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Tiger has been served with a lawsuit claiming he is responsible for an employee of "The Woods" restaurant being killed in an alcohol related car crash.  I feel for the parents of the 24 year old who was killed but this is in no way, shape or form the responsibility of anyone else....let alone, the kids employer.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/05/14/tiger-woods-named-lawsuit-after-restaurant-employee-dies-car-crash/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2a9a7381635f

 

My father was an alcoholic and drug addict.  His choices were all his own and not the fault of anyone else.  His choices led to his death at the age of 49.  Blaming others isn't going to change the fact that this kid had demons that were never dealt with properly.  No amount of money is going to bring back their son.  Typical in modern society though, everyone goes after the deepest pockets.

 

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4 minutes ago, sixcat said:

Tiger has been served with a lawsuit claiming he is responsible for an employee of "The Woods" restaurant being killed in an alcohol related car crash.  I feel for the parents of the 24 year old who was killed but this is in no way, shape or form the responsibility of anyone else....let alone, the kids employer.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/05/14/tiger-woods-named-lawsuit-after-restaurant-employee-dies-car-crash/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2a9a7381635f

 

My father was an alcoholic and drug addict.  His choices were all his own and not the fault of anyone else.  His choices led to his death at the age of 49.  Blaming others isn't going to change the fact that this kid had demons that were never dealt with properly.  No amount of money is going to bring back their son.  Typical in modern society though, everyone goes after the deepest pockets.

 

Yup! And by the way where was the intervention by the parents when they knew their son had a problem. It didn't happen overnight. 

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I wonder why the law suit was filed yesterday, the PGA Major week?

 

It does appear, based on the news article sixcat linked to, that they should have stopped serving him especially if they knew his history and knew he would be driving home. A 'duty of care' for ones employees or even just common sense should have prevailed.

What the young man does after he leaves his place of employment is solely his own responsibility.

Heartbreaking as it is I don't see any legal responsibility by the employer but I do see a lack of judgement, common sense and basic caring, but is that punishable I wonder.

I note the law suit value is $15,000 and maybe set at that to promote a quick settlement.

Personally, and without knowing the intimate details, if I was as wealthy as the restaurant is I would take moral responsibility and pay up with the caveat of not taking legal responsibility.

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2 minutes ago, perseveringgolfer said:

It does appear, based on the news article sixcat linked to, that they should have stopped serving him especially if they knew his history and knew he would be driving home. A 'duty of care' for ones employees or even just common sense should have prevailed.

I don't disagree with you that he should have been cut off but two things stand out in the article.  First, his girlfriend was the GM of the restaurant.  Second, his shift ended at 3pm and the accident happened at "approximately 6pm."  

Another article states his blood alcohol content was .256, more than three times the legal limit and the accident happened more than 20 miles from the restaurant.  For him to be that intoxicated and that far away from the restaurant in such a short time after his shift ended, he had to be slamming drinks or he was sneaking drinks through his entire shift. 

If he was slamming drinks and not sneaking drinks during his shift, It's reasonable to assume, he got beyond a certain limit so quickly, the restaurant didn't notice. 

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This happens anytime that there is an alcohol related death. Ask any pub owner they’ll tell you that the suit will start with the bar and funnel down to anyone who bought, sold or served that person a drink. It could include the vehicle manufacturer, the town if signs weren’t clearly in sight (tree overgrowth).

You see where I’m going with this? The only reason this tragic story is a story is because it involves TW.


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1 hour ago, sixcat said:

Tiger has been served with a lawsuit claiming he is responsible for an employee of "The Woods" restaurant being killed in an alcohol related car crash.  I feel for the parents of the 24 year old who was killed but this is in no way, shape or form the responsibility of anyone else....let alone, the kids employer.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/05/14/tiger-woods-named-lawsuit-after-restaurant-employee-dies-car-crash/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2a9a7381635f

 

My father was an alcoholic and drug addict.  His choices were all his own and not the fault of anyone else.  His choices led to his death at the age of 49.  Blaming others isn't going to change the fact that this kid had demons that were never dealt with properly.  No amount of money is going to bring back their son.  Typical in modern society though, everyone goes after the deepest pockets.

 

I saw this yesterday when TMZ first reported it (FYI came across it in my Apple News app - not an avid reader of TMZ). I feel the same way. I don't like to cast so much negativity toward a couple that recently lost their son, but this is purely a money grab. No one was responsible for that guy's actions except himself. I doubt seriously that anyone forced car keys into his hands and told him to drive home drunk. The assertion that anyone should have known about his alcohol abuse is pretty stupid as well. If there's one thing addicts are typically quite adept at, it's hiding their addiction and playing things off like it's no big deal. It's sad what happened to this kid and what his parents are going through. It's equally sad that they felt the need to drag Tiger through the mud when he appears to have rebounded so well from the mistakes of his own past.

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48 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

I saw this yesterday when TMZ first reported it (FYI came across it in my Apple News app - not an avid reader of TMZ). I feel the same way. I don't like to cast so much negativity toward a couple that recently lost their son, but this is purely a money grab. No one was responsible for that guy's actions except himself. I doubt seriously that anyone forced car keys into his hands and told him to drive home drunk. The assertion that anyone should have known about his alcohol abuse is pretty stupid as well. If there's one thing addicts are typically quite adept at, it's hiding their addiction and playing things off like it's no big deal. It's sad what happened to this kid and what his parents are going through. It's equally sad that they felt the need to drag Tiger through the mud when he appears to have rebounded so well from the mistakes of his own past.

You are highlighting the issue I was trying to get at by offering my own personal experiences.  My dad could mask his drunkenness so well, it took remarkable skill to even tell he was intoxicated or high.  He could charm his way out of most situations leaving people thinking he's just an average person blowing off a little steam and would be fine.  When in fact, he would drink rubbing alcohol or cough syrup if he couldn't find anything else.

Addicts have an innate ability to mask their addictions from those around them.

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The sad part is that he parents are going to most likely receive the money. Sad. Their son had a problem. First off, if you are an alcoholic, why are you working at a bar. Clearly AA did not work for him. The kid at 24 should be responsible enough for his own actions. Should someone have stopped him from driving. Probably, should they have stopped him from drinking, probably. It’s just another way for parents to put blame on someone else for their sons issues. It is tragic that the young man died, but if he had theses issues for so long, why did the parents or friends or family not step in and help. 

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With the caveat that I am not licensed to practice law in Florida and nothing in this post should be a legal opinion or advice, I thought I'd drop in to bring the actual Dram Shop Law on the books in Florida to light. 

Link is here

Dram Shop laws have been around since the late 19th century and exist as a way to find those involved liable as servers of alcohol in alcohol related injuries or death in a negligence action. Now, there's a lot of litigation as to what constitutes knowingly and other things, but by the letter of the law, the company could bear some responsibility, and as Tiger is an owner, that's why he's being roped in.

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8 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

With the caveat that I am not licensed to practice law in Florida and nothing in this post should be a legal opinion or advice, I thought I'd drop in to bring the actual Dram Shop Law on the books in Florida to light. 

Link is here

Dram Shop laws have been around since the late 19th century and exist as a way to find those involved liable as servers of alcohol in alcohol related injuries or death in a negligence action. Now, there's a lot of litigation as to what constitutes knowingly and other things, but by the letter of the law, the company could bear some responsibility, and as Tiger is an owner, that's why he's being roped in.

How would "Dram Shop Laws" work in this situation given the kids girlfriend was the General Manager of the bar in question?   I'm sure it could easily be argued in court, she gave him preferential treatment.

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2 hours ago, perseveringgolfer said:

 

I note the law suit value is $15,000 and maybe set at that to promote a quick settlement.

 

$15,000 is the minimum requirement to go to court.  They will ask for way more than that when the time comes.  This will head to mediation before going before a judge to see if an agreement can be worked out.  If not, it will head to court and go from there.  

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7 minutes ago, sixcat said:

How would "Dram Shop Laws" work in this situation given the kids girlfriend was the General Manager of the bar in question?   I'm sure it could easily be argued in court, she gave him preferential treatment.

Again, not licensed in Florida and not offering legal advice, but a read of the law and other people who are licensed in Florida, it's a strict liability crime. You break it, you're liable.

Also, you're argument is pointless from a legal standpoint. If she was the girlfriend, that's super good for the claimant, you think his girlfriend wouldn't know his issues with alcohol? If she's serving him, pretty easy to meet that knowingly standard. Obviously that's the bar they have to meet to prove it, but again, it's very unlikely it will get to that point as this will all but certainly be settled.

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29 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

Again, not licensed in Florida and not offering legal advice, but a read of the law and other people who are licensed in Florida, it's a strict liability crime. You break it, you're liable.

Also, you're argument is pointless from a legal standpoint. If she was the girlfriend, that's super good for the claimant, you think his girlfriend wouldn't know his issues with alcohol? If she's serving him, pretty easy to meet that knowingly standard. Obviously that's the bar they have to meet to prove it, but again, it's very unlikely it will get to that point as this will all but certainly be settled.

Thanks for the clarification and explanation.  Wasn't asking for your legal advice, just legal opinion since you seem to be much more knowledgeable than I am.  

I still believe we have become a "victim" society.  My problems can't be my fault.  Someone else must be to blame.  As a parent of teenagers, I see it all the time from other parents.  They fix everything for their kids and wonder why they continue to have issues.  Own your own baggage.  It isn't for someone else to do for you.  I guess common sense flies out the window these days.

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Just now, sixcat said:

Thanks for the clarification and explanation.  Wasn't asking for your legal advice, just legal opinion since you seem to be much more knowledgeable than I am.  

I still believe we have become a "victim" society.  My problems can't be my fault.  Someone else must be to blame.  As a parent of teenagers, I see it all the time from other parents.  They fix everything for their kids and wonder why they continue to have issues.  Own your own baggage.  It isn't for someone else to do for you.  I guess common sense flies out the window these days.

Understood. As an attorney though, I put it there for ethics reasons and to make clear to not take it completely to the bank, so to speak so that I don't get in trouble if anyone reports this to a committee or something.

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On 5/16/2019 at 8:23 PM, Charli said:

 It’s everyone else’s fault these days. 

Not true.  I take full responsibility for my golf swing and resulting scores 😁.  But yea, I agree with your comment personal responsibility/accountability is no longer in vogue.  As noted already, I see this as a money grab.  Perhaps if they donate all of whatever monetary settlement they receive to AA, I'll view it in a different light.

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On 5/14/2019 at 10:57 AM, sixcat said:

Thanks for the clarification and explanation.  Wasn't asking for your legal advice, just legal opinion since you seem to be much more knowledgeable than I am.  

I still believe we have become a "victim" society.  My problems can't be my fault.  Someone else must be to blame.  As a parent of teenagers, I see it all the time from other parents.  They fix everything for their kids and wonder why they continue to have issues.  Own your own baggage.  It isn't for someone else to do for you.  I guess common sense flies out the window these days.

To me, this isn't an either/or situation, both the bartender and the restaurant share responsibility.  Obviously, the individual is responsible for his actions.  But the restaurant made a deal with the State of Florida when they got their license to serve alcohol.  In return for the chance to make money, they explicitly accept responsibility for whatever happens when they knowingly serve habitual addicts of alcohol.  The law makes sense, people who are licensed to do things are generally required to make sure they don't endanger society at large in exercising that license.  This type of law SHOULD deter bars from recklessly serving anyone who has money to buy a drink, without regard to what that drunk may do once he leaves the bar.

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22 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

To me, this isn't an either/or situation, both the bartender and the restaurant share responsibility.  Obviously, the individual is responsible for his actions.  But the restaurant made a deal with the State of Florida when they got their license to serve alcohol.  In return for the chance to make money, they explicitly accept responsibility for whatever happens when they knowingly serve habitual addicts of alcohol.  The law makes sense, people who are licensed to do things are generally required to make sure they don't endanger society at large in exercising that license.  This type of law SHOULD deter bars from recklessly serving anyone who has money to buy a drink, without regard to what that drunk may do once he leaves the bar.

It certainly doesn't hurt this situation for the owner of the bar to be one of the wealthiest and most famous athletes on the planet.  "Victims" seem to always go after the deepest pockets!

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36 minutes ago, sixcat said:

It certainly doesn't hurt this situation for the owner of the bar to be one of the wealthiest and most famous athletes on the planet.  "Victims" seem to always go after the deepest pockets!

Of course, it does no good to sue someone who has no money.  The timing of the release was also done to maximize exposure.  That doesn't make the bar, or its owners, any less legally responsible for overserving a known alcoholic, if that's what actually happened.  I'm certain I don't know all of the appropriate facts, and I don't think the case will ever go to trial, so we'll never hear about the facts.

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