Low Spin Premium Balls for Everyone

[thechrisgibbs]

I'm really interested to understand how the Maxfli Tour S compares to the AVX which is my current gamer. I don't anticipate being selected for the ball test we're doing on the forum, but we all talk about low-spin options being better for MOST players. The ProV1 Left Dash is used by most of the MGS Staff for that reason. 

I think this year I'd like to personally test the Titleist AVX and Left Dash, Maxfli Tour S, Callaway Chrome Soft X LS, and Taylormade Tour Response. Am I missing any balls? I could do the direct-to-consumer brands like Vice, Snell, etc., but I think I'd like to narrow the scope to the balls you can buy at a pro shop when you roll up 10 min before your round like most of us do!

My parameters:

1. I have a GC3 and indoor sim here at home. I want to test it in true fitting fashion with Driver, 7 Iron, and a Wedge (I like Gap Wedge as I use a 3/4 swing for my 100-yard shot).
2. I can get back spin/side spin, launch angle, and carry distances for the comparison.
3. Lastly, I want to game these balls for at least 36 holes each. I have a golf trip coming up in Park City, UT where we are playing 36 holes a day for 4 days. I'll swap balls every 18 holes and use Arccos to track some of the important metrics like fairways hit, greens in regulation, and distances.

Let me know if you think I'm missing anything here. I'll start a testing thread in a few weeks after the Utah Amateur Open qualifier. I don't want to swap balls before that comp.

[highdraw_osu]

Will follow along closely, I have been gaming the Maxfli Tour, but have been curious about AVX but not willing to pay price for it...if Tour S is comparable to that I will definitely give it a whirl.  My only beef with the Tour is wind performance and if the Tour S can solve that issue I will be sold!  I can definitely sacrifice a bit of spin for better wind play, so be excited to see your results!

[Rhinosparky]

I'll be interested to see the real world comparisons for distance.  The one thing that never gets talked about when it come to ball launch monitors is the dimple pattern.  It make a difference yet every comparison that uses a launch monitor skims right past this when it comes to distance differences.

If I were to guess I will bet you really end up liking the Maxfli and the Tour response.

[BMart519]

I am working through the same comparison, mostly on course... Using the Tour Response, AVX and Left Dash currently while occasionally hitting a normal V1X to compare. The 2021 Ball test data shows the Srixon Z star as low spin off driver but pretty higher on wedges and irons which I am going to add in the mix as I liked previous versions of the ball and found it to be pretty straight which is the main consideration of my testing along with total distance. Have some CSX LS for later, but it is quite high spin in the 2021 ball testing, so it is a low priority for me to put in play. 

On course I am finding the rollout on the Tour Response to be a challenge for greenside, low punches, and partial shots where you will have less spin. I am now pivoting to Left Dash/Z Star to compare distance and direction while hopefully tightening up approach and short game.

I have 1 Left Dot from member prototype testing last year lol, it only comes out on very special (wide open, windy) occasions and want to compare that along with the normal Pro V1 as a bit of "control group" versus the low spin balls. I was experimenting with launch angles and spin numbers online with the Flightscope Trajectory optimizer and the simulated numbers between 11-16 degrees launch and 2100-3000 rpm aren't massive. So I am prioritizing on course play and not too worried about sim numbers and guessing what turf settings are close to what I play. 

[GregGarner]

22 hours ago, thechrisgibbs said:

I'm really interested to understand how the Maxfli Tour S compares to the AVX which is my current gamer. I don't anticipate being selected for the ball test we're doing on the forum, but we all talk about low-spin options being better for MOST players. The ProV1 Left Dash is used by most of the MGS Staff for that reason. 

I think this year I'd like to personally test the Titleist AVX and Left Dash, Maxfli Tour S, Callaway Chrome Soft X LS, and Taylormade Tour Response. Am I missing any balls? I could do the direct-to-consumer brands like Vice, Snell, etc., but I think I'd like to narrow the scope to the balls you can buy at a pro shop when you roll up 10 min before your round like most of us do!

My parameters:

1. I have a GC3 and indoor sim here at home. I want to test it in true fitting fashion with Driver, 7 Iron, and a Wedge (I like Gap Wedge as I use a 3/4 swing for my 100-yard shot).
2. I can get back spin/side spin, launch angle, and carry distances for the comparison.
3. Lastly, I want to game these balls for at least 36 holes each. I have a golf trip coming up in Park City, UT where we are playing 36 holes a day for 4 days. I'll swap balls every 18 holes and use Arccos to track some of the important metrics like fairways hit, greens in regulation, and distances.

Let me know if you think I'm missing anything here. I'll start a testing thread in a few weeks after the Utah Amateur Open qualifier. I don't want to swap balls before that comp.

Gonna slightly pushback on the premise only to say that Titleist fits more amateurs into their highest-spinning ball than any other. Most golfers need more spin, not less. AVX and Left Dash are tiny market shares for Titleist and even the standard ProV1 is a pretty low-spin ball in the urethane category.

That being said, I'd be more interested in the standard Chrome Soft than the XLS. The XLS is a pretty high-spin ball, it's just slightly less spin than the Chrome Soft X (but quite a bit more than the standard Chrome Soft)

I'd also add the Titleist Tour Speed into the test.

[thechrisgibbs]

1 hour ago, GregGarner said:

Gonna slightly pushback on the premise only to say that Titleist fits more amateurs into their highest-spinning ball than any other. Most golfers need more spin, not less. AVX and Left Dash are tiny market shares for Titleist and even the standard ProV1 is a pretty low-spin ball in the urethane category.

That being said, I'd be more interested in the standard Chrome Soft than the XLS. The XLS is a pretty high-spin ball, it's just slightly less spin than the Chrome Soft X (but quite a bit more than the standard Chrome Soft)

I'd also add the Titleist Tour Speed into the test.

Callaway on their website has the same label for Chrome Soft in every category as the XLS except greenside spin where it is the lower of the two. I could add that in, but it actually looks like the ERC Soft is Callaway's true AVX competitor. I may add the ERC Soft, but the XLS is what Callaway has labeled their Low Spin ball. I do realize the Chrome Soft may meet a lot of the XLS characteristics. I'll add that to my table.

Tour Speed is also low spin, but based on the Ball Lab, the consistency of roundness was a red flag. Titleist also doesn't use the Tour Speed in their fitting matrix.

Regarding Titleist fitting people into the high spin balls, I should have put a caveat that my driver gaming swing speed is around 115 mph. I struggle with keeping spin down like a lot of the MGS staff do. Kirkland is one of the top used high spin golf balls in the market, but if you struggle with sidespin on your driver, it's going to punish you a lot being in the high spin category.

 

[thechrisgibbs]

21 hours ago, highdraw_osu said:

Will follow along closely, I have been gaming the Maxfli Tour, but have been curious about AVX but not willing to pay price for it...if Tour S is comparable to that I will definitely give it a whirl.  My only beef with the Tour is wind performance and if the Tour S can solve that issue I will be sold!  I can definitely sacrifice a bit of spin for better wind play, so be excited to see your results!

Unless I'm playing in things like the Amateur Open or a competition, I almost always buy from lostgolfballs.com used under a 5A rating. They come in and you literally can't tell the difference. I've tested the 5A which have no markings or scuffs on my launch monitor vs. brand new balls in a blind test and have found they have virtually no differences. The pricing is around $2/ball which is excellent and on par with a Maxfli type ball.

[GregGarner]

2 hours ago, thechrisgibbs said:

Callaway on their website has the same label for Chrome Soft in every category as the XLS except greenside spin where it is the lower of the two. I could add that in, but it actually looks like the ERC Soft is Callaway's true AVX competitor. I may add the ERC Soft, but the XLS is what Callaway has labeled their Low Spin ball. I do realize the Chrome Soft may meet a lot of the XLS characteristics. I'll add that to my table.

Tour Speed is also low spin, but based on the Ball Lab, the consistency of roundness was a red flag. Titleist also doesn't use the Tour Speed in their fitting matrix.

Regarding Titleist fitting people into the high spin balls, I should have put a caveat that my driver gaming swing speed is around 115 mph. I struggle with keeping spin down like a lot of the MGS staff do. Kirkland is one of the top used high spin golf balls in the market, but if you struggle with sidespin on your driver, it's going to punish you a lot being in the high spin category.

 

Totally fair. Callaway has the same problem across their whole product line: they let engineers name things. Kind like when they had the Max LS driver. It was definitively NOT their lowest-spinning head. It was just a lower-spinning version of their Max head. Same is true for the Chrome Soft X and CS XLS. The 2021 Ball Test uses the first-gen XLS, which is slightly different than the 2022 version, but TXG's got probably the next best thing for data, showing the stair step of Chrome Soft being their lowest-spin urethane ball, then CS XLS, and then CSX being highest spin. 

And FWIW, Titleist does have Tour Speed in their fitting matrix. Just unlikely that they would fit you for it  

[BMart519]

2 hours ago, thechrisgibbs said:

Tour Speed is also low spin, but based on the Ball Lab, the consistency of roundness was a red flag. Titleist also doesn't use the Tour Speed in their fitting matrix.

Regarding Titleist fitting people into the high spin balls, I should have put a caveat that my driver gaming swing speed is around 115 mph. I struggle with keeping spin down like a lot of the MGS staff do. Kirkland is one of the top used high spin golf balls in the market, but if you struggle with sidespin on your driver, it's going to punish you a lot being in the high spin category.

 

At your speed it will be interesting to see the distance tradeoff from the soft, "super" low spin balls like Tour Response compared to the much firmer balls like left dash and CSX LS where the jump in ball speed will offset some of the increase in spin. Looking at GIR% will help paint some of the picture. I would put thought into proximity (which could show up in higher putts) or a short game measure as well as that is probably the area of largest difference for some of these. I would give fairways the least weighting, especially if playing at different courses. 

Dispersion still occurs with a robot hitting identical balls/shots. Until there is some research on how ball quality consistency affects scoring or offline data is published showing increased dispersion with a robot vs the "gold standard" Pro V1, I pay no mind to that testing and base performance solely by on-course performance.

[Cshane12]

I'm really interested to see how this plays out for you.  I too, am on a low spin ball quest.  My current gamer is the AVX and I love it.  I just don't love it at the cash register.  I'm a relatively slow swing speed guy, at least as far as comparing to most on this sight.  My driver is 90-93 mph, but I seem to launch and spin it pretty high (all clubs) with a steep descent angle.  The AVX flies flat and straight and has been the first ball to finally give me some rollout on the driver, but it lands and stops within about a yard or two on the green.  Ugh, that cost though!!!  

I've played the Chrome Soft Truvis and love the feel.  I don't like using an alignment aid which points anywhere it happens to land in the fairway.  That sometimes gets in my head, and it doesn't really matter where that soccer ball sits.  I just feel like I lose distance with the CS which I don't want, especially at practically the same price point of the AVX.  I just bought a dozen Callaway ERC soft to test out so that should be interesting. 

I love the quality and pricing of the Snell line of balls.  I'm currently working on combo dozen of the new Snell Prime and Prime X.  So far, the Prime appears to be the better ball for me.  A little softer and less spin.  I seem to hit it straighter and also farther (probably because I hit it straighter).  But, strictly for distance off the tee it doesn't seem to be quite as long at the AVX.  So, if anyone has knowledge of a comparable Snell ball, let me know.  The quality and price might help the Prime force it's way into the bag.

Time will tell and I'll be watching this thread.

[Tsecor]

On 5/3/2023 at 12:04 PM, thechrisgibbs said:

I'm really interested to understand how the Maxfli Tour S compares to the AVX which is my current gamer. I don't anticipate being selected for the ball test we're doing on the forum, but we all talk about low-spin options being better for MOST players. The ProV1 Left Dash is used by most of the MGS Staff for that reason. 

I think this year I'd like to personally test the Titleist AVX and Left Dash, Maxfli Tour S, Callaway Chrome Soft X LS, and Taylormade Tour Response. Am I missing any balls? I could do the direct-to-consumer brands like Vice, Snell, etc., but I think I'd like to narrow the scope to the balls you can buy at a pro shop when you roll up 10 min before your round like most of us do!

My parameters:

1. I have a GC3 and indoor sim here at home. I want to test it in true fitting fashion with Driver, 7 Iron, and a Wedge (I like Gap Wedge as I use a 3/4 swing for my 100-yard shot).
2. I can get back spin/side spin, launch angle, and carry distances for the comparison.
3. Lastly, I want to game these balls for at least 36 holes each. I have a golf trip coming up in Park City, UT where we are playing 36 holes a day for 4 days. I'll swap balls every 18 holes and use Arccos to track some of the important metrics like fairways hit, greens in regulation, and distances.

Let me know if you think I'm missing anything here. I'll start a testing thread in a few weeks after the Utah Amateur Open qualifier. I don't want to swap balls before that comp.

do your testing outdoors on grass. The numbers will be totally different

[thechrisgibbs]

3 hours ago, Tsecor said:

do your testing outdoors on grass. The numbers will be totally different

I actually have a net to test the balls on grass at my local course range and have my indoor sim for indoor testing. I'll also bring my GC3 to the course and give real results on course.

[Cshane12]

On 5/4/2023 at 9:19 AM, thechrisgibbs said:

Callaway on their website has the same label for Chrome Soft in every category as the XLS except greenside spin where it is the lower of the two. I could add that in, but it actually looks like the ERC Soft is Callaway's true AVX competitor. I may add the ERC Soft, but the XLS is what Callaway has labeled their Low Spin ball. I do realize the Chrome Soft may meet a lot of the XLS characteristics. I'll add that to my table.

A slow day at the course yesterday allowed me to play the ERC alongside the AVX.  Definitely a direct competitor.  The ERC felt softer which I really like.  Not that the AVX feels firm; I would leave that extra firm feeling to the XLS, which I used to play and just couldn't find the feeling for it.  The AVX spins a little better on the short pitch shots where you might look for it to check up, but there was zero difference on a full iron or flop shot falling out of the sky.  The AVX seems to be slightly more durable, but that's ok with ERC costing about half.  ERC is going to replace the AVX in my bag.

Side note: I also played a few holes with Pro V-1 and the new Snell.  I liked the Snell better.  Only place the Titleist won was durability.  While I'm on Titleist, a while back I tested a sleeve of Tour Speed balls.  Nothing about them called out for me, period.  Not that it's a bad ball, it just wasn't for me.

My overall opinion and conclusion: Titleist build great golf balls, but across the board they are way overpriced.  The large majority of us would be better off buying comparable golf balls in the $30-$40 range and use the extra coins to buy your group a round of drinks at the 19th.  Or, with your annual savings you can get a lesson.  (I should take my own advice here.)

[Jbreck10]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:04 AM, thechrisgibbs said:

I'm really interested to understand how the Maxfli Tour S compares to the AVX which is my current gamer. I don't anticipate being selected for the ball test we're doing on the forum, but we all talk about low-spin options being better for MOST players. The ProV1 Left Dash is used by most of the MGS Staff for that reason. 

I think this year I'd like to personally test the Titleist AVX and Left Dash, Maxfli Tour S, Callaway Chrome Soft X LS, and Taylormade Tour Response. Am I missing any balls? I could do the direct-to-consumer brands like Vice, Snell, etc., but I think I'd like to narrow the scope to the balls you can buy at a pro shop when you roll up 10 min before your round like most of us do!

My parameters:

1. I have a GC3 and indoor sim here at home. I want to test it in true fitting fashion with Driver, 7 Iron, and a Wedge (I like Gap Wedge as I use a 3/4 swing for my 100-yard shot).
2. I can get back spin/side spin, launch angle, and carry distances for the comparison.
3. Lastly, I want to game these balls for at least 36 holes each. I have a golf trip coming up in Park City, UT where we are playing 36 holes a day for 4 days. I'll swap balls every 18 holes and use Arccos to track some of the important metrics like fairways hit, greens in regulation, and distances.

Let me know if you think I'm missing anything here. I'll start a testing thread in a few weeks after the Utah Amateur Open qualifier. I don't want to swap balls before that comp.

Went down this same path recently and tried quite a few balls. I’m a high swing speed high spin player that was looking to reduce spin in all areas except green side and within 50yds. The AVX is a great ball and would say that it’s probably the best option overall. However, I like a good value and have found that the Vice pro soft is a great option for me. I play it in the drip version and love it. I’ve also played the maxfli tour S and found it to be another great option. However, if you take advantage of Vice’s bulk option, it’s by far the best ball for the money and represents great value. 

[thechrisgibbs]

On 5/6/2023 at 9:35 AM, Jbreck10 said:

Went down this same path recently and tried quite a few balls. I’m a high swing speed high spin player that was looking to reduce spin in all areas except green side and within 50yds. The AVX is a great ball and would say that it’s probably the best option overall. However, I like a good value and have found that the Vice pro soft is a great option for me. I play it in the drip version and love it. I’ve also played the maxfli tour S and found it to be another great option. However, if you take advantage of Vice’s bulk option, it’s by far the best ball for the money and represents great value. 

I'm in the same exact boat as you. The only reason I can play the AVX and justify it is that the lostgolfballs.com pricing for 5A is about the same price as new Vice golf balls.

The high swing speed and high spin numbers for my swing includes virtually every shaft and club maximized for lowering launch and spin. I have a 5* downward swing path, but that doesn't stop the spin in my swing! Thus, clubs AND ball have to be low spin options.

[GregGarner]

On 5/8/2023 at 11:49 AM, thechrisgibbs said:

I have a 5* downward swing path, but that doesn't stop the spin in my swing!

Almost certainly, the downward AoA is exacerbating the spin. When I start to struggle with excessive spin, I will do some drills trying to hit the ball off a high tee. This helps me really swing up on it, which reduces the spin loft and total spin.

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 5/8/2023 at 11:49 AM, thechrisgibbs said:

I'm in the same exact boat as you. The only reason I can play the AVX and justify it is that the lostgolfballs.com pricing for 5A is about the same price as new Vice golf balls.

The high swing speed and high spin numbers for my swing includes virtually every shaft and club maximized for lowering launch and spin. I have a 5* downward swing path, but that doesn't stop the spin in my swing! Thus, clubs AND ball have to be low spin options.

Is that with driver or irons?

 

[panhndl]

My driver is +/- 90 mph and use the Taylormade Tour Response golf balls and love them.  I recently got a dozen Maxfli Tour S balls.  I think they’re very close to the TMTR balls at a little less.  I know the Vice ball is supposed to be good but I didn’t like thEm at all.  I hold a lot more greens with the TMTR balls.

[thechrisgibbs]

I don't want this thread to fall by the wayside as I have already started the testing for these golf balls. Have already started running these through the ringer:

Also, the data is coming in really well. I am going to add a ProV1 as a control for these to ensure I'm getting the best data vs. an industry standard.

[thechrisgibbs]

Let the data flow! Starting with my 100-yard shot which is a 3/4 50* Vokey SM9 swing! Took 10 shots from each and spliced out any major miss hits. The ball data can't be punished when I pull-hook, fat, or thin my 100-yard shot!

[Fred Mitchell]

4 hours ago, thechrisgibbs said:

I don't want this thread to fall by the wayside as I have already started the testing for these golf balls. Have already started running these through the ringer:

Also, the data is coming in really well. I am going to add a ProV1 as a control for these to ensure I'm getting the best data vs. an industry standard.

Bridgestone BRX worth throwing, its pretty low spin

[thechrisgibbs]

On 5/4/2023 at 12:40 PM, GregGarner said:

for the Chrome Soft X and CS XLS. The 2021 Ball Test uses the first-gen XLS, which is slightly different than the 2022 version, but TXG's got probably the next best thing for data, showing the stair step of Chrome Soft being their lowest-spin urethane ball, then CS XLS, and then CSX being highest spin.

 

Based on my early shots for 100 yards, the data is showing exactly what you mentioned above. The Chrome Soft spun around the same as the other low-spin balls, whereas the Chrome Soft X LS spun the highest at 9,200 for that shot. 

[thechrisgibbs]

I've consolidated the bulk of the data to date in the below tables. Some highlights were what I realized might be missing in my current AVX ball of choice. With that said, I do have testing to do with my 4-iron and Driver left. A couple of highlights in the table:

1. The spin on the course with my AVX was not great in my pitch and chip testing. Just a lot of rollout. If I'm totally honest, I struggle most with tucked pins when I miss the green short-sided.
2. The Left Dash has a high chance of getting in the bag. Price point is a little tough to swallow, but they have used 5A options for $2.50/ball.
3. The Chrome Soft felt like hitting "Baked scallops smothered in butter" (Instagram deep cut), but the ball just didn't bite on real grass.
4. Chrome Soft X LS had some very appealing greenside reactions with check, but unlike its little sister the Chome Soft, it felt like hitting a rock. I'd never play it as it made the game unpleasant it was so hard. I also have a feeling the driver numbers would prevent me from playing this ball as a high spinner.
5. Tour Response is definitely a bag contender. Had a better penetrating ball flight on the 60 yard pitch outdoors, and the spin on grass was all-around solid. Second best feeling ball.
6. I'm going to reserve my numbers for the Maxfli as I'm testing this for the Forum's Official Testing, and I don't want to ruin the review by posting everything here.

 

[BMart519]

Very interested to see the driver distance results as someone who started the season with Tour Response and transitioned to Left Dash with a few AVX demos in between and a supply of CS XLS trying to get into rotation. 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Interesting indeed. I remember playing left dash before and getting no bite around the greens. Maybe i just wasn't striking that well. Would be interesting to go back to

[GregGarner]

On 5/26/2023 at 3:51 PM, thechrisgibbs said:

I've consolidated the bulk of the data to date in the below tables. Some highlights were what I realized might be missing in my current AVX ball of choice. With that said, I do have testing to do with my 4-iron and Driver left. A couple of highlights in the table:

1. The spin on the course with my AVX was not great in my pitch and chip testing. Just a lot of rollout. If I'm totally honest, I struggle most with tucked pins when I miss the green short-sided.
2. The Left Dash has a high chance of getting in the bag. Price point is a little tough to swallow, but they have used 5A options for $2.50/ball.
3. The Chrome Soft felt like hitting "Baked scallops smothered in butter" (Instagram deep cut), but the ball just didn't bite on real grass.
4. Chrome Soft X LS had some very appealing greenside reactions with check, but unlike its little sister the Chome Soft, it felt like hitting a rock. I'd never play it as it made the game unpleasant it was so hard. I also have a feeling the driver numbers would prevent me from playing this ball as a high spinner.
5. Tour Response is definitely a bag contender. Had a better penetrating ball flight on the 60 yard pitch outdoors, and the spin on grass was all-around solid. Second best feeling ball.
6. I'm going to reserve my numbers for the Maxfli as I'm testing this for the Forum's Official Testing, and I don't want to ruin the review by posting everything here.

 

Really interesting how everyone perceives sound/feel! AVX and Chrome Soft are both firmer than Tour Response and Left Dash is firmer than XLS but that's not how it seemed to you? Out of curiosity, have you changed up the order in which you hit the balls? I wonder if you hit the XLS immediately after the Left Dash, if that might change how you perceive it?

[Tx-Ping]

I decided to try out the CSX-LS and after 2 rounds I figured out that this is not the ball for me.  I am not sure what the problem is with me as I have played with other premium balls that were not supposed to be right for me and had decent success with those balls. With the LS, I don't get the same distance as I have with the ProV and the Tour B-RX, played 2 rounds ea. with both of those prior as I was looking for a new ball for this golf season. The ProV and B-RX played better for me with the ball flight and the better control. Unless it is in my head, which during a round, there are many things in there, I just cannot seem to hit it consistently. I have gone back to the CS for the remainder of the season, but am tinkering with the idea of getting some Maxfli tours since the Dicks just reopened after a long rebuild of their new facility.

I have 11 CSX-LS balls (yellow),  6 in the sleeves and 5 that are just open, which 3 of those have never been hit. If anyone has any Maxfli tours they would like to swap, or any other ball I didn't mention here,  let me know. I prefer yellow, but not a deal breaker and want to swap out, let me know, I would be glad to send to you, as I doubt I will be playing those again and would hate to just have sit around.

 

[Brian A]

I did the titliest virtual consultation and had been playing the left dash, the Titliest rep said that is not a low spin ball and recommended the AVX and regular ProV1. So is left dash really low spin

[Brian A]

I did the titliest virtual consultation and had been playing the left dash, the Titliest rep said that is not a low spin ball and recommended the AVX and regular ProV1. So is left dash really low sp

[cnosil]

44 minutes ago, Brian A said:

I did the titliest virtual consultation and had been playing the left dash, the Titliest rep said that is not a low spin ball and recommended the AVX and regular ProV1. So is left dash really low spin

Per Titleist website iron spin low to high is: AvX, left dash, v1,  v1x. 
 

you can look at the MGS 2021 ball test and see or wait until the 2023 test comes out in a week or so.