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So I did an iron fitting today...


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On 8/14/2020 at 10:06 AM, MyWifesSwingCoach said:

I am new to MGS and I am getting back into golf after almost a decade hiatus since high school. My Wife expressed interest and now that I am practicing swings and putting in the living room my 6 y/o is interested as well. So I am excited at the prospect of golfing with my Wife and children because I am not one to golf alone except on occasion. I am currently building up my bag (lockdown purchases of 4-9 of TM r7TP irons, a Adams Idea Pro hybrid, and also just purchased a TM r9 Superdeep TP Driver from BST, looking for wedges and possibly a fairway wood) and trying to "find my swing" to quote Baggar Vance.

But back to @Manimal26 and this thread, you say you are not an expert but I hope that when I get some consistency in my swing and get fitted that my fitter has as much knowledge as you do as well as the genuine desire to help fellow golfers as you do. It is immensely impressive what you were able to do with a simple video of someone hitting a couple of balls. Honestly, if I ever find my way to Texas I would say it is worth it to track you down for a fitting haha Just the amount of insight you have into the swing and equipment and the knowledge that you would share is worth whatever you would charge.

And with that I will end my longest post yet with two things: 1 Poster of the Year (or month or week) doesn't sound like too bad of an idea and 2 This has me thinking about what all the guys more knowledgeable than myself would be able to ask a potential fitter to ensure the best possible end result sort of like a questionnaire to vet a fitter. But rather than hijacking this thread, I will create a new thread.

@MyWifesSwingCoach I am happy to help anyway I can... And that is awesome about your whole family... I just recently got my brother to transition into golf... We both played Junior and college hockey so he has some potential, but everyone does which is what makes golf such an amazing sport... When it comes to me building out a bag I focus on the areas that will quickly impact your game... First is driver but a close second is the putter. Getting the ball in play and reducing puts on the green will shave strokes very quickly.... After that I go from the bottom up starting with the wedges... I change my bag based on courses but in general I go 46(set)/50/56/60 to keep gapping from my 91 at 42deg until I hit my SW where I very rarely hit full shots... LW same deal.... I also flip some times and go 46 set PW 52 and 58 if I need an extra club at the top for a long course or links style. So many things to consider when making an investment in wedges...

Here are some thoughts though...

image.png.d41b6ed32f233b54a22127cc03cc26bd.png

First I would swing down to any place that can measure lofts/lie/length... These are very traditional and even shorter on the lengths (which getting back in might be helpful in controlling the club while sacrificing some distance...) I play my 7i at 61 deg lie which is -2 flat from titleist but standard from Mizuno so you will need to keep that in mind... I mention this now because most Wedges come at a 64 lie angle which helps people not "SLICE" but in wedges length and lie are much more important than any other club besides a putter... I would look for a Vokey SM6/7/8 or a Cleveland RTX4 depending on your budget for a 46/48 PW it will have plenty of bounce and you can carry it over to your next set if your next set has strong lofts get the 48 and if you want more traditional get the 46.... Gapping will be important when you start and not as much as you progress... Clevland RTX4 have the Tour Issue DG s400 shaft in them which is a $30 upcharge from Vokey and you could probably find a new for $120 and used even cheaper.... GW/AW same deal but find a 50/52 depending on your PW choice... try to keep 4 deg loft between your clubs.... Now comes the trickey part and if you spend enough time here you will here a lot of people say no one should carry a LW... Ill say that the LW when used correctly is a weapon in the locker but for now could be passed up and carry the SW as your highest lofted club... I would look for again the Vokey/Cleveland etc but I would also look to see if you could pick up a ping glide 2.0/3.0 54/56 ES sole it is very wide has lots of bounce and will help out in a lot of situations... Mizuno t20 56/14 will also be a solid choice.... Do not get caught up in the bounce grind etc because at this point you want to focus on what will help you as you practice and improve.... If you add 3 wedges it will take you to 12 clubs... based on the loft of your Hybrid I would look to add another one closer to the loft of your 4i... so have a 22deg hy and maybe one lower at 25-26deg... fairway wood find something thats a 5w in the 17.5-19deg range... skip the 3w for now its such a difficult club when you are starting....

Finally in regards to vetting a fitter.... ... Link your new thread in here and I will move my post over after this one... 

Thanks for warm thoughts as well just those are enough to make the effort worth while.... 

 

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Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X 

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X 

Wedges: :mizuno-small: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer

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@ncwoz Here is what I noticed from the sample size of swings with the hybrid.....  . Here is your swing in the takeaway. If you notice you shaft plane is steep for how inside your arms and 

The goal of the fit is two fold... First is finding the right combos for your game at the time of the fit that will optimize you. That being said every OEM sends you a cart with their shaft offerings

So I did an iron fitting at Club Champion today, fully knowing I would not walk out ordering anything the same day. (And I actually managed it too!) I wanted to throw this up on a thread and see what

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On 8/14/2020 at 10:56 AM, dlow206 said:

@Manimal26 - thanks for all of the great insights in this thread, much appreciated. i have a question on irons. what type of iron / iron profiles tend to work best for diggers? just trying to get an idea for the future, not planning to look at new irons any time soon.

@dlow206 its tough to just throw out a profile for "diggers" your equipment setup looks fantastic and you have invested in your game for sure... That being said sometimes something as simple as a lie angle change can help with that... In general though when some tells me that I tend to have them try Srixon/Hogan irons because of the V sole which is the best when it comes to turf interactions.... If you want I am happy to do a quick swing analysis if you could send me a down the line and face on along with any LM data plus your profile (height weight club head speed with a driver & 7i) and maybe we can find the root cause... I myself will be looking at the new srixion irons when they come out as my next set...

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Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X 

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X 

Wedges: :mizuno-small: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer

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8 minutes ago, Manimal26 said:

@dlow206 its tough to just throw out a profile for "diggers" your equipment setup looks fantastic and you have invested in your game for sure... That being said sometimes something as simple as a lie angle change can help with that... In general though when some tells me that I tend to have them try Srixon/Hogan irons because of the V sole which is the best when it comes to turf interactions.... If you want I am happy to do a quick swing analysis if you could send me a down the line and face on along with any LM data plus your profile (height weight club head speed with a driver & 7i) and maybe we can find the root cause... I myself will be looking at the new srixion irons when they come out as my next set...

Thanks. Will try to record my swing when I can. In a situation right now the driving range at my club is only open for a quick warm up before a round due to Covid, so I am always in a rush to warm up.

My "digging" has been improving, and I am coming in much less steep. Before I was hitting some chunked iron shots that no club could fix. Now I am taking a more reasonable divot size, but still my miss is a little fat.

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 4/27/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Graphite Design AD-XC 6S
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Matrix Ozik 85S
Irons:srixon-small: ZX5 5 - PW - Accra 95 icwt S
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CBX 2 54, CBX Full Face 58 - Nippon Modus 105 Wedge
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Two Ball Ten S Tour Lines - 31"
 

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On 8/14/2020 at 10:52 PM, mchiller said:

@Manimal26. Following up on the CC perfect fit guarantee.

I was able to go in for my refit today. Brought my new fitted sticks and my old 6 iron since they use it for fittings. Fitter asked me to warm up and while doing so he took measurements of my two 6 irons. New fitted 6 iron (JPX 919 forged with Nippon NS Pro 950GH) was a D2 swing weight and old one (MP-54 with dynamic golf s300) was a D5. I explained i had been hitting a lot of chunks and toes and my backswing had gotten even longer (I already go past parallel with my old clubs) with my new clubs. As I was warming up, I asked him what my options were and I got the response "we're going to tinker." So I hit some shots with my new 6 iron and he said he was really going to being paying attention to swing path, angle of attack, and face to path. Maybe 1 or 2 others were in there too.

After I hit my new 6 iron and my old 6 iron he noticed the biggest difference was in attack angle. New 6 iron was about -7 and old was about -5. Not sure what I should be at for a 6 iron but even with my driver I have a -2 to -3 AoA. Believe my swing speed with the 6 iron was about 88mph and I flying it about 175-180. He also noticed my new 6 iron was longer in length from club head to butt (and in distance a bit, but not important here).  He then added some lead tape to the hosel of my 6 iron to test adding what more head weight would do. That brought my AoA back to about -5, what my old 6 iron was. Then he was quick to say he will cut down the shafts to what my old ones are and add in some tip weight to bring it to D5. 

All in all, it felt a bit like he was looking for the quick fix and I didn't really have a chance to explore other options. I could have been more vocal, but I'll give these a shot and he said to check back in with him after a few weeks with the new sticks to let him know how it's going and we can look again if we need to. 

 

@mchiller Thank you for the feed back.... Sorry for a slow response Friday afternoons and Saturdays are very busy days.... I see this from time to time... the S300 shaft weighs 124-132g and the 950 weighs 98g (nippon has much tighter tolerances than non TI DG stuff). The extra length was adding speed since the club simply travels farther plus the stronger lofts...  "we're going to tinker." is an appropriate response but should have been done in the initial fitting in fact all of this should have been factored in.... AoA is a crucial number to look at.... here is some PGA data to take a look at... and keep in mind everyone varies and averages are the only data I can get so extremes get factored in vs a median or other advanced stats...

image.png.6ffddcddbff74eb37d4a2b5770d73ca6.png

Rory for example hits around +3-+4 AoA on his driver and if he goes after one he will be +8 AoA.... Beefy McBeef Bryson hits much higher than +8... Cameron champ hits -3 AoA i think... but all are going after very different things.... However if you look at the 6i at -4.1 AoA I would guess that is much less room for fluctuation they are also trying to control shots with irons and can go much faster if needed.... @ncwoz take a look at this too as a guide since you generate this type of speed...

Of course they do not want to rebuild clubs that is a huge cost and I would have tried something vary similar to what he adjusted with the tip weight and length.... Let me know how it goes after the next couple of rounds or range sessions... I am a huge fan of Nippon and you can find some post I have made in the past as to why, but if that is not working out I would ask to get the clubs reshafted... the 950 is the number 1 shaft on the LPGA tour, but its not one size fits all... If you like the feel of the 950 ask to try the Modus 130 S its very similr in balance but has the extra weight that your S300 had...

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Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X 

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X 

Wedges: :mizuno-small: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer

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9 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

Thanks. Will try to record my swing when I can. In a situation right now the driving range at my club is only open for a quick warm up before a round due to Covid, so I am always in a rush to warm up.

My "digging" has been improving, and I am coming in much less steep. Before I was hitting some chunked iron shots that no club could fix. Now I am taking a more reasonable divot size, but still my miss is a little fat.

The Srixons/Hogans would help and Hogan has free demos they will send you to try as well.... I have no affiliation with them and we dont sell it at my shop, but if you have ever heard of the accustrike tour mat thing it does wonders and much cheaper than renting a launch monitor... I use one to practice my ball shaping and I dont tear up the grass or stain my clubs on a mat... plus you could practice at home as well...

Send me the videos when you get a free moment just need a couple of each... 

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Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X 

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X 

Wedges: :mizuno-small: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer

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@Manimal26 - had one other question for you. if someone becomes a good ball striker, are there any potential performance advantages go to more of a players club vs. GI? (not talking blades here). Besides the look of the club and the "workability". 

Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 4/27/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Graphite Design AD-XC 6S
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Matrix Ozik 85S
Irons:srixon-small: ZX5 5 - PW - Accra 95 icwt S
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CBX 2 54, CBX Full Face 58 - Nippon Modus 105 Wedge
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Two Ball Ten S Tour Lines - 31"
 

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2 hours ago, dlow206 said:

@Manimal26 - had one other question for you. if someone becomes a good ball striker, are there any potential performance advantages go to more of a players club vs. GI? (not talking blades here). Besides the look of the club and the "workability". 

Yes in a round about way... As you become better things such as offset and the sole width will limit you some... Offset is designed to give the club more time to square up and since most people purchasing GI tend to slice you see much more offset. As you improve your striking the offset will shut the face and you will either have to aim farther to the right or you will end up with some big draws.... In regards to sole width GI feature larger sole geometry which is designed to get the ball up (push cg back) and help push through turf (rough etc). When you strike better you will not want balls ballooning on you but you will lose the benefits when you hit from the rough... hope that helps a bit

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Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X 

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X 

Wedges: :mizuno-small: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer

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4 hours ago, Manimal26 said:

@mchiller Thank you for the feed back.... Sorry for a slow response Friday afternoons and Saturdays are very busy days.... I see this from time to time... the S300 shaft weighs 124-132g and the 950 weighs 98g (nippon has much tighter tolerances than non TI DG stuff). The extra length was adding speed since the club simply travels farther plus the stronger lofts...  "we're going to tinker." is an appropriate response but should have been done in the initial fitting in fact all of this should have been factored in.... AoA is a crucial number to look at.... here is some PGA data to take a look at... and keep in mind everyone varies and averages are the only data I can get so extremes get factored in vs a median or other advanced stats...

image.png.6ffddcddbff74eb37d4a2b5770d73ca6.png

Rory for example hits around +3-+4 AoA on his driver and if he goes after one he will be +8 AoA.... Beefy McBeef Bryson hits much higher than +8... Cameron champ hits -3 AoA i think... but all are going after very different things.... However if you look at the 6i at -4.1 AoA I would guess that is much less room for fluctuation they are also trying to control shots with irons and can go much faster if needed.... @ncwoz take a look at this too as a guide since you generate this type of speed...

Of course they do not want to rebuild clubs that is a huge cost and I would have tried something vary similar to what he adjusted with the tip weight and length.... Let me know how it goes after the next couple of rounds or range sessions... I am a huge fan of Nippon and you can find some post I have made in the past as to why, but if that is not working out I would ask to get the clubs reshafted... the 950 is the number 1 shaft on the LPGA tour, but its not one size fits all... If you like the feel of the 950 ask to try the Modus 130 S its very similr in balance but has the extra weight that your S300 had...

I can certainly understand them trying to not put in new shafts and help make the current ones work. I'm sure that's why he didn't want to share all options and just went with the tinker comment. If it works out and gets me to even a quarter of what it takes to play on LPGA, I'd be ecstatic. I always try to look at LPGA data and stats to compare my game to rather than as you call them the Beefy McBeefs. I certainly appreciate the extra work the fitter is putting in to cut my shafts and add tip weights. I hope to have them back by the weekend so I'll follow up again. I appreciate th comments and data. I'm not too far off on AoA, with my heavier 6 iron anyways. 😁

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29 minutes ago, Manimal26 said:

Yes in a round about way... As you become better things such as offset and the sole width will limit you some... Offset is designed to give the club more time to square up and since most people purchasing GI tend to slice you see much more offset. As you improve your striking the offset will shut the face and you will either have to aim farther to the right or you will end up with some big draws.... In regards to sole width GI feature larger sole geometry which is designed to get the ball up (push cg back) and help push through turf (rough etc). When you strike better you will not want balls ballooning on you but you will lose the benefits when you hit from the rough... hope that helps a bit

could this also lead to over closing the head at impact? example is the toe out racing the rest of the club and causing pulls or is that more of a swing path issue?

Driver: :callaway-small: Epic Flash SZ with  :Fuji:Pro 2.0 TS 7X. Testing Tensei Orange Pro S (1" tipped) at 44.75"

2H: :callaway-small: Super Hybrid with Tensei Orange Pro Hyb 80 Stiff (shaft may be swapped at some point) 

3H: :Sub70: 939X UST proforce V2 black F3 hybrid soft stepped XStiff UPRT setting 

4-AW: th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg  0211  with KBS Tour Stiff 2.5* up 1/4" long Unofficial Review

Wedges     :cleveland-small: Zipcore Tour Rack 54/full and 58/mid (review here)  (Backup 54*,60*: :ping-small:  S Tour KBS Tour Stiff 3* up)

Putter: :taylormade-small: Corza Ghost 35" ( Benched :odyssey-small: Toulon Las Vegas Stroke Lab  34")

Ball: :Snell:MTB-X

:Arccos:

 

 

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2 minutes ago, rbsiedsc said:

could this also lead to over closing the head at impact? example is the toe out racing the rest of the club and causing pulls or is that more of a swing path issue?

Toe out racing usually has to do with the golfer. club heads are designed to be balanced for the most part. But in golf there are always exceptions.

Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X 

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X 

Wedges: :mizuno-small: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer

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23 hours ago, Manimal26 said:

@MyWifesSwingCoach I am happy to help anyway I can... And that is awesome about your whole family... I just recently got my brother to transition into golf... We both played Junior and college hockey so he has some potential, but everyone does which is what makes golf such an amazing sport... When it comes to me building out a bag I focus on the areas that will quickly impact your game... First is driver but a close second is the putter. Getting the ball in play and reducing puts on the green will shave strokes very quickly.... After that I go from the bottom up starting with the wedges... I change my bag based on courses but in general I go 46(set)/50/56/60 to keep gapping from my 91 at 42deg until I hit my SW where I very rarely hit full shots... LW same deal.... I also flip some times and go 46 set PW 52 and 58 if I need an extra club at the top for a long course or links style. So many things to consider when making an investment in wedges...

Here are some thoughts though...

image.png.d41b6ed32f233b54a22127cc03cc26bd.png

First I would swing down to any place that can measure lofts/lie/length... These are very traditional and even shorter on the lengths (which getting back in might be helpful in controlling the club while sacrificing some distance...) I play my 7i at 61 deg lie which is -2 flat from titleist but standard from Mizuno so you will need to keep that in mind... I mention this now because most Wedges come at a 64 lie angle which helps people not "SLICE" but in wedges length and lie are much more important than any other club besides a putter... I would look for a Vokey SM6/7/8 or a Cleveland RTX4 depending on your budget for a 46/48 PW it will have plenty of bounce and you can carry it over to your next set if your next set has strong lofts get the 48 and if you want more traditional get the 46.... Gapping will be important when you start and not as much as you progress... Clevland RTX4 have the Tour Issue DG s400 shaft in them which is a $30 upcharge from Vokey and you could probably find a new for $120 and used even cheaper.... GW/AW same deal but find a 50/52 depending on your PW choice... try to keep 4 deg loft between your clubs.... Now comes the trickey part and if you spend enough time here you will here a lot of people say no one should carry a LW... Ill say that the LW when used correctly is a weapon in the locker but for now could be passed up and carry the SW as your highest lofted club... I would look for again the Vokey/Cleveland etc but I would also look to see if you could pick up a ping glide 2.0/3.0 54/56 ES sole it is very wide has lots of bounce and will help out in a lot of situations... Mizuno t20 56/14 will also be a solid choice.... Do not get caught up in the bounce grind etc because at this point you want to focus on what will help you as you practice and improve.... If you add 3 wedges it will take you to 12 clubs... based on the loft of your Hybrid I would look to add another one closer to the loft of your 4i... so have a 22deg hy and maybe one lower at 25-26deg... fairway wood find something thats a 5w in the 17.5-19deg range... skip the 3w for now its such a difficult club when you are starting....

Finally in regards to vetting a fitter.... ... Link your new thread in here and I will move my post over after this one... 

Thanks for warm thoughts as well just those are enough to make the effort worth while.... 

 

@Manimal26 Wow, Thank you for the insight. I will definitely be picking your brain as I continue to build my bag and find my swing.

I do have a question for you though, what is your opinion on the online options in regards to fitting?

I have done two, and here are the results below (I am 5'11")

Jeffmont/Avian = 7i is 37" Length and 63* Lie (so +0.25" and 1.5* upright Lie) and

golf-info-guide = 7i is 37" Length and 63* Lie (same)

I found it interesting that they were the same length and lie so if I may, what are your thoughts?

Here is the link to my new topic:

 

Driver - Titleist 983K 9.5* - Titleist 4560 S-Flex Shaft

3 Wood - 2020 Adams Tight Lies 16* - Aldila Synergy Red 50-S Shaft

2 Hybrid - Adams Idea Pro - Aldila VS Proto+ 'By You' 80-S Shaft

3 Iron - Titleist 690MB True Temper Reg Flex

4-9 Irons - Taylormade R7TP True Temper X-100 Shafts (6i has mismatched Project X 6.0 shaft)

Sand Wedge - Adams GT XTreme 2 SW

Putter - PING Heppler Tomcat 14

Ball - Titleist Tour Soft

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28 minutes ago, MyWifesSwingCoach said:

Wow, Thank you for the insight. I will definitely be picking your brain as I continue to build my bag and find my swing.

I do have a question for you though, what is your opinion on the online options in regards to fitting?

I have done two, and here are the results below (I am 5'11")

Jeffmont/Avian = 7i is 37" Length and 63* Lie (so +0.25" and 1.5* upright Lie) and

golf-info-guide = 7i is 37" Length and 63* Lie (same)

I found it interesting that they were the same length and lie so if I may, what are your thoughts?

Here is the link to my new topic:

@MyWifesSwingCoach Honestly it looks like they used the new Ping color code chart for 2021. If you look at your height and wrist to floor measurement there you have today's standard length 7i at 37" and 1.5 upright to 63 deg... Now Ping does use 62 deg for their standard 7i lie angle while Titleist TM and Callaway all use 63 deg... .. For example I am 6'1" wrist to floor call it 35.5" I should be playing 1/4" over and a 63.5 lie angle... In reality the 1/4" adds about .5 deg upright too... I play standard length irons except in my wedges (different topic) and my 7i lie is 61 deg (-2 from Titleist standard)... I also just did there online demo we shall see what they spit out...  I am going to check out your other thread and then send you a DM!

 

 

 

image.png.3aadf00e530d15cad19afabfeb584db5.pngimage.png.a762ba4df0dd38d33e6233d939561797.png

Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X 

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X 

Wedges: :mizuno-small: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer

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6 minutes ago, Manimal26 said:

@MyWifesSwingCoach Honestly it looks like they used the new Ping color code chart for 2021. If you look at your height and wrist to floor measurement there you have today's standard length 7i at 37" and 1.5 upright to 63 deg... Now Ping does use 62 deg for their standard 7i lie angle while Titleist TM and Callaway all use 63 deg... .. For example I am 6'1" wrist to floor call it 35.5" I should be playing 1/4" over and a 63.5 lie angle... In reality the 1/4" adds about .5 deg upright too... I play standard length irons except in my wedges (different topic) and my 7i lie is 61 deg (-2 from Titleist standard)... I also just did there online demo we shall see what they spit out...  I am going to check out your other thread and then send you a DM!

 

 

 

image.png.3aadf00e530d15cad19afabfeb584db5.pngimage.png.a762ba4df0dd38d33e6233d939561797.png

This new Ping chart is interesting. I am 5'5" with shoes on and somewhere between 30" and 31" wrist to floor, right about in the middle so let's call it 30.5". 

Right now I am playing my Callaway irons a 1/2" short and 2 flat. I wonder if flatter would help me. I tend to hold my arms higher at setup than I should because it looks weird to me when the toe is in the air with irons.

Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 4/27/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Graphite Design AD-XC 6S
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Matrix Ozik 85S
Irons:srixon-small: ZX5 5 - PW - Accra 95 icwt S
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CBX 2 54, CBX Full Face 58 - Nippon Modus 105 Wedge
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Two Ball Ten S Tour Lines - 31"
 

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5 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

This new Ping chart is interesting. I am 5'5" with shoes on and somewhere between 30" and 31" wrist to floor, right about in the middle so let's call it 30.5". 

Right now I am playing my Callaway irons a 1/2" short and 2 flat. I wonder if flatter would help me. I tend to hold my arms higher at setup than I should because it looks weird to me when the toe is in the air with irons.

Now that I know that I would say the 1/2" is hurting you combined with the 2 flat. when you shorten a club a 1/2" you effectively make it -1 degree flatter... rule of thumb each 1/2" inch of length change alters the effective lie by 1 degree. Your fitter may have noticed your high hands trying to help compensate but when you raise your hands before and even higher at impact you make the club so much more upright... Also could make senses to the pulls and such

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Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X 

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X 

Wedges: :mizuno-small: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer

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3 minutes ago, Manimal26 said:

Now that I know that I would say the 1/2" is hurting you combined with the 2 flat. when you shorten a club a 1/2" you effectively make it -1 degree flatter... rule of thumb each 1/2" inch of length change alters the effective lie by 1 degree. Your fitter may have noticed your high hands trying to help compensate but when you raise your hands before and even higher at impact you make the club so much more upright... Also could make senses to the pulls and such

My initial fitting (which was a bad fitting) for a prior set of irons was based on the old Ping chart, so that had put me in -1/2" and 2 flat. 

When I got fit the next time, which was a better fitting, the fitter agreed 1/2" shorter and 2 flat was right. I can't remember the exact details of how the lie angle was tested, but I think I remember sharpie marks on a ball and tape or something on the club head. 

So is the new Ping chart a better starting point?

Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 4/27/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Graphite Design AD-XC 6S
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Matrix Ozik 85S
Irons:srixon-small: ZX5 5 - PW - Accra 95 icwt S
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CBX 2 54, CBX Full Face 58 - Nippon Modus 105 Wedge
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Two Ball Ten S Tour Lines - 31"
 

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  • 2 months later...

So I did (another) iron fitting earlier this week, at a different shop near me. After getting some baseline numbers, the fitter gave me the Mizuno shaft optimizer and had me take a number of swings. The top three shafts it gave me were: 1) KBS $-Taper 120g 2) Project X 6.0 120g 3) DG X100

I hit a Ping i210, Titleist T300 and Callaway Mavrik Pro, but we spent most of our time in the JPX921 family. We basically just went through the 3 shafts with a combination of heads until we saw a combo that seemed to give us good numbers. I also realized that I have a pretty steep angle of attack, which I didn't realize until seeing the Trackman numbers. With a 7 iron I was typically around 5°-7° down.

We ended up having the most success with the JPX921 Tour and Forged head, with the $-Taper shaft. The numbers we were getting on a good swing from the Tours were probably a hair better than the Forged, but more penal on mishits. The fitter kinda said it was a bit of a tossup between the two, but he said if I'm planning on continuing to improve my game he was leaning towards the Tours so I could continue to grow into them.

This experience was miles better than the original fit I got from Club Champion which started this thread, but now that I'm home and thinking about it, I'm kicking myself a little that I didn't ask a few more questions. For one, I'm a little surprised the shafts the optimizer kicked out weren't another weight/stiffness jump up. I'm trying not to be the butt-hurt guy who wants to play rebar shafts even though he shouldn't, but I guess I was just a little surprised. I've also only ever played the zz-lites from my Ping Eye 2+'s, so I'm wondering if maybe I've just grown accustomed to the feel and weight of those, so I don't respond well to more heavy/stiff options? I wish I at least would have asked the fitter, as I'm sure he would have been happy to stick another shaft in if I asked, but I didn't think about that until now and we just stuck with what the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer spit out initially. The new shafts definitely felt a ton different than what I have now, and I did feel like I was quite used to the new feel until later in the fitting, when I started getting a lot more consistent results. Or maybe that was just because those combinations were the best?

@Manimal26 I'm just curious if you have any thoughts on these results too? You obviously have a lot of knowledge, and threw out a few shaft combinations earlier in this thread, so I'd love to hear what you think. I do have some Trackman data too if you're so inclined.

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Right Handed

Driver (9°): :cobra-small: Speedzone (HZRDUS Smoke Green 70g X-Stiff shaft)

FW (15°): :callaway-logo-1: X2 Hot (Aldila Tour Green 75 Tx Stiff shaft)

3/Driving Iron (18°): :Hogan: UiHi Iron (KBS Tour V 110g shaft)

OR

Hybrid (18°): :tour-edge: Exotics EXS Pro (Evenflow Black 6.5) (2020 MGS Official Review here)

Irons (PW-4)  post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TS-1's (KBS $-Taper 120g Stiff shafts)

Wedges (50°, 54° & 58°) post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TSW Forged (Dynamic Gold S300)

Putter: :EVNROLL: ER2B (2019 MGS Official Review here)

Ball: :Snell: MTB-Black OR MAXFLI Tour OR TP5X

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/7/2020 at 10:14 AM, ncwoz said:

So I did (another) iron fitting earlier this week, at a different shop near me. After getting some baseline numbers, the fitter gave me the Mizuno shaft optimizer and had me take a number of swings. The top three shafts it gave me were: 1) KBS $-Taper 120g 2) Project X 6.0 120g 3) DG X100

I hit a Ping i210, Titleist T300 and Callaway Mavrik Pro, but we spent most of our time in the JPX921 family. We basically just went through the 3 shafts with a combination of heads until we saw a combo that seemed to give us good numbers. I also realized that I have a pretty steep angle of attack, which I didn't realize until seeing the Trackman numbers. With a 7 iron I was typically around 5°-7° down.

We ended up having the most success with the JPX921 Tour and Forged head, with the $-Taper shaft. The numbers we were getting on a good swing from the Tours were probably a hair better than the Forged, but more penal on mishits. The fitter kinda said it was a bit of a tossup between the two, but he said if I'm planning on continuing to improve my game he was leaning towards the Tours so I could continue to grow into them.

This experience was miles better than the original fit I got from Club Champion which started this thread, but now that I'm home and thinking about it, I'm kicking myself a little that I didn't ask a few more questions. For one, I'm a little surprised the shafts the optimizer kicked out weren't another weight/stiffness jump up. I'm trying not to be the butt-hurt guy who wants to play rebar shafts even though he shouldn't, but I guess I was just a little surprised. I've also only ever played the zz-lites from my Ping Eye 2+'s, so I'm wondering if maybe I've just grown accustomed to the feel and weight of those, so I don't respond well to more heavy/stiff options? I wish I at least would have asked the fitter, as I'm sure he would have been happy to stick another shaft in if I asked, but I didn't think about that until now and we just stuck with what the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer spit out initially. The new shafts definitely felt a ton different than what I have now, and I did feel like I was quite used to the new feel until later in the fitting, when I started getting a lot more consistent results. Or maybe that was just because those combinations were the best?

@Manimal26 I'm just curious if you have any thoughts on these results too? You obviously have a lot of knowledge, and threw out a few shaft combinations earlier in this thread, so I'd love to hear what you think. I do have some Trackman data too if you're so inclined.

Hey man I have been a ghost recently... I got hit with a s*** storm that would challenge anyones s***** 2020... Let me look through it and ill respond!

  • Like 1

Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X 

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X 

Wedges: :mizuno-small: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer

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On 8/17/2020 at 9:38 AM, Manimal26 said:

@dlow206 its tough to just throw out a profile for "diggers" your equipment setup looks fantastic and you have invested in your game for sure... That being said sometimes something as simple as a lie angle change can help with that... In general though when some tells me that I tend to have them try Srixon/Hogan irons because of the V sole which is the best when it comes to turf interactions.... If you want I am happy to do a quick swing analysis if you could send me a down the line and face on along with any LM data plus your profile (height weight club head speed with a driver & 7i) and maybe we can find the root cause... I myself will be looking at the new srixion irons when they come out as my next set...

Would love to see your Srixon Zx vs T100 data.  I also love Modus 120s.  I've done several fittings and demos, Modus 120 always the best fit shaft for me.  

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Driver - Taylormade M5 10.5 (set to 9.75 deg and 1.5 open)  Fujikura Pro 2.0 Tour Spec 7x

3 wood - TM M3 17 deg (set to 15.5 deg and 3 deg open) GD DI 7x

3 Hybrid - TM rocketballz Accra Dymatch S165, 68g, M5 flex (XS)

Irons  (4-5) - Srixon 585s Nippon Modus Pro 120x

Irons (6-W) - Srixon 785s Nippon Modus Pro 120x

Wedges (51, 56, 60) - Cleveland RTX4 Nippon Modus 125 Wedge Flex

Putter - EvnRoll ER5

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@ncwoz glad to hear that you are sticking at it. I like the shaft optimizer as a starting point, but that being said it is only going to give options that are currently in Mizuno's lineup that are designed to work with their heads. A second note on that is if the place you went is past due with Mizuno or not doing enough volume they may have to pay or not have even have access to the new lineup. So double check Mizuno's website to see what no charge options are out there.

Second since you used trackman did they give you your data? If so upload it and I will let you know what I think about it.

I will break down your post below with thoughts and feedback below but here is some baseline things I go through:

Any time I do a fitting I ask a few questions depending on the situation. Did he ask any of these;

  • What are you looking to gain from this fitting? 
    • I keep in mind and note this answer, but I make it clear that this is not instruction but a way to maximize your current state of play and give you the ability to work towards your improvement goals with confidence.
  • Do you keep a HDCP, and if so what it is it? If not why not?
    • This is more just to guide me towards so club heads that might be the right fit
  • I will ask some other questions like these:
    • What is your average rounds per month during season
    • How many total rounds do you play a year
    • How many hours a week to you spend practicing
    • When you practice do you just hit balls or do you have a practice plan
    • Have you ever taken lessons?
  • I will also ask if you have any pain when you swing or physicals limitations.
    • lets me know if we might want to try graphite or light weight steel.

If he did not ask any of these feel free to answer them. The reason I ask these is to paint a picture of the life of the irons. For example I practice in season almost everyday and 2-3 times during the winter and I play 100+ rounds a year. My T-100's at this point (which I got day 1) are needing replacement. T-100 are also much tougher than a Mizuno 921 tour or forged.

 

On 11/7/2020 at 10:14 AM, ncwoz said:

So I did (another) iron fitting earlier this week, at a different shop near me. After getting some baseline numbers, the fitter gave me the Mizuno shaft optimizer and had me take a number of swings. The top three shafts it gave me were: 1) KBS $-Taper 120g 2) Project X 6.0 120g 3) DG X100

  • How far did you carry the ball with the shaft optimizer club?
  • What was the lie angle recommendation for the 7i from the optimizer? 
  • Was the X100 the standard or Tour Issue?
  • What was your club head speed with the various 7i?
  • This is an odd results just looking at it.

 

On 11/7/2020 at 10:14 AM, ncwoz said:

I hit a Ping i210, Titleist T300 and Callaway Mavrik Pro, but we spent most of our time in the JPX921 family. We basically just went through the 3 shafts with a combination of heads until we saw a combo that seemed to give us good numbers. I also realized that I have a pretty steep angle of attack, which I didn't realize until seeing the Trackman numbers. With a 7 iron I was typically around 5°-7° down.

  • Some players game improvement and players distance irons mixed in. I like that because you never know what might work best for you.
  • This years PGA data is skewed because of Covid-19 but in 2019 the avg AoA for a 7i was -4.3° with 90mph club head speed 16.3° launch angle and went 172 yards. The USGA data avg. for men with a 7i is 138 yards
    • Keep in mind PGA tour players can stretch these numbers because they know how to control launch and spin. But these are good base lines
  • I feel that If a golfer can’t feel a shaft that’s properly weighted, the other factors (flex, torque, bend profile) are moot, that combined with the steep AoA generally speaking a lighter shaft might help correct that which is why I find it odd that the X100 was a choice
On 11/7/2020 at 10:14 AM, ncwoz said:

We ended up having the most success with the JPX921 Tour and Forged head, with the $-Taper shaft. The numbers we were getting on a good swing from the Tours were probably a hair better than the Forged, but more penal on mishits. The fitter kind of said it was a bit of a tossup between the two, but he said if I'm planning on continuing to improve my game he was leaning towards the Tours so I could continue to grow into them.

  • As I mentioned you have a steep AoA so lighter shafts will usally tend to be your friend until you learn how to shallow out your swing better.
  • Here are some shafts that some of them are no-upcharge from Mizuno. You should swing by a Golf Galaxy and test some of these. I picked 3 from 3 different OEMS that I would have pulled for you to test.
    • Nippon Modus 120X (120g)
    • Nippon Modus 105X (113g)
    • Nippon Modus 115X (118.5g) (just released 11/12/20)
    • True Temper Dynamic Gold 120 X100 (120g) (if you goes this route it is worth the money to get the Tour Issue version but that is a whole different conversation as to why.)
    • True Temper Elevate Tour X (122G)
    • True Temper Dynamic Gold AMT X100 (Tour issue only) (115g 4i ascending to 130g PW)
    • KBS $-Taper Lite X (105g) (same deal as above)(worth trying something very light)
    • KBS Tour V X (120G)
    • KBS C-Taper Lite (115G)
  • Honestly I have the opposite opinion of your fitter. Golf should be fun first and fore most and I would go with the set that allows you to maximize your current ability and where you are today. As you improve you can grow out of them and into something else. Also the 921 tours require elite ball striking however they are much more forgiving than my T-100, but neither are very forgiving in general.
  • Also consider the MGS best value players club the NewLevel 902 you can get a demo 6/7 and a set of heads only is less than $500 and you can find shaft pulls  and have a custom set built (https://www.newlevelgolf.com/online-store/10-Day-Demo-Program-p248261332)
  •  
On 11/7/2020 at 10:14 AM, ncwoz said:

This experience was miles better than the original fit I got from Club Champion which started this thread, but now that I'm home and thinking about it, I'm kicking myself a little that I didn't ask a few more questions. For one, I'm a little surprised the shafts the optimizer kicked out weren't another weight/stiffness jump up. I'm trying not to be the butt-hurt guy who wants to play rebar shafts even though he shouldn't, but I guess I was just a little surprised. I've also only ever played the zz-lites from my Ping Eye 2+'s, so I'm wondering if maybe I've just grown accustomed to the feel and weight of those, so I don't respond well to more heavy/stiff options? I wish I at least would have asked the fitter, as I'm sure he would have been happy to stick another shaft in if I asked, but I didn't think about that until now and we just stuck with what the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer spit out initially. The new shafts definitely felt a ton different than what I have now, and I did feel like I was quite used to the new feel until later in the fitting, when I started getting a lot more consistent results. Or maybe that was just because those combinations were the best?

  • Hopefully my earlier thoughts give you some guidance. Any changes in golf feel very different when you start to make them.
  • Try to get the trackman data
  • The LAGP Texas Rebar are actually not that bad I just had no feel with them >_< Lol!!!!!!!!
  • Hopefully my earlier comments explain why the optimizer gave you those results.

You might have trouble finding a place to test the Nippon 115 and the KBS Tour V, but I would start with the 921 forged with the Nippon Modus 120X (no upcharge) the TT DG 120 X100 and C-Taper lite since they are all no-upcharge shafts from Mizuno.... I will also PM you some personal stuff for you as well....

  • Like 1

Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X 

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X 

Wedges: :mizuno-small: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer

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20 minutes ago, ejcrossl said:

Would love to see your Srixon Zx vs T100 data.  I also love Modus 120s.  I've done several fittings and demos, Modus 120 always the best fit shaft for me.  

I will get you some once I get a fitting head, but from the 785's being stronger lofted it might be better to compare the T-100s... 

Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

Woods:titelist-small: TSi2 16.5, Fujikura Ventus Blue 7X

Hybrid: :ping-small: G410 3&4H, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 95X 

Irons:titelist-small: T-100 3-PW, Nippon Modus 120 X 

Wedges: :mizuno-small: T20, DG TI S400, 50/56/60

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER1.2 W/BGT Stability Shaft

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1X-Optic Yellow

Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer

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