Graphite Design Tour AD Shafts - 2024 Forum Review

[GolfSpy AFG]

6 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

Hayes, Unless I am missing something obvious, I believe you have a math error on your average yardages.  I get 266 and 271 for Round 1 for each shaft computing the average distance using the yardages listed.  I get similar #'s for the other rounds also.

Yeah, crap, you're right.  I'll fix it in the morning...too late at night to start doing math, especially when I already screwed it up once!  

[Shapotomous]

1 minute ago, GolfSpy AFG said:

Yeah, crap, you're right.  I'll fix it in the morning...too late at night to start doing math, especially when I already screwed it up once!  

Who does math??!!  I just pick the average function from the drop down menu in Excel!!  

[GolfSpy AFG]

11 hours ago, Shapotomous said:

Who does math??!!  I just pick the average function from the drop down menu in Excel!!  

Alright, updated the spreadsheets and fixed the math errors.  Thanks for catching that!

[GolfSpy_BOS]

15 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Shaft Myth #1 – The shaft is the engine of the golf club 

Shaft Myth #2 – The shaft is the most important component of the golf club

Shaft Myth #4 – The shaft is a key element for the amount of backspin imparted on a shot

 

I don't believe any of those are true, but I still feel the shaft is an important part of the fitting process.  If it changes the way I deliver the club into the ball it's going to make that head react differently because the club is going to be moving differently through the impact area.

There is no engine of a golf club.  The shaft is not the most important part, but it's a part of the system. Not a key element, but it can have an impact on how you deliver the club which will have an impact on the resulting spin.

I see my own swing path get more out to in with lighter shafts and more in to out with heavier shafts because of the way I feel them in my swing and how my body reacts to those forces.  That absolutely changes my ball flight.

15 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

There’s a reason when you go to a good fitter like Ian (txg/cc) TruSpec, TPI, ECPC, The kingdom and any top fitter they all start with the head. The use the head to get the right launch window. Then they fine tune with the shaft. They ask questions another what the golfer feels with the shaft and then tweak the shaft profile to fit the feel needs of the golfer

Yes, they fine tune with the shaft, which means it has an impact on the ball flight... I'm so confused as to your stance here.

[NM01]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy BOS said:

don't believe any of those are true, but I still feel the shaft is an important part of the fitting process.  If it changes the way I deliver the club into the ball it's going to make that head react differently because the club is going to be moving differently through the impact area.

Based on your years of fitting hundreds of golfers and thousands of hours conducting testing right?

Data > feelings and opinions

2 hours ago, GolfSpy BOS said:

I see my own swing path get more out to in with lighter shafts and more in to out with heavier shafts because of the way I feel them in my swing and how my body reacts to those forces.  That absolutely changes my ball fligh

The feel and timing aspect of the shaft which affect club delivery. Just like for some when a shaft is to heavy and/or too stiff people make bad swings to compensate for the feeling they have with the club.

2 hours ago, GolfSpy BOS said:

Yes, they fine tune with the shaft, which means it has an impact on the ball flight... I'm so confused as to your stance here.

It’s to fine tune the feel for the golfer. Then feel determines how one swings when the feel is off the timing is off. Then the timing is off then out swings are off and produce bad results.

The shaft is there for feel and weight and is a timing device.

 

 

Edited August 1 by RickyBobby_PR

[GolfSpy_BOS]

2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Based on your years of fitting hundreds of golfers and thousands of hours conducting testing right?

yeah, something like that.

[GolfSpy AFG]

Sigh. When you're too busy talking to listen...

[DukeStKing]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Based on your years of fitting hundreds of golfers and thousands of hours conducting testing right?

Data > feelings and opinions

The feel and timing aspect of the shaft which affect club delivery. Just like for some when a shaft is to heavy and/or too stiff people make bad swings to compensate for the feeling they have with the club.

It’s to fine tune the feel for the golfer. Then feel determines how one swings when the feel is off the timing is off. Then the timing is off then out swings are off and produce bad results.

The shaft is there for feel and weight and is a timing device.

 

 

Based on his years of fitting? Come on?! You attack ideas in a debate- never people! Stick to your ideas- don’t make it personal. 
From my reading, you’re both saying that shafts make a difference. You’re saying they’re a timing device, @GolfSpy BOS is saying there are dynamics that will affect the delivery- both things can be true and both things will affect flight and spin. 
Can’t we all just get along?!

[GolfSpy_BNG]

57 minutes ago, DukeStKing said:

Based on his years of fitting? Come on?! You attack ideas in a debate- never people! Stick to your ideas- don’t make it personal. 
From my reading, you’re both saying that shafts make a difference. You’re saying they’re a timing device, @GolfSpy BOS is saying there are dynamics that will affect the delivery- both things can be true and both things will affect flight and spin. 
Can’t we all just get along?!

[kam89]

I have now had the shaft out on course several times and so far am seeing much less of a fade and my distance has improved dramatically. According to the full swing pro, over the previous shaft my swing speed has increased almost 5mph and my spin is now sitting in the 2200s.

The pictures are from the recent tournament in Minneapolis. The shaft worked very well for me there as our scramble team came in 3rd. I have noticed I occasionally still get an open face when I get excited and swing to hard. Far less than with the previous shaft though.

 

[DukeStKing]

4 minutes ago, kam89 said:

I have now had the shaft out on course several times and so far am seeing much less of a fade and my distance has improved dramatically. According to the full swing pro, over the previous shaft my swing speed has increased almost 5mph and my spin is now sitting in the 2200s.

The pictures are from the recent tournament in Minneapolis. The shaft worked very well for me there as our scramble team came in 3rd. I have noticed I occasionally still get an open face when I get excited and swing to hard. Far less than with the previous shaft though.

 

5 mph! That’s some sweet action! I need to get me a little of that! 

[kam89]

Just now, DukeStKing said:

5 mph! That’s some sweet action! I need to get me a little of that! 

Ya with the last shaft if I went over 108-110 it was gone right. With this one I've made it to 117 and kept it straight this was my very first 300 carry.

 

 

[NM01]

1 hour ago, DukeStKing said:

Based on his years of fitting? Come on?! You attack ideas in a debate- never people! Stick to your ideas- don’t make it personal. 

Not making it personal. When ones opinion differs a lot from actual experts who have done hundreds and hundreds of fittings and thousands off hours of data collecting and testing they have to be based on something other than feelings

Rational people tend to change their minds and opinion when presented with data from experts in the field. The rest stay stuck in tneir mindset and don’t learn or grow and stay complacent.

1 hour ago, DukeStKing said:

From my reading, you’re both saying that shafts make a difference. You’re saying they’re a timing device, @GolfSpy BOS is saying there are dynamics that will affect the delivery- both things can be true and both things will affect flight and spin. 
Can’t we all just get along?!

We disagree on the role of the shaft and what it actually does. I know it doesn’t spin or launch. Callaway and some others have done this testing on a robot and shown that lightweight ladies shafts and all the way to xxx stiff long drive shafts don’t have any big change in launch or spin from each other.

The human factor determines club deliver which determines dynamic loft which is loft at impact. Its the head and the swing that influence launch and spin plain and simple .

[DukeStKing]

31 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Not making it personal. When ones opinion differs a lot from actual experts who have done hundreds and hundreds of fittings and thousands off hours of data collecting and testing they have to be based on something other than feelings

Rational people tend to change their minds and opinion when presented with data from experts in the field. The rest stay stuck in tneir mindset and don’t learn or grow and stay complacent.

We disagree on the role of the shaft and what it actually does. I know it doesn’t spin or launch. Callaway and some others have done this testing on a robot and shown that lightweight ladies shafts and all the way to xxx stiff long drive shafts don’t have any big change in launch or spin from each other.

The human factor determines club deliver which determines dynamic loft which is loft at impact. It’s the head and the swing that influence launch and spin plain and simple .

Robots? Well, then Golf Spy should just do this shaft test with robots and it’ll show that all the GD shafts are the same.  Sorry fellas… I guess this is the end of the thread.

Edited August 1 by DukeStKing
Sarcasm

[GolfSpy_BOS]

 

Just now, DukeStKing said:

Robots? Well, then Golf Spy should just do this shaft test with robots and it’ll show that all the GD shafts are the same.  Sorry fellas… I guess this is the end of the thread. 

It's all good, we're not robots... and we react differently to different shafts, which creates different outcomes.  A shaft may not spin, that I can agree with, but I know that my ball flight changes with different shafts so that's what I need to attribute the change in my swing to.

But I'm not here for that stuff anymore, I'd rather focus on some of those massive gains @kam89 was seeing last time out!  That's fantastic!  I went to PGASS to give the UB and DI a try in a TSR2 head, mainly because I was jealous of all the fun testing here.  I also found my swing produced more draws or left side-bias with that DI than I had with other shafts.  I actually think the UB in stiff and DI in X would play similarly, I might have to try that out.  

Keep up the good work testers, I love hearing about your real-life experiences versus other shafts you have tried!

 

[NM01]

3 hours ago, DukeStKing said:

Robots? Well, then Golf Spy should just do this shaft test with robots and it’ll show that all the GD shafts are the same.  Sorry fellas… I guess this is the end of the thread.

Yes robots. It’s how you control the test which is why it’s been started best there is the human factor and the feel aspect of the shaft. It’s also why it’s been stated in multiple threads that how a shaft or even a club performs for one person is irritant to how it will perform for another. This is why fittings or some level of set testing are necessary to determine what works for a golfer.

a lot of the mentality in here is like the bro science in the gym. Lots of opinions that are based on feelings and not supported by any data.

 Its also obvious that most have no desire to actual read anything and learn and that it’s okay to express opinions and tney shouldn’t be challenged .

 

im out 

[GolfSpy AFG]

On 7/26/2024 at 10:20 PM, Alan Stewart said:

Just updated my report on my round from yesterday to add today's round on the same course.

On-course results are looking pretty strong so far.

Probably will head back to Trackman bay for A vs B testing next week.

So Alan, as an "other" UB guy...how is it comparing to your gamer in terms of overall shot shape?  Your driving accuracy pic from your intro showed 22%/48%/30% for Left Miss/Fairway/Right Miss. Seeing the same thing and the same basic shot shape you normally play?

In my case I did not, at all, so just wondering what your experience has been.  And, making a few setup adjustments based on some lessons I'm taking, so there's the whole indian vs the arrow thing too.

[WaffleHouseTour]

So... I really don't want to open another conversation about spin, shafts spinning, etc...  but because I was thinking about trying to reduce my spin... and because I have been doing a better job closing the face...

I dialed down the loft on my driver today.  The stock loft is 10.5*.  I've had it raised to 12.5* to increase my launch and fight the fade.  Now... before I get to the numbers - I also close that club face at address and that probably dials it back down.  

But today I hit a dozen balls at the 12.5* and then I dialed it back to the 10.5* and hit a dozen more.  I didn't lose much launch, I did reduce the spin an average of 1,100 rpms, and had a smidge better dispersion (blue dots below).  With this shaft, the UB, I've been closing the club face better and more often.  I think I can keep it here. 

Earlier today, on the course where it counts, I had a pretty good day with the driver.   10 shots in the fairway, 2 left but not in trouble and 1 right but not in trouble.  Shot an 81 with a double - it was my iron play that did me in all morning, but that's for another time.  UBy performed well. 

 

The 12.5*

The 10.5*

[GolfSpy AFG]

27 minutes ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

So... I really don't want to open another conversation about spin, shafts spinning, etc...  but because I was thinking about trying to reduce my spin... and because I have been doing a better job closing the face...

I dialed down the loft on my driver today.  The stock loft is 10.5*.  I've had it raised to 12.5* to increase my launch and fight the fade.  Now... before I get to the numbers - I also close that club face at address and that probably dials it back down.  

But today I hit a dozen balls at the 12.5* and then I dialed it back to the 10.5* and hit a dozen more.  I didn't lose much launch, I did reduce the spin an average of 1,100 rpms, and had a smidge better dispersion (blue dots below).  With this shaft, the UB, I've been closing the club face better and more often.  I think I can keep it here. 

Earlier today, on the course where it counts, I had a pretty good day with the driver.   10 shots in the fairway, 2 left but not in trouble and 1 right but not in trouble.  Shot an 81 with a double - it was my iron play that did me in all morning, but that's for another time.  UBy performed well. 

 

The 12.5*

The 10.5*

I'll ask you the same question I posed to Alan...with the UB are you seeing the same basic shot shape off the tee as you were getting from your gamer?  Just comparing experiences among us UBers...

[Alan Stewart]

Report: 7/31 and 8/2 Rounds

Obligatory visual from my range session on Tuesday.  Hit it well on the range, centered in the face

2 rounds this week were not my best driving rounds but here are the deets:

Wednesday, course was drier and I did not take advantage of it.  248.5 yards average on 12 drives, 285 longest, 7/12 fairways hit.

Friday, 2+ inches of rain overnight. 243.6 yards average, 274 longest, 8/12 fairways hit.

I was not making good, consistent swings, but driver did not hurt me this week. 

Overall, shaft feel is good and I have gotten comfortable with the bend profile.  As you can see from the image above, I am comfortable putting some effort into this shaft.

I am looking forward to the Trackman session with my original HZRDUS this coming week so I can start to wrap up the review and score the Graphite Design Tour AD UB S shaft.

[Alan Stewart]

17 hours ago, GolfSpy AFG said:

So Alan, as an "other" UB guy...how is it comparing to your gamer in terms of overall shot shape?  Your driving accuracy pic from your intro showed 22%/48%/30% for Left Miss/Fairway/Right Miss. Seeing the same thing and the same basic shot shape you normally play?

In my case I did not, at all, so just wondering what your experience has been.  And, making a few setup adjustments based on some lessons I'm taking, so there's the whole indian vs the arrow thing too.

@GolfSpy AFG I was going to show this in my wrapup next week but here is the preview:

Now this does include the couple of non-driver tee shots, but so did the earlier graphic.

Overall, my shot shape has not changed much.  Still a fade, but hitting more fairways as the right miss has gone down.  Left misses seem really about the same, with the difference a few more caught the left edge of the fairway instead of just hopping into the close rough.  Driver loft is now set 1 degree lower to keep ball height similar between the 2 shafts.

As you pointed out, it may be more the mechanic than the tool, as I have been practicing a decent amount and my swing feels better overall.  I will be in the Trackman bay this coming week and will post/overlay the stats and dispersion circles.  I am very curious myself to see this outcome.  I wonder if moving the setting 1 degree down on my old shaft will help its dispersion as well.  And since I am pretty sensitive to bend profiles, I want to see how the HZRDUS Blue feels/swings now.

Stay tuned sports fans, results to come.

[KC Golf]

16 hours ago, WaffleHouseTour said:

So... I really don't want to open another conversation about spin, shafts spinning, etc...  but because I was thinking about trying to reduce my spin... and because I have been doing a better job closing the face...

I dialed down the loft on my driver today.  The stock loft is 10.5*.  I've had it raised to 12.5* to increase my launch and fight the fade.  Now... before I get to the numbers - I also close that club face at address and that probably dials it back down.  

But today I hit a dozen balls at the 12.5* and then I dialed it back to the 10.5* and hit a dozen more.  I didn't lose much launch, I did reduce the spin an average of 1,100 rpms, and had a smidge better dispersion (blue dots below).  With this shaft, the UB, I've been closing the club face better and more often.  I think I can keep it here. 

Earlier today, on the course where it counts, I had a pretty good day with the driver.   10 shots in the fairway, 2 left but not in trouble and 1 right but not in trouble.  Shot an 81 with a double - it was my iron play that did me in all morning, but that's for another time.  UBy performed well. 

 

The 12.5*

The 10.5*

This is really interesting data.  Thanks for sharing.  

May be the fitters / experts can chime in, but is this a case where teeing it up a little higher potentially leads to lower in the face, center strike hits?  I assume this leads to better launch and spin numbers?  Just curious.

[DukeStKing]

3 hours ago, KC Golf said:

This is really interesting data.  Thanks for sharing.  

May be the fitters / experts can chime in, but is this a case where teeing it up a little higher potentially leads to lower in the face, center strike hits?  I assume this leads to better launch and spin numbers?  Just curious.

Also, from the picture, you are really on your toes at contact, which is great for raising your attack angle and launch. Is that something you’ve been working on too? 

[WaffleHouseTour]

20 hours ago, GolfSpy AFG said:

I'll ask you the same question I posed to Alan...with the UB are you seeing the same basic shot shape off the tee as you were getting from your gamer?  Just comparing experiences among us UBers...

Am I seeing the same basic shot shape?

As I have an aggressive transition and an out to in swing with a left path, yes, I’m seeing the same shot shape.  However, I think dispersion is tighter with the UB than my old shaft.   Because of my swing mechanics I’m going to hit some pulls, straights, and fades - but that’s better than pull hooks and slices…

My original Hzrdous - my last three practice sessions in June before the test started

 

The UB last three practice sessions starting with this morning

My desire is to keep it within a thirty yard lane, fifteen yards either side of the center line.  And of course be longer.  Today’s practice thirteen of the fifteen balls stayed in that lane. And if I adjusted my target just a bit efourteen of them would have. Just one stinker. 

I haven’t really gained any distance, but if I’ve tightened up the dispersion you won’t hear any complaints from me.  
 

The more I hit this, I think the better I get with it.

[GolfSpy_BNG]

Not a good weekend for the TD Max/VF/Me combo. Hit just 1 fairway today and not many more yesterday.  I want off the planet bad and scrambled very well today the couple times I put myself in jail. 
 

The honeymoon period has ended for sure.  Hoping to get 2 more rounds in next weekend before putting the final touches on the review.  
 

Can’t wait to see everyone’s final thoughts. 

[WaffleHouseTour]

Two practice sessions today. Hit my 30 yard wide fairway 9 of 12 times in the morning; and 17 of 24 times this afternoon. This afternoon my hands were so slippery, just melting on the practice pad in the heat and the sun, so giving myself a break.  Hit well over 100 balls today so may have over done it - working on some things with my irons and my Skillest coach and some elastic bands to keep my lead knee from collapsing (stuff not pertinent here.. other than to say I was tired and melting)

 

Work is going to get in the way of on the course testing this week.  Though I do have a round scheduled at Landmand on Wednesday, and at my home course on Thursday. Friday is a hit and giggle outing so I won’t get any stats there. On the weekend I hope to play with my daughter somewhere in Illinois.  So maybe I will get some more on course experience with UBy over the next seven days…. Will be looking for those little up arrows in the Arccos shots gained - hopefully - as that’s the real test.

Edited August 4 by WaffleHouseTour

[pete1276]

23 hours ago, GolfSpy_BNG said:

The honeymoon period has ended for sure

I have been tracking Izzy for a while now with Arccos, and I would have to concur that the Honeymoon phase is over.  The numbers don't lie, as they say.  I'll be submitting my final review later this week and I'll be interested to see where everyone else is with their reviews.

Edited August 5 by pete1276

[Glennyboy]

On 8/1/2024 at 2:59 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

I know it doesn’t spin or launch. Callaway and some others have done this testing on a robot and shown that lightweight ladies shafts and all the way to xxx stiff long drive shafts don’t have any big change in launch or spin from each other.

In general for the most part what you have been saying about the shaft have been true with sources from rebuttable people that know their stuff.

However you should not use this to argue your point. That robot that callaway used and many others used is mainly to test club heads and not shafts? Why? Because it swing the club attached to the end of lever which means it has no hinge. So if you did see a change from changing shafts then you will have real issues haha.

But how do you think a shaft company delineates a range of shafts being low, mid, and high launch/spin? Some do use robots but different ones that actually has wrist hinge and have levers like humans. When they do put a low launch/spin shaft and compare it their high launch/spin shaft there is a difference. Cool clubs have one of these robots if you have seen their reviews and they call it the S3 or whatever they named it. 

Yes they have to surely have it a certain higher speed and certain parameters of the robot to swing a certain way consistently to merit change like you previously mentioned. But just saying using that context as an example is a moot one. 

[GolfSpy AFG]

On 8/3/2024 at 3:42 PM, WaffleHouseTour said:

Am I seeing the same basic shot shape?

As I have an aggressive transition and an out to in swing with a left path, yes, I’m seeing the same shot shape.  However, I think dispersion is tighter with the UB than my old shaft.   Because of my swing mechanics I’m going to hit some pulls, straights, and fades - but that’s better than pull hooks and slices…

My original Hzrdous - my last three practice sessions in June before the test started

 

The UB last three practice sessions starting with this morning

My desire is to keep it within a thirty yard lane, fifteen yards either side of the center line.  And of course be longer.  Today’s practice thirteen of the fifteen balls stayed in that lane. And if I adjusted my target just a bit efourteen of them would have. Just one stinker. 

I haven’t really gained any distance, but if I’ve tightened up the dispersion you won’t hear any complaints from me.  
 

The more I hit this, I think the better I get with it.

Interesting. Wish I had had a better understanding of why the UB and I haven't gotten along as much as others. I definitely think I overcomplicated this one by going with a completely different head as well; perhaps it's just the PING I don't get along with. Althought it's what the TrueFit system said was ideal for me, so it's not like I did it completely blind...

[Josh Parker]

30 minutes ago, GolfSpy AFG said:

Interesting. Wish I had had a better understanding of why the UB and I haven't gotten along as much as others. I definitely think I overcomplicated this one by going with a completely different head as well; perhaps it's just the PING I don't get along with. Althought it's what the TrueFit system said was ideal for me, so it's not like I did it completely blind...

I saw a video on a comparison between the two shafts (ventus blue and UB) and the guy mentioned the handle on the UB feeling more stiff which could explain why you are seeing a push right?  The Ventus timing may just have you closing the club face that much faster because of the profile than with the UB.  

I know when I tried the UB it seemed more "boardy" than the ventus.  

Just a thought...