also be nice it it had a way to export the data;  I entered it all in an Excel spreadsheet.   

 

 

[MuniGolfer]

It was warm enough in Utah to get in 9-holes on Saturday. It was hard putting on the winter greens. They were rock hard on approach and balls would take huge bounces, but were extremely Slow and bumpy to putt on. It made for quite the mental challenge getting used to the speed. As such, my putting stats (SwingU breakdown below) didn’t match how I felt i putted. The SP 91 just felt easy. It felt like putting used to feel for me, just athletic and reaction to what I am seeing. It was easier to get used to the speed than I think it would have been with either of my old putters. My short misses I felt were mostly due to bumps throwing the ball offline. The entire group remarked often how hard the approach and putting was, but it was fun to get out. Hopefully I can get the putter on the Uneekor system this week.
 

[cnosil]

Random thoughts about putting

the comments below are really just random thoughts about putting and the things that are going through my head as I evaluate these putters.  

I’ve been doing a lot of carpet putting since the test started.  I’ve got the putters as sitting next to my desk and when I take a break I just roll some putts.   Obviously, part of these practice session is to work on improvement.  The primary skills you can work on are aim and stroke with the goal of rolling the ball where you aimed.   
 

I bring that up because as golfers on this forum our intent is to get better and we often look toward equipment to help us get better.   one of the claims about the Sacks Parente is that it results in better stroke, better accuracy, and better distance control.  I did my initial data capture because I wanted minimum time with the putter to see if improvement was seen out of the box and not after practicing with the putters.   After that data collection I was disappointed with my performance so as mentioned in the first paragraph I have been practicing more and also researching about how to improve my putting.  
 

when looking at the putting, there are several theories on the influence of putters

• Different putters influence the stroke so we should find a putter that matches up with what the player does
• Find a putter you like the looks of and figure out how to make it work; what does the putter want us to do during the stroke.
• putters and their characteristics will make us better putters.   
• Putters are just a piece of metal on the end of a stick and we as players need to develop our putting skills.  Any putter will work if you have the right skills. 

I posted earlier in this thread that the weight of these putters didn’t feel any different than any of my other putters.  I need to amend that comment.   I picked up some of my other putters including my gamer and they feel significantly different and on the heavy side.   
 

eager to do some more on course testing but the benefit is that I have been improving basic putting skills.   

[Josh Parker]

33 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Random thoughts about putting

the comments below are really just random thoughts about putting and the things that are going through my head as I evaluate these putters.  

I’ve been doing a lot of carpet putting since the test started.  I’ve got the putters as sitting next to my desk and when I take a break I just roll some putts.   Obviously, part of these practice session is to work on improvement.  The primary skills you can work on are aim and stroke with the goal of rolling the ball where you aimed.   
 

I bring that up because as golfers on this forum our intent is to get better and we often look toward equipment to help us get better.   one of the claims about the Sacks Parente is that it results in better stroke, better accuracy, and better distance control.  I did my initial data capture because I wanted minimum time with the putter to see if improvement was seen out of the box and not after practicing with the putters.   After that data collection I was disappointed with my performance so as mentioned in the first paragraph I have been practicing more and also researching about how to improve my putting.  
 

when looking at the putting, there are several theories on the influence of putters

• Different putters influence the stroke so we should find a putter that matches up with what the player does
• Find a putter you like the looks of and figure out how to make it work; what does the putter want us to do during the stroke.
• putters and their characteristics will make us better putters.   
• Putters are just a piece of metal on the end of a stick and we as players need to develop our putting skills.  Any putter will work if you have the right skills. 

I posted earlier in this thread that the weight of these putters didn’t feel any different than any of my other putters.  I need to amend that comment.   I picked up some of my other putters including my gamer and they feel significantly different and on the heavy side.   
 

eager to do some more on course testing but the benefit is that I have been improving basic putting skills.   

Great points! 

What I found interesting in almost all of the testers for Sacks Parente was that what everyone originally picked out ended up not being the one they were fit for.  Sometimes we have to look past "looks" and go for what works for our stroke.  Just like any other club in the bag and probably more important than any other club.  

 

[Shrek74]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Random thoughts about putting

the comments below are really just random thoughts about putting and the things that are going through my head as I evaluate these putters.  

I’ve been doing a lot of carpet putting since the test started.  I’ve got the putters as sitting next to my desk and when I take a break I just roll some putts.   Obviously, part of these practice session is to work on improvement.  The primary skills you can work on are aim and stroke with the goal of rolling the ball where you aimed.   
 

I bring that up because as golfers on this forum our intent is to get better and we often look toward equipment to help us get better.   one of the claims about the Sacks Parente is that it results in better stroke, better accuracy, and better distance control.  I did my initial data capture because I wanted minimum time with the putter to see if improvement was seen out of the box and not after practicing with the putters.   After that data collection I was disappointed with my performance so as mentioned in the first paragraph I have been practicing more and also researching about how to improve my putting.  
 

when looking at the putting, there are several theories on the influence of putters

• Different putters influence the stroke so we should find a putter that matches up with what the player does
• Find a putter you like the looks of and figure out how to make it work; what does the putter want us to do during the stroke.
• putters and their characteristics will make us better putters.   
• Putters are just a piece of metal on the end of a stick and we as players need to develop our putting skills.  Any putter will work if you have the right skills. 

I posted earlier in this thread that the weight of these putters didn’t feel any different than any of my other putters.  I need to amend that comment.   I picked up some of my other putters including my gamer and they feel significantly different and on the heavy side.   
 

eager to do some more on course testing but the benefit is that I have been improving basic putting skills.   

I may be out on a limb here, but I really think it's a combination of the 4.

We always start out looking for something that catches our eye, that we like the look of. But then we go for a fitting to see how our stroke works and what details work for that stroke - lie, loft, hosel type, weight, etc. We then take that final putter that we like the look of and that has the best details and we work on our stroke to improve our skills.

Granted not enough people get fit for their putter, so it tends to be just looks & development in the end, and even more so just what we like the look of is what we use.

But I still hold that it's a combination of those theories that make the best overall decision and match with putters.

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, Shrek74 said:

But I still hold that it's a combination of those theories that make the best overall decision and match with putters.

It all depends on whose philosophies that you follow.  I think the find a putter to match your stroke and figure out how to make the putter work are completely opposite approaches.   The match your stroke is typically done through a detailed fitting.  The second is browse the rack, find a putter, and then putt with it until it works; which is more in line with putters are a piece of metal on a stick and it doesn't matter if I get fit or how it looks.  

I think I fall into the category that fitting is important as I have seen the influence different putters have on a stroke via stroke testing on Puttlab,  but also that you need to develop skills.  During practice it is important for the player to understand how the body works and moves the putter.   I also think the skill development aspect disproves the "zero torque" concept.  My hands via grip pressure can prevent the putter from twisting/torquing.

It's just interesting all the theories out there on what it takes to putt better. 

[Willie T]

7 hours ago, cnosil said:

Random thoughts about putting

the comments below are really just random thoughts about putting and the things that are going through my head as I evaluate these putters.  

I’ve been doing a lot of carpet putting since the test started.  I’ve got the putters as sitting next to my desk and when I take a break I just roll some putts.   Obviously, part of these practice session is to work on improvement.  The primary skills you can work on are aim and stroke with the goal of rolling the ball where you aimed.   
 

I bring that up because as golfers on this forum our intent is to get better and we often look toward equipment to help us get better.   one of the claims about the Sacks Parente is that it results in better stroke, better accuracy, and better distance control.  I did my initial data capture because I wanted minimum time with the putter to see if improvement was seen out of the box and not after practicing with the putters.   After that data collection I was disappointed with my performance so as mentioned in the first paragraph I have been practicing more and also researching about how to improve my putting.  
 

when looking at the putting, there are several theories on the influence of putters

• Different putters influence the stroke so we should find a putter that matches up with what the player does
• Find a putter you like the looks of and figure out how to make it work; what does the putter want us to do during the stroke.
• putters and their characteristics will make us better putters.   
• Putters are just a piece of metal on the end of a stick and we as players need to develop our putting skills.  Any putter will work if you have the right skills. 

I posted earlier in this thread that the weight of these putters didn’t feel any different than any of my other putters.  I need to amend that comment.   I picked up some of my other putters including my gamer and they feel significantly different and on the heavy side.   
 

eager to do some more on course testing but the benefit is that I have been improving basic putting skills.   

A good pondering there….as I was reading the four theories of influence with putters (you need to patent that) I was thinking about my own adventures with the AI-One and the kindred putters I’m testing. I could add that each golfer’s technique requires a putter that “fits”….kinda like a guitar neck that fits the hand (no matter the name on the headstock).  I do have a weight question - do you think the balance point of the SP putters affects how heavy the putter “feels”? 

[cnosil]

22 hours ago, Willie T said:

A good pondering there….as I was reading the four theories of influence with putters (you need to patent that)

I do have a weight question - do you think the balance point of the SP putters affects how heavy the putter “feels”? 

I really can't patent those theories since I learned them from various putting instructors that I have worked with or study their work.   The the fit the putter to the stroke and the fit the player to the putter I learned from Bruce Rearick;  I learned a lot about putting and the putting stroke from him over about 4 years.    The putter will make us better is kind of what I think Edel and Sack Parente are saying.  The putter makes no difference and it is the players skills is Geoff Mangum theory.  

 

Most definitely the balance point is what gives the putter the weight.  The first thing you are told to do is hold the putter by the head and it feels almost weightless.  Flip it around and it feels like any other putter.  It also shows why putter swing weight isn't that big of a deal since these putters are extremely high on their scale.  During the fitting call with SP I think he said it is in the G range.   My current feel with the putters is great and I am really liking how they move through the stroke.  

[cnosil]

Went out this morning to try and get 9 holes in but it was slow and had to leave after 6 holes.  took out the MC3 today to get it some course time.  Here are the strokes gained numbers against a PGA pro.   

[cnosil]

I was browsing Youtube this morning and TXG reviewed the Sacks Parente putters.  I don''t have access to the Quintic system, but what they discuss aligns with what I am seeing with my putters.

 

[MuniGolfer]

My First impressions are up.

[cnosil]

On 10/17/2023 at 7:01 AM, MuniGolfer said:

 

Not all was roses, however. There was a strange smell, kind of citrusy but sickening, to the grip. Maybe it was the solvent from putting it on? I don’t know if anyone else knows this smell, I had hoarder parents, but it smells like really old tape adhesive.

Yes,  smelled like grip solvent when I was checking out my putter.   No different that when I change my own grips.  The smell is gone now.  

[revkev]

I’ve been understandably busy the past few weeks. Did get to the putting green today. Hit 15 20 footers and holed 4 of them with zero 3 putts. That’s remarkable for me, not the zero 3 putts but to hole that many from 20 feet.