RickyBobby_PR 4,487 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 28 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said: Certainly equipment and players have changed but I think it would still be interesting to see the difference in typical club selections. I suspect at least two more clubs were used than what, more or less, has become the driver, wedge, and putter tour. Imo for it to even have merit outside of what I mentioned earlier it would have to be done using the same courses from the same distances Quote Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4 Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125 Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to post Share on other sites
revkev 21,702 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Methods to which players score is where the biggest change to the game has happened. The driver has historically never been a scoring club. Hence the phrase "drive for show, putt for dough." By in large, putting and short game skills are a few notches below where Tour players were 20 years ago. Which is directly reflected in Tiger's statement from last week I quoted before. There has never been a more telling graphic than the one posted by AimPoint a month ago. [/url] Short game skill and accuracy have never had less value at the highest levels of golf!I appreciate the discussion here. I disagree that driver has never been a scoring club. I’ve always thought the Locke quote was the product of someone who couldn’t draw the ball well and was jealous of those who did. Ask the people who had to compete against Jack Nicklaus if long and straight made him tough to compete against. Same held true of Bobby Jones. They were the longest,most consistent drivers of the ball in their eras. Having written that there was beyond a doubt more than one way to attack a course then - if you think of the big three what made it so intriguing was the difference between Arnie, Jack and Gary Player. Since sixcat is the architect in the group I’d like to know what he might propose to level the field and make distance simply an attribute among many others. I’m intrigued by the notion of shortening rather than lengthening courses. Like others here I’d like to see a variety of skills tested but not at our expense - I barely hit the ball far enough to enjoy the game now. I don’t need to loose the 15 yards I’ve busted my tail to get back the past year and a half, :(Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy 4 Quote Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex Ping G410 5-9 wood G30 6-PW - Aerotech FT 500 shafts SCOR 48,52,56,60 EVNRoll ER 5 Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them Link to post Share on other sites
RickyBobby_PR 4,487 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 hour ago, revkev said: I appreciate the discussion here. I disagree that driver has never been a scoring club. I’ve always thought the Locke quote was the product of someone who couldn’t draw the ball well and was jealous of those who did. Ask the people who had to compete against Jack Nicklaus if long and straight made him tough to compete against. Same held true of Bobby Jones. They were the longest,most consistent drivers of the ball in their eras. Having written that there was beyond a doubt more than one way to attack a course then - if you think of the big three what made it so intriguing was the difference between Arnie, Jack and Gary Player. Since sixcat is the architect in the group I’d like to know what he might propose to level the field and make distance simply an attribute among many others. I’m intrigued by the notion of shortening rather than lengthening courses. Like others here I’d like to see a variety of skills tested but not at our expense - I barely hit the ball far enough to enjoy the game now. I don’t need to loose the 15 yards I’ve busted my tail to get back the past year and a half, Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Even if they roll the ball or gear back for the tour the guys who hit it a long way now will hit it a long way compared to the shorter hitters. 1 Quote Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4 Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125 Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to post Share on other sites
sixcat 3,549 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 I appreciate the discussion here. I disagree that driver has never been a scoring club. I’ve always thought the Locke quote was the product of someone who couldn’t draw the ball well and was jealous of those who did. Ask the people who had to compete against Jack Nicklaus if long and straight made him tough to compete against. Same held true of Bobby Jones. They were the longest,most consistent drivers of the ball in their eras. Having written that there was beyond a doubt more than one way to attack a course then - if you think of the big three what made it so intriguing was the difference between Arnie, Jack and Gary Player. Since sixcat is the architect in the group I’d like to know what he might propose to level the field and make distance simply an attribute among many others. I’m intrigued by the notion of shortening rather than lengthening courses. Like others here I’d like to see a variety of skills tested but not at our expense - I barely hit the ball far enough to enjoy the game now. I don’t need to loose the 15 yards I’ve busted my tail to get back the past year and a half, :(Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpyFirst of all, accusing an engineer of being an architect is grounds for fisticuffs! As the old saying goes, it’s an architects job to make it pretty. It’s an engineers job to make it work! I can’t take credit for the idea of shorter courses with more width and angles. I have listened to The Golfers Journal and The Fried Egg podcasts a lot over the past couple of years. Especially the episodes featuring Geoff Ogilvy. His insights are revolutionary and quite unique in my estimation. I can’t recommend them enough!Forcing players to shape shots is something modern Tour setups rarely offer. Guys bomb the driver and wedge it to the middle of the green. Angles and width would play a vital role in proper placement of the tee shot in order to get to certain portions of a green. I can’t explain it as well as Ogilvy and Andy Johnson. I would strongly suggest listening to those podcasts. It was eye opening for me. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
perseveringgolfer 4,792 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 9 hours ago, revkev said: - I barely hit the ball far enough to enjoy the game now. I don’t need to loose the 15 yards I’ve busted my tail to get back the past year and a half, off an index of 4 I'd reckon you must still hit it a good way? losing enjoyment can escalate, worth finding a workaround to get the enjoyment back, after all, it's the main - if not the only - reason we play this game. Quote Driver Awaiting NEW Driver (after 10 yrs) 4 Wood Callaway Big Bertha Steelhead plus 4+ Callaway shaft in 'Firm' flex Hybrid Titleist 910H 19* Diamana ahina 'flower' shaft in 'S' Irons Mizuno MP18SC 4-PW N.S Pro Modus3 Tour 105 in 'S' Wedges Callaway Mack Daddy forged in black 50* and 54* KBS Tour in 'R' Putter 'YES' Tracy 11 C groove 34.5" Link to post Share on other sites
GolfSpy Stroker 10,064 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 http://stream.golfchannel.com/pga-tour?pid=223272&utm-tag=golf1308021 Quote StrokerAce EXS 220 HZRDUS Smoke King F7 3w Fujikara Apex 20 Catalyst 6.0 Apex 23 Catalyst 6.0 -------------------------- Z785 KBS CTaper lite RTX Zipcore 54/58 Sigma G Kinloch C -------------------------- nx7 pro rangefinder C130 cart bag Franklin, MA; Right Handed; 10 "the club face sends it, the path bends it..." Link to post Share on other sites
Kenny B 21,592 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 I understand that the FedEx Cup playoffs are for the players that played consistent golf throughout the year, but IMHO it can't be called the Tour Championship anymore. Not when Major champions Tiger Woods and Shane Lowry aren’t playing, and 11 non-winners are. Call it playing for the FedEx Cup, but it is NOT the Tour Championship. 8 Quote “We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.” Link to post Share on other sites
FrogginBullfish 1,327 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Struggle today for JT to keep it at 10 under. Nice rounds from Schauffele and Koepka to get to 10 under as well. McIlroy had a solid round too to get to 9 under.It's not my preferred format, but it certainly has simplified things, which is good.Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RickyBobby_PR 4,487 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Kenny B said: I understand that the FedEx Cup playoffs are for the players that played consistent golf throughout the year, but IMHO it can't be called the Tour Championship anymore. Not when Major champions Tiger Woods and Shane Lowry aren’t playing, and 11 non-winners are. Call it playing for the FedEx Cup, but it is NOT the Tour Championship. It’s the playoffs. You don’t play good you don’t advance. The majors while given high importance with the moniker it’s still just one event on the schedule. In other sports the team with the best record isn’t guaranteed a spot in the championship game. If someone won a major and missed every cut in the other events they played should they get a spot in the tour championship? what if a pga teaching pro won the pga championship should they get a spot? 2 Quote Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4 Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125 Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to post Share on other sites
bens197 5,564 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 I’m sorry but this handicapping is the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen in professional sports. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy 2 Quote PING G400 LST 8.5 Evenflow Black 65g 6.5 PING G 3W HZRDUS Yellow 75g 6.0 Mizuno HMB MP20 3i Nippon Modus 3 120S Ben Hogan PTx Combo Nippon Modus 3 120S Maltby TSW 52, 58 Nippon Modus Wedge Bettinardi BB8 Wide Oncore Elixr Rochester, NY 5.6 Index Link to post Share on other sites
FrogginBullfish 1,327 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 It's not my favourite format but it's no different to qualifying sessions in Motorsports. The driver who gets pole has a better starting position than the rest come race day. That's really all it is.I’m sorry but this handicapping is the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen in professional sports. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpySent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RickyBobby_PR 4,487 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 48 minutes ago, bens197 said: I’m sorry but this handicapping is the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen in professional sports. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy And yet on day 1 there’s been excitement and the leader going in is now tied. It did a good job creating some drama last week and now starting off with it 1 Quote Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4 Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125 Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to post Share on other sites
bens197 5,564 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 It's not my favourite format but it's no different to qualifying sessions in Motorsports. The driver who gets pole has a better starting position than the rest come race day. That's really all it is. Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app That would be cool if golf were Motocross. Whatever, adapt or die right? Quote PING G400 LST 8.5 Evenflow Black 65g 6.5 PING G 3W HZRDUS Yellow 75g 6.0 Mizuno HMB MP20 3i Nippon Modus 3 120S Ben Hogan PTx Combo Nippon Modus 3 120S Maltby TSW 52, 58 Nippon Modus Wedge Bettinardi BB8 Wide Oncore Elixr Rochester, NY 5.6 Index Link to post Share on other sites
bens197 5,564 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 And yet on day 1 there’s been excitement and the leader going in is now tied. It did a good job creating some drama last week and now starting off with itI get it, I just disagree with the premise. Quote PING G400 LST 8.5 Evenflow Black 65g 6.5 PING G 3W HZRDUS Yellow 75g 6.0 Mizuno HMB MP20 3i Nippon Modus 3 120S Ben Hogan PTx Combo Nippon Modus 3 120S Maltby TSW 52, 58 Nippon Modus Wedge Bettinardi BB8 Wide Oncore Elixr Rochester, NY 5.6 Index Link to post Share on other sites
revkev 21,702 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 First of all, accusing an engineer of being an architect is grounds for fisticuffs! As the old saying goes, it’s an architects job to make it pretty. It’s an engineers job to make it work! I can’t take credit for the idea of shorter courses with more width and angles. I have listened to The Golfers Journal and The Fried Egg podcasts a lot over the past couple of years. Especially the episodes featuring Geoff Ogilvy. His insights are revolutionary and quite unique in my estimation. I can’t recommend them enough!Forcing players to shape shots is something modern Tour setups rarely offer. Guys bomb the driver and wedge it to the middle of the green. Angles and width would play a vital role in proper placement of the tee shot in order to get to certain portions of a green. I can’t explain it as well as Ogilvy and Andy Johnson. I would strongly suggest listening to those podcasts. It was eye opening for me. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpySorry that I misunderstood your vocation - I’m acutely aware of the difference.:)I would love to see a greater emphasis in hitting shots - I’m watching a classic example of bomb and gouge as I watch today’s replay - I remember going to Westchester as a teen and young adult. 10 under rarely won on a course that was well under 7,000. It required shots and was fun to watch. It also had plenty of holes where straight and long were rewarded particularly on the back (as they played the course). 8, 10, 15, 18 jump to mind as holes that could be played in a variety of ways - bombers could try and take them on but if they missed they were punished.That’s great, exciting golf Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Quote Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex Ping G410 5-9 wood G30 6-PW - Aerotech FT 500 shafts SCOR 48,52,56,60 EVNRoll ER 5 Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them Link to post Share on other sites
revkev 21,702 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 While we are here let’s talk pace of play, too. I well remember Fuzzy and Norman completing a playoff for the US Open in under 3 hours on a brutal course. Under 3 hours for the US Open —And Fuzzy shot in the 60’s Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy 3 Quote Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex Ping G410 5-9 wood G30 6-PW - Aerotech FT 500 shafts SCOR 48,52,56,60 EVNRoll ER 5 Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them Link to post Share on other sites
sixcat 3,549 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 7 hours ago, revkev said: While we are here let’s talk pace of play, too. I well remember Fuzzy and Norman completing a playoff for the US Open in under 3 hours on a brutal course. Under 3 hours for the US Open — And Fuzzy shot in the 60’s Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy I remember that. Winged Foot in 1984. I was 9 years old. Being the only person in my extended family interested in golf, my dad and uncles were teasing me for being glued to the TV on a beautiful summer day to watch golf. I believe there is a lot of "paralysis by analysis" on Tour today. Guys try so hard to get every little detail perfect, they forget the biggest factor is the 6 inches between the ears. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sixcat 3,549 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 8 hours ago, revkev said: Sorry that I misunderstood your vocation - I’m acutely aware of the difference.:) I would love to see a greater emphasis in hitting shots - I’m watching a classic example of bomb and gouge as I watch today’s replay - I remember going to Westchester as a teen and young adult. 10 under rarely won on a course that was well under 7,000. It required shots and was fun to watch. It also had plenty of holes where straight and long were rewarded particularly on the back (as they played the course). 8, 10, 15, 18 jump to mind as holes that could be played in a variety of ways - bombers could try and take them on but if they missed they were punished. That’s great, exciting golf Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy No worries. It was all meant in good humor. We have actually worked with several course architects through the years. Mostly courses in Virginia, North Carolina and Tennessee. Those guys have a good idea how they want courses to fit the topography but regulatory agencies require licensed engineers to sign and seal a set of design plans. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RickyBobby_PR 4,487 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 10 hours ago, bens197 said: I get it, I just disagree with the premise. So you wont be watching any of the tournament then? Quote Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4 Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125 Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to post Share on other sites
bens197 5,564 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 So you wont be watching any of the tournament then?No. On vacation with my family this week. 1 Quote PING G400 LST 8.5 Evenflow Black 65g 6.5 PING G 3W HZRDUS Yellow 75g 6.0 Mizuno HMB MP20 3i Nippon Modus 3 120S Ben Hogan PTx Combo Nippon Modus 3 120S Maltby TSW 52, 58 Nippon Modus Wedge Bettinardi BB8 Wide Oncore Elixr Rochester, NY 5.6 Index Link to post Share on other sites
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