Flagstick In or Out debate

[2AcesGolfer]

 

MyGolfSpy posted the quite convincing test (above) awhile back and Golf Digest just posted the (below) article that concludes the opposite.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/viktor-hovland-ball-hits-flagstick-on-putt-should-leave-pin-in-the-hole-research?bust=1?utm_medium=email&utm_source=052823&utm_campaign=newsandtours&utm_content=DM40126&uuid=8a7f6607-9fb9-463d-a7f3-9183ae8548fa

 I’m a leave the pin in golfer largely because of what I’ve seen snd read on MyGolfSpy, I’m curious to get your thoughts.  In or out and why? 

[NCDuffer]

I saw the same and am curious as well.  I leave the pin in also, but mainly it’s to take less time on the green.

[Swood1994]

If I’m playing by myself and not keeping score I will leave the pin in for time’s sake. When I’m play a competitive round in league or on the weekend the pin is always out unless it’s severely downhill and I want some insurance if the speed of the putt gets away from me. 
 

I noticed when I putt with the pin in I tend to push and pull my putts more almost like I’m subconsciously putting to avoid hitting the pin. Plus with it out it makes the hole look bigger and that is a good feeling to have on the greens. 

[MacTourney]

Treating the flagstick like it's an uninvited guest in its own home usually doesn't work out so well.  Zinger has some ideas on this too using the home's host as an assist to stop steering, guiding, fitting into, etc. 

 

[Middler]

I was against the change initially, but I got used to it pretty quickly, and almost never pull the pin anymore - like everyone I play with regularly. The only time I pull the pin now is when it’s leaning such that the ball might deflect off, or a distracting shadow - maybe once every 10 rounds? Leaving the pin in on fast downhill putts is welcome.

[tony@CIC]

On longer downhill putts I'll always leave the pin in. Short putts - it's always out.  

[russtopherb]

I almost always leave it in. Saves time and I can’t recall the last time the pin stopped me from holing a putt. In fact it’s helped more than hindered. 

[CudaKota66]

I got used to leaving it in during the 'days of C***d'. When playing alone, it stays in. When playing with others, I leave it up to them.

The ridiculous, slow-play-inducing thing I've seen are groups that leave it in/pull it out per player's preference during their turn to putt 

[2puttbogey]

I prefer to take it out. There’s the experiments by MGS and others that say it helps, but I have seen it knock more out in the wild. Like @Swood1994it makes the hole look bigger. There are situations where I like it left in, but overall it’s out for me.

[Dcheb]

I usually die my putts in the hole so mostly in or out hasn’t impacted me that much.   The argument to keep in or take out might not never go away.   I think whatever your mind tells you is what you should do.  

[ParFore74x]

Most of the time I’ll just leave it in. I tend to pull the flag out when it feels like a distraction on the 6-10’ putts that should be really easy and I just want to see a clear cup. 

[fixyurdivot]

11 hours ago, 2AcesGolfer said:

 

MyGolfSpy posted the quite convincing test (above) awhile back and Golf Digest just posted the (below) article that concludes the opposite.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/viktor-hovland-ball-hits-flagstick-on-putt-should-leave-pin-in-the-hole-research?bust=1?utm_medium=email&utm_source=052823&utm_campaign=newsandtours&utm_content=DM40126&uuid=8a7f6607-9fb9-463d-a7f3-9183ae8548fa

 I’m a leave the pin in golfer largely because of what I’ve seen snd read on MyGolfSpy, I’m curious to get your thoughts.  In or out and why? 

Initially I did not like leaving it in but as rounds rolled along I found it to be just fine.  I would estimate that 80% of the groups I'm with leave it in.  The only time I like it out is when the wind is up and the flag/pole are whipping about.  Since this change was partly aimed at speeding up play, I'd be curious to see any data whether its helped.

[JerryB]

I usually leave it in just to save a few seconds (and I'm really lazy) but it's a bummer because there's no better sound than the ball rattling in the hole.  If I'm part of a larger group I'll defer either way if anyone has a strong preference.

[Rosey31]

I pull the pin. I have had a few get deflected out, plus like said before it makes the hole look bigger. 

[Kenny B]

I leave it in.  I did before covid, and I use the flagstick as a vertical alignment reference.  Over the past few years I have had a few putts where the pin may have deflected the ball out, but I have had many where it likely helped. 

If someone else pulls it for their putt I ask for it to be put back in before I putt.  My wife will leave it in most of the time unless the shadow of it is on her putt line.  

[Stuka44]

It's funny this just came up. Now our home group, on weekends we never take the flag out, and we will tend it if it is leaning badly to hold it up straight for whomever is putting.  And I just got used to putting with it in.  Now I didn't go on our big golf trip last year, so its been 2 years, since I've went, and therefore 2 years since I have played a round of golf where someone took the pin out to putt.

On the trip I discovered something.  And it is 100% mental for me I'm sure.  I found I literally could not putt with the flagstick out.  It bothered me mentally, and I found on 3-6 footers, it took my aiming point away. Again MENTAL but I also found I was "babying" 2-4 footers afraid to hit them as hard, absent the flagstick.  I guess the flagstick being there gives me more confidence to hit putts more firmly, as a "backstop" . I tried to go along with flagstick out, but I just couldn't do it!  I finally with the groups on the trip, would either putt out first, or wait until everyone else who wanted the flag out was done, and then putt out. 

 I find it much easier to make sure I have my putt lined up, with the center of the cup aiming point there (FLAGSTICK).   On longer putts, its easier to determine if I am actually lined up just left of the hole, with the flagstick to clearly show me where the center of the hole is.   I think it speeds things up a little bit, and Like Others,  I believe the number deflected out, less than a handful a season, are offset EQUALLY, by those of greater length carrying "WAAAAAAAY" too much speed that are stopped.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Stuka44

[Caddie1966]

We’ve been a leave in gang for several years.  The only challenge we seem to have is it’s getting harder for some to get their ball out with the stick in.  It’s amazing how long they will try to do that without taking the stick out to get the ball.

[BKervin]

I like the flagstick out. I find that I am always trying to fit the ball beside the flag and the edge of the cup - almost always "rimming it".  Much more consistent getting it in the cup with the flag out.

[cnosil]

6 minutes ago, BKervin said:

I like the flagstick out. I find that I am always trying to fit the ball beside the flag and the edge of the cup - almost always "rimming it".  Much more consistent getting it in the cup with the flag out.

This is why these discussions are so interesting.   It never crossed my mind that someone would think they needed to fit the ball beside the flag.   I always attempt to hit the flag dead center and have the ball drop right in front of the stick.   This is why mental approach is a huge part of the game.  

[BKervin]

18 minutes ago, cnosil said:

This is why these discussions are so interesting.   It never crossed my mind that someone would think they needed to fit the ball beside the flag.   I always attempt to hit the flag dead center and have the ball drop right in front of the stick.   This is why mental approach is a huge part of the game.  

I try to mental picture hitting the pin but it rims more than it hits.  With the flag out I'm in more than missing or rimming.

Maybe I'm just not a violent person at heart and don't like hitting it!   

[HeathS16]

Like many on here, if I am playing by myself I am probably leaving the stick in. Or on a longer putt/downhill putt I will most likely leave the stick in.  I feel like it gives me something to aim at.  Can I tell an actual performance difference? No I don't putt consistently enough for it to IMO. lol just preference.