What is your biggest surprise from a golf fitting

[Wu1f]

I started playing golf again after 15 years away from the game (I'm now 67).  My equipment was 20-25 years old, and my goal was to build some consistency, take a few lessons, then do a full bag fitting.

For four months, I took a few lessons, played 3-4 times per week and hit the range on most of the days I didn't play.  I finally felt ready for the fitting.

I had read ads from fitters stating they were club agnostic, and I decided it would be in my best interest to do the same.  Nevertheless, I had read dozens of reviews and there were a few clubs I suspected would end up working best for me.  Like many, I had the impression that Titleist clubs were for golfers much better than I.  In the days leading up to the fitting, I visited websites for several suppliers, playing with their apps designed to help users identify the likely best fit for them.  I visited the Titleist site and found that lefty sets for most of their irons were no longer available.  A few days later, I saw that they would be releasing updated versions of all their irons.  I contacted Titleist and they confirmed that they had sold out of the lefty heads and would not have them until the updated version was released.  Even though I doubted Titleist would work for me, I nevertheless wanted to at least be able to consider them.  I decided to delay my fitting for a few weeks until the fitter confirmed they had be received the lefty  updated irons.  (This is very unlike me as I tend to be quite impatient.)  

The fitter reiterated their goal to be brand agnostic, then asked if I had any preferences.  I explained my goal was to do the same.  He had me hit a few 7-irons with my old set, then selected the first candidate, which was one of the brands routinely recognized for their forgiveness.  He had me try distance, player distance, game improvement and super game improvement versions and then did the same with two other brands.  With each, I hit the player distance best, which was the first surprise for me.  My driver speed is low to mid-80's and with that and my handicap, I had expected to end up in the GI or SGI category.  We went through a handful of other brands, and eventually got to the Titleists.  He started me with the T350 which I hit pretty well.  Then he had me try the T200 and the T150.  Much to my surprise, the T200 ended up being the best club for me.  We tried a number of shafts in it, then a few tweaks to the loft/lie angle.  By that time, I had probably hit a couple hundred balls and was exhausted.  We decided to schedule another session to do the driver and hybrids.

The driver and hybrid fitting was very similar to what we had done with the irons, starting with a couple recognized "forgiveness" brands, checking PD, GI, SGI versions then moving on to other brands.  I ended up with a Titleist TSR1 driver.  We did the same for the hybrids, and the Titleist TSR1 23-degree was the winner.  The gap between my driver distance and the 7-iron was such that the fitter very responsibly recommended that we only do the 23-degree for now.  He suggested that once I got accustomed to the new clubs, the gaps between the driver/hybrid/7-iron would grow and indicate where a second and possibly a third hybrid would fit. (I have since added a 26-degree.)

It was a huge surprise to find myself in Titleist.  The fact that I ended up with that brand for driver, hybrid and irons was completely the result of optimum performance and had nothing to do with any desire to have a single-brand bag.  The "forgiveness" brands ended up second and third, but much to my surprise, the Titleist driver, hybrid and irons worked best for me.  (I had actually hoped to end up with a driver and hybrid from one of those forgiveness brands.)

I know I'm not the first to make these recommendations, but would be remiss in not doing so:

1. Standardize your swing by playing and practicing to develop consistency.  Consider lessons to address swing issues and allow time before your fitting to incorporate your swing improvements.

2. Choose a fitter with an agnostic approach.

3. Make sure the fitter has access to all the brands you hope to consider.

4. Go into the fitting with an open mind.

5. (Not specifically addressed above, but perhaps in a future post) - Resist the urge to swing harder than you normally do.  Remember, once you leave the fitting and get your clubs, you will (hopefully) use your normal swing with them.  Get the clubs that work best with your normal swing.

6. Enjoy the fitting process!

The most important recommendation of all is DO A FITTING!!!  Your clubs will probably be a considerable investment for you that you probably live with for several years.  This is likely to be especially true if, like me, you are a senior golfer.  Club reviews are great, as is hitting clubs in the simulator at your local golf retailer.  But you will get so much more from a fitting!

[Cfhandyman]

22 hours ago, Wu1f said:

I started playing golf again after 15 years away from the game (I'm now 67).  My equipment was 20-25 years old, and my goal was to build some consistency, take a few lessons, then do a full bag fitting.

For four months, I took a few lessons, played 3-4 times per week and hit the range on most of the days I didn't play.  I finally felt ready for the fitting.

I had read ads from fitters stating they were club agnostic, and I decided it would be in my best interest to do the same.  Nevertheless, I had read dozens of reviews and there were a few clubs I suspected would end up working best for me.  Like many, I had the impression that Titleist clubs were for golfers much better than I.  In the days leading up to the fitting, I visited websites for several suppliers, playing with their apps designed to help users identify the likely best fit for them.  I visited the Titleist site and found that lefty sets for most of their irons were no longer available.  A few days later, I saw that they would be releasing updated versions of all their irons.  I contacted Titleist and they confirmed that they had sold out of the lefty heads and would not have them until the updated version was released.  Even though I doubted Titleist would work for me, I nevertheless wanted to at least be able to consider them.  I decided to delay my fitting for a few weeks until the fitter confirmed they had be received the lefty  updated irons.  (This is very unlike me as I tend to be quite impatient.)  

The fitter reiterated their goal to be brand agnostic, then asked if I had any preferences.  I explained my goal was to do the same.  He had me hit a few 7-irons with my old set, then selected the first candidate, which was one of the brands routinely recognized for their forgiveness.  He had me try distance, player distance, game improvement and super game improvement versions and then did the same with two other brands.  With each, I hit the player distance best, which was the first surprise for me.  My driver speed is low to mid-80's and with that and my handicap, I had expected to end up in the GI or SGI category.  We went through a handful of other brands, and eventually got to the Titleists.  He started me with the T350 which I hit pretty well.  Then he had me try the T200 and the T150.  Much to my surprise, the T200 ended up being the best club for me.  We tried a number of shafts in it, then a few tweaks to the loft/lie angle.  By that time, I had probably hit a couple hundred balls and was exhausted.  We decided to schedule another session to do the driver and hybrids.

The driver and hybrid fitting was very similar to what we had done with the irons, starting with a couple recognized "forgiveness" brands, checking PD, GI, SGI versions then moving on to other brands.  I ended up with a Titleist TSR1 driver.  We did the same for the hybrids, and the Titleist TSR1 23-degree was the winner.  The gap between my driver distance and the 7-iron was such that the fitter very responsibly recommended that we only do the 23-degree for now.  He suggested that once I got accustomed to the new clubs, the gaps between the driver/hybrid/7-iron would grow and indicate where a second and possibly a third hybrid would fit. (I have since added a 26-degree.)

It was a huge surprise to find myself in Titleist.  The fact that I ended up with that brand for driver, hybrid and irons was completely the result of optimum performance and had nothing to do with any desire to have a single-brand bag.  The "forgiveness" brands ended up second and third, but much to my surprise, the Titleist driver, hybrid and irons worked best for me.  (I had actually hoped to end up with a driver and hybrid from one of those forgiveness brands.)

I know I'm not the first to make these recommendations, but would be remiss in not doing so:

1. Standardize your swing by playing and practicing to develop consistency.  Consider lessons to address swing issues and allow time before your fitting to incorporate your swing improvements.

2. Choose a fitter with an agnostic approach.

3. Make sure the fitter has access to all the brands you hope to consider.

4. Go into the fitting with an open mind.

5. (Not specifically addressed above, but perhaps in a future post) - Resist the urge to swing harder than you normally do.  Remember, once you leave the fitting and get your clubs, you will (hopefully) use your normal swing with them.  Get the clubs that work best with your normal swing.

6. Enjoy the fitting process!

The most important recommendation of all is DO A FITTING!!!  Your clubs will probably be a considerable investment for you that you probably live with for several years.  This is likely to be especially true if, like me, you are a senior golfer.  Club reviews are great, as is hitting clubs in the simulator at your local golf retailer.  But you will get so much more from a fitting!

Well stated. At the end of the day, you want clubs that work best for you and your game. A good fitter will help you do that. Have you noticed any difference in your game with your new clubs. 

[Wu1f]

9 minutes ago, Cfhandyman said:

Well stated. At the end of the day, you want clubs that work best for you and your game. A good fitter will help you do that. Have you noticed any difference in your game with your new clubs. 

I dropped about ten strokes with the new clubs, but need to also mention that after 15 years away from golf, some of that improvement should be attributed to just shaking off the rust.

The big difference maker for me was the driver.  I've never really been able to hit one and historically used a 3-wood off the tee.  I hit it fairly well, but my second biggest limitations was hitting anything over 160 yards, so not very good with long irons, fairway woods off the short stuff or out of the rough.  With these distance issues, in most holes a good score for me was a bogie.  Add in other issues like penalties, short game fluffs, missed putts and I was firmly in the high handicap zone.

I hit my new driver really well.  According to Arrcos, I average about 220 yds, with several long drives near 250.  I also hit the hybrids really well.  The new irons gave me back a good bit of the distance I lost due to getting older and with a having a significantly lower swing speed than I had back then.  With those three improvements, distance is far less of an issue for me and pars are a reasonable possibility on almost every hole of my home course.  I started recording scores on GHIN about two months back into the game.  My handicap index at that time was around 32.  At the end of the season it was 19 and I was still making progress, a few tenths or so on most rounds.

So yes, the fitting was well worth it to me.

[Josh Parker]

Well said and my fitting resulted in a much more consistent game and ball flight. 

[Cfhandyman]

9 minutes ago, Wu1f said:

I dropped about ten strokes with the new clubs, but need to also mention that after 15 years away from golf, some of that improvement should be attributed to just shaking off the rust.

The big difference maker for me was the driver.  I've never really been able to hit one and historically used a 3-wood off the tee.  I hit it fairly well, but my second biggest limitations was hitting anything over 160 yards, so not very good with long irons, fairway woods off the short stuff or out of the rough.  With these distance issues, in most holes a good score for me was a bogie.  Add in other issues like penalties, short game fluffs, missed putts and I was firmly in the high handicap zone.

I hit my new driver really well.  According to Arrcos, I average about 220 yds, with several long drives near 250.  I also hit the hybrids really well.  The new irons gave me back a good bit of the distance I lost due to getting older and with a having a significantly lower swing speed than I had back then.  With those three improvements, distance is far less of an issue for me and pars are a reasonable possibility on almost every hole of my home course.  I started recording scores on GHIN about two months back into the game.  My handicap index at that time was around 32.  At the end of the season it was 19 and I was still making progress, a few tenths or so on most rounds.

So yes, the fitting was well worth it to me.

Man, that’s very impressive. That’s a great success story. Well done. 

[Golf2Much]

Back in July, 2022 I took advantage of a $100 full bag fitting from Club Champion.  I wasn't in the market for new clubs but was just curious if there were other options that may give me a few extra yards and more consistency.  

We started with my Ping G400 SFT driver with a $90 senior shaft that I had purchased on eBay.  Given the number of my physical limitations, it's not surprising that my driver swing speed was in the low to mid 70's.  That was not much of a surprise.  However, when the fitter looked deeper into the numbers, he saw smash factor values ranging from 1.48 to 1.50.  At first, he didn't believe it.  So, he had me hit another 8-10 balls to see if the data was legit.  Sure enough, the same swing speed and smash factors.  His comments to me were along the lines of "yeah, you have a slow swing speed, but it's a very efficient swing and you're getting about as much as can be expected."  Looking at the Trackman optimizer, my numbers were in the desired range for spin loft, ball speed, launch angle and spin rate and just under the desired range for height.   I even out hit the optimized total distance value by 10 to 12 yards.  

Next the fitter wanted me to try a variety of $400 shafts to see if they would help me.    Each expensive shaft was 4-10 yards shorter and had a wider distribution.   At the end of my driver fitting, he said, "I have nothing for you!"   I viewed that as an admission of defeat (in a positive way)!   We had the same discussion when we moved to the six iron.  Swing speeds in the mid 60's, smash factors between 1.40 and 1.43, and out hitting the Trackman optimizer by 10-11 yards.  So, it wasn't just the driver!

My fitting surprise was that my swing was so efficient (slow, but efficient) and that throwing money at it to try and get those extra elusive yards was not going to be overly successful.  

[mattjamd]

I'm 50 and have been playing golf for 40 yrs. Ever since I stopped growing taller around 17 and hit 6'2"  I've had my fittings for my irons. For over 30 yrs, I have been put into a 0.5" longer stiff shaft with 2 deg upright lie. I've mostly kept a 12-13 handicap playing a couple of times a month (family commitments), but in the last few years have been able to play every week, and got myself down to 10 h'cap with a brief soiree into single figures. (I still don't intentionally practice enough). Over the years I've played Mizuno blades, Wilson Staff Pi7's and now Wilson Staff FG Tour V6 irons since 2018. Iron play has consistently been the strongest part of my game. My iron fitting specs seem to still be working for me after 30 yrs.

Though I have bought a few drivers over the years, I've never had a custom fitting for any kind of driver or fairway wood. I would usually just hit them in the bay, try a few model options, and since adjustable drivers came in the 'fitter' inevitably just closes the face to reduce my left to right miss. I can generate about 95 mph of driver head speed, but have been pretty inconsistent with my driver accuracy. My average driver distance over the past few years has been around 230yds (rarely straight), though I can hit  260 yds on occasions. In a word, inconsistent. (I've used Shot Scope for a few years now to collect my stats).

Last summer I decided to get fit for a new driver and went to Titleist for an outdoor fitting day. I'll be honest, I was a little nervous because of the cost of a premium driver. The last thing I wanted to do was spend $600 on a fancy driver, and see no improvement in my driving - but hey, I was turning 50, so I'm going to treat myself. First of all, I was super impressed with the availability of Titleist driver options they had for me to try, (driver models, head lofts, shafts, weighting etc) and the ease in my locality (SoCal) of finding a Titleist fitting event. They showed me ball data and explained that I launched the ball very high with lots of spin (which is true), and they wanted to bring my launch angle down and reduce my spin numbers. They tried me in a couple of different head models and then we settled on the TSR 3.

What happened next shocked me. Because I generate a lot of spin, they actually put me in a lower lofted 8 deg head, then lofted me up to 9 deg with the hosel adjustments, reduced my shaft length by 1" from standard, and then gave me a much heavier stiff shaft (85g Tensei Black 1K). The effect was immediately noticeable. My launch angle came down, my spin numbers came down and my ball flight straightened up significantly. The overall result is that I now hit a lower launch, lower spin, straighter (baby fade), drive which carries about 240 yds, but I now get 10-15 yards of roll out, so my driving distance and consistency has improved dramatically. I have almost entirely eliminated my left miss (a stated goal in my fitting), and my consistent baby fade gives me much more confidence standing on the tee. I would never have thought I would be in a shorter, heavier, lower lofted.

We then did the same process for a 5 wood, and came up with a similar outcome - consistent lower launch window by going with a shorter length shaft, heavier shaft weight (Tensei 1K hybrid), but didn't need any loft adjustment. I'm getting a really consistent launch and distance with my 5 wood.  (btw - although I can hit my existing Callaway Big Bertha 3 wood really well, I rarely use it; I find the 5 wood gives me a much more useful distance and I hit it more often, so I've dropped my 3 wood from my bag).

I also can't believe I've waited so long to get a proper custom fitting for driver and fairway wood. It was worth paying for (the fitting cost came off the purchase cost). I'm also glad I had an outdoor fitting on grass and could see the ball flight change in real time.

[Wu1f]

On 1/8/2024 at 6:05 PM, Wu1f said:

I dropped about ten strokes with the new clubs, but need to also mention that after 15 years away from golf, some of that improvement should be attributed to just shaking off the rust.

The big difference maker for me was the driver.  I've never really been able to hit one and historically used a 3-wood off the tee.  I hit it fairly well, but my second biggest limitations was hitting anything over 160 yards, so not very good with long irons, fairway woods off the short stuff or out of the rough.  With these distance issues, in most holes a good score for me was a bogie.  Add in other issues like penalties, short game fluffs, missed putts and I was firmly in the high handicap zone.

I hit my new driver really well.  According to Arrcos, I average about 220 yds, with several long drives near 250.  I also hit the hybrids really well.  The new irons gave me back a good bit of the distance I lost due to getting older and with a having a significantly lower swing speed than I had back then.  With those three improvements, distance is far less of an issue for me and pars are a reasonable possibility on almost every hole of my home course.  I started recording scores on GHIN about two months back into the game.  My handicap index at that time was around 32.  At the end of the season it was 19 and I was still making progress, a few tenths or so on most rounds.

So yes, the fitting was well worth it to me.

I had similar results for "efficiency."  Efficiency is calculated as ball speed divided by swing speed.  The higher the number, the better - a higher efficiency would indicate that swing speed is more effectively translated to ball speed.  Higher ball speed typically means longer distance, although if the more efficient shot is going too high or too low, it would result in less distance.  This is one of the areas where a good fitter help - they will know and understand the optimal launch angle for each club - the launch angle that gives the most distance.

I also did my fitting at Club Champion.  I was getting efficiency as high as 152 - the fitter said that the highest ever officially recorded was 151.7, by Rory McElroy.

How can this make any sense???

I suspect that the ball speed to swing speed is a "non-linear" ratio.  As swing speed is increased in even increments, ball speed does not increase in precise increments.  If you graphed swing speed vs ball speed, keeping all other possible factors the same, the line would not be straight (the way it would be if the two factors were linear).

There are probably dozens of factors that contribute to the non-linearity of efficiency, such as the swing speed versus the amount of flex in the club face.  Another  might be related to the amount the ball is compressed at various swing speeds.  A swing that compresses the side of the ball only 1/4 of an inch is actually compressing far less "ball material" than one that compresses it a 1/2-inch.  This would mean the ratio of swing speed to amount of compression isn't linear.

The dozens of possible factors that could contribute to the non-linearity of efficiency also interact with each other.  Some might be additive - the both make the non-linearity even worse.  Others could be contrary and cancel each other out to some extend, reducing the amount of non-linearity.

Non-linearity of the efficiency ratio means that you probably wouldn't want to use it to compare different golfers

Non-linearity DOES NOT mean that efficiency is a useless number.  In a fitting, if the golfer has a relatively consistent swing and uses the same ball, efficiency can will indicate with club/shaft/grip combo allows the golfer to generate the most ball speed (and distance) for a set swing speed.  But there are other important factors.  For example, ball speed is pretty meaningless if the golfer hits the ball too high or too low.  This is where a good fitter is really helpful - based on volumes of data, they know the optimum launch angle for a given club - the launch angle most likely to give the most distance.

I hope this makes sense.  I won't speak for MattJamD, but I know it would be a huge mistake to think that based on efficiency, my swing is anywhere near as good as Rory's.

[Wu1f]

4 minutes ago, Wu1f said:

I had similar results for "efficiency."  Efficiency is calculated as ball speed divided by swing speed.  The higher the number, the better - a higher efficiency would indicate that swing speed is more effectively translated to ball speed.  Higher ball speed typically means longer distance, although if the more efficient shot is going too high or too low, it would result in less distance.  This is one of the areas where a good fitter help - they will know and understand the optimal launch angle for each club - the launch angle that gives the most distance.

I also did my fitting at Club Champion.  I was getting efficiency as high as 152 - the fitter said that the highest ever officially recorded was 151.7, by Rory McElroy.

How can this make any sense???

I suspect that the ball speed to swing speed is a "non-linear" ratio.  As swing speed is increased in even increments, ball speed does not increase in precise increments.  If you graphed swing speed vs ball speed, keeping all other possible factors the same, the line would not be straight (the way it would be if the two factors were linear).

There are probably dozens of factors that contribute to the non-linearity of efficiency, such as the swing speed versus the amount of flex in the club face.  Another  might be related to the amount the ball is compressed at various swing speeds.  A swing that compresses the side of the ball only 1/4 of an inch is actually compressing far less "ball material" than one that compresses it a 1/2-inch.  This would mean the ratio of swing speed to amount of compression isn't linear.

The dozens of possible factors that could contribute to the non-linearity of efficiency also interact with each other.  Some might be additive - the both make the non-linearity even worse.  Others could be contrary and cancel each other out to some extend, reducing the amount of non-linearity.

Non-linearity of the efficiency ratio means that you probably wouldn't want to use it to compare different golfers

Non-linearity DOES NOT mean that efficiency is a useless number.  In a fitting, if the golfer has a relatively consistent swing and uses the same ball, efficiency can will indicate with club/shaft/grip combo allows the golfer to generate the most ball speed (and distance) for a set swing speed.  But there are other important factors.  For example, ball speed is pretty meaningless if the golfer hits the ball too high or too low.  This is where a good fitter is really helpful - based on volumes of data, they know the optimum launch angle for a given club - the launch angle most likely to give the most distance.

I hope this makes sense.  I won't speak for MattJamD, but I know it would be a huge mistake to think that based on efficiency, my swing is anywhere near as good as Rory's.

An additional note: My fitter said my launch angle was quite a bit lower than optimal.  We started with a shaft that typically increases launch angle, then tried it with a variety of heads to see which got closer to the desired launch angle.  We came up with two heads, and fortunately, both had good feel.  We took the better of the two and then tried a variety of other shafts that typically give higher launch (I'm assuming part of this is due to kick point, etc.).  We narrowed it down to two and then tried the two shafts with the other head.  The better head and the better shaft combo gave incrementally better results than the other three shafts.  It was also the one that felt best, so this was an easy decision.  All of this is to illustrate the value of a good fitter.  This place had dozens of shafts.  His knowledge helped us quickly focus on which were the best candidates for me.  Good thing too.  I still hit a couple hundred shots and by the time we were done, I was exhausted!