Planned 2030 Golf Ball Rollback

[Samuel09152]

23 minutes ago, GaDawg said:

I resent you talking about me.

I felt personally attacked by that as well. We are just use to talking over bush hogs and mowers, we can’t help but make noise! Lol  what Brian Harman say after winning the open “I just want to get on my new tractor and drink beer out of this trophy…” or something like that! Lol never felt represented on tour until that moment 

[racingdaly]

2 minutes ago, BigBoiGolf said:

Drivers being too "forgiving", generally when people say this they think MOI, is meaningless to pros who hit it out of the center of the face or within a half inch on either side. Blame the current size dimensional limits on the driver. Only way to reduce forgiveness is to make the heads smaller

https://ralphmaltby.com/how-moment-of-inertia-moi-affects-driver-playability/

Yeah, I didn't say anything about decreasing forgiveness without decreasing size. The article I linked to is Tiger talking about the difference between today's drivers and his older, smaller driver. 

Interestingly in the NLU interview, Whan mentioned he was working for an OEM as size limits were increased (eventually up to 460cc) and their thinking at the time was all about how the larger head could be swung faster, they weren't focused on forgiveness at the time. 

 

[Donn lost in San Diego]

Now that I actually read the proposed change . . .. . .    wha?  15 yards less for the fastest driver speeds, 10 to 15 for the bulk of pros, and probably 5 yards for the other 99.9999999%.

 

Somehow, I don't care.  I still think the tours need to work with the courses to make the courses a bit harder for the big boys to bomb and gouge.  More deep rough, and narrower fairways, and some really nasty OB on doglegs.   Import some wild animals from Africa and Asia too.  Lions near the fairway sand, and snakes in the thick rough.

[GolfSpy_APH]

I am curious for those stated 6% or so that have said they will quit if this happens. I really want to know if they actually would. I know 6% isn't a big number, but it is significant enough. Of course our poll is much less, but we are a smaller sample size and lets face it golf sickos so I would expect it to be lower. 

I guess for me it brings up a greater concern, are people golfing for the wrong reasons? Are we not communicating or teaching the beauty of all the other elements of golf if 5 yards is going to cause a mass of people to quit? I dunno seems like there is a message somewhere within that where we are missing getting the message out on why this game is so great... and frustrating, and addictive and everything else. 

[Fongle]

I mean, this will likely disproportionately affect me more than the average golfer with my swing speeds and I'll likely see that 10-15 yd loss, and I definitely do not agree with it, but I'm certainly not planning on quitting. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

Whether you like this whole thing or not it would be worth the 40 minutes or so to listen to the NLU interview posted yesterday with Mike Whan and the R&A guy. Yes it's in the side of being in favour and justifying the reasoning, but for the purpose of being informed and at least trying to have an open mind about all of this it is a must listen. 

[Josh Parker]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I am curious for those stated 6% or so that have said they will quit if this happens. I really want to know if they actually would. I know 6% isn't a big number, but it is significant enough. Of course our poll is much less, but we are a smaller sample size and lets face it golf sickos so I would expect it to be lower. 

I guess for me it brings up a greater concern, are people golfing for the wrong reasons? Are we not communicating or teaching the beauty of all the other elements of golf if 5 yards is going to cause a mass of people to quit? I dunno seems like there is a message somewhere within that where we are missing getting the message out on why this game is so great... and frustrating, and addictive and everything else. 

I was looking for some numbers the other day on this topic and was going to respond to someone's post, but came across that the average that quit every year was I think around 7-10% that quit every year and since covid has been around 15% starting to play.  (Numbers varied on different sites and no concrete number)

This game is expensive and difficult.  Fear plays a large factor in things like this when it's blasted everywhere and the distance loss numbers have been all over the board.  

[Fongle]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Whether you like this whole thing or not it would be worth the 40 minutes or so to listen to the NLU interview posted yesterday with Mike Whan and the R&A guy. Yes it's in the side of being in favour and justifying the reasoning, but for the purpose of being informed and at least trying to have an open mind about all of this it is a must listen. 

Cheers, will have a listen now 

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 hours ago, racingdaly said:

There's basically no distance penalty for pros on off-center hits. The whole premise is that skill (such as hitting the center of the face) should be rewarded. As is (as strokes gained data shows) there's no risk in the risk-reward of just swinging out of your shoes. Hit it as far as possible and figure it out later

That may be the case for the slower swinger but it’s not the case for the high swing player and the higher swing players on tour aren’t swinging out of their shoes and the top end guys aren’t even maxing out (see Sasho Mackenzie’s comments about the ability for the pros to gain back the lost distance by increasing their swing speed). Then look at Bryson who complains about the face and not being able to control the ball on mishits. Then read finau’s comments about why he’s not hitting further due to the risk for the extra distance isn’t worth it. Reducing the ball isn’t going to fix anything and the tour average of 115mph will jump to 120 or higher as pointed out by Sasho.

 

9 hours ago, racingdaly said:

They also would be looking to do this as an MLR so it only limits equipment for elite players/pros and has no impact on us average players. Still, they tried that with the ball, and the players and OEMs bitched and moaned about it and said they wouldn't adopt it so they were left with no choice but to roll back for all.

The tour isn’t going to accept this mlr and as for the rollback if they ruling bodies actually listened to the OEMs and others who presented them with data that completely contradicts everything they said and actually cared to talk to experts like Sasho they could have just did nothing and the game would have been fine for the next 20 years. 
 

Bifurcation isnt good for the game and if the ruling bodies try some form of it with the clubs there will be even bigger push back and probably more lawsuits than they would like. It’s not just the driver that would have to be addressed it’s the fairway woods and hybrids too. If anyone thinks a smaller head is the solution look at how far the top end guys hit their 3w without swinging all out. Also look at DJ with a modern ball hitting Jacks persimmon 300 yards. A club that’s not even optimized for him

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 hours ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

Now that I actually read the proposed change . . .. . .    wha?  15 yards less for the fastest driver speeds, 10 to 15 for the bulk of pros, and probably 5 yards for the other 99.9999999%.

 

Somehow, I don't care.  I still think the tours need to work with the courses to make the courses a bit harder for the big boys to bomb and gouge.  More deep rough, and narrower fairways, and some really nasty OB on doglegs.   Import some wild animals from Africa and Asia too.  Lions near the fairway sand, and snakes in the thick rough.

Again the tour has no issue with distance. At no point in time has the tour said we need to reduce the distance these guys are hitting the ball. They were also agains the mlr because it reduces distance for their members and creates bifurcation. 
 

The tour actually setups their courses on purpose to create more distance. They have fast and firm fairways, rough that’s not penal at most courses. So to them distance is a good thing. Which is why one of the reasons people say there isn’t a distance problem.

Its the ruling bodies who don’t like the distance because of some of their courses used for the two open championships and their claim that it’s not a challenge or whatever for the pros and elite amateurs yet they consciously choose these courses for other play like the walker cup at st Andrews this year. They play the Dunhill there too.

and as has been pointed out by superintendents association, various oens, broadie and the actual pga data there isn’t a distance problem 

[Ben_Howell34]

10 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You should go back further because this talking point has been debunked.

Average driving distance has gone up from 289 to 299 in the last 20 years because access to launch monitors helped optimize ball flight rather than relying on the eye test. Golfers are more athletic now and train better in the gym. You don’t have to lengthen. Courses because more people hit to 300 while the top end of distance hasn’t changed. People don’t like more pros hitting it further than their idols. Also the pga tour has chosen to keep the courses around the same length over the last 20 years because on the pro tour there isn’t a distance problem. It’s a problem created by the ruling bodies.

 

The strokes gained cat is out of the bag and it’s not going back in. Distance will always be a premium going forward and the further they lengthen courses or reduce distance the faster the pros will get. The ones that can’t will be off the tour. Sasho Mackenzie has explained this and the ruling bodies have chosen not to talk with him about it. Go check out the data, pros use more than a wedge or mid irons when they play. If they didn’t then they are just punishing their caddies by making them carry a full bag

 Nope. Broadie has published data on this when the ball is shortened or thru a club change that reduce distance it’s the same as lengthening courses and it gives the longer hitter the strokes gained advantage and what it does is create more golfers who hit farther because distance is now a bigger advantage 

It’s the same ball makeup as what’s at retail that you and the rest of us can. Hy, they match the same specs. There is no difference. 
 

In a poll after the announcement 6% of golfers said they would quit. That is a lot and not good for the sport. The sport is in a great place and you don’t change the game and risk making it worse.

baseball lowered the mound because of dominant pitchers and to give the hitters a chance and to increase the offense.

golf hasn’t gotten out of hand at the pro level. Max distance is the same as it was in 2003 and average distance is up only 10 yards in the last 20 years. Scoring Verage is basically unchanged in that time.

So far the USGA hasn’t proved that 7 yards will be the distance loss. Their own testing shows an 11 yard loss on a 221 yard drive. Srixon testing shows 30+ yards for their pros and the non pros weren’t happy with the results either 

An article from GOLF posted 6 days ago says 15 yards max for the elite PGA longest drivers. 5-6 yards for an amateur. 
 

Personally, I don’t really care either way. I would probably leave as is, but I understand what they are thinking. What I don’t understand is everyone freaking out about not playing the same ball. Believe it or not we are not on the same playing field as pros. If you go to Pebble and shoot 65 you didn’t achieve something Tiger did. Every sport has changes as you move up: football size gets bigger/different, rules change from high school to college to pro, baseball uses aluminum bats till pro, basketball courts aren’t as big, longer 3 point line, etc. 

I have no right to say I don’t believe the 6% who said they’d quit, but if someone likes golf I do have a really hard time believing they will just up and quit due to a *slight* equipment change that will affect the longest hitters the most. Maybe try it post change and see what happens? 
 

 

[PJVicary]

What it comes down to is the fact that irrespective of what we think or how much we ****** these  these fools are going to move ahead with the ball and very soon after the equipment changes we are reading about. Yes we will mutter and talk about it in the club houses, bars and tees but, it’s not going to stop us from playing the game we love and we will adjust to this quicker than you think. I suspect  90% of the people playing have little to no understanding of what’s going on and more importantly, don’t care. 

[DaveP043]

4 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I am curious for those stated 6% or so that have said they will quit if this happens. I really want to know if they actually would. I know 6% isn't a big number, but it is significant enough. Of course our poll is much less, but we are a smaller sample size and lets face it golf sickos so I would expect it to be lower. 

I guess for me it brings up a greater concern, are people golfing for the wrong reasons? Are we not communicating or teaching the beauty of all the other elements of golf if 5 yards is going to cause a mass of people to quit? I dunno seems like there is a message somewhere within that where we are missing getting the message out on why this game is so great... and frustrating, and addictive and everything else. 

My best guess is that when people get mad, they say or do things they otherwise wouldn't. 

"I'll never speak to him again!"

I'll never play golf with that a****le again!"

"I'll never play golf again!"

When it comes time to follow through most (not all) will change their minds.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

14 minutes ago, Ben_Howell34 said:

An article from GOLF posted 6 days ago says 15 yards max for the elite PGA longest drivers. 5-6 yards for an amateur. 
 

Personally, I don’t really care either way. I would probably leave as is, but I understand what they are thinking. What I don’t understand is everyone freaking out about not playing the same ball. Believe it or not we are not on the same playing field as pros. If you go to Pebble and shoot 65 you didn’t achieve something Tiger did. Every sport has changes as you move up: football size gets bigger/different, rules change from high school to college to pro, baseball uses aluminum bats till pro, basketball courts aren’t as big, longer 3 point line, etc. 

I have no right to say I don’t believe the 6% who said they’d quit, but if someone likes golf I do have a really hard time believing they will just up and quit due to a *slight* equipment change that will affect the longest hitters the most. Maybe try it post change and see what happens? 
 

 

That is based on the ruling bodies data which so far has been proven false even in their own testing. Mr. Pagel in an interview stated in their testing a golfer with a 221 yard drive saw a loss of 11 yards. In testing by Srixon all their testers lost distance and didn’t like it. Keegan Bradley saw 30-40 yards and Lucas gloved was only hitting 240 yard drives. So until the ruling bodies produce their data that shows these states claims of 8-15 yards for guys in the 115+, 5-7 for lpga/let pros and 3-5 for the average golfer. They are just claims and not facts. Also they have produced very little about affects on iron play.

As for the 6% losing distance because some organization doesn’t like how a pro tour sets up their courses can take the fun out of the game. There are lots of golfers the at play just for fun. When the game isn’t fun anymore people leave. I have friends who quit golf in the last year because it wasn’t fun anymore and these are guys that are carrying 5 hdcp or lower. 
 

[RickyBobby_PR]

7 minutes ago, PJVicary said:

What it comes down to is the fact that irrespective of what we think or how much we ****** these  these fools are going to move ahead with the ball and very soon after the equipment changes we are reading about. Yes we will mutter and talk about it in the club houses, bars and tees but, it’s not going to stop us from playing the game we love and we will adjust to this quicker than you think. I suspect  90% of the people playing have little to no understanding of what’s going on and more importantly, don’t care. 

I already play less golf than I did in the past and that’s not going to change anytime soon. I would have no problem stepping away from the game I love over this ruling. I gave up my USGA membership years ago because of how bad the USGA is

[Ben_Howell34]

2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

That is based on the ruling bodies data which so far has been proven false even in their own testing. Mr. Pagel in an interview stated in their testing a golfer with a 221 yard drive saw a loss of 11 yards. In testing by Srixon all their testers lost distance and didn’t like it. Keegan Bradley saw 30-40 yards and Lucas gloved was only hitting 240 yard drives. So until the ruling bodies produce their data that shows these states claims of 8-15 yards for guys in the 115+, 5-7 for lpga/let pros and 3-5 for the average golfer. They are just claims and not facts. Also they have produced very little about affects on iron play.

As for the 6% losing distance because some organization doesn’t like how a pro tour sets up their courses can take the fun out of the game. There are lots of golfers the at play just for fun. When the game isn’t fun anymore people leave. I have friends who quit golf in the last year because it wasn’t fun anymore and these are guys that are carrying 5 hdcp or lower. 
 

If the changes are as drastic as you say I can understand possibly quitting, although I doubt I would. Why did your friends quit? We will see. Both sides obviously have an agenda, but I don’t really see how adding 5 MPH to the test would take 40 yards off a drive. I think it’s also tough to know what the ball will be like in 2028-2030 once the manufactures have had 4-6 years to produce this ball. Who knows what the ball looks like that is conforming to the new rules right now for testing, it may have other factors that have slowed it down. 

[ejgaudette]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I already play less golf than I did in the past and that’s not going to change anytime soon. I would have no problem stepping away from the game I love over this ruling. I gave up my USGA membership years ago because of how bad the USGA is

Ok I know some folks have mentioned this and I truly just want to know why do you golf then if this change makes you ready to leave the sport. Have other things already mostly taken your interest? I personally am just no anywhere close to leaving the sport over the change so I find it hard to know why one would leave.

[fixyurdivot]

9 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I already play less golf than I did in the past and that’s not going to change anytime soon. I would have no problem stepping away from the game I love over this ruling. I gave up my USGA membership years ago because of how bad the USGA is

There's no way a rollback would make me quit the game.  I can stockpile enough current balls to last my lifetime... heck, I may have already done that .  I haven't discussed this with too many in our men's league but I fully expect a bunch of retired 60+ players could care less that we play the same ball as pro's - and we'll just use a local rule for our league play to use any "pre dip$&TT" ruling, conforming ball.  The rest of the non-league groups I play with most definitely won't switch as half of them have been moving to forward tees.  

I think the poll is reflecting that "playing the same equipment as pro's" is not as important as has been stated - particularly by the USGA, PGAT and OEM's.  

I don't know the numbers, but would guess that at least 90% of all rounds played worldwide are "casual play format".  That is to say while a good many can be a serious as a heart attack, from a competition perspective, they are still a bunch of amateurs going out and having fun.  Most will continue to follow all the general rules of the game, and/or those they have agreed to play too, and will simply ignore the rollback balls.

So assuming non neutered balls are still available from some or all of the OEM's, no problem. Rest assured that if there is a market for non rollback balls there will be someone offering them... because as we all know, it's all about the money and we "Joe Public players" are a BIG golden goose.

[BigBoiGolf]

6 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I am curious for those stated 6% or so that have said they will quit if this happens. I really want to know if they actually would. I know 6% isn't a big number, but it is significant enough. Of course our poll is much less, but we are a smaller sample size and lets face it golf sickos so I would expect it to be lower. 

I guess for me it brings up a greater concern, are people golfing for the wrong reasons? Are we not communicating or teaching the beauty of all the other elements of golf if 5 yards is going to cause a mass of people to quit? I dunno seems like there is a message somewhere within that where we are missing getting the message out on why this game is so great... and frustrating, and addictive and everything else. 

My friends who shoot 90+ have stated to me when I asked what they'd do if they lost 5 - 10 yards:

- The ones in a league said they probably would keep playing and they only play for the social aspect but do not like the idea of possibly playing worse or moving up teeboxes after practicing. One did comment how stupid it was he just bought TP5s knowing they will be better than what comes next and would consider used.

- The ones that aren't said they would stop playing and stick with social drinking/golfing venues like TopGolf

As for myself who is interested in playing tournaments, I see no value in practicing for these tournaments when I'd have to go through the entire process again with a new ball after spending thousands on fittings, practice, clubs, etc just to have the flight I want at the numbers I want. Then again, I've been playing golf since I was 8. I will not renew my GHIN instead and stop volunteering for helping with some small tournaments instead.

I think the rules officials are vastly over-counting diehard golfers as opposed to casual/temporary golfers. Only 1 person in my friend group played golf before COVID. I think if the golf experience gets worse, the others will drop the game as quickly as they picked it up.

Edited December 12, 2023 by BigBoiGolf

[vandyland]

4 minutes ago, BigBoiGolf said:

As for myself who is interested in playing tournaments, I see no value in practicing for these tournaments when I'd have to go through the entire process again with a new ball after spending thousands on fittings, practice, clubs, etc just to have the flight I want at the numbers I want. Then again, I've been playing golf since I was 8. I will not renew my GHIN instead and stop volunteering for helping with some small tournaments instead.

I am getting myself sucked in here so that's on me. But....have you ever played golf at altitude? Or in cold temps? Pretty big difference between how far the ball goes at 85 degrees in Denver Colorado vs 45 degrees in Nashville TN. I didn't feel like I had to go and buy two different sets of golf clubs to play those two changes. And I would say the carry distance difference there, with a driver, was probably 30 yds which is much less than they are currently proposing. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

2 minutes ago, BigBoiGolf said:

My friends who shoot 90+ have stated to me when I asked what they'd do if they lost 5 - 10 yards:

- The ones in a league said they probably would keep playing and they only play for the social aspect but do not like the idea of possibly playing worse or moving up teeboxes after practicing. One did comment how stupid it was he just bought TP5s knowing they will be better than what comes next and would consider used.

- The ones that aren't said they would stop playing and stick with social drinking/golfing venues like TopGolf

As for myself who is interested in playing tournaments, I see no value in practicing for these tournaments when I'd have to go through the entire process again with a new ball after spending thousands on fittings, practice, clubs, etc just to have the flight I want at the numbers I want. Then again, I've been playing golf since I was 8.

I think the rules officials are vastly over-counting diehard golfers as opposed to casual/temporary golfers. Only 1 person in my friend group played golf before COVID. I think if the golf experience gets worse, the others will drop the game as quickly as they picked it up.

5 yards would really make you quit after playing for 20 plus years? 

5 yards isn't going to make anyone play worse. Not to mention I would imagine that most amateurs see more than 5 yards variance based solely on driver strike location.

I'm not saying at all this is the right or wrong decision to rollback the ball..however the notion of quitting because it may mean an extra half club sometimes on some tee shots (which bending irons a degree strong could make up for) is just wild to me. 

Also the ppl going out getting golf balls now to save for them is also kinda amusing as it's 6 years min before this all happens.

[BigBoiGolf]

5 minutes ago, vandyland said:

I am getting myself sucked in here so that's on me. But....have you ever played golf at altitude? Or in cold temps? Pretty big difference between how far the ball goes at 85 degrees in Denver Colorado vs 45 degrees in Nashville TN. I didn't feel like I had to go and buy two different sets of golf clubs to play those two changes. And I would say the carry distance difference there, with a driver, was probably 30 yds which is much less than they are currently proposing. 

 

Yes. I also don't drive between Denver and Nashville to go play golf. It's called a localized expectation of performance. I also am in complete control of that choice to go play when it's cold or raining out. I ain't getting younger and healthier, quite the opposite in fact.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Ben_Howell34 said:

If the changes are as drastic as you say I can understand possibly quitting, although I doubt I would. Why did your friends quit? We will see. Both sides obviously have an agenda, but I don’t really see how adding 5 MPH to the test would take 40 yards off a drive. I think it’s also tough to know what the ball will be like in 2028-2030 once the manufactures have had 4-6 years to produce this ball. Who knows what the ball looks like that is conforming to the new rules right now for testing, it may have other factors that have slowed it down. 

The game just want fun anymore. Like me they put in tons of work each week working on getting better. We all enjoyed the work and playing. But for them they no longer got joy from the game. My friends in Miami all quit the game. They are now playing pickleball and having a blast. It has nothing to do with less time to play and suck. It’s just more fun for them.

I don’t have the time to put in to practice or play and I’m not going to try and spend the time to adjust and work on everything all over again. Not to mention I get more joy out of giving back to things I love so my side business takes priority as will my additional 1-2 businesses that I’m working on. As much as I love golf and equipment it’s not that important in the grand scheme of things. 

1 hour ago, ejgaudette said:

Ok I know some folks have mentioned this and I truly just want to know why do you golf then if this change makes you ready to leave the sport. Have other things already mostly taken your interest? I personally am just no anywhere close to leaving the sport over the change so I find it hard to know why one would leave.

Things that have had my interest were there when I was playing a lot. I am just prioritizing them more and will continue to do so. Having to make adjustments because the ruling bodies are set on taking the game backwards doesn’t appeal to me. 

18 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

5 yards would really make you quit after playing for 20 plus years? 

5 yards isn't going to make anyone play worse. Not to mention I would imagine that most amateurs see more than 5 yards variance based solely on driver strike location.

I'm not saying at all this is the right or wrong decision to rollback the ball..however the notion of quitting because it may mean an extra half club sometimes on some tee shots (which bending irons a degree strong could make up for) is just wild to me. 

Also the ppl going out getting golf balls now to save for them is also kinda amusing as it's 6 years min before this all happens.

Until there’s actual data I doubt these 5 yard statements are true. Whether it wa s a Freudian slip or whatever Mike Whan slipped up in an interview and called them proposals.

Their own testing with NP-500 ball doesn’t match their statements 

[BigBoiGolf]

12 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I'm not saying at all this is the right or wrong decision to rollback the ball..however the notion of quitting because it may mean an extra half club sometimes on some tee shots (which bending irons a degree strong could make up for) is just wild to me.

You guys are looking at this from the perspective of diehard golfers who have the time invested to know what to do and are fine and accepting of resolving inconveniences put upon you. Just because you have a different limit or no limit at all, doesn't mean other golfers have that same limit or value the limitations or are willing to accept the changes which aren't based on rational beliefs.

As I said earlier, anyone should be able to figure out with the writing on the wall that this is not going to end here at the rollback, just like it didn't end at the groove rule or the shaft change. The reason why these moronic rulings come out that, when looked at a single picture instead of being evaluated on the whole, is that the ruling bodies can leverage anyone who agrees with them with their continued work to do whatever they wanted in the first place which is to save golf.

What if I don't want to bend my irons? Why should I have to go pay someone to fix a problem the ruling body is making? This is the inconvenient stuff that pisses people off.

[GolfSpy_APH]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The game just want fun anymore. Like me they put in tons of work each week working on getting better. We all enjoyed the work and playing. But for them they no longer got joy from the game. My friends in Miami all quit the game. They are now playing pickleball and having a blast. It has nothing to do with less time to play and suck. It’s just more fun for them.

I don’t have the time to put in to practice or play and I’m not going to try and spend the time to adjust and work on everything all over again. Not to mention I get more joy out of giving back to things I love so my side business takes priority as will my additional 1-2 businesses that I’m working on. As much as I love golf and equipment it’s not that important in the grand scheme of things. 

Things that have had my interest were there when I was playing a lot. I am just prioritizing them more and will continue to do so. Having to make adjustments because the ruling bodies are set on taking the game backwards doesn’t appeal to me. 

Until there’s actual data I doubt these 5 yard statements are true. Whether it wa s a Freudian slip or whatever Mike Whan slipped up in an interview and called them proposals.

Their own testing with NP-500 ball doesn’t match their statements 

Yes fair point we are being 5 yards but not proven. I guess take it all with a grain of salt. 

Something I keep coming back to is I'm sure they don't want to do this and they must see enough of an issue and data to have some reasoning to do it. Sure it could come to pass like grooves and make no difference, but at least it's something which should not have a dramatic impact like changing driver heads? That would be a lot more costly for all.

[GolfSpy_APH]

4 minutes ago, BigBoiGolf said:

You guys are looking at this from the perspective of diehard golfers who have the time invested to know what to do and are fine and accepting of resolving inconveniences put upon you. Just because you have a different limit or no limit at all, doesn't mean other golfers have that same limit or value the limitations or are willing to accept the changes which aren't based on rational beliefs.

As I said earlier, anyone should be able to figure out with the writing on the wall that this is not going to end here at the rollback, just like it didn't end at the groove rule or the shaft change. The reason why these moronic rulings come out that, when looked at a single picture instead of being evaluated on the whole, is that the ruling bodies can leverage anyone who agrees with them with their continued work to do whatever they wanted in the first place which is to save golf.

What if I don't want to bend my irons? Why should I have to go pay someone to fix a problem the ruling body is making? This is the inconvenient stuff that pisses people off.

Then don't adjust the clubs, that's fair. @vandylandmade a great point on weather. I see 20+ yard difference over the course of the season and even time of day plays a part or altitude. 

Sorry I'll stop, but I just don't understand why someone who loves the game for what it is would quit over this. It boggles my mind. 

[BigBoiGolf]

5 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Yes fair point we are being 5 yards but not proven. I guess take it all with a grain of salt. 

Something I keep coming back to is I'm sure they don't want to do this and they must see enough of an issue and data to have some reasoning to do it. Sure it could come to pass like grooves and make no difference, but at least it's something which should not have a dramatic impact like changing driver heads? That would be a lot more costly for all.

I have no idea why they can't just bifurcate the driver heads and get them back to 350cc or whatever it was on the R7 Quad. Hell, you can do what Krank Drivers does and make the faces thicker to decrease their spring-like effect.

OEMs already release crappy drivers that break (Stealth anyone?) and their performance differences, pragmatically, haven't been changing in 10 years. I have done so many engineering videos on this topic on my other socials it's disgusting.

In exchange, the USGA/R&A can lift the COR limit for Non-Tournament Players so we regulars can get a bone, the pros can get their reigned in distance, and we don't have to change the ball at all. TM et al already makes Tour-Only heads, they can keep doing that 0 problem knowing they're already the same small batch.

Edited December 12, 2023 by BigBoiGolf

[GolfSpy_APH]

2 minutes ago, BigBoiGolf said:

I have no idea why they can't just bifurcate the driver heads and get them back to 350cc or whatever it was on the R7 Quad. Hell, you can do what Krank Drivers does and make the faces thicker to decrease their spring-like effect.

OEMs already release crappy drivers that break (Stealth anyone?) and their performance differences, pragmatically, haven't been changing in 10 years. I have done so many engineering videos on this topic on my other socials it's disgusting.

In exchange, the USGA/R&A can lift the COR limit for Non-Tournament Players so we regulars can get a bone, the pros can get their reigned in distance, and we don't have to change the ball at all. TM et al already makes Tour-Only heads, they can keep doing that 0 problem knowing they're already the same small batch.

Because there are too many ppl that "want to play what the tour players use"... Truly I don't think there is any perfect solution or way to look at it because the pitch forks will be out no matter what.

[Javs]

15 minutes ago, vandyland said:

I am getting myself sucked in here so that's on me. But....have you ever played golf at altitude? Or in cold temps? Pretty big difference between how far the ball goes at 85 degrees in Denver Colorado vs 45 degrees in Nashville TN. I didn't feel like I had to go and buy two different sets of golf clubs to play those two changes. And I would say the carry distance difference there, with a driver, was probably 30 yds which is much less than they are currently proposing. 

     You bring up great points about environment conditions and the effects on distance. When we moved from San Diego, California to Central Texas I gained 15 to 20 yards off the driver. I gained about 7 to 12 yards on my irons. We have all discussed the effects of temperature on the flight and distance of the ball as well. Personally the greatest distance loss I see is when the temperature is in the 50’s and below. That 5-something number seems to be the threshold for the greatest distance loss and higher scores.
    On another note, earlier this year I had my old driver head come loose during a round. I couldn’t fix it and obviously didn’t have another driver in the bag. So, I had to use my 3 wood and hybrids off the tee for 13 holes. I had to play from 40 to 60 yards shorter than normal. (Obviously this is not a full example as the distance loss was not in effect for the other clubs). However, when just taking 40 to 60 yards off the tee shot it made a difference. I wasn’t able to bomb it over doglegs or hit it far enough to catch downslopes. The result, longer shots to the greens and more missed greens. Additionally, proximity to the hole was greater. Lastly, it was almost impossible to hit par 5’s in 2. If this distance loss was across the entire bag then I estimate I would shoot 5 to 6 shots higher a round initially. Just my observation. 

[ZMendle10]

This might be an interesting take but since the rollback is only going to take 15yrds from the pros and thats only like a club for them why not make the hole itself smaller. One club difference to them isn't that big a deal but if the hole diameter shortened by a half in or so we would most likely see a lot more missed putts and thus higher scores. Everything else can stay the same but if that 70% make percentage from 6ft becomes 50% scores would be going up and the game would get harder without changing much of anything else.