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Leave your ego and your long irons at home.


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Thanks I am glad I can make someone smile. Yes indeed that Taylor is 21* I read on here what dooboo said and it does put things in perspective. A new Taylor or Cally 5 iron has about the same loft as my old Macgregor 3 iron and I had not really thought about that untill he posted. I do know that most Taylor Pitching wedges are the same loft as my 8 iron. Shocker I still have several 1 irons and can still hit them in fact I carried and hit one today because the wind was blowing straight in my face on the range I was hitting "quail high" cuts about 220 yds off the deck. If it is windy down here I will pull out the 3 iron and put in the 1 iron

 

I don't know if you went through this, but it was once a note of pride to play a bag with only a Driver and 3 wood and the rest Irons. I also have a set or two that included the 1 and 2 irons somewhere in the house. I just never got to giving them a lot of use as I played a short course with small greens where floating a ball on was more productive. :lol:

 

 

Shambles

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I have a poll going on another thread and it asks what you carry in your bag in terms of woods, hybrids, and wedges. Most responders do not vary their set ups and most carry 1 or more hybrids. I usu

Not really, because the new pitching wedge only goes about 4 more yards than the old pitching wedge. The gap wedge will probably go a little less because most gap wedges are 52 and this one is 50.

I thought you want your gap to be split between your pitching and sand wedge. That is if you are just average players.

 

yes, it is 4 more yards than my traditional, but considering my gap wedge, that yardage is very big gap.

 

I hit my pitching wedge around 125yrds. I hit my gap 115 (about 85% swing). If I add 4 more yards to my pitching, now I have closer to 15yrds gap rather than 10.

 

This is just my case. I think unless you are going to replace all your clubs with these strong lofted newer clubs, you will have larger yardage gaps with your more traditional clubs you have.

I guess I am little more traditional when it comes to clubs and its loft angles.

 

Just my 2cents.

Driver: Snake Eye 9.5* Python XLD w/ AXE FW Regular, tipped 1"

4 Wood: Bridgestone J40 with AXE FW Stiff

Hybrid 19*, Acer XF, FST 115 Pro, stiff

Hybrid 25*, Bobby Jones, stock shaft, stiff

Irons 4-6: Tommy Armour, 845c silverback forged, R300

Irons 7-P: Tommy Armour, 845m Silverback forged, S300

Wedges: 56* Eidolon; 60* Mizuno

Putter: SC - Monterey 35", stock weight

Balls: B-Stone B330RX-S

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This is a common problem with the jacked up lofts of irons now a days. The clubs like the RBZ irons that have a 44* or 45* PW. It is just flat out too much loft for the traditional GW, SW, LW lofts.

 

Majority of players need about 4* or 5* of gap between wedges (47, 52, 56, 60 is common). If the player has really good touch then they can get away with 6* or 7* gaps. (47, 54, 60 is common for that configuration). When you get the 44* or 45* PW then the GW is 52* your gap is 7* or 8* this would only work for players with tour level touch to take something off the PW.

 

For a 45* PW the wedges need to be 50, 55, 60 OR 51, 57 OR 52, 58 to keep a consistent gap in loft between clubs (I recommend 4* or 5* gaps at most for players without great touch on wedges)

 

I hate the concept of a 45* or 44* PW, I play a 47* PW and 43* 9 iron, if I want the distance a 44* or 45* club would go I choke down on the grip of a 9 iron and swing. It is not about distance with irons it is about control of an approach shot into a green. Accuracy on irons is a higher premium then distance IMHO.

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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  • 2 weeks later...

You're traditional and that brings a song to my ear. Today's 21* 7 wood is yesterday's 21* 5 wood and I have had that in my bag for as long as I can remember. I doubt I would ever again want to go out on a fairway, especially a strange fairway, without it. I like it out of fairway sand and, regardless that my irons can do the same distances, I find it better against the wind and out of light rough. For me, that was the original trouble wood. I tried that wood out of countless bad positions and learned a lot in the process.

 

 

Shambles

actually outside the box again. In the summer when the fairway grass was lush I did not carry a fairway wood at all I hit a Toney Penna driver which was about 12* I could hit it off the deck and of course the 1 iron. But those days are long past

Driver --- Honma G1-X Stock R Flex----  3W Callaway Steelhead UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff--- 2 iron 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R flex-------- Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex shafts--- SW Cleveland 588 Sensicore S-400-- Putter Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye Fluted shaft-- Bag Old School Hoofer I had in the stash--- Goes along with my raggety persona

 

 

 

 

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Thanks I am glad I can make someone smile. Yes indeed that Taylor is 21* I read on here what dooboo said and it does put things in perspective. A new Taylor or Cally 5 iron has about the same loft as my old Macgregor 3 iron and I had not really thought about that untill he posted. I do know that most Taylor Pitching wedges are the same loft as my 8 iron. Shocker I still have several 1 irons and can still hit them in fact I carried and hit one today because the wind was blowing straight in my face on the range I was hitting "quail high" cuts about 220 yds off the deck. If it is windy down here I will pull out the 3 iron and put in the 1 iron

 

You know Stu, this is what this thread was about. On windy days, I carried a 3 and 4 iron thinking that I could work them better into the wind than a hybrid. It was just when I hit them side by side, all good shots, the hybrids out performed the iron every time. And on not so good shots, the hybrid really out performed the irons, so if the hybrids out perform the irons then why am I carrying these. I do not drive a standard transmission vehicle to prove my manlihood. Why should I hit an iron just to prove my manlihood. When the bets are made at the they are not higher for playing long irons.

 

 

I would bet that with a hybrid you could hit the same shot as your 1 iron enough times that it would not be a big deal. They hybrid may go higher but will still cover the same distance. Or at least that is what my study has shown.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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I rely on my 18 deg hybrid all the time. It's the club which gives me the most ROI of any clubs in the bag.

 

When it absolutely has to get from here to there somehow, it's my trusty 18 deg hybrid. And the adage where taking more club when in doubt, the 18 deg hybrid is always the more club that gets it there. Whether it's a 140 m, or a 180 m to the flag, I will always somehow mishit the hybrid to get the ball there (my normal range distance for this club is around 190 m).

Now in my bag:

TM SLDR 10.5 Deg with Matrix Ozik 6Q3 S flex

TM VSteel 15 deg 3 wood

Cleveland Launcher Hybrid 18 deg Diamana Red Board Stiff

Titleist ZB Forged Iron 3-PW DG S200 Steel Shaft

Cleveland CG15 46, 52, 56, 60 Wedges

Scotty Cameron California Del Mar

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I would bet that with a hybrid you could hit the same shot as your 1 iron enough times that it would not be a big deal. They hybrid may go higher but will still cover the same distance. Or at least that is what my study has shown.

 

 

I think that's only true for better players. When you're not all that good the hybrid is a miracle club differing from the fairways in ease of getting the ball floating and stopping but hands down easier than long irons.

 

 

Shambles

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After the round today, the highest handicapper in the group was complaining about how poorly he played today. He said, he came and took a lesson from the pro trying to keep slicing his driver and was all pissed off because all he had him do was hit the 7 iron. He asked if I would go back out with him and work with him. I said I would and he can ask me anytime for help but I tried to make it a rule never give unsolicited help. Occasionally, like last Saturday morning another high capper was there with his two sons, one of them home on leave from the Army, going to Afganistan, and this guy was so excited to be playing golf with his son he was just flaying away at the ball. I took him aside and told him to slow down, but that was the exception. He played pretty well after that but I could see what he was doing and understood that.

 

So I went out with this guy today, and he said tell me what I am doing wrong, and I said, No. I asked him what caused a slice, And he told me. I said, ok, you are cured, You know what your problem is. Now, how do you hit a draw. He said he did not know. So I talked him through the steps. And he hit a draw down the fairway. I told him to never think about what to do not to slice. Think about what to do to hit a draw. Or think about what to do to hit a fade. But never ever think about what not to do. think only about what you want to do. So we played the hole. Every step of the way we talked about what type of shot would be best. I would say, a fade would work best here, how do you do that. Then he would do it.

 

We got to the seventh hole, He said he was too far out to reach with a 3 wood. I asked him if he could reach with his driver. He said yes but he can't tee it up. I said hit it off the deck. He said he could not. So I took out my driver, dropped a ball next to his and hit it on to the green. He tried it, failed, dropped another ball and put it on the green. After nine more holes, he said, I parred or bogied every hole on this 9. I have never done that. He had shot a 102 that morning and about a 44 that nine.

 

He also has a new R11 rescue that he said he could not hit, He was complaining that it was supposed to be a "miracle club" and it was not. He said he sees me hitting them all the time and doing all kinds of stuff with them but it was not easier for him to hit than his three iron. I had him hit the three iron. I handed him his rescue and said not do the same thing, and he started to adjust, I said no, hit it just like you just hit your three iron. And he did. and it was great.

 

 

Bottom line is in my opinion, anyone can play better and hit any of the clubs if they just think about what they want to do and how to do it and then do it. I know this is oversimplication, and while he was still reverting back to his previous behavior he is getting better. We made the mistake of playing 18 more so 36 holes in all and to be honest, both of us were hacking at it in the end. I was so tired I left my wedge on 18 and I have never even driven off to the next teebox without a club before and I made it all the way home, brought the clubs in, and went to dinner. It was not until I got the sky caddie to recharge it until I noticed my wedge.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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Bottom line is in my opinion, anyone can play better and hit any of the clubs if they just think about what they want to do and how to do it and then do it. I know this is oversimplication, and while he was still reverting back to his previous behavior he is getting better. We made the mistake of playing 18 more so 36 holes in all and to be honest, both of us were hacking at it in the end. I was so tired I left my wedge on 18 and I have never even driven off to the next teebox without a club before and I made it all the way home, brought the clubs in, and went to dinner. It was not until I got the sky caddie to recharge it until I noticed my wedge.

 

Not anyone, but a lot of the people playing Golf can improve considerably by just going back to the basics and filling in the blanks on their own. Golf truly is mostly a mental game, and the real grind is in thinking your way through it both by reading and reviewing your own experience, assembling what skills you develop, and relying upon those skills. Unfortunately, there will always be those who prefer the joy of going for broke with every stroke, and there will be others who do not look enough to see chance opportunities that are actually good risk. Even if you've played that course that many times, it changes in many little ways from day to day, and so does the player.

 

 

Shambles

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RoverRick - sage advise in that last post. Feeling like I wanna go play a round with you and let you get into my head!!!

 

If we start playing for money, and I start to lose than i will really try to get in your head.:D

Just as you start to line up on a putt that is questionable, I may say that question out loud. Yesterday, I said to the guy that had the 6 foot birdie put and was two strokes behind me at the time, "Good luck with that putt, because I was shocked by how much it broke when I had it yesterday.":P

 

I did not have that putt yesterday, and it was straight in but it could have broke to the right. He made the putt, tied the match and we went to 18. I put my drive in the water, and then said, "Don't you just hate it when you see some one got right and you over compenstate?" So he followed me into the water. I had a great third shot and managed a par and he bogied and I won by one stroke.

 

This was the same guy who last week after my par, par, birdie, birdie, eagle start came up to me 60 yards from the green but with 15 yards of water and said, "After the way you have started there is no way you can get this on the green and score a point." So I thought I will show him. And he was right. Double bogey 5 shot to cover 60 yards.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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If we start playing for money, and I start to lose than i will really try to get in your head.:D

Just as you start to line up on a putt that is questionable, I may say that question out loud. Yesterday, I said to the guy that had the 6 foot birdie put and was two strokes behind me at the time, "Good luck with that putt, because I was shocked by how much it broke when I had it yesterday.":P

 

I did not have that putt yesterday, and it was straight in but it could have broke to the right. He made the putt, tied the match and we went to 18. I put my drive in the water, and then said, "Don't you just hate it when you see some one got right and you over compenstate?" So he followed me into the water. I had a great third shot and managed a par and he bogied and I won by one stroke.

 

This was the same guy who last week after my par, par, birdie, birdie, eagle start came up to me 60 yards from the green but with 15 yards of water and said, "After the way you have started there is no way you can get this on the green and score a point." So I thought I will show him. And he was right. Double bogey 5 shot to cover 60 yards.

 

You sir, are evil :D.

 

Mind games work like a charm though. I'm not good enough to start gambling, but I have noticed when the leadoff hitter hits it into the pond, there's a good chance everyone else will too (not so true when the leadoff hitter hits a bullet). One time I had a round with a group smoking "cigarettes". I'm not into "cigarettes", but playing with them was probably the most relaxed game I've ever played.

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After the round today, the highest handicapper in the group was complaining about how poorly he played today....

 

.....And he did. and it was great.

 

 

 

The follow up to yesterday's story. He came back out there today. We get to the first hole and he is spraying the ball all over the place and make double bogey. We get to the second teebox and he slices it out of bounds. I asked him what he was thinking when he hit the ball, and he said, "I was thinking don't hit it out of bounds." I gave him the Dr. Phil and said, "and how's that workin' out for ya?" We get to the next hole, and, he hits it out of bounds. I asked again, and again it was not what we talked about yesterday. We went through several holes like that and he had some pars and he had a lot of double bogeys. It was so frustrating for me, to watch him and everytime if I asked, he did not think about what we had said.

 

A few times I said something to him before he hit, and he played great. But then at other times it looked like he lined up and drove the ball right out of bounds, or right into the lake with no thought about it at all. It drove me crazy and started to affect my game worrying so much about him.

 

I know when I made changes it was a bitc#. But it is very hard to watch someone else do it.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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  • 4 months later...

It is with heavy heart that I revise this thread. Or at least the original premiss. That was that the hybrid was always better than the long iron. After getting new x stiff shafts and Mizuno heads, and vastly improving my iron play, I fell in love with the long irons again. Specifically the Mizuno MP FLI HI. I had the 4 iron and just love it. So much that I ordered the 2 iron and have been shopping around for the 3 iron.

 

I have been playing the 2 iron for the past couple of weeks and thought I was Mr. Bad Ass. Playing a 2 iron and hitting it well. I really have been hitting some great shots with it and have not had many mishits with it at all. Just for giggles today, I carried my 19* Hybrid also. And I hit them side by side. Performance wise, they were pretty close. The 2 iron a bit lower and a bit more runout. Both were about the same as far as distance, but the 19* hybrid was crazy easy to hit.

 

I came to the same conclusion that I had when I compared these clubs back in March. That the hybrid was so much easier to hit than they long iron that even if you can do it, you great shots are going to be very close but your misses are going to be much better with the hybrid.

 

I will keep the 2 iron to play on the windy days and when I am really striking the ball well, but on a daily basis I would foolish not to take advantage of the hotter face, more stopping power and higher ball flight that the Hybrid has to offer.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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As I said in another thread, it really depends. I revised this thread after hitting both the 2 iron and the 19 degree hybrid well, and after a couple of days of not hitting the 2 iron all that well. However, when I miss with the 2 iron it just sort of stays low and tails off a little bit to the right. When I miss with the hybrid it hooks the ball into next week. So it is not as much ego or even which one I hit better. It comes down to which one is a more managable miss. I have a 14* hybrid that I reshafted with a KBS Hybrid shaft that will replace my 3 wood, and I can choke down on this but I will probably bring the 2 iron out because it is pretty dependable. The Titleist 909H's have some ugly hooks hidden in them. I am pretty sure that is the shafts, I have a C Taper XS in the 2 iron and it does not hook.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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Can't you put a c-taper in the 909?

BIRDIE COACH & MENTOR, FIRST TEE GREATER HOUSTON
HDCP: 12.0 (GHIN: 3143312)
In my bag, March 2021
:titelist-small: TS2 Driver Hzrdous Smoke Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:titelist-small: TS2 Hybrids  Mitsubishi Tensei Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:mizuno-small:  MP-59 5-PW; KBS Tour (Regular Flex)
 :callaway-small: PM Grind Wedges
:bettinardi-1:  Putter

:bridgestone-small: 2020 TOUR B XS
Sun Mountain Cart Bag
:Clicgear: 4.0 Push Cart (I'm walking 9 outta 10 rounds!!)

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I can but I did not have one that was long enough. I just ordered one that is 41" to be butt trimmed but I will leave it and put it in the 14* hybrid. But I would bet that at some point I will put a C Taper in these 909H. I bought both of these on eBay really cheap anyway. And they did not have much resell value. I can not get anything for them anyway now because they have been bored out so that they can take the .370 parallel shaft. I can still put a .355 Taper in them by adding some glass bead to the epoxy.

 

I thought that the reason ferrules come a dozen to a package is so that you can melt them and reshaft each club 12 times.:P

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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