Getting fit on Grass (and a couple other observations from a PXG fitting)

[Syks7]

@GolfSpy SAM had a fitting a couple weeks ago that I was nearby for and the fitter was nice enough to look at my 7 iron and put a 0317 ST in my hand to try out.  A muscle back type blade should not be in my wheelhouse and yet I hit it very well.   I haven't been able to get it out of my head since, so I decided to schedule a fitting with the same fitter.  I mostly wanted to see whether or not I was just having an above average striking day when I first hit them or if I might actually be able to play them.  I also wanted to hit more of the irons in the line.  

We worked through the 0317 line and played around with the 0311 P through a variety of shafts but in the end it came down to 0317 ST and 0317T wearing the Modus 105.  For whatever reason that shaft and those iron heads just worked for me -- particularly on the turf interaction front.  The shape of the leading edge just works with my attack angle and even on heavier contact just knifes through the turf.  Both were shockingly forgiving to me in terms of making solid contact.  Solid dispersion on both as well.  In the end I opted for the 0317T as it produced the most consistent results for the kind of golfer who uses more of the face (yours truly). 

The most interesting part of this fitting was that I would not (and have not) put myself in something that compact.  I just don't think of myself as that kind of a ball striker.  Something that seemed to have been proven with in my experiments with 639 CBs and MP60s.  Loved the turf interaction, couldn't hit them consistently enough to play them well.  Conversely, I've not been a fan of the turf interaction with my Z585s, but have hit them well enough to get to a low index of 10.8.   The 0317T seems to be a sweet spot in between.  I only know that because I did the fitting on grass.  If I was in a studio I might have thought the 0311P worked best (best distance & best efficiency) even though on grass it had by far the worst turf interaction for me.  Same thing for the 0317 CB, I just didn't get through the grass with it like I did the others.  Go figure.  

We were relatively early in completing the irons so we played around with Driver (including handily enough my own PXG 0811XT).  After a couple not so bad swings with my gamer on a Tensei AV raw blue he put me in two shafts I never would have thought fit my swing.  Tensei CK White & Ventus black.  (Good thing they're cheap )  At least versions of the white is out there used for reasonable prices.  Stiffer profile in the mid and tip for both and instantly more stable to me.  Ventus was better, but I know I can scrounge up some version of the Tensei white somewhere.   Both were also better on the gen 6 Tour driver, but fortunately they were still more than serviceable on my gen 4 0811XT. 

I never would have tried them if I hadn't gone today.  It made me realize that as much as I've learned about equipment and fitting over the last couple years I still know nothing.  

Now.... all I have to do is figure out how to pull together enough cash to get the irons.  I'll scrounge up a Tensei white somewere.     BTW, today only reinforced my desire to spend my eventual retirement as a fitter and builder.  The nerd in me wants to know everything I can about equipment.  

 

[Josh Parker]

I really think for an irons fitting it has to be on grass!  

[cnosil]

7 minutes ago, Syks7 said:

 

I never would have tried them if I hadn't gone today.  It made me realize that as much as I've learned about equipment and fitting over the last couple years I still know nothing.  

 

I know I am in the same boat.  I have learned a lot over the years about golf equipment and I have just scratched the surface in many areas.   But the learning is all part of the enjoyment of the game for me.  

[GolfSpy SAM]

I'll echo a lot of what @Syks7 said here - getting fit on grass is now an absolute must for me.  The CB in the PXG lineup was an absolute delight to hit - I had a SLIGHTLY wider dispersion with it than with the ST, but my strike pattern with the CB were all in the exact same place. Something about that iron I just REALLY got a long with.  But without seeing how it got through the turf, even when my attack angle is too steep, was really something eye opening for me.  In much the same way, I never (ever) would have thought I would get along well with a blade-ish type iron (I appreciated that the PXGs were hardly 'butter knives' at address - definitely on the small side, but not so much that I was terrified of hitting them. 

Love that you ended up in a shaft that you loved for the driver - especially if it's something you can find on the used market.  

Also, and I think we talked about this that day, but theoretically the Gen 7 irons (whatever they're going to be called) are coming sometime this year, so you may find a killer deal on the T's once that happens. 

[Syks7]

9 minutes ago, GolfSpy SAM said:

Also, and I think we talked about this that day, but theoretically the Gen 7 irons (whatever they're going to be called) are coming sometime this year, so you may find a killer deal on the T's once that happens. 

That's the hope.   . My DF3 fund just became a 0317 fund.

[fixyurdivot]

14 hours ago, Josh Parker said:

I really think for an irons fitting it has to be on grass!  

I traveled 3 hours from Yuma to Palm Springs to validate my TrueSpec fitting numbers and finalists (ZX5's) off grass.  Palm Springs was the closest opportunity as it was during the tailend of Covid.  A couple of our forum members who had recently started gaming the v-sole suggested to test them on turf before buying... the benefits of the forum . 

Edited January 31 by fixyurdivot

[tony@CIC]

14 hours ago, Josh Parker said:

I really think for an irons fitting it has to be on grass!  

100%!!! I hate hitting off of mats AND into a screen to boot. 

[Shrek74]

15 hours ago, Syks7 said:

BTW, today only reinforced my desire to spend my eventual retirement as a fitter and builder.  The nerd in me wants to know everything I can about equipment.

Ditto! I'll eventually retire to a warmer climate as well as into a 55+ community where I might be able to set up a workshop to work on my own clubs but also anyone in the area who might need work done.

If possible, finding a place local to wherever I end up to teach me fitting so I can do it at least part time would be awesome!

I may need to take advantage of the PXG fitter that works out of a course in Knoxville this May and do my first ever iron fitting on grass.

[Syks7]

28 minutes ago, Shrek74 said:

Ditto! I'll eventually retire to a warmer climate as well as into a 55+ community where I might be able to set up a workshop to work on my own clubs but also anyone in the area who might need work done.

If possible, finding a place local to wherever I end up to teach me fitting so I can do it at least part time would be awesome!

I may need to take advantage of the PXG fitter that works out of a course in Knoxville this May and do my first ever iron fitting on grass.

My wife and I slowly migrating even further west in the San Fernando Valley...  from Van Nuys (still LA) to Woodland Hills (still LA) next.  It's not a stretch to see us moving out toward Ventura eventually.  Lots of great courses out that way and plenty of opportunities to do some side hustle fitting and building clubs.

Definitely try it out.  I was one of those people who didn't like the PXG commercials and had a pre-judgement of the clubs before even hitting them.  I humbly admit that I was very wrong.  I don't think I've disliked a single one of their products since I picked up the OG 0211 driver.

[Syks7]

Having a very hard time getting the 0317T's out of my head...   I think I'm going to pull the trigger.  That said, I'm going to have to do a bit of funding work first.  Garage cleanup/old club sale coming soon.   

On another note I'm starting to get very curious about bounce and turf interaction -- less about the amount of bounce and more about the location of the bounce on the sole.  I've been following a semi-local club-fitter/small manufacturer up in Ventura  (https://www.foreward.golf/) https://www.instagram.com/matched_up_golf/  He talks a lot about this in his instagram feed along with some other factors in the fitting system he developed.  It's a pretty interesting listen.  

I noticed that 0317T are higher bounce (5º @3I & 14º@PW) than a lot of irons with the location of the bounce  toward the rear of the sole -- a construction shared with the wedges I'm gaming (RTX Zipcore). 

 

Out of curiosity I pulled out some older wedges I have and found that all the ones I got along with best (hit reasonably well most days and in most conditions) are the ones that share this construction -- rear bias and higher bounce.  The ones I remember being inconsistent with (big variation between good striking days and bad striking days) are all still mid-high bounce but with the bounce biased towards the center or leading edge of the sole.  This includes my current irons along with the 639 CB's and MP60's I've cycled through over the last couple years -- wish I could find a good picture of the sole of the RSI2's because I loved those.  I'm curious if the higher bounce and rear location compensates for my heavy contact miss by keeping the leading edge (and sole) up just enough that I get a better turf interaction that doesn't kill the clubhead speed & ball speed.  Obviously this is just one factor, but I'm wondering if it's overlooked by the vast majority of us.  Thoughts from fitters?  @McGolf

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 1/30/2024 at 6:33 PM, Syks7 said:

A muscle back type blade should not be in my wheelhouse and yet I hit it very well

 

On 1/30/2024 at 6:33 PM, Syks7 said:

The most interesting part of this fitting was that I would not (and have not) put myself in something that compact.  I just don't think of myself as that kind of a ball striker.

As I mentioned in another fitting thread golfers are basically their own worst enemy. Improper diagnosis of their swings, base in decisions on marketing terms like forgiveness, game improvement, designed for X handicap type, etc.

VCOG plays a big role, weight, balance between shaft and head, feel and how that translates to delivery and the launch characterizes that come from that delivery outweigh the perceptions of a persons ball striking or I’m an X handicap I should be in Y for of club. Or I swing at a certain sled so I need a club or shaft marketed to that speed

this leads to poor choices in club and shaft selection. 
 

Getting fit by a quality fitter will yield far better results than self fit or buying based on some preconceived notion. Getting the right launch window followed by the right feel is critical to getting an optimized club

[Syks7]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

As I mentioned in another fitting thread golfers are basically their own worst enemy. Improper diagnosis of their swings, base in decisions on marketing terms like forgiveness, game improvement, designed for X handicap type, etc.

Getting fit by a quality fitter will yield far better results than self fit or buying based on some preconceived notion. Getting the right launch window followed by the right feel is critical to getting an optimized club

Definitely a lesson learned.

[vandyland]

On 1/30/2024 at 5:33 PM, Syks7 said:

The shape of the leading edge just works with my attack angle and even on heavier contact just knifes through the turf.

@Syks7What kind of attack angle and divot do you take? 

[Syks7]

1 hour ago, vandyland said:

@Syks7What kind of attack angle and divot do you take? 

According to the trackman data from the fitting -- with the 0317 (7 Iron is an average of -4.  Max of -5.2 min of -2.  with an average of -4AoA)  with my gamer Z585 (7 Iron average is -4.8 max of -5.8 & min -3.6).  Divot wise the video below is a fairly decent look at what kind of contact I see on the course.  A mix of decent and heavy contact.  I definitely make a divot, but its rarely a beaver pelt.  

 

Edited February 7 by Syks7

[vandyland]

15 minutes ago, Syks7 said:

According to the trackman data from the fitting -- with the 0317 (7 Iron is an average of -4.  Max of -5.2 min of -2.  with an average of -4AoA)

I ask because I am basically the same. About -4.4 down with a 7 iron. I had always assumed I needed more of a V-Sole, wider sole and...to be fair...those worked fine. But I got into this TS1-IM which had a narrower sole and my first thought was that it wasn't going to get through the turf. But it does, beautifully I might add. So score another one for "don't just blindly follow the common logic/marketing" and test stuff yourself. 

[McGolf]

On 2/7/2024 at 10:30 AM, Syks7 said:

Having a very hard time getting the 0317T's out of my head...   I think I'm going to pull the trigger.  That said, I'm going to have to do a bit of funding work first.  Garage cleanup/old club sale coming soon.   

On another note I'm starting to get very curious about bounce and turf interaction -- less about the amount of bounce and more about the location of the bounce on the sole.  I've been following a semi-local club-fitter/small manufacturer up in Ventura  (https://www.foreward.golf/) https://www.instagram.com/matched_up_golf/  He talks a lot about this in his instagram feed along with some other factors in the fitting system he developed.  It's a pretty interesting listen.  

I noticed that 0317T are higher bounce (5º @3I & 14º@PW) than a lot of irons with the location of the bounce  toward the rear of the sole -- a construction shared with the wedges I'm gaming (RTX Zipcore). 

 

Out of curiosity I pulled out some older wedges I have and found that all the ones I got along with best (hit reasonably well most days and in most conditions) are the ones that share this construction -- rear bias and higher bounce.  The ones I remember being inconsistent with (big variation between good striking days and bad striking days) are all still mid-high bounce but with the bounce biased towards the center or leading edge of the sole.  This includes my current irons along with the 639 CB's and MP60's I've cycled through over the last couple years -- wish I could find a good picture of the sole of the RSI2's because I loved those.  I'm curious if the higher bounce and rear location compensates for my heavy contact miss by keeping the leading edge (and sole) up just enough that I get a better turf interaction that doesn't kill the clubhead speed & ball speed.  Obviously this is just one factor, but I'm wondering if it's overlooked by the vast majority of us.  Thoughts from fitters?  @McGolf

If you are a digger of sorts with the irons a high bounce number is a great start. That means the leading edge will not turn into a shovel directly as you interact with the turf. the rearward "bump" in the sole acts like a ski to prevent divot the size of Rhode island  or breaking your wrists at impact with the turf.

a possibility for the disposition to the rearward sole design in that your swing is not a severe version of chopping wood and more towards a golf swing.

[Syks7]

11 hours ago, McGolf said:

more towards a golf swing.

Exactly what I aspire to.  

Thank you for answering.  

[Josh Parker]

On 2/7/2024 at 9:30 AM, Syks7 said:

Having a very hard time getting the 0317T's out of my head...   I think I'm going to pull the trigger.  That said, I'm going to have to do a bit of funding work first.  Garage cleanup/old club sale coming soon.   

On another note I'm starting to get very curious about bounce and turf interaction -- less about the amount of bounce and more about the location of the bounce on the sole.  I've been following a semi-local club-fitter/small manufacturer up in Ventura  (https://www.foreward.golf/) https://www.instagram.com/matched_up_golf/  He talks a lot about this in his instagram feed along with some other factors in the fitting system he developed.  It's a pretty interesting listen.  

I noticed that 0317T are higher bounce (5º @3I & 14º@PW) than a lot of irons with the location of the bounce  toward the rear of the sole -- a construction shared with the wedges I'm gaming (RTX Zipcore). 

 

Out of curiosity I pulled out some older wedges I have and found that all the ones I got along with best (hit reasonably well most days and in most conditions) are the ones that share this construction -- rear bias and higher bounce.  The ones I remember being inconsistent with (big variation between good striking days and bad striking days) are all still mid-high bounce but with the bounce biased towards the center or leading edge of the sole.  This includes my current irons along with the 639 CB's and MP60's I've cycled through over the last couple years -- wish I could find a good picture of the sole of the RSI2's because I loved those.  I'm curious if the higher bounce and rear location compensates for my heavy contact miss by keeping the leading edge (and sole) up just enough that I get a better turf interaction that doesn't kill the clubhead speed & ball speed.  Obviously this is just one factor, but I'm wondering if it's overlooked by the vast majority of us.  Thoughts from fitters?  @McGolf

There is a thread on Forward Golf and I believe he has jumped on a time or two.  

I have done really well with my Srixon MKII irons and they have the VT soles that help with turf interaction.

 

[edingc]

2 hours ago, Josh Parker said:

There is a thread on Forward Golf and I believe he has jumped on a time or two.  

I have done really well with my Srixon MKII irons and they have the VT soles that help with turf interaction.

 

My Hogan PTx Pro's have the V-sole as well. I'd be hard pressed to go back to anything else. I got along great with the ZX7s in my last fitting, too!

[Donn lost in San Diego]

I was turned off at first at PXG price until I learned about Bob Parsons.  He said he spent $100,000 as a lifelong golfer on equipment, thus decided to start his own company.  He hired away talent from the big name brands.  Then when they came out with lower priced gear I got fit for a good driver.  Outdoors for me, I never feel comfortable swinging all out while indoors, except for wedges. 

I just started a thread, on fittings, anybody with recent experience in San Diego at Club Champ or True Spec?