Shaft vs. Head

[fixyurdivot]

I've been doing some research of late as part of my search for a longer 3 wood.  Reading through various threads, blogs, and articles, one sub topic really stands out ... shafts.  It seems there is more churn and debate about shafts than any other component in golf equipment.  Perhaps that has much to do with the fact that industry standards do not exist to define shaft attributes, and that a good many "almost the real deal" shafts are offered by OEM's which can cause lots of confusion.  Fujikara's Ventus a good recent example. Add to this the other debate as to just how important (or not) the shaft is versus the head, and it's no wonder so many discussions end up off in the weeds with no consensus.

My recent fitting experiences really opened my eyes to the value of a competent fitting process and that both heads and shafts make a difference.  Some were very subtle, others very obvious. I'm curious what the forum thinks about shafts vs. heads and their relative importance to each other. For the sake of the poll and discussion, let's say we're talking about more discriminate players - those that delve into the details and don't just buy straight off the rack with little or no research into the decision.

So, the archer aside, which contributes most to the club performance?

 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Head is responsible for the majority of launch and spin. Shaft provides weight and feel. 

Howard Jones has a real detailed thread about this on wrx. I won’t link to another forum but if you google ShafTs when TK change and when to tweak lofts you will get the link.

TXG has videos on this as well and in the driver fitting for Ian they talk about how shafts don’t spin but can have an influence on swing dynamics. This is what will affect the ball flight.

Ive posted threads about the shaft myths from Tom Wishon but the full article can be found on wrx with a search for wishon shaft myths 

 

[chisag]

... Shafts are just soooo golfer dependent. When the Ping Eye 2 was introduced by an Engineer that didn't play golf, Karsten put x-flex in his irons because he did not want timing to be an issue. And that was for women too. That same theory holds for Nunchuk shafts. The head is delivered by a shaft with a straight line that provides zero kick from the shaft so again in theory, a more repeatable trajectory and direction. And if you have an early release the shaft flex is basically irrelevant because the shaft has already unloaded before impact.

... But for those with a repeatable swing and a late release finding a shaft that matches your swing speed, delivery and release will result in better spin, trajectory and distance. The head will always have more influence than the shaft, but for those with a quality swing and late release, the shaft can be very important. And as you found out, a quality fitting can put you in a position to produce your best results. This is one of the reasons good fitters don't let better players hit more than 2 or 3 swings max if the shaft isn't a good fit because the player will begin to change their swing to achieve their desired results. The right shaft should always fit your swing and your swing should never fit the wrong shaft. 

[fixyurdivot]

7 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Head is responsible for the majority of launch and spin. Shaft provides weight and feel.

That's interesting given how much shaft mfg.'s advertise both launch and spin characteristics of their products.  So if a dozen different shafts were tested using a swing robot on any given head, you doubt their would be much difference in launch and spin? 

 

6 hours ago, chisag said:

This is one of the reasons good fitters don't let better players hit more than 2 or 3 swings max if the shaft isn't a good fit because the player will begin to change their swing to achieve their desired results.

My fitter didn't get that chance with the Steelfiber... I just handed it back to him and said "next please" .  

[RickyBobby_PR]

7 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

That's interesting given how much shaft mfg.'s advertise both launch and spin characteristics of their products.  So if a dozen different shafts were tested using a swing robot on any given head, you doubt their would be much difference in launch and spin? 

They have to have a way to market the shafts and using the EI profile or the technical terms around the design isn’t easy for the general public.

Also low launch low spin as an example doesn’t mean that’s what they will do. 
 

For most clubs in the bag the vast majority of fitters start with the head. Loft and if at a brand agnostic fitting head shape that gets the ball in the right launch window then tweak with shaft.

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

That's interesting given how much shaft mfg.'s advertise both launch and spin characteristics of their products.  So if a dozen different shafts were tested using a swing robot on any given head, you doubt their would be much difference in launch and spin? 

i forgot to answer your question and adding in some additional info.

When they label the shafts low low as they example that’s just indicating it’s a stiff tip. Across the board you would need to see the EI profile to see what shaft has a stiffer tip than another similarly labeled shaft. 
 

Yes I would expect to see insignificant differences in shafts labeled similarly.

I can tell you from personal experience that the numbers across several shafts with different profiles in my fittings has launch numbers within 2° of each other and spin numbers that were within 500rpm of each other. However there were shafts that caused me to alter my swing. My last titleist fitting this was discussed with the fitter after we narrowed down the head and adapter setting and were working thru the final 3 shafts. All had similar numbers but he noted that with one of the fujikura shafts he noticed my swing tempo and delivery changed with that shaft and I noted I felt like I had to go harder with that shaft. I’ve also had some shafts in the 70g class work better than their 60g version while other lighter 60g shafts have worked better depending on the head. Comes down to feel and balance/weight.

In the video of Ian’s fitting you can see the change in his swing path with the shaft changes and the change in how the ball reacts. Not a lot of difference in the sling launch numbers but the change in swing changed starting line and how much the ball moved

[IONEPUTT]

This is really a "Trick" question guys.  

IF you look at the head, sure it will affect things a lot If you change the loft. But what about when you compare different heads of the "Same" loft?  Will the head have that much affect on the results then?  I'd be willing to bet that a different shaft can have just as much affect of ball flight as the head if you keep the loft the same and just try a different head by the different OEM's out there. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

7 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

This is really a "Trick" question guys.  

IF you look at the head, sure it will affect things a lot If you change the loft. But what about when you compare different heads of the "Same" loft?  Will the head have that much affect on the results then?  I'd be willing to bet that a different shaft can have just as much affect of ball flight as the head if you keep the loft the same and just try a different head by the different OEM's out there. 

Yes lofts if different heads for some will affect the launch and spin based on head shape, cg placement and how the way the person delivers the club. It’s why a fitter will try different lofts and heads to find the one that gets the ball into the right launch window for the golfer. They will try some different shafts with each head to before settling on the head and then from there tweak the ball flight with shaft.

If someone wants to change their launch or spin they do it thru loft.

No need to speculate. Wishon is a great resource and Howard is just as good and has years of data from his fitting days of working fittings in Europe.

Not to mention the TXG videos that talk about fittings and how shafts don’t spin.0”

Ill go ahead and post the links to a thread and blog post 

https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1860305-shafts-when-to-change-and-when-to-tweak-lofts/

https://www.golfwrx.com/6419/tom-wishon-talking-to-wrx-readers-10-myths-about-shafts-factual-info-about-shafts-to-help-you-all/

 

[Dajgolf]

On 5/8/2022 at 1:08 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Head is responsible for the majority of launch and spin. Shaft provides weight and feel. 

Howard Jones has a real detailed thread about this on wrx. I won’t link to another forum but if you google ShafTs when TK change and when to tweak lofts you will get the link.

TXG has videos on this as well and in the driver fitting for Ian they talk about how shafts don’t spin but can have an influence on swing dynamics. This is what will affect the ball flight.

Ive posted threads about the shaft myths from Tom Wishon but the full article can be found on wrx with a search for wishon shaft myths 

 

Agree, shaft minor affect and head major affect.

[Bang60]

I put head but, I’m talking about my brain . And I’m not sure about that, reason is my swing is constantly evolving or changing and what is in control. I think all of the above to one degree or another depending on the day. And I sight all of the Professional golf players in the world, how many different swings are there that we see them using. Millions, but alot of similar movements in those swings …