Arm Lock Putting Should Be Illegal

[MissionMan]

3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Prior to the rule change, players using the "broomstick" did anchor their top hand against their chest.  When that was made illegal, these guys learned to use their preferred putter without anchoring.  That's a workaround, in my book, and I'm fine with it.

Sorry, I thought you meant armlocks were a work around. Agree, broomstick putter did require changes but as I mentioned, the primary reason for the rules changing was actually belly putters

[NM01]

2 hours ago, MissionMan said:

Sorry, I thought you meant armlocks were a work around. Agree, broomstick putter did require changes but as I mentioned, the primary reason for the rules changing was actually belly putters

It was both. Adam Scott had lots of success anchoring as well. Finished second at the Open with the anchored putter.

[MissionMan]

6 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It was both. Adam Scott had lots of success anchoring as well. Finished second at the Open with the anchored putter.

Not really. People remember the last thing that happened and it sticks in their mind. 

The USGA and R&A announce a proposal to ban anchored strokes on Nov. 28, 2012, coming into effect from 2016. It was only ratified after Adam Scotts won but it had already been announced. Adam Scott won in April 2013. 

At the point when the announcement was made, three people had already won majors before him with belly putters, and not one was a broom. The announcement was made straight after the third. 

Keegan Bradley was the first with a belly putter.

Web Simpson was the second also with a belly putter

Ernie Els was the third to win a major with a belly putter (that’s the irony of the broomstick discussions a lot of the time, most people remember adam got second here and forget a Ernie got a first with a belly putter)

30% of the PGA were using long or belly putters at the time which is why it was considered such a big impact. 

 

Edited July 20 by MissionMan

[cnosil]

55 minutes ago, MissionMan said:

 

Keegan Bradley was the first with a belly putter.

Web Simpson was the second also with a belly putter

Ernie Els was the third to win a major with a belly putter (that’s the irony of the broomstick discussions a lot of the time, most people remember adam got second here and forget a Ernie got a first with a belly putter)

30% of the PGA were using long or belly putters at the time which is why it was considered such a big impact. 

 

Why does it being a Major make a difference?   These types of putters were in use for a long time and won events.

 

Leo Diegel anchored a putter to his belly in 1924.  

Phil Rogers won twice with a belly putter in 1966

Charlie Owens won twice in 1983 with a broomstick anchored to his sternum.

Johnny Miller won on 1986 using an armlock putter.  

1991 Rocco was first PGA Tour winner with putter anchored to sternun.

2000 Paul Azinger wins with belly putter.  

https://www.nbcsports.com/golf/news/how-it-all-began-history-long-putter

[MissionMan]

5 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Why does it being a Major make a difference?   These types of putters were in use for a long time and won events.

 

Leo Diegel anchored a putter to his belly in 1924.  

Phil Rogers won twice with a belly putter in 1966

Charlie Owens won twice in 1983 with a broomstick anchored to his sternum.

Johnny Miller won on 1986 using an armlock putter.  

1991 Rocco was first PGA Tour winner with putter anchored to sternun.

2000 Paul Azinger wins with belly putter.  

https://www.nbcsports.com/golf/news/how-it-all-began-history-long-

The majors were always the big turning points because of the prestige attached to them. Vijay won a lot with a belly putter, it was only when the majors came into play that it started getting people’s attention. 

[NM01]

1 hour ago, MissionMan said:

Not really. People remember the last thing that happened and it sticks in their mind. 

The USGA and R&A announce a proposal to ban anchored strokes on Nov. 28, 2012, coming into effect from 2016. It was only ratified after Adam Scotts won but it had already been announced. Adam Scott won in April 2013. 

At the point when the announcement was made, three people had already won majors before him with belly putters, and not one was a broom. The announcement was made straight after the third. 

Keegan Bradley was the first with a belly putter.

Web Simpson was the second also with a belly putter

Ernie Els was the third to win a major with a belly putter (that’s the irony of the broomstick discussions a lot of the time, most people remember adam got second here and forget a Ernie got a first with a belly putter)

30% of the PGA were using long or belly putters at the time which is why it was considered such a big impact. 

 

Sure okay 

[cnosil]

4 minutes ago, MissionMan said:

The majors were always the big turning points because of the prestige attached to them. Vijay won a lot with a belly putter, it was only when the majors came into play that it started getting people’s attention. 

Things in golf constantly change.  Majors should not be a deciding factor if something is changed.  

[MissionMan]

2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Things in golf constantly change.  Majors should not be a deciding factor if something is changed.  

If you look at the article you posted, belly putters had a large number of wins over the years but nothing occurred. It was only when 3 majors were won that things changed. You could argue causation vs correlation, but given the history with nothing occurring, you’d have to think that the majors had a big influence on the decision.

[cnosil]

Just now, MissionMan said:

If you look at the article you posted, belly putters had a large number of wins over the years but nothing occurred. It was only when 3 majors were won that things changed. You could argue causation vs correlation, but given the history with nothing occurring, you’d have to think that the majors had a big influence on the decision.

Again, ridiculous to decided on rules based on what tournaments are won using a piece of equipment.  Maybe we should ban mallets because they win majors. 

[MissionMan]

7 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Again, ridiculous to decided on rules based on what tournaments are won using a piece of equipment.  Maybe we should ban mallets because they win majors. 

I’m not agreeing with it. I’m just saying that’s what it looked like. The prestige attached to the jacket has always been big.

[d.lama]

On 7/13/2024 at 5:30 PM, Josh Parker said:

Should bowlers who bowl with no finger holes be banned?  Should two handed bowlers be allowed?

As a person who was a more competitive bowler in my younger years - #1 Yes and #2 No. I also have opinions about the super-modern materials that end up performing the same way regardless of oil layout and condition.

[Josh Parker]

17 minutes ago, d.lama said:

As a person who was a more competitive bowler in my younger years - #1 Yes and #2 No. I also have opinions about the super-modern materials that end up performing the same way regardless of oil layout and condition.

Well, no one can say you aren't consistent. 

[NM01]

1 hour ago, MissionMan said:

If you look at the article you posted, belly putters had a large number of wins over the years but nothing occurred. It was only when 3 majors were won that things changed. You could argue causation vs correlation, but given the history with nothing occurring, you’d have to think that the majors had a big influence on the decision.

It was anchoring in general that the ruling bodies and some fans didn’t like. Doesn’t matter what was in most use, it was the concept of anchoring. People are still complaining about langer and saying he’s anchoring, and the armlock style.

Its optics and it was the general success of those anchoring including the makers that riled people up 

[TAGolf13]

On 4/17/2021 at 3:31 PM, excourse said:

Putters should be unregulated IMHO. Broomstick, belly or arm lock who cares? If any of these were the secret sauce everyone would be using them. Same goes for putting styles, let's let the croquet style putters do their thing. Between your legs? Go for it. If every type and style of putter were allowed, I'd wager scores wouldn't change a bit.
The only caveat would be that no club longer than the driver be used to measure drops to eliminate the broomstick cheaters.

Wishon 730CL, Driver thru SW
Odyssey stroke lab CS mallet putter.
"World's most forgiving set for old farts"
 

I'm totally with you on this! All putters and putting styles are available to all players. If you think armlock is an advantage, then you're do it. As long as all forms of putters and putting styles are available to all players, it is an even playing field. I don't see him calling for a particular style of driving to be banned because some guys are great at driving the ball. Uh, so and so is driving the ball too well, so we need to ban that style of driving? C'mon Horschel, do what you do and let other players do what they do. If you can't beat em, join em.

[chris51]

As a person who owned a arm lock putter. I can tell you it's harder then it looks my putting was worst with arm lock putter then a traditional putter I went back to my traditional putter and my score has improved tremendously.  I think it just depends on preference and how u adapt to your putter and if it feels comfortable. sometimes i felt like my arms were to lock up. No cheating involved just all skill n how comfortable somebody feels with putter in hand or arm. 

[nicciD10]

I have recently bought an arm lock putter and had it for about a month and my putting doesn’t seem to be getting better! Is there any tips on how to practice with it ?

[cnosil]

4 hours ago, nicciD10 said:

I have recently bought an arm lock putter and had it for about a month and my putting doesn’t seem to be getting better! Is there any tips on how to practice with it ?

You practice the same way you do with any other putter.  You work on aim, stroke, and touch.  

[nicciD10]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

You practice the same way you do with any other putter.  You work on aim, stroke, and touch.  

Av been trying but can’t seem to get anything to click and be consistent 

[MissionMan]

6 minutes ago, nicciD10 said:

Av been trying but can’t seem to get anything to click and be consistent 

How are you holding it?

[cnosil]

6 minutes ago, nicciD10 said:

Av been trying but can’t seem to get anything to click and be consistent 

Probably because the armlock putter is a completely different feel and look than standard putters at setup.    What specifically isn’t clicking?

[nicciD10]

12 minutes ago, MissionMan said:

How are you holding it?

But end is just below my elbow with my conventional grip

11 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Probably because the armlock putter is a completely different feel and look than standard putters at setup.    What specifically isn’t clicking?

Stroke just doesn’t feel smooth at all

[cnosil]

23 minutes ago, nicciD10 said:

Stroke just doesn’t feel smooth at all

Could just be that armlock isn’t for you or the configuration isn’t correct for stroke needs.   I’d say just hit 5ish footers and try to build the feel for the stroke.  Your not in the drills for improvement phase, your just trying to build a functional stroke.  

[chisag]

8 hours ago, nicciD10 said:

I have recently bought an arm lock putter and had it for about a month and my putting doesn’t seem to be getting better! Is there any tips on how to practice with it ?

 

... I guess the bigger question is why did you go to an arm putter? Did you have the yips? Flip through impact? Some other issue? It is obviously more restrictive which most wouldn't like or need unless they were trying to overcome something in a traditional grip and stroke that a restrictive putter/stroke would negate. 

[Shapotomous]

3 hours ago, nicciD10 said:

But end is just below my elbow with my conventional grip

Stroke just doesn’t feel smooth at all

Take a video hitting a few putts and post it here.

[nicciD10]

I am going to send it back as I have just had a shot of my old spider and it feels nice haha the reason a went for the arm lock was due to my inconsistency with strike , pace control and either leaving the face open or toeing it! But I have tried the jailbird cruiser and it’s a nice putter 

[MissionMan]

1 hour ago, nicciD10 said:

I am going to send it back as I have just had a shot of my old spider and it feels nice haha the reason a went for the arm lock was due to my inconsistency with strike , pace control and either leaving the face open or toeing it! But I have tried the jailbird cruiser and it’s a nice putter 

Most putters will feel nice in practice. It’s when you get in the course that the problems start. 

distance control is really a process of building muscle memory. It’s practicing a 20 foot putt until you know how to hit it 20/20 times. Strike is more something down the line of a putting mirror. 

I’d recommend spending some time with a yard stick and measure out the backswing for a 10 foot putt. Then a 20 should be half that distance further. Use the same acceleration for a 10 foot as a 20 foot. It’ll start off as technical putting but the feel will come pretty quickly. 

[chisag]

5 hours ago, MissionMan said:

distance control is really a process of building muscle memory. It’s practicing a 20 foot putt until you know how to hit it 20/20 times. Strike is more something down the line of a putting mirror. 

I’d recommend spending some time with a yard stick and measure out the backswing for a 10 foot putt. Then a 20 should be half that distance further. Use the same acceleration for a 10 foot as a 20 foot. It’ll start off as technical putting but the feel will come pretty quickly. 

 

... The may work for you but it doesn't for everyone. I never want to think of how far back I take my putter. There are so many variable on a 20 foot putt like uphill, downhill, sidehill, little break or massive break, straight but into the grain or down grain. All of those putts call for different distance control and I didn't even mention the wind, because strong enough it will certainly influence distance control. 

... So practicing the same 20 foot putt 20 times only gives you distance control for that exact 20 foot putt. I would rather see someone practicing putts for speed only to different distances, with breaks and without. I think this is much better for producing a feel for distance.

... All that said, I know there are technical folks and technical putters so if that works for you, that's great but it doesn't for most of the poor putters I taught.  

[MissionMan]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... The may work for you but it doesn't for everyone. I never want to think of how far back I take my putter. There are so many variable on a 20 foot putt like uphill, downhill, sidehill, little break or massive break, straight but into the grain or down grain. All of those putts call for different distance control and I didn't even mention the wind, because strong enough it will certainly influence distance control. 

... So practicing the same 20 foot putt 20 times only gives you distance control for that exact 20 foot putt. I would rather see someone practicing putts for speed only to different distances, with breaks and without. I think this is much better for producing a feel for distance.

... All that said, I know there are technical folks and technical putters so if that works for you, that's great but it doesn't for most of the poor putters I taught.  

Respectfully I disagree and I don’t think it’s technical putting. You practice with the yardstick for consistency and tempo so you know you’re taking it back the same distance every time. That’s why most mirrors have inch markings on them. The yard stick ensures that the acceleration is consistent, because that is where people have issues with distance control. If you have two completely different backswing lengths for a putt, it’s hard to keep it consistent. If the acceleration is changing from one swing to another, the distance is inconsistent. Feel is essentially muscle memory and it’s harder to get feel if you aren’t doing the same thing. Once you have a 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 etc, then work on the numbers in between. 

As for uphill/downhill etc, I think it’s easier learning to read what the slope is and what impact that will have. If you’re working without an understand of how the break applies, you’re guessing, and guesswork is a big problem if you move from one green speed to another. Your adaptability goes out the window. Thats why there are systems like aimpoint because it helps you understand the amount of break.

I also feel that poor putting is dependent on what the problem is. If it’s distance control, you teach distance control on flat, and then teach them how to apply it to slope. Break isn’t that hard because the distance becomes the arc (distance the putt travels rather than the line to the hole) of the putt, and you need to simple need to account for the slope. 

[chisag]

30 minutes ago, MissionMan said:

If you have two completely different backswing lengths for a putt, it’s hard to keep it consistent.

If the acceleration is changing from one swing to another, the distance is inconsistent.

 

... I won't go into your whole post, but I will address these two points. I have many different backswing lengths for the same distance putt. But I don't know what they are on a yardstick because I have never paid any attention to the length of my backstroke. Not once, not ever. Anymore than I measured how far back my arm went to throw a pass (football, not rugby ) And with a true pendulum stroke, my acceleration never changes because it is constant for the length of the putt given all the variables I encounter. 

... Obviously we view putting very differently. Mine is based on my personal experience working with many students and my own putting which is the strongest part of my game so it isn't theory, it is something I have taught and used myself for over 40 years. Again, if your method works for you, I tip my cap to you.  

[cnosil]

15 hours ago, MissionMan said:

Respectfully I disagree and I don’t think it’s technical putting.

You practice with the yardstick for consistency and tempo so you know you’re taking it back the same distance every time. That’s why most mirrors have inch markings on them. The yard stick ensures that the acceleration is consistent, because that is where people have issues with distance control.

Feel is essentially muscle memory and it’s harder to get feel if you aren’t doing the same thing. 

If it’s distance control, you teach distance control on flat, and then teach them how to apply it to slope.

The approach you describe definitely falls on the "technical" side of putting and not the instinctual side.  Interested in  what you consider to be "technical" approach to distance control?

Tempo is how fast you move the putter.  a player can vary the tempo and still move the putter the same distance but the ball will roll different distances.   If doesn't ensure acceleration is consistent it just validates that my backstroke and through stroke end at a specific point in space.   I would say mirrors have the markings because what you are describing is an easy way to teach distance control.  Works for some doesn't work for others.   

Feel is tied to instinct.  Yes,  you need to do the same "thing"   The same thing could be move the putter back to where you feel you have loaded it with enough energy to get to the hole and not long or shot.  Then let gravity control the through stroke since gravity provides consistent acceleration.   You can learn feel by doing things like hit a putt short then hit a putt long and then hit a putt the correct distance....there are lots of drills that dial in instinct.  

If you are doing instinctual putting you can teach distance control on any slope.