cnosil Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 24 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said: For those of you who tee it high, do you ground the driver as part of your set-up routine? Keep in mind the lab test was conducted with robots and they have no pre-shot routine... unless Tony programmed one in . I've been experimenting with not grounding my driver and thus far it just feels odd and the results inconsistent. If you are talking about this lab test, it was not done with robots. Trust me, I am not a robot tony@CIC, GolfSpy BOS, fixyurdivot and 3 others 2 4 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixyurdivot Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 29 minutes ago, cnosil said: If you are talking about this lab test, it was not done with robots. Trust me, I am not a robot Oh fudge. I saw the video in the title page and presumed it was with robot testing. Thanks for clarifying. tony@CIC, cnosil and sirchunksalot 3 Quote G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w ZX5 Irons 4-AW Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW (removed from double secret probation ) ER5v Putter (Official Review) AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Official Review) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy BOS Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 If you are talking about this lab test, it was not done with robots. Trust me, I am not a robot But how do WE know you’re not a robot? Has anyone ever actually met you? Would you know that you are a robot? Or would that go against your programming? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk cnosil, fixyurdivot, MattF and 2 others 5 Quote Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200 ER2B | Pro V1x | NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | CaddyLite EZ v8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixyurdivot Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 The evidence comes in right at the end of the loop video clip. The swing looked so good I just assumed it wasn't you . GolfSpy BOS, sirchunksalot, tony@CIC and 1 other 3 1 Quote G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w ZX5 Irons 4-AW Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW (removed from double secret probation ) ER5v Putter (Official Review) AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Official Review) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMookie Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 No doubt that teeing the ball higher and hitting with an upward angle of attack is the answer for more distance. For me, as has been mentioned in the thread, it’s important to get the tee height consistent, and to know what height allows you the upward angle of attack while being able to make center-face contact. revkev, sirchunksalot, tony@CIC and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nakayama Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 The tee height test was interesting? Do you know what the average tee height is on the PGA Tour? The Riviera Country Club seems to be getting the best of some of the best. Hopefully you submit your findings to the USGA,R&A & PGA. I have a question. There are standards that clubs & ball must meet to be approved. If these standards remain the same then how is more distance achieved? Physicality has something to do with it as Bryson have proven. Other than that if the clubs & balls all meet the requirements what do the Golfing Governing Bodies contribute to the gain in distance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny B Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 The tee height test data is quite accurate for my slow swing. I get the most distance with the ball teed up high, but as the test data shows, I pay a price in accuracy. My AoA is 4-5º. If I tee the ball low, which I do for certain shots, I generally miss low on the face with a big loss of distance, unless I make more of an "iron swing". tony@CIC and fixyurdivot 2 Quote “We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRW Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 The win for fairways hit with the taller tee seems to go against common perception/instruction. Lower tee height should lower launch, decrease distance, and increase spin but all three of those should contribute to more accuracy/fairways hit. tony@CIC and fixyurdivot 2 Quote Ogio Woode 8 Hybrid Stand Bag PXG 0811 X Gen4 @ 6* - Fujikura Motore X F3 7X PXG 0211 @ 13.5* - Fujikura Motore X F1 8X PXG 0311 XP Gen3 3i-PW - PX LZ 6.5 PXG 0311 Forged 54/60 - PX LZ 6.5 Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonW Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, cnosil said: Couple of comments: I’d suggest reading up on strokes gained. The 10 to 20 yards you discuss does provide an advantage and it isn’t about hitting fairways. Also The faster you swing they farther the ball goes and the farther it goes offline. A 1* open clubface will be farther offline at 300 yards than it is at 200 yards; that is how angles work. While the strategy may not work every hole the percentages play out over time. I agree with all you are saying. And the angle theory is basic physics. And I have read up on the SG:OTT stats, Bryson 1.4, Rory 1.2..everyone else less than 1 per round... It hasn't done those 2 much good as of late. Not denigrating the players, just talking pure stats here...I play Bryson's driver and I like Rory. (Just to put that in perspective) However, just the one question, would you rather be on the short stuff 120 yards out or in the rough (with the possibility of obstacles) 90 yards out? I'm quoting the PGA stats page now "The largest difference between the rough and the fairway occurs between 120 and 190 yards where scoring from the rough is on average about 0.25 strokes higher than those from the fairway." The results will tell you that People are winning tournaments playing exactly that, the percentages, case in point Berger last week, Cantlay, Reed, Kim, Na, English, Hovland, Streb, Ortiz, Gay, Kokrak, Laird, Garcia and Swafford, none of them exceptionally long hitters...... that's since Bryson won the US Open...... Sorry forgot that Koepka won as well, but he's dropped some length since his return from injury. So, I don't really want to get into some argument, but do you really think whether the USGA or PGA should be doing anything to limit distance? My opinion was that they shouldn't, and I repeat it's just MY opinion.....doesn't mean that I am right or wrong. Cheers, happy golfing. Edited February 20, 2021 by RonW Just adding a quote fixyurdivot and tony@CIC 2 Quote SIM2 Max-D Driver @ 10.5° 3-wood F-Max @ 16° 5-wood F9 @ 19° 6-hybrid T-Rail @ 23° F-Max Airspeed 7 - PW Irons RTX Zipcore Wedges 48°, 52° & 58° White Hot OG #1 Putter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowSwingSpeed Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Forget the tee height - the best way to hit it longer is use a buddy's driver. Every time I hit someone else's club, I hit it 20 yards further. fixyurdivot, GaDawg, Siamese Moose and 5 others 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattF Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 10 hours ago, fixyurdivot said: For those of you who tee it high, do you ground the driver as part of your set-up routine? Keep in mind the lab test was conducted with robots and they have no pre-shot routine... unless Tony programmed one in . I've been experimenting with not grounding my driver and thus far it just feels odd and the results inconsistent. I ground. I tried the hover and it just felt weird. tony@CIC, GaDawg and fixyurdivot 3 Quote In the bag: Driver: Darkspeed X 9° UST Mamiya LIN-Q M40X Blue 7F4 Fairway: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5 Irons: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Wedges: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Putter Sycamore 005 Wide Blade Bag: Fairway 14 stand bag Balls: Chrome Tour Cart: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8 God Bless America, God save the King, God defend New Zealand and thank Christ for Australia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ole gray Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 I use the Martini tees with the stopper for my driver. Love em and no doubt it has improved my consistency. MattF, tony@CIC and fixyurdivot 3 Quote Ping G430 Max Driver 10.5 Degree Titleist TSR1 4, 5, & 6 Hybrids Titleist T350 Irons 7 - W48 Cleveland CBX ZipCore 52 56 & 60 Degree Wedges LAB Mezz Max Broomstick Putter / TPT Shaft (Platinum @ 45/78) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 10 hours ago, B.Boston said: But how do WE know you’re not a robot? Has anyone ever actually met you? Would you know that you are a robot? Or would that go against your programming? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I guess I could be a robot and not know that I am a robot. If you have seen my swing results, you would think I was a poorly programmed golf robot. 10 hours ago, fixyurdivot said: The evidence comes in right at the end of the loop video clip. The swing looked so good I just assumed it wasn't you . Not my foot, that is Phillips. I was just to the left of the frame hitting putts for mallet testing. GolfSpy BOS, Siamese Moose, fixyurdivot and 2 others 1 4 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 8 hours ago, RonW said: I agree with all you are saying. And the angle theory is basic physics. And I have read up on the SG:OTT stats, Bryson 1.4, Rory 1.2..everyone else less than 1 per round... It hasn't done those 2 much good as of late. Not denigrating the players, just talking pure stats here...I play Bryson's driver and I like Rory. (Just to put that in perspective) However, just the one question, would you rather be on the short stuff 120 yards out or in the rough (with the possibility of obstacles) 90 yards out? I'm quoting the PGA stats page now "The largest difference between the rough and the fairway occurs between 120 and 190 yards where scoring from the rough is on average about 0.25 strokes higher than those from the fairway." The results will tell you that People are winning tournaments playing exactly that, the percentages, case in point Berger last week, Cantlay, Reed, Kim, Na, English, Hovland, Streb, Ortiz, Gay, Kokrak, Laird, Garcia and Swafford, none of them exceptionally long hitters...... that's since Bryson won the US Open...... Sorry forgot that Koepka won as well, but he's dropped some length since his return from injury. So, I don't really want to get into some argument, but do you really think whether the USGA or PGA should be doing anything to limit distance? My opinion was that they shouldn't, and I repeat it's just MY opinion.....doesn't mean that I am right or wrong. Cheers, happy golfing. No, Rory and Bryson haven't been playing well as of late, but over a period of time, their overall performance should be better. The obstacles would just be the bad luck of where your shot ended up. I don't have the numbers for each distance, but I would guess that strokes gained from 90 in the rough would be better than 120 in the fairway. I don't consider this an argument, just a discussion on perspectives. I don't think they should be doing anything to control distance; I don't think there is a problem. RonW, MattF, tony@CIC and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ell Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 18 hours ago, Ell said: Forget all this talk about tee heights. If the USGA and the R&A want to limit the distance a ball goes, reduce the overall weight from 1.62 ounces to 1.3 ounces. For a better explanation of this get the book "Search for the Perfect Swing" by Alastair Cochran and John Stobbs. There's a complete discussion of this in Chapter 26 entitled "What Flight of What Ball", specifically the paragraphs on pages 170 and 171. The book was last published in 1996. So the discussion of the ball going to far is 25 years old. tony@CIC 1 Quote Driver: Tommy Armour Atomic, 10.5, Senior Shaft 3 Wood: Cleveland FL, senior graphite shaft. Adams Idea A12 OS, 3,4,5,6 hybrids, 7 - sand wedge. Senior flex graphite shafts Ping Answer putter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenGolfer Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 On 2/19/2021 at 11:39 AM, GolfSpy_THV said: Let's discuss the MGS latest test about Tee Heights! Article here: https://mygolfspy.com/tee-height-test/ What are your thoughts? Does a Tee Height make a difference in your distance or dispersion on the course? It does for me. If I tee it high, like theyve been telling us to do for the past 20 years, I tend to hit a popup from time to time because if I am off a bit or dont keep my head behind the ball, I will hit down on it. If I just tee it a bit lower, where the ball is in the middle of the clubface, even if Im off a bit, its still an acceptable drive. If I lose a little distance, Im OK with it because 10% less distance on every tee shot is better than a 50% loss on occasion and a ding in the crown of my driver. MattF 1 Quote "I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag? Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02 Ball: Maxfli Tour X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFEagle Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 USGA issues/perspective aside, this was a really interesting read. I end to have a high launch angle—consistent across years of fittings—and consequently have generally teed the ball low. Going to be doing some range testing as soon as the snow clears up here in the Notheast! MattF 1 Quote Ping G425 irons blue dot Power Spec Ping G400 Max Driver, Elements Chrome S Shaft Ping G30 3 Wood Guerin Rife TwoBar Hybrid Tour Mallet Ping Glide 3.0 wedges Snell MTB-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biil K Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 I’m probably not consistent. Normally grab tee between index and middle fingers and rest ball on the tee , then put it in the ground so tee is secure. Not deep. Quote Bill (1, 3, 7, 24hy; 6-9, 54, 58) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason24 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Good info! I can’t say my technical focus has been on tee height, more on direction than distance personally. However, I will pay attention now. As far as “the distance debate”, I am still most intrigued by focusing on some course adjustments. I believe MGS said it on the podcast initially after the report came out, but fairways today on tour run about as fast as greens did 20+ years ago. For the most part, I don’t think carry distance gets too bananas, it’s when you add the roll out on top. What happens if they cut the fairways 1/8”, 1/4”, or 1/2” longer? Quote Driver: Titleist TSr4 8º, Graphite Design Tour AD 6x 3W: Titleist TSi2 13.5º, Project X 8x 2i: Taylormade P790, HZRDOUS 6.0 4i-6i: Mizuno Pro 225, KBS Tour C-Taper 130x 7i-PW: Mizuno Pro 221, KBS Tour C-Taper 130x 50º; 54º; 60º: Mizuno T22 Putter: Evnroll Ev 5.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP043 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 It seems completely logical that a higher tee will generally produce strikes closer to the sweet spot of modern drivers, hence longer drives. I'm wondering a little bit about subconscious adjustments that golfers might make based on the tee height. It seems to me that the lower tee height would encourage the player to make a swing with a "flatter" angle of attack, while a higher tee would allow for a more upward AoA. While I understand that AoA is primarily a function of an individual swing and ball position, I'd anticipate that a player might still make some subconscious adjustments. And as science has proven, that upward AoA is likely to produce longer shots if all other factors are the same. MattF and Micah T 2 Quote Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah T Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 I can’t hit a fairway regardless of how high the tee is; but teeing it high produces longer, straighter drives for me. It also helped me go from an avg AOA of -1.8 to +3.0: this change cannot be attributed to tee height only but it does play a significant role in getting me to swing “up” on the ball.Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy DaveP043, Kenny B and MattF 3 Quote Driver - Cobra LtDxLS 3 Wood - Ping g410 LST 2iron - Titleist U505 Irons - Ping i59 Wedges - Vokey Sm9 Putter - Mizuno Mcraft IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 All of this has me wondering what the average tee height off the ground is. Csnoil what did the 1 1/2 tee height look like to you? To me that sounds so low - I use 3 1/2 tees and tee them at the first line - I always thought that would be around 3"'s above the turf. MattF 1 Quote Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, revkev said: All of this has me wondering what the average tee height off the ground is. Csnoil what did the 1 1/2 tee height look like to you? To me that sounds so low - I use 3 1/2 tees and tee them at the first line - I always thought that would be around 3"'s above the turf. the 1 1/2 had about half the ball over the crown of the club. It was still a little to high for my liking. The 1/2 was a bit too low. Based on those measurements I probably play mine a little over an inch. MattF and revkev 2 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 the 1 1/2 had about half the ball over the crown of the club. It was still a little to high for my liking. The 1/2 was a bit too low. Based on those measurements I probably play mine a little over an inch. Do you use 2 3/4 normally? I’m thinking we probably don’t tee the ball up as high as we think we do and also that it’s possible to tee it up too high. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Quote Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, revkev said: Do you use 2 3/4 normally? I’m thinking we probably don’t tee the ball up as high as we think we do and also that it’s possible to tee it up too high. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Yes, I use 2 3/4" tees. I use my thumb to measure the balls height; I went out to see and I tee the ball up 1 1/4. MattF and revkev 2 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 I'm going to try and check my normal height today - if I ever get out of this hospital - it's Penny's IV treatment day and they were an hour late starting her treatment - should still leave me plenty of time though. MattF 1 Quote Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtopherb Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Like some others, when I tee up my driver I use the face height to determine ball position/tee height. No more than half the ball over the face. When I've tried to tee higher to promote a more positive AoA, I've wrecked the top of more than a few drivers cnosil, revkev and MattF 3 Quote In my carry bag: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex Launcher 5h Launcher CBX 6i-PW CBX 54* & 58* Huntington Beach #10 e12 Contact CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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