Forward Tee Challenge

[DonnieGolfs]

Have any of you ever tried playing the forward tees to see what kind of score you can shoot? 

I'm a mid to high handicap player and have heard of people playing forward tees to practice different clubs in their bag, have some shorter shots into the green to get an idea on how those clubs perform into the green. 

I'm curious to see if anyone else has tried this out and if it helped their game or not.

[RickyBobby_PR]

I have not done it for this reason but have played shorter tees because the group played from there. Scoring doesn’t always improve just by being shorter.

I have a friend with a sub 5 handicap and close to 300 carry off the tee choose to play from the front tees til he shot par and then moved back and did the same.

It took him 5 or 6 rounds to do it from the forward tees and it was close to 20 rounds from the tee box behind those. 

[vandyland]

@DonnieGolfs I have and do. I probably do it 3-4 times a year (I play 30-40 times a year so roughly 10% of the time). I also play from the tees just behind there (the "senior" tees) 4-5 times as well. So I would say almost a 1/3 of my rounds at my regular course are from the up tees vs the normal men's tees (I am 39 years old and hit my driver about 260-270 yds on average for context). So I am not a bomber but also have sufficient distance to play from farther back. Here are my thoughts on it, not facts....just opinions:

1. For me it is generally more fun.
2. You have more options off the tee. You generally don't HAVE to hit driver on any hole to reach it in regulation. 
3. Par 5s are finally reachable in two almost all the time. JUST LIKE THE PGA TOUR.
4. You can recover from a bad drive or bad hole more quickly
5. You can expose weaknesses in 30-70 yd pitches because all the sudden that is going to be your bread and butter on most holes. 
6. You get the pressure of trying to maintain a good round or capitalize on a good hole (the par 5s especially) and overall gives you more reps at being at or under par

Like @RickyBobby_PR noted above, I will often play my first round of the year from the most forward tee and if I don't shoot sub 75 I can't move back. A few things to consider:

What type of course do you typically play? Is it tight and strategic or is it fairly wide open or a mix? Is there a lot of OB or Hazards? Are the greens tricky? Are there a lot of doglegs that will block you out of the tee? Are you going to still have fun if you don't hit your driver as much? None of these should preclude you from this experiment but they might have an impact on how you score at the forward tees vs farther back and/or your overall enjoyment. 

Final Note - When I go on vacation and play a new course, unless I know it is really wide open and not penal, I always play it from well short (ideally 5,700 yds - 5,500 yds) of where I normally play (6,000 - 6,200 yds). 

[DonnieGolfs]

5 minutes ago, vandyland said:

@DonnieGolfs I have and do. I probably do it 3-4 times a year (I play 30-40 times a year so roughly 10% of the time). I also play from the tees just behind there (the "senior" tees) 4-5 times as well. So I would say almost a 1/3 of my rounds at my regular course are from the up tees vs the normal men's tees (I am 39 years old and hit my driver about 260-270 yds on average for context). So I am not a bomber but also have sufficient distance to play from farther back. Here are my thoughts on it, not facts....just opinions:

1. For me it is generally more fun.
2. You have more options off the tee. You generally don't HAVE to hit driver on any hole to reach it in regulation. 
3. Par 5s are finally reachable in two almost all the time. JUST LIKE THE PGA TOUR.
4. You can recover from a bad drive or bad hole more quickly
5. You can expose weaknesses in 30-70 yd pitches because all the sudden that is going to be your bread and butter on most holes. 
6. You get the pressure of trying to maintain a good round or capitalize on a good hole (the par 5s especially) and overall gives you more reps at being at or under par

Like @RickyBobby_PR noted above, I will often play my first round of the year from the most forward tee and if I don't shoot sub 75 I can't move back. A few things to consider:

What type of course do you typically play? Is it tight and strategic or is it fairly wide open or a mix? Is there a lot of OB or Hazards? Are the greens tricky? Are there a lot of doglegs that will block you out of the tee? Are you going to still have fun if you don't hit your driver as much? None of these should preclude you from this experiment but they might have an impact on how you score at the forward tees vs farther back and/or your overall enjoyment. 

Final Note - When I go on vacation and play a new course, unless I know it is really wide open and not penal, I always play it from well short (ideally 5,700 yds - 5,500 yds) of where I normally play (6,000 - 6,200 yds). 

Great insight thank you.

Course I was thinking about playing is tight, fairway at its widest on the course is about 40 yards with water/ OB on either side. A lot of holes require you to shape a driver or club down off the tee. 

I want to give it a shot not for scoring necessarily but more experience. Have more short irons/wedges into greens for GIR. Standing over more birdie putts to get that feeling vice chipping from just off the green, having shorter putts for bogey. Get an idea of how strong or weak other parts of my game is.

[RickyBobby_PR]

27 minutes ago, DonnieGolfs said:

Great insight thank you.

Course I was thinking about playing is tight, fairway at its widest on the course is about 40 yards with water/ OB on either side. A lot of holes require you to shape a driver or club down off the tee. 

I want to give it a shot not for scoring necessarily but more experience. Have more short irons/wedges into greens for GIR. Standing over more birdie putts to get that feeling vice chipping from just off the green, having shorter putts for bogey. Get an idea of how strong or weak other parts of my game is.

Imo it’s a great way to get better. You have to learn course management, shot selection and it gets people comfortable with learning how to score. 

[Kenny B]

It's a great way to get a different look at a course, and while you can clear some obstacles there are others that are now in play.  It's nice to hit shorter clubs, but as @RickyBobby_PR said, don't expect to shoot a great score the first time out.  A few years ago when I was playing Blue tees, my wife and I played with another couple and the ladies challenged us to play with them from the Forward tees.  It was hard, and the other guy cussed the whole round and never did it again.  FYI, the other lady would occasionally play from the Blues and normally beat her husband.

When I moved up to the senior White tees, I shot about the same scores for many rounds, but eventually got used to them and was able to finally shoot my age.  I could move back to the Blue tees, but I have no reason for doing so and enjoy hitting more irons than woods/hybrids.

[Kenny B]

Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

Imo it’s a great way to get better. You have to learn course management, shot selection and it gets people comfortable with learning how to score. 

Our teaching pro specializes in junior golf and has several very good AJGA players.  I've played with several of them, and they are good.  One girl I watched grow up is now on the UW golf team as a freshman.  When he has them play our course, he always starts them out on the Forward tees and they can only move back to the next tee when they shoot par.

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

I like the idea. For my Saturday Tournament I was up two tees from where i normally play (I pick tees based on driving distance). This could be good practice to learn how to score and gain confidence. I may not try this doing the most forward but I could see myself playing up 1 or 2 sets of tees.

[RickyBobby_PR]

38 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Our teaching pro specializes in junior golf and has several very good AJGA players.  I've played with several of them, and they are good.  One girl I watched grow up is now on the UW golf team as a freshman.  When he has them play our course, he always starts them out on the Forward tees and they can only move back to the next tee when they shoot par.

Another thing that helps improvement is playing with good golfers. Being able to watch them navigate around the course, the shots they play, what clubs they play for those shots and if they are friends being able to ask them questions goes a long way

[Tom the Golf Nut]

Five years ago, I had over 1000 rounds in at my home course from the white (normal men's) tees. Frankly it was getting old and so was I. Then I had to have several operations which prevented me from playing for a few months and then having to take it easy for a while. I moved up to the senior tees because of distance loss and not wanting to tear anything. I found that I was playing a new course. Different angles, different trouble spots but I enjoyed it. Since then, I haven't moved back for the most part. Now after my move to NC I'm kind of playing a hybrid. Some holes from the white and some from the gold. Some holes are too short due to dog legs to use a driver so then I move to the white to be able to hit the driver. Par 5's I play from the golds to be able to get on in two once in a while. Par 3's I mix it up. Partially because my old course had all 4 par 3's at 164 to 168 yards. I threw in a long one and a short one to mix it up.  

 

[Tx-Ping]

It all depends on who I am playing with. I have some who like playing from the forward tee box, and I have 1 who just refuses for what ever reason. At Tour 18 in Houston, the tee boxes are set for handicap levels. High, play front, mid middle, and low play back tees. It is said they do that to make it more enjoyable for the players, and I agree. It is how much fun you are having and the score that matters. If you score a 93 and had fun from the front, that's great. If you are struggling to get a 93 from the middle and aren't having as much fun then why are you playing those.

Anyway, play what makes you happy, and I like playing both.

[Hook DeLoft]

One time I was in a group 3rd in line to tee off.  A guy in the first group hit a very long tee shot and someone in the next group said, "I would birdie every hole if I hit it that far."  Of course, he was wrong.  I have found it possible to make triple bogey from any tee box.  I played with a senior league last year in which everyone hit from the front tees (ladies or super senior tees).  In one outing I shot a 68 on what was already a shortish course.  The best I ever shot from the regular tees before becoming a senior was 75 and that was an anomaly.  If you are playing a shorter than normal course and playing well, you will shoot a lower score than normal.  If you are playing poorly, you will discover that bad wedge shots can be as disastrous as bad 7 iron shots and bad putting is bad putting.  I don't know if it will improve your game to move up, but I have found that playing different tees is a lot of fun and can make your regular course seem like a course you haven't played before.

[DiscipleofPenick]

My former home course only had 3 sets of tees so I would do this occassionally. Most of the time I did this, I wouldn't pull anything longer than a 5i so that way I would kind of have the same approach club on most holes. Though one time I did it and hit drivers. There are few par 4s that play to par 3 lengths (180-220 yards) so I was able to get a lot of birdies and shot under par. It was fun, but it wasn't even close to a challenge. I don't know if I would do it if I was paying $50 or $60 to play a course on a weekend though. My rule is, I'll play any et of tees that don't lower my handicap for the day. Like tomorrow I'm playing and the tips are little short of 6400 and my hcp goes up to a 6. I can play the next set up at around 6100 and stay at a 4, but I won't go up a set from there.

I've heard there's a method to the madness of playing the shortest tees and only move back once you break par. But I don't know enough to explain the psychology behind that.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

31 minutes ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

I've heard there's a method to the madness of playing the shortest tees and only move back once you break par. But I don't know enough to explain the psychology behind that.

I heard that too. It doesn't make sense to me. If 25% of the average golfers never break 100 and the average is 90 there is no way by moving up they are going to save 18 to 28 strokes. They will be playing the senior tee forever. It sure will be crowded up there! 

[RollingGreens]

I have done it from time to time. Working on perfecting more short game shots and emphasizing proximity to the pin for birdie opportunities. I like varying the difficulty to see how my game translates when I “should” be able to score better 

[Kenny B]

35 minutes ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

I've heard there's a method to the madness of playing the shortest tees and only move back once you break par. But I don't know enough to explain the psychology behind that.

For the kids working with our junior golf pro, the youngest ones need to start at the forward tees anyway.  Older ones starting the program still start there as it builds their course management and short game to achieve the confidence that they can reach the next level.  If the kids never break par, then I suppose the pro will suggest that the AJGA is not in their future.  As they mature, develop their swing and gain speed, the short game skills they have already developed will serve them well.  

As for seasoned golfers, we have tended to spend most of out time working on developing our swing and less time on short game skill.  If we spent as much time chipping, pitching and putting from various lies as we do on the range, our scores would improve.  {The "we" I'm using is the general golfing population... I'm sure that the "MGS we" spend a lot more time than the general golfing population.  }

[GolfSpy_KFT]

This might be something I try the next time my wife and I go out to play. We have four sets of tees at my club (Blue, White, Gold, Red) and the golds really are not much shorter than the whites I usually play. My wife plays from the reds so it might be fun to practice some of those shots and have some different approaches. I can honestly say I've never even thought to try it but I'm going to have to now!

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

For the kids working with our junior golf pro, the youngest ones need to start at the forward tees anyway.  Older ones starting the program still start there as it builds their course management and short game to achieve the confidence that they can reach the next level.  If the kids never break par, then I suppose the pro will suggest that the AJGA is not in their future.  As they mature, develop their swing and gain speed, the short game skills they have already developed will serve them well.  

As for seasoned golfers, we have tended to spend most of out time working on developing our swing and less time on short game skill.  If we spent as much time chipping, pitching and putting from various lies as we do on the range, our scores would improve.  {The "we" I'm using is the general golfing population... I'm sure that the "MGS we" spend a lot more time than the general golfing population.  }

Exactly.

[GolfSpy_KFT]

24 minutes ago, Jnoble89 said:

This might be something I try the next time my wife and I go out to play. We have four sets of tees at my club (Blue, White, Gold, Red) and the golds really are not much shorter than the whites I usually play. My wife plays from the reds so it might be fun to practice some of those shots and have some different approaches. I can honestly say I've never even thought to try it but I'm going to have to now!

I just looked at our scorecard online and the golds are actually about 400 yards shorter than the whites, and reds are nearly 1000 yards shorter than the whites. About half of the gold tees play the same/similar distance to the whites, but not every hole. I may end up playing the reds with my wife and the golds one time just for the heck of it.

[tdroma98]

Good question @DonnieGolfs!  Yes I would intentionally play it forward either to play with golf buddies with higher handicaps or if I was getting in shape for a qualifier, in order to practice iron shots, whether it was hitting more irons off the tee  to intentionally hit shorter wedge shots (30 to 60 yds) for approaches. 

After purchasing a 21 degree rescue (with adjustable settings), I played several rounds from forward tees in order to get used to the club, never hitting a driver or 3 wood off the tee.  Getting comfortable with distances and figure out a comfortable club setting - which I ended up setting the 21 degree rescue to 22 degrees neutral.   

I really enjoy golf and the camaraderie, so I don't care what tees we play. Some of my good friends enjoy golf and I enjoy playing golf with them, they have 15 or higher handicaps, I have no aversion to playing up where they feel comfortable and encourage them to move up so they enjoy the round as well (5,600 to 6,100 yds).  Sundays, I will play with buddies and we'll play yardages anywhere from 6,500 to 7,100 yds. When they move back to the 7,000+ yardage, I'll play the old man card. It doesn't work LOL! 

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

3 hours ago, DonnieGolfs said:

Have any of you ever tried playing the forward tees to see what kind of score you can shoot? 

I'm a mid to high handicap player and have heard of people playing forward tees to practice different clubs in their bag, have some shorter shots into the green to get an idea on how those clubs perform into the green. 

I'm curious to see if anyone else has tried this out and if it helped their game or not.

We did this as an annual fun day in college - bunch of 0-5 handicaps playing tips almost every day, then one day having a competition from the forward set. A few guys went low, but others (including me) didn't see a big difference (definitely a few strokes, but not as big as some would think).

A couple reasons it didn't change much for me: scoring difference is largely short game, so the biggest improvement went to wedge guys (and that was not me) -- my likelihood of making birdie vs. par with a full 9i vs. a half wedge wasn't significantly different (there was a difference, but it wouldn't translate to 3+ strokes per round); landing zones change significantly with that much difference, sometimes forcing you to lay back to your normal zone anyway (e.g. on one hole, my driver landing zone changed to the narrowing fairway up by the green, and missing there is very bad on that hole); temptation comes into play and causes unforced errors, leading to the same score (or worse) on certain holes. Par 5s do make a big difference; par 3s were easier, but still similar scores. 

It also depends on the course and the specific tee difference - even though these are all real things I've experienced, it's really all hypothetical. Like if you're usually playing at a challenging length for your game, moving up one set to a more comfortable length could make a bigger difference than moving all the way up -- like the landing zones comment above, sometimes the same bad drive that's dead from your normal tees will be Position A from one set up (but if you go all the way up, maybe you'd no longer hit driver).

 

 

 

[Caddie1966]

6 hours ago, DonnieGolfs said:

Have any of you ever tried playing the forward tees to see what kind of score you can shoot? 

I'm a mid to high handicap player and have heard of people playing forward tees to practice different clubs in their bag, have some shorter shots into the green to get an idea on how those clubs perform into the green. 

I'm curious to see if anyone else has tried this out and if it helped their game or not.

Our club does a tournament every year in January called the Tough Tee Challenge.  We start from the forward tees and play with correspondingly adjusted handicaps.  If you beat your adjusted handicap for the round, you move back one tee box.  If you don’t, you keep playing from the forward tees.  After you move back, you have to be below to move again.  If you score + 6 over your adjusted handicap from anywhere other than the forward tees, you move back one tee box.  There are 5 tee boxes. It takes place over the first 6 weekends of the year.   It’s a tough tournament in chilly weather. Winner is the player who progresses through the 5 the fastest.  Best net wins if multiple players make it through the 5 tee boxes.

The other thing we do is called play 36.  Beginners start from 25 yards out from the pin on the front and have to score 36 or less for 9 to progress to the next 25 yard level.  The levels extend all the way to 150.  I did this with my grandson when he was 9 and it helped him immensely.

 

[JerryB]

11 hours ago, DonnieGolfs said:

Have any of you ever tried playing the forward tees to see what kind of score you can shoot? 

I'm a mid to high handicap player and have heard of people playing forward tees to practice different clubs in their bag, have some shorter shots into the green to get an idea on how those clubs perform into the green. 

I'm curious to see if anyone else has tried this out and if it helped their game or not.

I did it once last year just to mix things up a bit.  Definitely gave me some different looks.  If I recall, my score didn't change much if at all.  I would likely do it again at some point.  I've also never played from the back tees and would like to try that too just to say I did it.  I've always maintained that, for pace purposes, I would happily play from any tee box if everyone else was playing it.   Its just never come up yet.

[vandyland]

19 hours ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

I've heard there's a method to the madness of playing the shortest tees and only move back once you break par. But I don't know enough to explain the psychology behind that.

I did a slightly different version of that which was still "earning your way back." Basically I had to shoot sub 75 from the most forward tees to move back to the next tee. Then sub 75 from the next tee and so on. Basically, it just got me back to the tees I normally selected anyway but it was a good exercise. I would set a target that is somewhat attainable (doesn't have to be par). As a 5 HDCP (at the time) I figured 75 was attainable from the forward tees for certain and the next tees after that. You could also use the relative course handicaps as a guide EXCEPT that they don't typically rate the most forward tees for men.

@Tom the Golf Nut - I agree some people would never move back if par was the goal but let's take a guy who is a 20 HDCP from 6,500 yds and normally shoots 100. If we moved him up to 4,900 yds at the forward tees, I would challenge him to break 90 from there. That is actually attainable but surprisingly difficult if someone has a bad wedge/short game like many 20 hdcps do. But if someone is only playing 3-4 times a year, it is going to be difficult to get them to commit to something like this. But I do think this is an interesting way for people to improve their game. The same as if you are relatively untrained, you don't just throw 225 on the bench and start trying to lift it. 

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

19 hours ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

I've heard there's a method to the madness of playing the shortest tees and only move back once you break par. But I don't know enough to explain the psychology behind that.

 

19 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

I heard that too. It doesn't make sense to me. If 25% of the average golfers never break 100 and the average is 90 there is no way by moving up they are going to save 18 to 28 strokes. They will be playing the senior tee forever. It sure will be crowded up there! 

Something like that would definitely make people improve their games overall (as others have noted about juniors), but I've always viewed that statement is more trying to prove a point rather than being a realistic tee selection strategy -- people that refuse to move up for vanity reasons (e.g. "men play the men's tees, those are the <women's / senior> tees so I won't do it") are probably a better fit for tees further forward, and moving them forward would also speed up play (basically, the point of the Tee It Forward initiative). Plus, IMO, score is not the only factor -- someone that hits it long and consistent but just can't get the ball in the hole shouldn't be relegated to the forward tees. People should play the tees that fit both their length and handicap (at bigger / modern courses, there are often 2 or more sets that fit length, then skill can be the deciding factor). There are some interesting guidelines around Tee It Forward that can help, like 28x Driver distance or 36x 5i distance -- for the latter, I've seen reports that the average male 5i distance is ~160-165yds, which doesn't break the 6000yd barrier. Following that guideline at my usual course, that means that average male should play the 5750yd White tees, which are perceived as the "Senior" tees, but they actually choose between the 6250yd Green or 6720yd Blue tees because they're perceived as the "Men's" tees. 

FWIW, I'm definitely guilty of playing too far back from time to time just for the challenge (and do encourage others to challenge themselves like this from time to time), but am always aware of pace of play and make sure my choice doesn't slow things down. When playing with others, especially random pairings, I typically scout the tees first, pick 2-3 sets that I'd be willing to play, and if the group is playing from one of them, I join them; if not, I pick which one I want for the day. 

[vandyland]

55 minutes ago, ChiefMikeOfficer said:

Tee It Forward that can help, like 28x Driver distance or 36x 5i distance

I find that Tee it Forward guidance is still probably too long for most people. Check out some math below if you have time. 

A funny application of tee it forward is....using the PGA Tour distances to see what they SHOULD be playing:

Stock 5 iron for longer guys on the PGA tour is 225 yds --> 225 * 36 = 8,100 yds [by the way, I totally agree that TOUR PROS should be playing 8,000 yd courses...minimum)
As for driving distance, lets say 300 yds --> 315 * 28 = 8,400 yds 

Does anyone want to guess the average length of courses on tour? About 7,200 yds. And that is the BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD. 

Just for fun, here is Rory's calc:

5 iron = 230 * 36 = 8,280 yds
Driver = 325 * 28 = 9,100 yds

[RickyBobby_PR]

18 minutes ago, vandyland said:

I find that Tee it Forward guidance is still probably too long for most people. Check out some math below if you have time. 

A funny application of tee it forward is....using the PGA Tour distances to see what they SHOULD be playing:

Stock 5 iron for longer guys on the PGA tour is 225 yds --> 225 * 36 = 8,100 yds [by the way, I totally agree that TOUR PROS should be playing 8,000 yd courses...minimum)
As for driving distance, lets say 300 yds --> 315 * 28 = 8,400 yds 

Does anyone want to guess the average length of courses on tour? About 7,200 yds. And that is the BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD. 

Just for fun, here is Rory's calc:

5 iron = 230 * 36 = 8,280 yds
Driver = 325 * 28 = 9,100 yds

You are forgetting that pros deloft the club at impact which turns a 5 into a lower lofter club helping the distance it travels

8000 yard courses reduces the number of players that would be competive week in and week out. 

The great thing about the pga tour is there variety of courses week in and week out that gives most pros long and short a chance to win.

If the courses were longer then the green complexes would need to be changed to allow them to receive shots with longer clubs.

Distance just gives more advantage to the longer players.

The memorial is showing that longer courses aren’t needed to challenge golfers and keep scores lower and outside of rory and adam Scott none of the leaderboard is top 25 is driving distance.

 

[vandyland]

@RickyBobby_PR I swear if we ever agree on something I am going to die from shock, haha  (just joking RB, I like debating things with you). I did wish that tour courses were longer and maybe that is a separate discussion. I will say, watching guys hit Driver + 8 iron into a par 5 is absurd. And I see that most weeks on tour for "standard" events. Rocket Mortgage most notably. 

The main thing is I am trying to point out how ridiculous the "Driver * 28" calculation is. Ricky Fowler who is not a longer hitter averages 305 off the tee. 305 * 28 is 8,500 yds. Get out of here with that. For me, I am 265 * 28 = 7,420 yds. NO WAY am I playing from that far back. Absolutely not. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 minutes ago, vandyland said:

I will say, watching guys hit Driver + 8 iron into a par 5 is absurd. And I see that most weeks on tour for "standard" events. Rocket Mortgage most notably. 

It’s not the the norm. The average is a 7i which means some guys hit a shorter iron and some a longer iron. It’s a perception that everyone is hitting short clubs into every green or mid irons into par 5s because it’s what is shown on tv. Just like it’s a perception that pros make every 8-10’ putt because you see so many made on tv.

The game has changed so much with technology and data. The goa is always going to be to hit the ball as far as possible the tee and each golfer has to choose a shot based on their skill set and risk vs reward. Using distance as a way to challenge golfers is weak sauce. Not to mention the greats from yester year tried to get as close as possible as well, they tried to find the best line to have the best shot into a green and didn’t stand on the tee going oops can’t think going that way because that’s not how the designer set the course up 

I find it interesting that you don’t want to see pros hit short clubs into greens while at the same time you ply golf to have wedges into greens on par 4s and reach par 5s in 2
 

 

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

30 minutes ago, vandyland said:

I find that Tee it Forward guidance is still probably too long for most people. Check out some math below if you have time. 

A funny application of tee it forward is....using the PGA Tour distances to see what they SHOULD be playing:

Stock 5 iron for longer guys on the PGA tour is 225 yds --> 225 * 36 = 8,100 yds [by the way, I totally agree that TOUR PROS should be playing 8,000 yd courses...minimum)
As for driving distance, lets say 300 yds --> 315 * 28 = 8,400 yds 

Does anyone want to guess the average length of courses on tour? About 7,200 yds. And that is the BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD. 

Just for fun, here is Rory's calc:

5 iron = 230 * 36 = 8,280 yds
Driver = 325 * 28 = 9,100 yds

Yea, definitely not perfect, but for an average golfer, it's not so bad of a calculation. My own calculations are 8000 and 7500 based on those two measures, and a 7500 yard course for me feels very long (to be fair, it is very long). 

PGA Tour numbers don't tell the whole story either -- Rory is also a huge outlier, and average Tour distance brings it down to 8200 for driver and right around 7200 for 5i measures (so the 5i measure actually works out to average Tour player). There are also some things that might skew the 7200 average -- like all three courses at the AT&T Pro-Am are in the Bottom 10 (even though it's just one event, it may count as 3x). Quick search also says that 7200 was the average in 2017 -- is that number still current?

One thing I read about course design theory (Doak, maybe? I don't remember which book) is that you should plan to have tees so that nearly all players approach the green with the same club. So, for example, let's say a 450yd Par 4: the long hitter should hit a 310yd drive and 140 PW to the green; a shorter hitter should have a tee where they can get it to their PW range (so, if there's  220 drive and 110 PW, there should be a tee at 330). You can't apply that on a hole-by-hole basis, so the broader theme works fairly well.