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JudgeSmails

Most Wanted Drivers 2017 vs 2019

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I have a question about driver testing. So I have been playing the 2017 GBB Epic, and recently kind of lucked into and Epic Flash head. I was curious what (if any) the performance difference would be. So I went to your 2017 Most Wanted and your 2019 Most Wanted to compare the numbers. Odd finding, not just the Epic line, but on pretty much all drivers across the board, the 2017 numbers for ball speed and distance are higher. Ball Speeds are about 5mph higher and Carry distance is about 10 yards more. This is across the board on all drivers. Any change in testing between those 2 years to explain that?

I submitted this question to MGS on facebook and they haven't responded, maybe someone here (or an MGS Staffer) has some ideas?  Thanks

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Edited by JudgeSmails
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At present, there is no way to compare Most Wanted Testing across years, because the tester pools are different each year. Those overall differences that you're seeing between 2017 and 2019 are not differences in clubs, but differences in the guys swinging them.

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2 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

At present, there is no way to compare Most Wanted Testing across years, because the tester pools are different each year. Those overall differences that you're seeing between 2017 and 2019 are not differences in clubs, but differences in the guys swinging them.

Thank you!  I kind of figured that was it, but wanted to check.  OBV comparing the 2 most wanted tests won't do me much good then, so it's off for my own comparisons 🙂

 

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1 minute ago, JudgeSmails said:

Thank you!  I kind of figured that was it, but wanted to check.  OBV comparing the 2 most wanted tests won't do me much good then, so it's off for my own comparisons 🙂

Over the years, I've seen a lot of requests for cross-year testing, even just included the previous year's winner in the next year's testing. I think time is the main obstacle; each club added to the test adds a lot more shots.

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1 hour ago, JudgeSmails said:

Thank you!  I kind of figured that was it, but wanted to check.  OBV comparing the 2 most wanted tests won't do me much good then, so it's off for my own comparisons 🙂

 

I would watch reviews for the 2017 clubs and comparable 2019 clubs on YouTube done by the same reviewer.  I can't imagine most of them have changed their swings that much in two years. That would be closer to what you're looking for.

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2 hours ago, JudgeSmails said:

Thank you!  I kind of figured that was it, but wanted to check.  OBV comparing the 2 most wanted tests won't do me much good then, so it's off for my own comparisons 🙂

 

 

... I have always said these kinds of tests are just a starting point. I swing around 100 mph with a smooth and deliberate transition and have a positive AOA. So someone testing the same driver that has a 100 mph swing with an aggressive transition, short hard hitter with a negative AOA will have zero similar results with any driver/shaft combo. And driver shaft combo is also huge for anyone looking at any tests. The Atmos Tour Spec Blue is a great fit for my swing and for fun I tried the Atmos Tour Spec Black and lost distance and trajectory as well as feel because it felt like I was not unloading the shaft producing the illusion that I needed to swing harder. Otoh after playing the Even Flow Blue I tried the Even Flow Black and it worked well for me. No amount of testing by others will give me results that my independent testing will produce. 

... So while given some results with a combined number of golfers does provide a starting point, what anyone may find for their individual swing can be very different than the tests, so as you point out "it is off for my own comparisons" and exactly what most of us will need to do. 

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19 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I have always said these kinds of tests are just a starting point. I swing around 100 mph with a smooth and deliberate transition and have a positive AOA. So someone testing the same driver that has a 100 mph swing with an aggressive transition, short hard hitter with a negative AOA will have zero similar results with any driver/shaft combo. And driver shaft combo is also huge for anyone looking at any tests. The Atmos Tour Spec Blue is a great fit for my swing and for fun I tried the Atmos Tour Spec Black and lost distance and trajectory as well as feel because it felt like I was not unloading the shaft producing the illusion that I needed to swing harder. Otoh after playing the Even Flow Blue I tried the Even Flow Black and it worked well for me. No amount of testing by others will give me results that my independent testing will produce. 

... So while given some results with a combined number of golfers does provide a starting point, what anyone may find for their individual swing can be very different than the tests, so as you point out "it is off for my own comparisons" and exactly what most of us will need to do. 

Yeah, totally agree...it was just going to be a starting point 

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57 minutes ago, TwoCoatsOfWax said:

I would watch reviews for the 2017 clubs and comparable 2019 clubs on YouTube done by the same reviewer.  I can't imagine most of them have changed their swings that much in two years. That would be closer to what you're looking for.

I did do some of that...there are a few comparisons out there

Also, are you just finishing up the second coat now?

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2 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Over the years, I've seen a lot of requests for cross-year testing, even just included the previous year's winner in the next year's testing. I think time is the main obstacle; each club added to the test adds a lot more shots.

These test already require a ton of time. adding more clubs from previous years really does not sweeten the pie in my mind. 

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If it's a time issue, curious as to why MGS doesn't put out a call for forum members in the surrounding area to come down and lend a hand. I'm sure many would jump at the chance to check out the facility, meet the staff, and have a hand in creating a Most Wanted product - I know I would!

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If it's a time issue, curious as to why MGS doesn't put out a call for forum members in the surrounding area to come down and lend a hand. I'm sure many would jump at the chance to check out the facility, meet the staff, and have a hand in creating a Most Wanted product - I know I would!

They have an open door policy and on one of the past no putts given Harry said to shoot him an email and you could be a tester. I have even seen signs at local courses and golf shops.

 

I am pretty sure they do have a limit on the number of testers for each product. This is due to space limitations at the facility (2 gc quads, and 1 putting green) and who they can fit in during the day. This years driver test is roughly a 40 hour commitment for each tester. 4 drivers each session with a total of 9 sessions. Each session is an hour plus which includes some warm up time, following the prescribed protocol; and providing subjective feedback. I get in 1 to 2 sessions a week.

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54 minutes ago, cnosil said:

They have an open door policy and on one of the past no putts given Harry said to shoot him an email and you could be a tester. I have even seen signs at local courses and golf shops.

 

I am pretty sure they do have a limit on the number of testers for each product. This is due to space limitations at the facility (2 gc quads, and 1 putting green) and who they can fit in during the day. This years driver test is roughly a 40 hour commitment for each tester. 4 drivers each session with a total of 9 sessions. Each session is an hour plus which includes some warm up time, following the prescribed protocol; and providing subjective feedback. I get in 1 to 2 sessions a week.

Thanks so much to you and all of our testers.  I remember seeing this result a few years back - where the prior year's ball speed and yardages were greater so I asked and it was exactly because of the difference in the testing pool. 

I also remember a year or two where we had some information about each of the testers - these very nice when looking for a starting point.  Since I haven't really been in the driver market the past few years perhaps its been there and I've missed it.

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This is an intriguing idea, but the logistics would be....   interesting.  🙂

The Rick Shiels "5 years of XXXX drivers" videos are the closest to this, such as I've seen.   <shrug>

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@JudgeSmails the club speed is missing from the 2019 testing. The club and ball speed will be similarly correlated. If 2019 testing was abt 99-100mph then there's an interesting difference in performance.

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[mention=55830]JudgeSmails[/mention] the club speed is missing from the 2019 testing. The club and ball speed will be similarly correlated. If 2019 testing was abt 99-100mph then there's an interesting difference in performance.

 

Still impossible to correlate. Don’t know how many players are in the stats for the various swing speeds and we don’t know where the player was hitting it on the face. My 100mph toe hits will potentially have less ball speed than a players 95mph sweet spot hit. To do any real comparison, you would have to have the entire set of data

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Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but TXG just started doing some comparison videos with drivers a few models old.  I'm not sure if the got an OG Epic to compare to or not though.

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14 minutes ago, B.Boston said:

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but TXG just started doing some comparison videos with drivers a few models old.  I'm not sure if the got an OG Epic to compare to or not though.

The ones I’ve seen lately have been model year replacement like rogue vs mavrik, m5/6 vs sim/max. Not sure their setup/policy with the various manufactures but I would guess something that’s more than 1 release cycle back they don’t stock and more than likely have sent back to the oem

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I’d still like to see last years winner in the mix... testers will be different, etc, and all that is true. But it will still be hit by the same testers this time around, and one more club wouldn’t make that big a difference. And if it does, then I would drop a club that is known to not be in the top 3 or 4. It’ll still be apples to apples for this years testing.

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This was one of TXGs recent Instagram posts. I’m excited for these videos. Can’t wait to see the M2 video.

IMG_4627.JPG


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This was one of TXGs recent Instagram posts. I’m excited for these videos. Can’t wait to see the M2 video.

IMG_4627.thumb.JPG.0d66c7b8fa2aa3416707ef35f2a8d7e8.JPG


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That should be a really good compare!


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