contradicting fittings for hybrid/fairway woods

[Butcherke]

I recently had a fitting with the store who sold me my first proper set of irons/wedges and putter. I got fir for them when I got under hdcp 36.

the reason for my second fitting was specifically to extend my current irons with a hybrid and/or fairway wood. the main reason being having a club to get me some more distance on both the fairway/rough and secondly from the tee.
when warming up with 7 iron, it was decided i would need a stiff flex shaft and i got some hybrids to try. My current longest iron is a 5 which i barely use.
during the fitting the attention shifted more to woods as i also mentioned the need for some more distance combined with consistency from the tee box.
in the end the suggestion came to a Callaway Rogue st max 5 wood with stiff flex mitsubishi white 75gr shaft. as i did not feel i was hitting good shots with it, I didn't end up buying it at the end of the session though.

After speaking to someone at the club they recommended me to go to another store which had good fitting experiences.
Getting there the focus went also the the 5 woods with the same model BUT because my club head speed was average between 85-90mph, the guy said i would need a regular shaft as they only give stiff flex shafts to people with club head speed of 93+ mph.

This has been making me doubt what option to go for as i can't get any Callaway charts of which swing speed fits which shaft flex specifically for fairway woods.
the fact i have a stiff flex for my irons checks out perfectly but that should be independent from the shaft flex of the fairway woods if i understood correctly.

Any advice of this?

[cnosil]

33 minutes ago, Butcherke said:

This has been making me doubt what option to go for as i can't get any Callaway charts of which swing speed fits which shaft flex specifically for fairway woods.
the fact i have a stiff flex for my irons checks out perfectly but that should be independent from the shaft flex of the fairway woods if i understood correctly.

Any advice of this?

Shaft flex is a made up thing by the shaft manufacturers and only relates to the shaft you are looking at.   Stiff in one shaft could and probably is a different flex than a different shaft.  Callaway has been known to label their shafts stiffer than they really are to appease the ego of male golfers.   

Ideally,  you need to try the shaft and see how it performs

[Butcherke]

Hey cnosil,

thanks for that, The fitting was also awkward as i currently don't own a faiway wood and the fitting was also kind of a lesson on how to swing that kind of club.
it was just confusing that for the exact same club; the rogue st max 5W, they both told me i need a different shaft.

I should probably practive the correct swing somehow and go back and try both version at some later point.

[cnosil]

9 minutes ago, Butcherke said:

it was just confusing that for the exact same club; the rogue st max 5W, they both told me i need a different shaft.

 

Fitters will fit players to different things.  They each have thoughts and preferences.    Unless you can post information from the launch monitors with the various shafts it is hard to tell if one was right and one was wrong. 

[Kenny B]

3 hours ago, Butcherke said:

This has been making me doubt what option to go for as i can't get any Callaway charts of which swing speed fits which shaft flex specifically for fairway woods.
the fact i have a stiff flex for my irons checks out perfectly but that should be independent from the shaft flex of the fairway woods if i understood correctly.

I wouldn't be concerned about having the same flex for both irons and woods.  As @cnosil said, flex really depends on shaft manufacturer and even within models by the same manufacturer.  Stiff in iron shaft does not necessarily mean stiff in wood shaft.  Some fitters will recommend swinging the softest wood flex that you can control, but that isn't always the case.  Some people perform better with a heavier shaft weight which tends to be stiffer flex.   

2 hours ago, Butcherke said:

it was just confusing that for the exact same club; the rogue st max 5W, they both told me i need a different shaft.

I should probably practive the correct swing somehow and go back and try both version at some later point.

You don't mention what your results were with each shaft.  The correct option to go for is the one that gives you the best performance for both distance and dispersion.  

I'm also curious why the 5W was selected; Callaway has great woods IMO (I have 3W, HeavenWood, and 9W).  I don't know what other long clubs you have in your bag; I assume driver, but then you mention that your longest iron is a 5-iron and you never use it.  Even with a 5W, it would seem that a hybrid or another FW would be a good choice.  Why did both fitters settle on only a 5W?

[Butcherke]

7 hours ago, Kenny B said:

I wouldn't be concerned about having the same flex for both irons and woods.  As @cnosil said, flex really depends on shaft manufacturer and even within models by the same manufacturer.  Stiff in iron shaft does not necessarily mean stiff in wood shaft.  Some fitters will recommend swinging the softest wood flex that you can control, but that isn't always the case.  Some people perform better with a heavier shaft weight which tends to be stiffer flex.   

You don't mention what your results were with each shaft.  The correct option to go for is the one that gives you the best performance for both distance and dispersion.  

I'm also curious why the 5W was selected; Callaway has great woods IMO (I have 3W, HeavenWood, and 9W).  I don't know what other long clubs you have in your bag; I assume driver, but then you mention that your longest iron is a 5-iron and you never use it.  Even with a 5W, it would seem that a hybrid or another FW would be a good choice.  Why did both fitters settle on only a 5W?

I currently don't own anything longer then my irons. No hybrids woods or driver.

The fact I would have a different flex in the new clubs compared to my irons indeed doesn't bother me.

The second fitting I started with the stiff 5w and later tried the regular. The regular performed better in distance and dispersion but that could have also been because the fitter was giving me pointers of how to use the woods as I was hitting. I didn't get the stiff one again during the session.

I went to the fittings with the info I wanted to extend my bag with 1 or 2 clubs. The fact I'm not that consistent in my swing yet had them tell me it is probably too soon for a driver or 3w.

[Josh Parker]

2 hours ago, Butcherke said:

 

 The regular performed better in distance and dispersion 

 

I personally would dial in on what you said here. 

If you felt more comfortable in a regular shaft, hit the regular shaft.  

I agree with the other comments, it's hard to give advice without any data but it sounds like the regular shaft hit well for you.

 

[Rob Person]

Welcome to the site!

Do you have other places to demo clubs at nearby? Or Maybe go back in a week or 2 (not for a fitting) and ask them to demo a few clubs, tell them you want to try different 5 woods in regular flex. Most places can adjust the loft/lie/shot bias in a minutes time. Another option is to attend a demo day for free.

If you are set on the brand of club, then you have already narrowed your options.

Also, have you considered a driving iron?

[Butcherke]

2 hours ago, Josh Parker said:

I personally would dial in on what you said here. 

If you felt more comfortable in a regular shaft, hit the regular shaft.  

I agree with the other comments, it's hard to give advice without any data but it sounds like the regular shaft hit well for you.

 

that's the feeling i had too. 

the data of the simulator used during the fitting session are not shared or given to the customers.

56 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

Welcome to the site!

Do you have other places to demo clubs at nearby? Or Maybe go back in a week or 2 (not for a fitting) and ask them to demo a few clubs, tell them you want to try different 5 woods in regular flex. Most places can adjust the loft/lie/shot bias in a minutes time. Another option is to attend a demo day for free.

If you are set on the brand of club, then you have already narrowed your options.

Also, have you considered a driving iron?

I do have some stores nearby. I just don't know how keen they are to me just walking in and testing some clubs.
i'm from Europe so golf store are unfortunately not as abundant and big as US golf stores.

I'm not specific in brand but as i have the feeling i'm not good enough yet to really feel a big difference between clubs as i don't get good hits consistently.
therefor i have been looking at the rogue st max clubs as those are the irons i currently have.

i haven't looked at a driving iron but i seem to remember once seeing that is more for experienced player, which i definitely am not

[Kenny B]

4 hours ago, Butcherke said:

I currently don't own anything longer then my irons. No hybrids woods or driver.

The fact I would have a different flex in the new clubs compared to my irons indeed doesn't bother me.

The second fitting I started with the stiff 5w and later tried the regular. The regular performed better in distance and dispersion but that could have also been because the fitter was giving me pointers of how to use the woods as I was hitting. I didn't get the stiff one again during the session.

I went to the fittings with the info I wanted to extend my bag with 1 or 2 clubs. The fact I'm not that consistent in my swing yet had them tell me it is probably too soon for a driver or 3w.

At this point with only irons and not hitting anything longer than a 6 iron, my advice for what it's worth is to get a FW (5W is fine) and try out a hybrid that would be in the yardage range of your 5 iron, maybe a 5H but find a club that gives you distance between the 5W and your 6 iron.  You need long clubs, but it also sounds like you need lessons that apply to all clubs.  You can take two options:  get the clubs and learn how to hit them yourself; or take lessons from a teaching pro.  

I do not recommend the first option.  I did that and it took me years to unlearn the bad habits I picked up.  I will always recommend that new golfers see a professional to get started on the right path.  I started with a 2W and a 4W with my first iron being a 5 iron, but that was before hybrids were popular.  Once I fixed by swing, woods became my favorite and I love my driver.  Best of luck... this a journey that we have all been down.

[Butcherke]

33 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

At this point with only irons and not hitting anything longer than a 6 iron, my advice for what it's worth is to get a FW (5W is fine) and try out a hybrid that would be in the yardage range of your 5 iron, maybe a 5H but find a club that gives you distance between the 5W and your 6 iron.  You need long clubs, but it also sounds like you need lessons that apply to all clubs.  You can take two options:  get the clubs and learn how to hit them yourself; or take lessons from a teaching pro.  

I do not recommend the first option.  I did that and it took me years to unlearn the bad habits I picked up.  I will always recommend that new golfers see a professional to get started on the right path.  I started with a 2W and a 4W with my first iron being a 5 iron, but that was before hybrids were popular.  Once I fixed by swing, woods became my favorite and I love my driver.  Best of luck... this a journey that we have all been down.

Thank you for that. It is indeed what I have also considered and a combination of both.

Getting the regular flex 5w and get some lessons for both the irons and the new wood. 

I do want to increase the confidence with the 5 iron but even if I get better with that club, the 5w should still get further when hitting it properly I assume.

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, Butcherke said:

 

the data of the simulator used during the fitting session are not shared or given to the customers.

 

This would be a reason for me not to trust that fitting.   Fitting sessions are a dialog about how you are hitting and what you are feeling that corresponds to what the fitter sees.   Part of that is sharing and discussing the actual data.  

3 minutes ago, Butcherke said:

I do want to increase the confidence with the 5 iron but even if I get better with that club, the 5w should still get further when hitting it properly I assume.

Possibly/probably.   Distances are based on how fast you swing the club.  Slower swing players  have less distance between clubs so a 5w and 5 iron may not be that far apart.   It also comes down to how well players hit irons vs woods.   Player pick clubs becuase they fill distance gaps which are identified by hitting the clubs.  

[Butcherke]

5 minutes ago, cnosil said:

This would be a reason for me not to trust that fitting.   Fitting sessions are a dialog about how you are hitting and what you are feeling that corresponds to what the fitter sees.   Part of that is sharing and discussing the actual data.  

Possibly/probably.   Distances are based on how fast you swing the club.  Slower swing players  have less distance between clubs so a 5w and 5 iron may not be that far apart.   It also comes down to how well players hit irons vs woods.   Player pick clubs becuase they fill distance gaps which are identified by hitting the clubs.  

With shared I meant I could take the data home. At the second store I could see all data in the simulator and the averages per club I tried so no issue there. The first store though only showed my last shot.

I do have an above average swing speed according to both fitters as i get my 7 iron to 150-160 yards total. But as said before, the woods distance didn't go over 200 as I was probably not getting the proper swing for it.

[cnosil]

7 minutes ago, Butcherke said:

With shared I meant I could take the data home. At the second store I could see all data in the simulator and the averages per club I tried so no issue there. The first store though only showed my last shot.

I do have an above average swing speed according to both fitters as i get my 7 iron to 150-160 yards total. But as said before, the woods distance didn't go over 200 as I was probably not getting the proper swing for it.

Last shot is meaningless, it is about all the shots.  You should take pictures of the data.   
 

based on those distances I might think a 5 wood would go 210ish.  5 iron would be 180ish 

[Cshane12]

Like an earlier poster or two said, flex is only relevant to the specific shaft (make/model). On the Mizuno shaft optimizer my top recommendations for irons were two different Nippon shafts in regular flex and a KBS in a stiff.
My swing speed is 90-92. Most men need to put ego away and stop worrying about shaft flex and start paying more attention to greens and fairways hit. Example; my good buddy, a decent golfer who is known to have a bit of an ego, was struggling off the tee with his driver. So the last time we played he hit mine all day (9.0 degree project x black 5.5 flex) and was piping it. During the round he kept saying I’m going to get one of those but in a 10.5 loft and stiff shaft. We all kept asking him why would you get anything different than mine. It’s the best he’s ever hit the driver. Hell, I’m glad we weren’t gambling that day. I later talked to him and he said he had ordered a driver like mine. About six weeks later we go play and he has the new driver. Yep, a 10.5 head and a different brand stiff shaft (one I know to play on the boardy side of stiff). He hasn’t seen a fairway since. 
At under 90 mph, unless you’re a really strong loader, regular flex is normally going to be plenty. Lots of mediocre fitters out there, find a good one.

[Donn lost in San Diego]

Don't be afraid of a modern driving iron.  I have a 2018 version of Mizuno MMC 18 driving iron, 18 degree, it is my rescue punch club as well as off the tee on 2 or 3 holes per round.  Definitely take lessons first if you aren't sure which to do first.  Getting fit for a swing, with faults that can be fixed with a few lessons, is a waste.

[G-Ram]

A 7w might be a good play for OP too. my longest iron is a 6, then the 7w, it's good for 190-210, fits my bag for gapping very well.

 

[Donn lost in San Diego]

On 1/30/2024 at 3:07 PM, Cshane12 said:

Like an earlier poster or two said, flex is only relevant to the specific shaft (make/model). On the Mizuno shaft optimizer my top recommendations for irons were two different Nippon shafts in regular flex and a KBS in a stiff.
My swing speed is 90-92. Most men need to put ego away and stop worrying about shaft flex and start paying more attention to greens and fairways hit. Example; my good buddy, a decent golfer who is known to have a bit of an ego, was struggling off the tee with his driver. So the last time we played he hit mine all day (9.0 degree project x black 5.5 flex) and was piping it. During the round he kept saying I’m going to get one of those but in a 10.5 loft and stiff shaft. We all kept asking him why would you get anything different than mine. It’s the best he’s ever hit the driver. Hell, I’m glad we weren’t gambling that day. I later talked to him and he said he had ordered a driver like mine. About six weeks later we go play and he has the new driver. Yep, a 10.5 head and a different brand stiff shaft (one I know to play on the boardy side of stiff). He hasn’t seen a fairway since. 
At under 90 mph, unless you’re a really strong loader, regular flex is normally going to be plenty. Lots of mediocre fitters out there, find a good one.

what a sad story

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 1/30/2024 at 6:07 PM, Cshane12 said:

At under 90 mph, unless you’re a really strong loader, regular flex is normally going to be plenty. Lots of mediocre fitters out there, find a good one.

Not true. There is no flex standards so saying a certain flex is going to be plenty isn’t accurate.

There are regular flex iron shafts that measure 3-4 flex points above what they are stamped.

Weight of the shaft and the stiffness profile are far more important than what’s stamped on a shaft.

Linking to a post I made on this very subject earlier today.

 

[Cshane12]

Ricky Bobby I agree. Even stated an example earlier in my post where I was recommended to a stiff in a certain shaft, but generally regular flex was the where I lived. In general under 90mph swing speeds will (normally) fit into a regular flex. I ended the post with the suggestion to find a good fitter.