Playing against someone with same handicap but different tee boxes

[scbelowpar]

I was sure how to title this question.  How do you make a game fair if you and your opponent have the same handicap BUT the handicaps were based on different tees?  Example, you have a 10 handicap from the white tees (typically 6400 yards) and your competitor also has a 10 handicap but his are based on the back tees (7,000 yards).  If we both play from the same tees, he has an advantage as the back tees are way to long for me and the forward tees are way to easy for him.

[Murv]

Well, you may not like this....but, you are going to have to give him strokes. Example: his 7,000 yard course probably has a course rating of about 73. Your 6400 yard course has a course rating of 70. Your handicapped adgusted score is 80 and his is 83. So you have to give him 3.

Now if you are going to play the same tees it works the other way he has to adjust his handicap down to your course rating if you play your tees. And if you both play at 7000 you get adjusted up to about 13.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GolfSpy_APH]

Split tees are likely the answer. 

As you eluded to Handicaps are different for wach individual. Some are great drivers of the golf ball, others have exceptional short games.

Playing one set may slightly advantage one or the other, but playing the shorter tees may not always be a massive benefit.

The course I play (I've said this many times in the forum) I've actually scored better moving back. Although I may have a bit longer in on most holes, the landing areas are wider off the tee and although I can carry most the trouble from playing closer it either takes driver out of my hands which I already do on several holes from back tees and makes the angle into the green a lot more important as the greens are all very well protected. 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Assuming you are referring to your handicap index.

others can correct me if I’m wrong but the course handicap account for that.

You can plug both indexes into a course handicap calculator along with the rating and slope and then get your course handicaps from whatever tee box you guys are playing from and then based on that determine who is giving strokes and how many

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Assuming you are referring to your handicap index.

others can correct me if I’m wrong but the course handicap account for that.

You can plug both indexes into a course handicap calculator along with the rating and slope and then get your course handicaps from whatever tee box you guys are playing from and then based on that determine who is giving strokes and how many

I am assuming the OP is saying the 10 is their handicap index and not course handicap.  if the have the same handicap index, wouldn’t their course handicap be the same since they would be playing from the same tees and the formula is:

Handicap Index x Slope Rating / 113

if they played different tees the course handicaps would be different and strokes would be given; most likely to the player playing the farther back tees since the slope would likely be higher.  
 

14 hours ago, scbelowpar said:

I was sure how to title this question.  How do you make a game fair if you and your opponent have the same handicap BUT the handicaps were based on different tees?  Example, you have a 10 handicap from the white tees (typically 6400 yards) and your competitor also has a 10 handicap but his are based on the back tees (7,000 yards).  If we both play from the same tees, he has an advantage as the back tees are way to long for me and the forward tees are way to easy for him.

See what I said above.  I would suggest you read up on the differences between handicap index (which is what I believe you are referring to when you say 10) and course handicap (which is calculated based on your index and the course and tees you are playing to determine strokes given)

[RickyBobby_PR]

18 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I am assuming the OP is saying the 10 is their handicap index and not course handicap.  if the have the same handicap index, wouldn’t their course handicap be the same since they would be playing from the same tees and the formula is:

Handicap Index x Slope Rating / 113

if they played different tees the course handicaps would be different and strokes would be given; most likely to the player playing the farther back tees since the slope would likely be higher.  

I doubt they both have the exact same index and if one is a low 10 while the other is a high 10 there will be a difference in course handicap playing from the same tees.

Agree that if playing from different tees there would be a difference. 

[cnosil]

26 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I doubt they both have the exact same index and if one is a low 10 while the other is a high 10 there will be a difference in course handicap playing from the same tees.

Agree that if playing from different tees there would be a difference. 

True,  when discussing handicaps, we typically round to a hole number instead of the decimal point,  but lots of people have the same handicap.   

[hckymeyer]

I use the USGA GHIN app and there is a handy dandy course handicap calculator built right in to the app.  You just pick the course, add your players after looking up their index and then you can even pick which tees each individual person will play.  It will tell your your index, course handicap from the selected tee and then it will take the low index to zero and tell you how many strokes each person will get.  The only caveat is that you will both need to have USGA handicap indexes to look up the players.

Bottom line is this though, If he's a 10 from the back, and you are a 10 from the forward you will get strokes if either of you move boxes.  So you can each play your normal tees and it will be square.  Or if you move back your course handicap from those tees will be higher and you will get strokes.  If he moves up to your tees his course handicap will get lower ahd you will get strokes. 

Here's an example below.  This is my group for league today, I put all of us on the same tee's in the first picture.  In the 2nd I moved the bottom guy up one set of tee's.  Since the course is shorter his course handicap is 2 strokes lower from those tees.  

[cnosil]

41 minutes ago, hckymeyer said:

Bottom line is this though, If he's a 10 from the back, and you are a 10 from the forward you will get strokes if either of you move boxes.  So you can each play your normal tees and it will be square.  Or if you move back your course handicap from those tees will be higher and you will get strokes.  If he moves up to your tees his course handicap will get lower ahd you will get strokes. 

. 

This is the confusing part to me.  Handicap index is a simply the result of a calculation and doesn’t track what tees/course difficulty it was calculated from.  
 

For sake of discussion /explanation both players are a 10.1 (one plays the tips and one plays forward).  When calculating a course handicap why wouldn’t they be the same if they played for the same tees even if they normally played different tees?   In your first example the slope of the course is 141 so course handicap is  handicap index x 141 / 113.    If playing from the same tees, both players would have a course index of 13.   Where does course handicap get adjusted based on where the player normally plays? 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Just now, cnosil said:

This is the confusing part to me.  Handicap index is a simply the result of a calculation and doesn’t track what tees/course difficulty it was calculated from.  
 

For sake of discussion /explanation both players are a 10.1 (one plays the tips and one plays forward).  When calculating a course handicap why wouldn’t they be the same if they played for the same tees even if they normally played different tees?   In your first example the slope of the course is 141 so course handicap is  handicap index x 141 / 113.    If playing from the same tees, both players would have a course index of 13.   Where does course handicap get adjusted based on where the player normally plays? 

It doesn’t. Just like it doesn't account for two people who play their golf at different courses with different slope/rating but from similar distances.

also like the op who said playing the tips would hurt his game it could be a disadvantage to play forward tees because it could affect his strategy

[scbelowpar]

Thank you all for your responses.  Now you see the issue.  How to figure it out so the game is "fair".   

[cnosil]

13 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It doesn’t. Just like it doesn't account for two people who play their golf at different courses with different slope/rating but from similar distances.

also like the op who said playing the tips would hurt his game it could be a disadvantage to play forward tees because it could affect his strategy

That’s what I thought but reading the post I quoted it wasn’t clear.   However, You are addressing play and strategy, I am trying to stick with course handicap and strokes.  If we play same course but different tees and have the same handicap index as each other and decide to play the same set of tees, we aren’t giving any strokes becuase our course hadicap would be the same. 

[PMookie]

If the course is a 5 handicap from Blue and White tees, wouldn’t the person’s normal handicap go into effect? Both are playing a 5 hcp course, tee boxes show no differential, just go with handicap of the individuals? 
I can see @cnosil point about slope difference too…

[cnosil]

8 minutes ago, PMookie said:

If the course is a 5 handicap from Blue and White tees, wouldn’t the person’s normal handicap go into effect? Both are playing a 5 hcp course, tee boxes show no differential, just go with handicap of the individuals? 
I can see @cnosil point about slope difference too…

I don’t think so because you have to compute the course handicap from you handicap index based on the tees you are playing that day

course handicap = handicap index x slope / 113.  

So even if I play the same tees I always do, my course handicap will not match my handicap index unless the slope for the tees I am playing is 113.  
 

let’s say I always play pebble beach blue tees and am a 10 handicap index .   My course handicap is 12.7 rounded to 13  

10 x 144 / 113 = 12.7 

 

https://www.pebblebeach.com/content/uploads/PebbleBeach-Scorecard.pdf

[hckymeyer]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

This is the confusing part to me.  Handicap index is a simply the result of a calculation and doesn’t track what tees/course difficulty it was calculated from.  
 

For sake of discussion /explanation both players are a 10.1 (one plays the tips and one plays forward).  When calculating a course handicap why wouldn’t they be the same if they played for the same tees even if they normally played different tees?   In your first example the slope of the course is 141 so course handicap is  handicap index x 141 / 113.    If playing from the same tees, both players would have a course index of 13.   Where does course handicap get adjusted based on where the player normally plays? 

You're right cnosil.  The OP's comment about the handicap being based off certain tees led me to make an assumption that he was actually talking about a course handicap instead of an overall handicap index.  If they are both 10 index's overall and go to a course, the person who moved forward is going to end up giving strokes to the person who moved back.

That's why I like the handicap calculator in the USGA GHIN app so much.  Takes out all the math and guesswork

[cnosil]

9 minutes ago, hckymeyer said:

The OP's comment about the handicap being based off certain tees led me to make an assumption that he was actually talking about a course handicap instead of an overall handicap index. 

when people don’t use complete terminology it makes confusing.  Not the OPs fault,  it is just generally confusing  and I agree using the app to do the calculations is the way to go.  

[hckymeyer]

20 hours ago, scbelowpar said:

I was sure how to title this question.  How do you make a game fair if you and your opponent have the same handicap BUT the handicaps were based on different tees?  Example, you have a 10 handicap from the white tees (typically 6400 yards) and your competitor also has a 10 handicap but his are based on the back tees (7,000 yards).  If we both play from the same tees, he has an advantage as the back tees are way to long for me and the forward tees are way to easy for him.

Here's the quick summary after all this discussion, guys please correct me if I'm wrong.

First we need to differentiate if you are talking about a course handicap or a handicap index.  I'm a 4.0 handicap index, but how many strokes I get (my course handicap) will vary based on the tee's I play and the rating/slope from each set of tees.

Here's my personal example from my course.  We have 4 sets of tee's (sliver, black, gold, green) from shortest to longest.  

My overall index doesn't change from 4.0 unless I enter scores, but based on the slope rating from each set of tee's my course handicap will change.  From our silvers I'm a +2, black I'm a 4, Gold I'm a 5, Green I'm a 7.  So just at my home course how many strokes I get can change by up to 9 shots just based on which tee's I'm playing. 

I would really recommend using the GHIN app and play around with their handicap calculator.  You can also choose manual input, then you just enter your current index, the course rating, the slope rating and what par it is and it will tell you your handicap for that rating.  Each set of tee's is rated individually so as long as you are both 10 overall handicap index's you can pick different tee's and use the handicap calculator to figure out your course handicap from each one.  Then just give or take strokes off of those.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

That’s what I thought but reading the post I quoted it wasn’t clear.   However, You are addressing play and strategy, I am trying to stick with course handicap and strokes.  If we play same course but different tees and have the same handicap index as each other and decide to play the same set of tees, we aren’t giving any strokes becuase our course hadicap would be the same. 

Correct since our handicaps index is the same. But what are the chances that two people have the same handicap index. I’m the group I used to play with guys that were twelves and played the same course and same tees on the course didn’t have the same index.

but yes once it comes to strategy one golfer is going to have an advantage over the other. In the case of the OP he doesn’t have to play the same tees as the other guy and the course handicap accounts for the differences

[cnosil]

12 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

But what are the chances that two people have the same handicap index. 

Doesn’t matter what the odds are,  It was simply used to minimize variables to gain clarification.   

[itsjustagame]

If both players enter scores to GHIN properly and use course handicaps for the tees both are playing that day it's as fair as it is going to get. 

[tdc1]

@scbelowpar  If your 10 and your playing partner's 10 are actually your USGA handicap indexes then the GHIN app will provide the “Shots Off” number by simply entering the tee(s) you are playing.  

If you are using guesstimated handicaps, then play even up - you from 6400 yds. and him from 7000 yds.  

Or, play from the same tee and let the whining commence?