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27 minutes ago, GB13 said:

The problem with Wilson trying to build brand recognition is that Wilson still makes boxed clubs. They really should change the name of the upper line from Wilson Staff to Prostaff or something similar. That would take away any perception of Wilson not being an upper echelon brand.  

Yeah that association doesn’t help. I don’t recall where I saw it but it sounded like they are actually looking st doing away with the staff part and the w/s logo. I’ve noticed some of their pros hats just have Wilson in the front now. Saw it a few times in the show too.

imo that’s not a good move for what you say about needing to separate the brand.  The bad thing is without those boxes sets w/s would t be around at all. 

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9 hours ago, GB13 said:

The problem with Wilson trying to build brand recognition is that Wilson still makes boxed clubs. They really should change the name of the upper line from Wilson Staff to Prostaff or something similar. That would take away any perception of Wilson not being an upper echelon brand.  

This, in my opinion, is an out-dated and not entirely convincing argument. Callaway and Tour Edge both make boxed sets available at places like WalMart. Tour Edge's higher end line is the Tour Edge Exotics, which is one word difference, just like Wilson/Staff. Yet you don't normally hear people complain about TEE quality simply because they can buy a Tour Edge boxed set someplace. 

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27 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

This, in my opinion, is an out-dated and not entirely convincing argument. Callaway and Tour Edge both make boxed sets available at places like WalMart. Tour Edge's higher end line is the Tour Edge Exotics, which is one word difference, just like Wilson/Staff. Yet you don't normally hear people complain about TEE quality simply because they can buy a Tour Edge boxed set someplace. 

I have to agree with you on this. Using my BMX history as an example, I used to get a bunch of flack from other kids because I rode a Mongoose (we're talking early 2000's Mongoose, not 1970/80's Mongoose). It was not uncommon to get a question or comment about buying my bike from Walmart, but I rode a Dennis McCoy model (look him up) and it was nothing like the box store bikes. Mongoose has long had a stable of pros in both BMX and MTB as well as pro level frames and components made available through local shops and a few online specialty retailers. It's a similar scenario with Goodyear, Samsung, LG, etc., etc.. Many large brands offer "made for" type products that are of lesser quality or have a smaller feature set and sold at a reduced price through big box stores. This is not an uncommon practice - especially for a company like Wilson which does not limit its products to just golf. Mizuno's portfolio of products is very similar to Wilson's and don't forget that Mizuno first started by making baseballs. So yeah, pretty weak on the whole "Wilson can't be taken seriously because they make box sets" argument...

As for the price, I think it's fully appropriate. You have to keep in mind that Wilson didn't release this driver with the expectation that avid golfers would flock to it (though I'm sure several will switch if the performance is there). Their expectation is that the recreational player who maybe hasn't even heard of club fitting will walk over to the rack, see a great looking driver with a price tag to match and give it a go. It's arguably even more in their favor to price it this way when considering someone brand new to the game because Wilson might be the only brand name they recognize.

All that said, I can almost guarantee I won't be buying a Cortex. I won't be buying a Taylormade or a Callaway either though. I'm not fully sold on the carbon fiber or sliding weights (movable weights yes, weight tracks not so much). There may come a day when I don't have much choice, but for now I'll stick with Ping or Titleist or maybe even go with a Mizuno.

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1 hour ago, russtopherb said:

This, in my opinion, is an out-dated and not entirely convincing argument. Callaway and Tour Edge both make boxed sets available at places like WalMart. Tour Edge's higher end line is the Tour Edge Exotics, which is one word difference, just like Wilson/Staff. Yet you don't normally hear people complain about TEE quality simply because they can buy a Tour Edge boxed set someplace. 

Is it really though when Tim Clarke himself admits that the association with Wilson box sets us the reason for the perception and one of the reasons they are using DVD to help change people’s minds and show the consumer Wilson can make a high end club?  Tim has also said without the box sets Wilson would have been done in the golf industry.

Imo it can be confusing for the avg consumer when they hear the golf commercial Tim says it’s the best driver Wilson has ever produced yet they use the W/S logo on the driver toe. You have tour pros wearing hats that have Wilson on the front but clubs have W/S logos. 

Tour Edge to most golfers imo is as a cheap brand and not a lot of credibility. Whether that’s really the case or not for the brand they aren’t oit there trying to market themselves as an elite brand and change consumer minds.

Callaway is a marketing machine and as a result don’t have the image problem Wilson has even though they sell box sets or have gloves that can be bought at Costco.  Callaway is in a different league thanks to their marketing compared to Wilson and Tour edge

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2 hours ago, TR1PTIK said:

I have to agree with you on this. Using my BMX history as an example, I used to get a bunch of flack from other kids because I rode a Mongoose (we're talking early 2000's Mongoose, not 1970/80's Mongoose). It was not uncommon to get a question or comment about buying my bike from Walmart, but I rode a Dennis McCoy model (look him up) and it was nothing like the box store bikes. Mongoose has long had a stable of pros in both BMX and MTB as well as pro level frames and components made available through local shops and a few online specialty retailers. It's a similar scenario with Goodyear, Samsung, LG, etc., etc.. Many large brands offer "made for" type products that are of lesser quality or have a smaller feature set and sold at a reduced price through big box stores. This is not an uncommon practice - especially for a company like Wilson which does not limit its products to just golf. Mizuno's portfolio of products is very similar to Wilson's and don't forget that Mizuno first started by making baseballs. So yeah, pretty weak on the whole "Wilson can't be taken seriously because they make box sets" argument...

I saw DMC when he was riding for Haro IIRC back in the late-80's. Skyway came around with Matt Hoffman at the same time. Those guys got some incredibly sick air. 

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Is it really though when Tim Clarke himself admits that the association with Wilson box sets us the reason for the perception and one of the reasons they are using DVD to help change people’s minds and show the consumer Wilson can make a high end club?  Tim has also said without the box sets Wilson would have been done in the golf industry.

Doesn't that sort of prove my point, however, that it's an out-dated way of thinking? 

We can talk marketing budgets all we want - the vast majority of golfers aren't on forums or subscribing to magazines, they're walking into Dick's to buy some clubs, where the Callaway boxed sites are right next to the Wilsons and the Top Flites. It's great that the boxed sets kept Wilson afloat, but that doesn't correlate to people thinking Wilson = Wilson/Staff.

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17 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

I saw DMC when he was riding for Haro IIRC back in the late-80's. Skyway came around with Matt Hoffman at the same time. Those guys got some incredibly sick air. 

Doesn't that sort of prove my point, however, that it's an out-dated way of thinking? 

We can talk marketing budgets all we want - the vast majority of golfers aren't on forums or subscribing to magazines, they're walking into Dick's to buy some clubs, where the Callaway boxed sites are right next to the Wilsons and the Top Flites. It's great that the boxed sets kept Wilson afloat, but that doesn't correlate to people thinking Wilson = Wilson/Staff.

I don’t know if it’s an outdated way of thinking or not but it’s the reality of the moment. Wilson/Wilson staff perceived as cheap. 

Consumer sees Wilson and Wilson Staff and know they are same brand and due to the Walmart box sets see the whole golf brand as cheap, especially when watching DVD they show the outside of the HQ building and it’s Wilson logo.  

So even though other brands have similar models of box sets and other offerings brand perceptions are what they are. We all know perception is reality to many.

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Tim says it’s the best driver Wilson has ever produced yet they use the W/S logo on the driver toe.

This phrase that everyone keeps using when they post reviews of the club including all of the YouTube reviewers;

"The best driver Wilson has ever produced".  

Let's break that saying down in terms of the auto industry.  Let's say KIA comes out with a super luxury vehicle and it's "The best KIA vehicle that they've ever built" and they want to charge $85,000+ for it and let's say it performs similar to what you can get with the main players in the luxury market.  Even if it was similar, would anyone with that kind of money to spend even give the KIA a second look when it's in the same price range as Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc? 

Same problem with the Wilson.  If someone has premium driver money to spend, why would they choose a Wilson driver over the main players such as Ping, Callaway, TM, Titleist, etc?  Especially when those players have a HUGE selection of shafts and demo heads to hit and get custom fit into.  Now if the Wilson had the same performance as the big names and came in at a lower price point of say $350-$399, it might entice more people who look for better value for money and they might overlook the lack of shafts and fitting options.

Back to the car analogy.  Hyundai came out with the luxury car Genesis and it was a fantastic vehicle that competed with the top luxury vehicles but cost less.  They still couldn't sell them as well due to the car having a Hyundai badge so they broke the luxury brand off and created a new luxury brand specifically called Genesis.  This allowed them to differentiate the nicer product from the cheaper value that Hyundai provided.

If Wilson could do something similar and create an upper tier brand that ONLY had the better equipment then they could start to command the higher price points as people would recognize this as the "luxury" brand.  As others have mentioned they have lost their way with the Wilson vs. Wilson Staff branding and they've slapped Wilson or Wilson Staff on whatever product they feel like using it on which doesn't let the consumer know if what they are using is box set quality or better.  

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1 minute ago, 03trdblack said:

This phrase that everyone keeps using when they post reviews of the club including all of the YouTube reviewers;

"The best driver Wilson has ever produced".  

Let's break that saying down in terms of the auto industry.  Let's say KIA comes out with a super luxury vehicle and it's "The best KIA vehicle that they've ever built" and they want to charge $85,000+ for it and let's say it performs similar to what you can get with the main players in the luxury market.  Even if it was similar, would anyone with that kind of money to spend even give the KIA a second look when it's in the same price range as Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc? 

Same problem with the Wilson.  If someone has premium driver money to spend, why would they choose a Wilson driver over the main players such as Ping, Callaway, TM, Titleist, etc?  Especially when those players have a HUGE selection of shafts and demo heads to hit and get custom fit into.  Now if the Wilson had the same performance as the big names and came in at a lower price point of say $350-$399, it might entice more people who look for better value for money and they might overlook the lack of shafts and fitting options.

Back to the car analogy.  Hyundai came out with the luxury car Genesis and it was a fantastic vehicle that competed with the top luxury vehicles but cost less.  They still couldn't sell them as well due to the car having a Hyundai badge so they broke the luxury brand off and created a new luxury brand specifically called Genesis.  This allowed them to differentiate the nicer product from the cheaper value that Hyundai provided.

If Wilson could do something similar and create an upper tier brand that ONLY had the better equipment then they could start to command the higher price points as people would recognize this as the "luxury" brand.  As others have mentioned they have lost their way with the Wilson vs. Wilson Staff branding and they've slapped Wilson or Wilson Staff on whatever product they feel like using it on which doesn't let the consumer know if what they are using is box set quality or better.  

Agree but for whatever reason they seem to be doing away with the staff name in their branding and imo that will only lead to the continuation of the brand perception.  If they stopped making the box sets and kept everything Wilson then that might help but until they do a good job of separating the box sets their perception will be hard to change.

wilson makes some really good irons and their blades have been some of the best made and best looking. I don’t really care for their C and D lines but those are pretty good as well for who they are marketed too. 

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This phrase that everyone keeps using when they post reviews of the club including all of the YouTube reviewers;
"The best driver Wilson has ever produced".  
Let's break that saying down in terms of the auto industry.  Let's say KIA comes out with a super luxury vehicle and it's "The best KIA vehicle that they've ever built" and they want to charge $85,000+ for it and let's say it performs similar to what you can get with the main players in the luxury market.  Even if it was similar, would anyone with that kind of money to spend even give the KIA a second look when it's in the same price range as Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc? 
Same problem with the Wilson.  If someone has premium driver money to spend, why would they choose a Wilson driver over the main players such as Ping, Callaway, TM, Titleist, etc?  Especially when those players have a HUGE selection of shafts and demo heads to hit and get custom fit into.  Now if the Wilson had the same performance as the big names and came in at a lower price point of say $350-$399, it might entice more people who look for better value for money and they might overlook the lack of shafts and fitting options.
Back to the car analogy.  Hyundai came out with the luxury car Genesis and it was a fantastic vehicle that competed with the top luxury vehicles but cost less.  They still couldn't sell them as well due to the car having a Hyundai badge so they broke the luxury brand off and created a new luxury brand specifically called Genesis.  This allowed them to differentiate the nicer product from the cheaper value that Hyundai provided.
If Wilson could do something similar and create an upper tier brand that ONLY had the better equipment then they could start to command the higher price points as people would recognize this as the "luxury" brand.  As others have mentioned they have lost their way with the Wilson vs. Wilson Staff branding and they've slapped Wilson or Wilson Staff on whatever product they feel like using it on which doesn't let the consumer know if what they are using is box set quality or better.  

Automotive is a great analogy. About 15 years ago VW (which owns Audi and other luxury lines) introduced a high end sedan called the Phaeton. It was priced at about $100k (again 15 years ago). It was a disaster in the US. Because of people's perception that it was just a very expensive VW. For the same price you could have bought a 7 series BMW. For 100k which would you rather have sitting in your driveway.


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

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Well I ordered one just because it looks badass but it better person to best of my m3 that I've lived since day one unfortunately u didn't get my m3 until towards the end of the season so I only played it for a month or two but I've been please, but that cortex colors and deep face looked great to me

I tired the new srixon 785 driver as well and it was a beast but it could've best my m3 in finding fwys

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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