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4 minutes ago, gobama84 said:

So really it is not how well your team is, it is just how good they are against the 10 teams you are competing against that week. I went 7-3 this week, so against 10 different teams I may have gone 3-7 or maybe 10-0. Why not compete against all teams.  Seems more fair in the long run.

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That is what we did last year; as stated in the Fantasy thread Fantrax couldn't support that format with the number of teams we have in the league.  

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I just disagree.  Because neither his playing partners, caddies, or the volunteer saw the ball bounce, he had reason to suspect that the ball was embedded.  So he first squats down to take a close loo

CBS we get it. Why arent we watching golf and instead watching interviews with 6 different people talking about yesterday when the rules were followed. Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile ap

Great point.  We are all so perfect that we don’t make mistakes.  Yes, he has made some and judgment calls over the years... How many of you sped on your way to work last week, or used a crosswal

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The fact that most of this thread is a discussion about P Reed’s* embedded ball on Saturday is it’s own commentary on P Reed*.
 

The “IDGAF what anyone thinks” clown invites controversy every single time he plays in a tournament. 
 

My only experience seeing P Reed in person was at a Monday practice round at the Masters in 2016. We saw a ton of players that day and every one of them was in a threesome playing their way around the course. 99% of the players were done with their practice round by 4:00 pm. 
 

We were making our way towards the exit at the end of the day and decided to sit and rest for a minute in the grandstands by the 5th green. All the players had gone through and we figured that was it, but about 10 minutes later here comes a solo player with his caddie, making his way to the fifth green. It was P Reed all by himself. Both my brother and I thought it was both odd and sad that this guy played alone at the very end of the day when there were no other players and 99% of “patrons” had already left. 
 

I say all of this to say that at the end of the day, whether you argue for or against what P Reed did right or wrong with his embedded ball, the dude may win 50 tournaments and 5 majors before he hangs it up. But his legacy will be that no one will care what he did in golf history and he’ll be old and alone when he dies with zero friends and a mantle full of worthless trophies that he wouldn’t be able to pawn for 5 cents on ebay, because no one wants anything to do with a lifelong cheater and thief.  Frankly, maybe he’ll go out like Clifford Roberts did. 

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53 minutes ago, Mr. 82 said:

his legacy will be that no one will care what he did in golf history and he’ll be old and alone when he dies with zero friends and a mantle full of worthless trophies that he wouldn’t be able to pawn for 5 cents on ebay, because no one wants anything to do with a lifelong cheater and thief

Yeah that's exactly right!

 

I think it's really sad that so many people on these forums are 'on his side' on this discussion because they want to appear intelligent or on the level of the PGA rules officials. Reed very obviously pulled a fast one over on them, and by choosing to ignore basic facts, you're letting him pull a fast one on you too. He is an incredible golfer and a terrible person.

 

What we try to avoid as a community is cheating, but the cardinal sin is cheating and having it be accepted, which is exactly what happened here. I am 100% that this is having an impact on the way that thousands of people think about the game. "If he can get away with it, why can't I?" "Maybe cheating isn't such a big deal after all?" "If everyone else is doing it, I'm doing it too!"

 

Reed won the tournament today, and seems like he would have won without moving the ball in question, but golf as a whole absolutely lost.

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No one is on his side to "appear intelligent." Anyone in here defending the situation is making a judgment based on the actual facts available to us. There is absolutely no hard evidence to prove Reed cheated in that situation. None. It's all speculation because of his reputation. That might be enough for you to condemn him for cheating on Saturday but it's not enough for me and for the others who've spoken up in defense of the ruling made. It has nothing to do with wanting to "appear intelligent" but wanting actual evidence of malfeasance before calling it out as such.

I'm not much of a Patrick Reed fan. I respect his ability to play golf at an extremely high level but that's about it. But unless you can prove with concrete evidence that he cheated on Saturday, I will continue to agree with the ruling that was made on the day.

Yeah that's exactly right!
 
I think it's really sad that so many people on these forums are 'on his side' on this discussion because they want to appear intelligent or on the level of the PGA rules officials. Reed very obviously pulled a fast one over on them, and by choosing to ignore basic facts, you're letting him pull a fast one on you too. He is an incredible golfer and a terrible person.
 
What we try to avoid as a community is cheating, but the cardinal sin is cheating and having it be accepted, which is exactly what happened here. I am 100% that this is having an impact on the way that thousands of people think about the game. "If he can get away with it, why can't I?" "Maybe cheating isn't such a big deal after all?" "If everyone else is doing it, I'm doing it too!"
 
Reed won the tournament today, and seems like he would have won without moving the ball in question, but golf as a whole absolutely lost.


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1 hour ago, Hamachi Style said:

Yeah that's exactly right!

 

I think it's really sad that so many people on these forums are 'on his side' on this discussion because they want to appear intelligent or on the level of the PGA rules officials. Reed very obviously pulled a fast one over on them, and by choosing to ignore basic facts, you're letting him pull a fast one on you too. He is an incredible golfer and a terrible person.

 

What we try to avoid as a community is cheating, but the cardinal sin is cheating and having it be accepted, which is exactly what happened here. I am 100% that this is having an impact on the way that thousands of people think about the game. "If he can get away with it, why can't I?" "Maybe cheating isn't such a big deal after all?" "If everyone else is doing it, I'm doing it too!"

 

Reed won the tournament today, and seems like he would have won without moving the ball in question, but golf as a whole absolutely lost.

I'm the least amount of a Reed fan as anyone could be, but no one is trying to appear smarter than anyone else. @DaveP043 knows the rules and explained the situation according to them and just because it's not favorable to my opinion doesn't discredit what he said or make him a Patrick Reed fanboy. I still think, with Reed's history, he shouldn't have moved his ball first, palmed it, etc. but as I mentioned I'm obviously biased and not going to give him any benefit of the doubt, ever.

He played better than everyone else, and still would've won if he was given a penalty stroke, or 3, so moot point on to the next one.

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2 hours ago, Mr. 82 said:

The fact that most of this thread is a discussion about P Reed’s* embedded ball on Saturday is it’s own commentary on P Reed*.
 

The “IDGAF what anyone thinks” clown invites controversy every single time he plays in a tournament. 
 

My only experience seeing P Reed in person was at a Monday practice round at the Masters in 2016. We saw a ton of players that day and every one of them was in a threesome playing their way around the course. 99% of the players were done with their practice round by 4:00 pm. 
 

We were making our way towards the exit at the end of the day and decided to sit and rest for a minute in the grandstands by the 5th green. All the players had gone through and we figured that was it, but about 10 minutes later here comes a solo player with his caddie, making his way to the fifth green. It was P Reed all by himself. Both my brother and I thought it was both odd and sad that this guy played alone at the very end of the day when there were no other players and 99% of “patrons” had already left. 
 

I say all of this to say that at the end of the day, whether you argue for or against what P Reed did right or wrong with his embedded ball, the dude may win 50 tournaments and 5 majors before he hangs it up. But his legacy will be that no one will care what he did in golf history and he’ll be old and alone when he dies with zero friends and a mantle full of worthless trophies that he wouldn’t be able to pawn for 5 cents on ebay, because no one wants anything to do with a lifelong cheater and thief.  Frankly, maybe he’ll go out like Clifford Roberts did. 

This post, especially the last sentence is sad. It seems to me you’re putting too much effort into being hateful. I’ve read your posts, you are better than this

As for Reed? The guy is well on his way to a HOF career, seems to have a great marriage, and probably has plenty of friends outside of golf. Lots of great athletes over the years cared less what their teammates or opponents thought of them. Michael Jordan comes to mind, as does Tiger Woods.

As for all the harping on Reed “skirting” the rules yesterday, Rory says hello. Let’s not even get into what Tiger got away with it for years.

 

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7 hours ago, Hamachi Style said:

Reed very obviously pulled a fast one over on them, and by choosing to ignore basic facts, you're letting him pull a fast one on you too.

I'd like to understand which "facts" I'm ignoring.  I've watched the videos a bunch of times, and I believe Reed followed the Rules all along.  I've read allegations that Reed pushed down his ball, or that he dug around with his fingers, but the video doesn't show that.  I'm not saying its impossible, but you simply can't tell for sure.  I've read that he "palmed" the ball, but even that isn't clear.  Its completely possible to carry a ball with thumb and finger, and still cup it so its not clearly visible.  I'd suggest that's really a more natural position for your hand, fingers curled slightly instead of straight out.  Again, he could have wiped the ball in his palm, but you can't tell for sure, its not a "fact".  I've read that its impossible to a ball to embed on the bounce, yet the Rules Official determined that the ball was indeed embedded. 

So please, what "facts" am I ignoring?

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For everyone jumping REED’S case, RORY DID, literally, THE EXACT SAME THING! Ball bounced, picked it up to see if it was embedded, took relief. Same tournament, same exact circumstances. Can’t wait to see everyone call Rory a cheater now. Ready? Go!

Boom.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/farmers-insurance-open-why-rory-mcilroy-is-now-part-of-the-patrick-reed-rules-flap-and-how-he-helps-reed-cause/amp?__twitter_impression=true

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14 hours ago, Rickp said:


It’s all about himemoji12.pngemoji33.png
Reed stayed on Track, everyone else collapsed.


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The par in the middle of the back nine where Reed was behind a tree, punched it up the fairway short and pitched it to 2 feet was brilliant.  Many others would have tried it hit some sort of sweeping hook from there and put it in a spot that might have been a very difficult up and down.  IMO that was the turning point of the tournament.  Everyone else was falling apart on the back nine.

 

That's the story, not a trumped up rules thing - like it or not the rules have changed, fortunately the guys doing it for a living seem to have kept up with those changes.  

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I've been a bit hesitant to weigh in on, but why not. I am not a PReed fan admittedly, however that simply means there is no way I will trade for, draft or pick up him on my MGS Fantasy golf team. He is a great talent in the sport of golf and without question has a hazy history of incidents similar. Yes, I didn't love the series of events, but it has been explained that technically he did not do anything wrong. Maybe the sequence was off and the way the camera was blocked when he initially got to the ball isn't a good look and I don't know if he deserves the benefit of the doubt, but as the officials stated it was technically done by the book. I know it didn't look good and the interaction with the onsite official was iffy and I do not want to defend him because we all clearly saw the ball bounce... and pretty high I will admit. However based off the information he had and so on I guess it was correct. Either way we saw similar situation with Rory and one could argue had Reed not called the official in that it may have been better, but I do believe that if situations like this keep arising with him eventually they will catch up to him, hopefully he turns a corner and is able to be more liked. As I said he is insanely talented at the game of golf.

The fact we could see the ball bounce made it that much worse and there is a whole laundry list of talking points we could unpack there. 


I think maybe what I keep thinking about is it sucks when there are incidents like this that players so called get away with and are not penalized and then you have DJ way back loosing a major because he grounded his club way back. The rules don't always seem fair and I do hope for Reeds sake that no more of these incidents occur so the focus can shift to his game and not the shadiness of his on course actions. Again I am not a fan of his actions or the personality he gives off, but like to see good golf shots and frankly when he isn't playing with Tiger he has provided us with some pretty stunning and memorable golf. 

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1 hour ago, PMookie said:

For everyone jumping REED’S case, RORY DID, literally, THE EXACT SAME THING! Ball bounced, picked it up to see if it was embedded, took relief. Same tournament, same exact circumstances. Can’t wait to see everyone call Rory a cheater now. Ready? Go!

Boom.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/farmers-insurance-open-why-rory-mcilroy-is-now-part-of-the-patrick-reed-rules-flap-and-how-he-helps-reed-cause/amp?__twitter_impression=true

According to the rule book, neither cheated. However, the circumstances were not the same.

If Reed had done what Rory did, I doubt seriously if there'd be much discussion about it. Reed DID NOT do what Rory did however. 

Rory's drop: As Rory approaches his ball it appears as though it is embedded. He alerts his playing competitor, marks the ball, lifts it, and asks for clarification regarding relief - one club length. Rory without hesitation, drops the ball mere inches from where he marked it and goes on about his business.

The rules clearly allow him to operate under what HE knows and believes to be true, he did not ask for information from outside sources, he never saw a replay - until well after the fact I'm sure.

Reed's drop: Before Reed can even see the lie he asks the volunteer if it bounced. He alerts his competitor, marks the ball, and lifts it. Here is where things are VASTLY DIFFERENT. When Reed lifts the ball, he continues to hold it in his HAND while asking for an official and poking around the supposed pitch mark.

The ball can be seen in his hand at the 26-second mark of the video linked below - immediately after he calls for an official and it is clear by the evidence that he actually picked the ball up sometime before that. Reed then spends the next 8-10 seconds standing over the pitch mark and feeling around - doing who knows what to the original lie. The ball remains in his hand - in the palm of his hand - until the 46-second mark when he places it some 5-ish feet away.

 

 

Then the official comes over and is asked to rule on a lie without a golf ball PRESENT which completely negates the point! Official agrees with Reed based on the information at hand which may or may not have been altered at this point - Reed's reputation really calls that into question BTW. Reed is provided relief and uses a full club-length to determine the most advantageous drop - well within his rights according to the rules.

I can't argue with the rules for an embedded ball, but I will absolutely argue about Reed's intentions and behavior regarding this particular situation. He's earned it. 

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1 hour ago, PMookie said:

For everyone jumping REED’S case, RORY DID, literally, THE EXACT SAME THING! Ball bounced, picked it up to see if it was embedded, took relief. Same tournament, same exact circumstances. Can’t wait to see everyone call Rory a cheater now. Ready? Go!

Boom.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/farmers-insurance-open-why-rory-mcilroy-is-now-part-of-the-patrick-reed-rules-flap-and-how-he-helps-reed-cause/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Reed is a complex individual....but he's got game for days and nobody can argue with that. Dude can flat out play.
If you're interested in some backstory I found this pretty good.
https://tobaccoroadblues.com/2015/01/30/the-villain-patrick-reed/

 

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8 hours ago, FrogginBullfish said:

That is a really messed up thing to say.

"Messed up" is putting it far too politely. I am embarrassed that an MGS member would somehow think that was an appropriate thing to post here. 

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1 hour ago, PMookie said:

For everyone jumping REED’S case, RORY DID, literally, THE EXACT SAME THING! Ball bounced, picked it up to see if it was embedded, took relief. Same tournament, same exact circumstances. Can’t wait to see everyone call Rory a cheater now. Ready? Go!

Boom.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/farmers-insurance-open-why-rory-mcilroy-is-now-part-of-the-patrick-reed-rules-flap-and-how-he-helps-reed-cause/amp?__twitter_impression=true

I was going to post this - thanks. Even the broadcast team kept trying to poke at the topic after the rules officials weighed in.  Then, in his post event interview, someone in the press felt the need to pick the scab again... without mentioning the parallel with Rory (for obvious reasons). Double standards are indeed alive and well 🙄.  

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Can you guys not tell the difference between a bounce forward and a bounce in place? Too much visual information to take in?

 

If Reed's ball bounced forward (did not embed, impossible, Reed himself said so, not that it matters), then how did the 'pitch mark' get there?

 

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure this one out.

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I think the issue that a lot of people have with Reed is his history. He had allegations against him at both Colleges he attended and has had several situations come up on the PGA tour. Where there is smoke, usually there is fire. All of these can't be oops, I didn't do that.

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...sad thing is the guy doesn't have to cheat to win. he's good enough to do it without causing any controversy.

he just seems to have this enormous chip on his shoulder that he can't let go of.

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18 minutes ago, Hamachi Style said:

Can you guys not tell the difference between a bounce forward and a bounce in place? Too much visual information to take in?

If Reed's ball bounced forward (did not embed, impossible, Reed himself said so, not that it matters), then how did the 'pitch mark' get there?

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure this one out.

The same might be asked of Rory's ball.  I've seen video that seems to refute the idea that Rory's ball ended up in its original pitchmark, it appears to land a few feet away.  It is the bias of the viewer that says one guy cheated while the other guy was legitimately embedded.

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Everyone can tell the difference between a bounce forward and a bounce in place. There's no need to try to insult people's intelligence because we've come to a different conclusion than you.

Reed's clearly bounced forward. No one can argue it didn't based on the video evidence. Rory's may have bounced in place but it may not have. The video angle is not conclusive enough to make a concrete statement either way.

That being said there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Reed, or even Rory, manipulated the ground themselves to obtain free relief. It is entirely possible that, on a soft golf course, both balls ended up in pitch-marks made by other players but given the circumstances it was reasonable for both Reed and Rory to assume the balls were embedded in their own pitch-mark. The rules are pretty clear on this.

To suggest either cheated in their respective situations is to engage in speculation with zero concrete evidence. And in Reed's case it is solely based on his reputation.

So unless you can prove definitively that Reed cheated, I suggest we all move on from this discussion.

Can you guys not tell the difference between a bounce forward and a bounce in place? Too much visual information to take in?
 
If Reed's ball bounced forward (did not embed, impossible, Reed himself said so, not that it matters), then how did the 'pitch mark' get there?
 
It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure this one out.
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