DeChambeau doesn't hit his 8 iron 200 yards

[Quigleyd]

This conversation is fun.. Read through it all. Good times guys, good times. 

[GT1885]

On 6/16/2024 at 3:13 PM, Hook DeLoft said:

He hits a 6 iron with 8 stamped on it 200 yards.  Still pretty impressive but not an 8 iron.  By the way, he hits a strong lofted 5 iron with 7 stamped on it.  It's more impressive that his club head speed allows him to hit a 30 degree club so high.

I got into a discussion about DeCham on another forum so I decided to do info gathering. I came across a thread on another forum that said in early 2023 he and Ping were doing some things. It stated the lofts on the irons that Ping built for him. I took note of his 8iron because that is what this discussion was about also. I went to my records that I've kept over the years of clubs I've used and his Ping 8 iron loft was what Mizuno made their MP-14 2 irons in 1999. Yes...2 iron.

[skraeling]

6 hours ago, GT1885 said:

I got into a discussion about DeCham on another forum so I decided to do info gathering. I came across a thread on another forum that said in early 2023 he and Ping were doing some things. It stated the lofts on the irons that Ping built for him. I took note of his 8iron because that is what this discussion was about also. I went to my records that I've kept over the years of clubs I've used and his Ping 8 iron loft was what Mizuno made their MP-14 2 irons in 1999. Yes...2 iron.

My 4i (18*) in my sim2os is lofted inbetween the taylormade 2 and 3 UHY utility / driving iron.  It is 3/4” shorter though.

Only ever tried it once off a fairway.  Looks like I’m swinging a flat bill board at the ball lol.

Only bought it off eBay for funsies.  Wasn’t originally bought when I got my set.  It seems a quite rare club too.  You can’t find them even on eBay now.

[MattA72]

In a social round we do often ask each other what club we’re hitting/ have hit.  
 

Clearly you should never take their answer as what you should hit due to loft, ability, strength, shot shape etc… but i don’t think there’s any harm in the ask.

[RetiredBoomer]

One thing about the stronger loft controversy that I've often heard
was that if the OEMs made modern construction clubs with the weak lofts of sixty years ago,
the shots would have no forward force and just fall down from the sky due to the modern weighting.

People actually believe this, but of course, it makes no sense.

The OEMs still make weak lofted clubs. 
Weaker than they ever made back then before
the 60° lob and 64° flop wedges were introduced.

It has NOTHING to do with the loft of the clubs,
but rather what they choose to stamp on the sole.

They CHOSE to strengthen the club number / loft correlation. 
There was no design or scientific necessity to do so.

 

 

[Warrior42111]

1 hour ago, RetiredBoomer said:

People actually believe this, but of course, it makes no sense.

 

 

 

But the weighting does make a difference, one of the biggest things to look at is the decent angle. If I hit a modern 8 Iron let's say old 6 Iron loft I can still stop it as good as a similarly hit classic 8 Iron, it will have less spin but a higher decent angle which is how they do it.

Also, most retro or classic lofted clubs are still about a club more than those clubs of the 70s or 80s

FWIW I can care less how far someone hits a club, I have enough golf issues than to worry about someone's loft and power compared to mine.

[RetiredBoomer]

27 minutes ago, Warrior42111 said:

But the weighting does make a difference, one of the biggest things to look at is the decent angle. If I hit a modern 8 Iron let's say old 6 Iron loft I can still stop it as good as a similarly hit classic 8 Iron, it will have less spin but a higher decent angle which is how they do it.

Also, most retro or classic lofted clubs are still about a club more than those clubs of the 70s or 80s

FWIW I can care less how far someone hits a club, I have enough golf issues than to worry about someone's loft and power compared to mine.

Agreed, Weighting does make a difference.

But they can still make clubs play well at every loft,
so it was a voluntary reason,
not a design necessity,
to have changed the old club number / loft correlations.

Since they decided to do that, however,
they still should not call clubs of less than 50° "wedges."
That, to me, is just ridiculous.
Stamping 10s and 11s on them would have made much more sense.

The very fact that they want to call a 43° club a pitching wedge
tells me that vanity lofting is really a thing. 

And if you tell me that you only care how far it goes, 
not what's stamped on it,
that simply isn't how I feel about it.

 

[Shankster]

I don’t remember seeing anywhere in stone that a 7 iron has to be 36°.  It is not part of the 10 commandments.

 

As a guy that delivers the club with dynamic loft around the loft of the club, having a 44° pitching wedge is absolutely perfect.  It produces launch and spin characteristics of someone who presents their 48° pitching wedge with 44° of dynamic loft at impact.  In fact with my 44° pitching wedge I generate around 10,000 for spin rate. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

1 minute ago, Shankster said:

I don’t remember seeing anywhere in stone that a 7 iron has to be 36°.  It is not part of the 10 commandments.

 

As a guy that delivers the club with dynamic loft around the loft of the club, having a 44° pitching wedge is absolutely perfect.  It produces launch and spin characteristics of someone who presents their 48° pitching wedge with 44° of dynamic loft at impact.  In fact with my 44° pitching wedge I generate around 10,000 for spin rate. 

Alan can you please create a new thread with your 10 commandments of golf... I feel like it would be a must read and there would be a lot about Thou must play uber fast all the time

[Shankster]

Yes Sir, give me a few days.  

[Shankster]

Or a few minutes

[BIG STU]

I read through all of this on a boring morning for me.

For me I play what I play as in old blades with "traditional" lofts. I could care less if someone else plays newer clubs with a PW of 43* which incidentally is an 8 iron for me. I know what I hit where I hit it. As it was mentioned people now days do not have a clue on lofts. Of course we have had "loft creep" all along. Good example is between the 80s Macgregor VIP blades I play everyday and my 1955 Hogan Precisions I play in vintage play some. Standard loft on my Mac 9 iron is 45* where the Hogan is 48*. Hogan on those sets calls the Equalizer (PW) at 52* Mac specs are 48* for the PW. See where I am coming from here?

To put it in a nutshell it is all about lofts and to some extend gapping. For example 52* is 52* no matter if you call it a PW or GW. Most people in our league now know not to club off of me. I could care less if Joe Blow hits his PW where I hit my 8 iron.

LOL I tried to pull the wool over on one of the course owner's sons who is a long knocker and pretty smart cookie. He is like 22 years old. I told him when I was his age I was as long as he or his brothers. He told me BS Stu you guys still had steel shafts, persimmon woods and balata balls no way you were longer. Yep like I said one smart cookie.

I know I am boring because I have my beliefs and will not argue the loft jacking thing or blades versus CBs either. I play what I play and someone else can play what they darn well please

[cnosil]

If we look in Theegala’s bag you have to ask which 8 iron since he plays 2.   @RetiredBoomer, you should follow this approach,  and change all the numbers on your irons
 

https://www.pgatour.com/article/news/equipment-report/2024/09/10/sahith-theegala-explains-hilarious-reason-why-he-now-plays-with-two-8-irons-ping-procore-championship

[Shapotomous]

When playing practice rounds i never ask what number club somebody hits.  i ask them what yardage did they play the shot or what yardage club did you hit.  

And similarly if somebody asks me what club i hit i tell them i hit my 150, or my whatever yardage club, never the number stamped on the bottom.

[RetiredBoomer]

4 hours ago, cnosil said:

  @RetiredBoomer, you should follow this approach,  and change all the numbers on your irons
 

 

I'm still not sure that you ever got my gist about lofts, C.

Changing the number on the irons would accomplish nothing.

You've already read this too many times,
but you're of course free to ignore it this time if you choose.

Changing both the loft and the gap spacing in a standard six-club iron set
is what's required to finish the set--the way I like it--in only eight more clubs, fourteen total.

Here we go.

5-iron................25°
6-iron................30°
7-iron................35°
8-iron................40°
9-iron................46°
PW......................52°

What does this leave room for in a 14 club set?

A driver.   That's seven.
A dedicated specialty driving iron.   That's eight.
Two fairway woods.  That's ten.
A low bounce finesse wedge, about 58º or 60°.   That's eleven.
A dedicated specialty sand iron.  That's twelve.
A dedicated specialty chipping iron.  That's thirteen.
And, of course, a putter.   That's fourteen.

OK, I get that many players don't want this kind of set.
Nevertheless, it should be obvious that anyone who does like this kind of set
would benefit from my concept of numbered iron lofting.

I wouldn't harp on it, but since I was mentioned,
I thought that I'd explain it one more time.

The USGA says fourteen clubs.
That's how I could do fourteen clubs
while having the set make-up that works best for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cnosil]

5 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

I'm still not sure that you ever got my gist about lofts, C.

Changing the number on the irons would accomplish nothing.

 

I totally understand what you have been saying.   My point was bend the clubs, sand down the exiting number and put the loft number on the club.  Just showing that when PGA pros don’t like something they just get it changes.  

[Shankster]

Easy.

 

52° Gap Wedge

46° Pitching Wedge 

40° 9 iron

and so on.  
 

The only thing that is different is the number on the bottom, for real.  

 

[RetiredBoomer]

I can understand the OEMs not making gear specifically for me.

I never understood why so few players share my ideas on set configuration.

I deeply believe that more people would benefit from it 
than would actually be willing to try it.

Golf has never been the game of radical thinkers, from what I've perceived.
I'm admittedly an anomaly.

 

[BIG STU]

14 hours ago, RetiredBoomer said:

I'm still not sure that you ever got my gist about lofts, C.

Changing the number on the irons would accomplish nothing.

You've already read this too many times,
but you're of course free to ignore it this time if you choose.

Changing both the loft and the gap spacing in a standard six-club iron set
is what's required to finish the set--the way I like it--in only eight more clubs, fourteen total.

Here we go.

5-iron................25°
6-iron................30°
7-iron................35°
8-iron................40°
9-iron................46°
PW......................52°

What does this leave room for in a 14 club set?

A driver.   That's seven.
A dedicated specialty driving iron.   That's eight.
Two fairway woods.  That's ten.
A low bounce finesse wedge, about 58º or 60°.   That's eleven.
A dedicated specialty sand iron.  That's twelve.
A dedicated specialty chipping iron.  That's thirteen.
And, of course, a putter.   That's fourteen.

OK, I get that many players don't want this kind of set.
Nevertheless, it should be obvious that anyone who does like this kind of set
would benefit from my concept of numbered iron lofting.

I wouldn't harp on it, but since I was mentioned,
I thought that I'd explain it one more time.

The USGA says fourteen clubs.
That's how I could do fourteen clubs
while having the set make-up that works best for m

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMHO exactly=== Play what works for you and your game

Edited Friday at 08:36 AM by BIG STU

[BIG STU]

14 hours ago, RetiredBoomer said:

I'm still not sure that you ever got my gist about lofts, C.

Changing the number on the irons would accomplish nothing.

You've already read this too many times,
but you're of course free to ignore it this time if you choose.

Changing both the loft and the gap spacing in a standard six-club iron set
is what's required to finish the set--the way I like it--in only eight more clubs, fourteen total.

Here we go.

5-iron................25°
6-iron................30°
7-iron................35°
8-iron................40°
9-iron................46°
PW......................52°

What does this leave room for in a 14 club set?

A driver.   That's seven.
A dedicated specialty driving iron.   That's eight.
Two fairway woods.  That's ten.
A low bounce finesse wedge, about 58º or 60°.   That's eleven.
A dedicated specialty sand iron.  That's twelve.
A dedicated specialty chipping iron.  That's thirteen.
And, of course, a putter.   That's fourteen.

OK, I get that many players don't want this kind of set.
Nevertheless, it should be obvious that anyone who does like this kind of set
would benefit from my concept of numbered iron lofting.

I wouldn't harp on it, but since I was mentioned,
I thought that I'd explain it one more time.

The USGA says fourteen clubs.
That's how I could do fourteen clubs
while having the set make-up that works best for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

double post

Edited Friday at 08:34 AM by BIG STU

[BIG STU]

6 hours ago, RetiredBoomer said:

I can understand the OEMs not making gear specifically for me.

I never understood why so few players share my ideas on set configuration.

I deeply believe that more people would benefit from it 
than would actually be willing to try it.

Golf has never been the game of radical thinkers, from what I've perceived.
I'm admittedly an anomaly.

 

I have always thought outside the box of conventional thinking. I have always done my own thing and could give 2 rips less what anyone else thinks.