Sorting through Swing Thoughts / Accountability thread

[vandyland]

Hit 100 balls or so yesterday working on about 3 different things but PRIORITIZING weight shift at the top of the backswing to initiate the transition along with Cast A. I found that I need to exaggerate the flexing of the lead knee (as Monte says) to get really good contact. When I don't do that, I find I hit it thin since I am no longer dipping my shoulder. Feels more athletic and tempo based which I like and I can really get in a groove. 

Still have not even THOUGHT about practicing putting. Just can't get myself to care at this point so I will just keep suffering on the greens. I think it is going to take me hitting 14+ greens AND 3 putting 6+ greens for it to get my attention that I have a new problem brewing. 

[Goober]

I like your drive vandy golfer. I hope Monte at his clinic gives you some simple swing ideas that will really elevate your game. And I stress simple. I’m not one for major swing over hauls anymore. 

[vandyland]

Hit balls into the net last night and hit some good, some bad. Steps forward, steps backwards. As always, when I hit into the net for a few days I start wondering if the "good" shots are just pulls. But, thankfully, I have some time coming up this weekend to practice/play. My wife has taken the kids to their godparents and I am staying home with the dogs so I have a day and a half to just....whatever. Assuming good weather here is the plan:

Tonight (5 pm - 7:30 pm) - Range work and short game area. Range time is to be spent working through small swings and working on pressure shift and CAST A and all that (as always)
Tomorrow - 9:20 am tee time, debating getting a second tee time at 3:00 pm. Will warm up before hand on the range and play hoping to not have more than just "add flex to lead knee in transition" as my swing thought. We will see. If I don't get a second tee time, will hit balls on the range working on whatever WASN'T working during the round. Might hit balls in between tee times in any event. 
Sunday - Depending on if my wife comes home Saturday night or Sunday morning, might play one more time sunday morning. 

[cksurfdude]

Somewhat related -- finished a long Day 1 of my Monte clinic and while I have improved since last year, I .. not surprisingly, really .. still have the same major fault that I'd _thought_ I'd been working on...

The relevant part of that story is... I was not alone!!

Other repeat attendees also mentioned they have notes from last and/or prior years that mention the same thing as they received from Monte today...

So moral of the story, I guess, is be patient with the process and keep working towards your goal(s)!! 

[cnosil]

22 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

Somewhat related -- finished a long Day 1 of my Monte clinic and while I have improved since last year, I .. not surprisingly, really .. still have the same major fault that I'd _thought_ I'd been working on...

Raises the question about whether someone can work on something independently or if they need periodic review/supervision.  

[cksurfdude]

1 minute ago, cnosil said:

Raises the question about whether someone can work on something independently or if they need periodic review/supervision.  

Yes! That very question came up a few times today, from a few different people - eg how do I know I'm still practicing the right thing? ..or how can I be able to tell when I'm getting off track, or also tell if I've taken the change too far?

One suggestion was to use video but with the caveat that you need the proper model to compare your "ongoing self" to.

Monte in his own inimitable way said something like, well if you're not seeing improvement then you're still not doing it right... 

[vandyland]

Played extremely well yesterday. Hit balls for an hour on Friday at the range and then hit short pitches at the short game area for 45 minutes. Then saturday morning went out and shot even par! 4 birdies! Hit the ball really well and just felt in control all day. I know everything in golf is temporary and I am going out again today but I just want to enjoy the small successes here. I don’t have “it” and will never probably have it but the practice seems to he helping.

[cnosil]

10 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

Yes! That very question came up a few times today, from a few different people - eg how do I know I'm still practicing the right thing? ..or how can I be able to tell when I'm getting off track, or also tell if I've taken the change too far?

One suggestion was to use video but with the caveat that you need the proper model to compare your "ongoing self" to.

Monte in his own inimitable way said something like, well if you're not seeing improvement then you're still not doing it right... 

I don't know what the follow up is for the Monte clinics,  but that is the one aspect of lessons that need to be communicated.  Changes take time and people need feedback that they are doing it right.  I don't necessarily want to consume a lesson just to check that I am doing a drill correctly.  

  It's a difficult position for a student and instructor.   We want feedback and the instructor can't give feedback forever on a single drill. 

[vandyland]

Well wrapped up this VERY golf heavy weekend with a 76 from the Blue Tees (6,400 yds // 72.1/137) which felt VERY good. Overall, the ball flight looks good and the only place it feels a tad shaky is the wedges and Driver at times. Irons (right now) feel very good. Going into Monte's clinic expecting to be humbled but I feel like I have put the effort in and stuck with it for the last several months. Just got all my clubs re-gripped and lie/lofts checked so no excuses there. Will be trying to cram NTC a little this week but I expect we will be talking about my lower body quite a bit. Very excited and glad I am swinging it decently though there is still PLENTY of time for it to fall apart. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

18 hours ago, cnosil said:

Raises the question about whether someone can work on something independently or if they need periodic review/supervision.  

Based on what I’ve seen reading the instruction forum on wrx for most amateurs they need some type of consistent supervision including just on the drills given them along with how it’s transferring to the swing.

Monte has said a few times in that subforum that while it costs him money he tells students to come back 4-6 weeks and not the every week or every two weeks many instructors use or students want. He’s also said that many times in those or in their more periodic checkins he tells them to keep working on the samething.  Monte will identify the biggest thing that will bring the student bigger improvement and focuses on that. From what I’ve seen it’s the fundamentals of a proper takeaway and use of the hips

[Christof]

Good day
is a question, the problem is when i am on the course with result all after right or slice, i often regularly do not finish my swing, i think something with the hips and my left leg that comes too straight or is too stiff. maybe little bit the grip. big problem is me swing not finishing and left leg. So the question is what exercise or material can help with that. Already taken few many lessons, it is usually on the course it goes wrong. but no one can really say the problem sometimes too tense/tired but is not always the case. I have attached videos from on the driving range.
I have a swing/grip trainer and golf smash bag.

Greetings
Christof

[cksurfdude]

2 hours ago, vandyland said:

Going into Monte's clinic expecting to be humbled

Yep. Happens to *every* person there, regardless of handicap and of ball striking ability, so just let it go and relax right now dammmit!

Everyone is there to learn and to get things to take home to work on to improve.

 

8 hours ago, cnosil said:

I don't know what the follow up is for the Monte clinics,  but that is the one aspect of lessons that need to be communicated.  Changes take time and people need feedback that they are doing it right.

There's no section follow-up structure... Many of his students use either virtual lessons with him, or send him a swing vid and he'll return comments. A few others do multiple clinics per year; it also seems he has a few high net worth courage who travel to see him for a private session.

[Christof]

23 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

Yep. Happens to *every* person there, regardless of handicap and of ball striking ability, so just let it go and relax right now dammmit!

Everyone is there to learn and to get things to take home to work on to improve.

 

There's no section follow-up structure... Many of his students use either virtual lessons with him, or send him a swing vid and he'll return comments. A few others do multiple clinics per year; it also seems he has a few high net worth courage who travel to see him for a private session.

Never heard of the Monte clinic, on google I come up with hair loss or hair transplants, I don't know if that's what you mean. With me, it happens too much or almost always on the course that I have a slice and especially at the tee, only I don't always know what I'm doing wrong and neither do fellow players always then it's very annoying and frustrated when it succeeds on the fairway and not at the tee. If I ball not on tee I still have it at the tee. Will be is a lesson on the course and maybe find out more.

[cksurfdude]

4 hours ago, Christof said:

Never heard of the Monte clinic, on google I come up with hair loss or hair transplants, I don't know if that's what you mean. With me, it happens too much or almost always on the course that I have a slice and especially at the tee, only I don't always know what I'm doing wrong and neither do fellow players always then it's very annoying and frustrated when it succeeds on the fairway and not at the tee. If I ball not on tee I still have it at the tee. Will be is a lesson on the course and maybe find out more.

Hi Christof -

Welcome to the forum but so you know there are other threads, or topics, in the forum for asking questions about technique .. this thread / topic is for user vandyland to talk about his swing journey.

"Monte" refers to Monte Scheinblum who runs a series of clinics for small groups during the year; several users on the forum are familiar with his instruction or have seen him in person.

Anyway the best way to get help with *your* swing is to find a good teaching professional near you who can evaluate you, actually see you swing and get you started with an improvement plan!

[vandyland]

@Christof - You definitely do not want any swing analysis from me, haha. I am not knowledgeable in that area! But there are a number of people on this forum that can help but as @cksurfdude pointed out, an instructor is the best place to start. 

[Christof]

On 7/11/2023 at 3:48 AM, cksurfdude said:

Hi Christof -

Welcome to the forum but so you know there are other threads, or topics, in the forum for asking questions about technique .. this thread / topic is for user vandyland to talk about his swing journey.

"Monte" refers to Monte Scheinblum who runs a series of clinics for small groups during the year; several users on the forum are familiar with his instruction or have seen him in person.

Anyway the best way to get help with *your* swing is to find a good teaching professional near you who can evaluate you, actually see you swing and get you started with an improvement plan!

Hello cksurfdude

OK then I misread that, I saw it said Lessons, Drills, Mental Game, and Fitness Tips, I thought I could ask the question there.

Honestly From Monte Scheinblum never heard of, when I google or youtube, mostly trainers from U.K., the only American I come across is Mr. Short Game.

Finding good coach is not easy.

Thanks for answering.
Christof

[cksurfdude]

3 minutes ago, Christof said:

Finding good coach is not easy.

No, it is not... Maybe start by asking around at the courses you play at?

FYI .. and in my opinion .. good instruction and good communication go together; that is - try to have a discussion with potential instructors to ask them about their teaching method .. at the same time the instructor should be asking you about your game and what you're trying to achieve .. it should be a good two way communication.

Good luck!!

[Christof]

On 7/11/2023 at 2:07 PM, vandyland said:

@Christof - You definitely do not want any swing analysis from me, haha. I am not knowledgeable in that area! But there are a number of people on this forum that can help but as @cksurfdude pointed out, an instructor is the best place to start. 

Good day Vandyland

Ok no problem, where on the forum can I ask that question then, under Training Aids, GPS Devices, Apps, Accessories & More! and or Fittings otherwise I wouldn't know where to ask the question.
Where I caught up with last lesson, against said is having to make time before going on the course, that's where things frequently go wrong. I don't always know what goes wrong.

Greetings
Christof

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Christof said:

Hello cksurfdude

OK then I misread that, I saw it said Lessons, Drills, Mental Game, and Fitness Tips, I thought I could ask the question there.

Honestly From Monte Scheinblum never heard of, when I google or youtube, mostly trainers from U.K., the only American I come across is Mr. Short Game.

Finding good coach is not easy.

Thanks for answering.
Christof

Search YouTube and instagram and you will find him. Also rebelliongolf which is his website.

If one spends a little bit of time just searching they can find a good instructor. There are several that are UK based. Meandmygolf, Danny Maude, Chris Ryan to name just a few.

then there are tons online using the skillest app.

1 hour ago, Christof said:

Good day Vandyland

Ok no problem, where on the forum can I ask that question then, under Training Aids, GPS Devices, Apps, Accessories & More! and or Fittings otherwise I wouldn't know where to ask the question.
Where I caught up with last lesson, against said is having to make time before going on the course, that's where things frequently go wrong. I don't always know what goes wrong.

Greetings
Christof

You are on the right forum you Kai t have to create your own thread and not use an existing one or post in a thread like how did you practice today.

 

[Christof]

On 7/12/2023 at 11:03 PM, cksurfdude said:

No, it is not... Maybe start by asking around at the courses you play at?

FYI .. and in my opinion .. good instruction and good communication go together; that is - try to have a discussion with potential instructors to ask them about their teaching method .. at the same time the instructor should be asking you about your game and what you're trying to achieve .. it should be a good two way communication.

Good luck!!

Thanks

[vandyland]

Well one of the busiest work weeks of my life so I haven't updated as I have been working 10+ hour days BUT I am headed to Chicago today and will have the Monte workshop this weekend. Should be great! Looking forward to it!

[Christof]

On 7/13/2023 at 12:19 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Search YouTube and instagram and you will find him. Also rebelliongolf which is his website.

If one spends a little bit of time just searching they can find a good instructor. There are several that are UK based. Meandmygolf, Danny Maude, Chris Ryan to name just a few.

then there are tons online using the skillest app.

You are on the right forum you Kai t have to create your own thread and not use an existing one or post in a thread like how did you practice today.

 

Meandmygolf, Danny Maude I sometimes come across on the internet and Rick Shiels I also like who keeps it simple. I googled for rebelliongolf, I hadn't come across it yet. I went to the skillset site, there are no Belgian trainers on it for being active in or in Belgium, is also 1st time from that site though.
 Forum tread; pay better attention next time.
Thanks
Christof

[Christof]

1 hour ago, vandyland said:

Well one of the busiest work weeks of my life so I haven't updated as I have been working 10+ hour days BUT I am headed to Chicago today and will have the Monte workshop this weekend. Should be great! Looking forward to it!

Those have been long days, Hope you will get something out of it from the Monte workshop, have fun and let us know how it has been.

[RickyBobby_PR]

40 minutes ago, Christof said:

Meandmygolf, Danny Maude I sometimes come across on the internet and Rick Shiels I also like who keeps it simple. I googled for rebelliongolf, I hadn't come across it yet. I went to the skillset site, there are no Belgian trainers on it for being active in or in Belgium, is also 1st time from that site though.
 Forum tread; pay better attention next time.
Thanks
Christof

Skillest is for online lessons. Doesn’t matter where the instructor is they will watch a video and give you feedback. There are some great instructors on there at a low cost and some great ones that charge more, and then a bunch of others that may or may not be good, I haven’t researched every instructor on the app so don’t know if the ones I am not familiar with are good or bad.

[Christof]

22 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Skillest is for online lessons. Doesn’t matter where the instructor is they will watch a video and give you feedback. There are some great instructors on there at a low cost and some great ones that charge more, and then a bunch of others that may or may not be good, I haven’t researched every instructor on the app so don’t know if the ones I am not familiar with are good or bad.

OK I didn't browse the site that well either, I did find a Belgian one LESLIE CLOOTS and Jerome Theunis who taught Thomas Pieters and Thomas Detry and Nicolas Colsart is the most expensive. Misschein is intressant though. Go 1st is try to take a course lesson with a trainer from the club it mainly goes wrong on the course. Today I played at the Kempense golf course in Mol-rouw, in the front 23 points in the back 14 points, it's mainly mental, my head is completely on/empty, always goes down in the back, sometimes it also goes wrong in the front, don't know what goes wrong then it never gets better, on a screen or driving range I don't think it will do me much good

[vandyland]

So, I don't think I have time to fully explain the Monte clinic but I will hit the high points:

(1) It is amazing how fast and how accurately he can pick out issues in your swing
(2) He, to a person, found a feel that could almost instantly (within 2-3 swings) produce a totally different (read: much improved) golf shot. Of course this doesn't last as we revert back to our tendencies almost immediately but it was akin to magic.
(3) He gave everyone in the group (and we ranged from 20ish handicaps down to +2 handicaps and everything in between) a select few things to work on and drills to improve those things. He was able to help and develop feels for any skill level. 
(4) I went for full swing help and came away with improvements in EVERY area. Putting was eye opening and simple. A small change to my pitching has the ball coming out and stopping TOTALLY different. Bunker play, again simplified, was hilariously simple. He taught me a chip shot that I had tried a few times but my setup was getting in my way. 

Here is the thing, I am still very early in this journey but I am EXCITED to work on this stuff. I was worried I would be overwhelmed and there is still plenty of time for that to happen but I was energized by this clinic and experience. Barring an injury/life event or I completely quit golf....I will be going back next year. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by vandyland

[vandyland]

So, the 4 things that I have to fix according to Monte, in order of importance:

#1 - Maintain eyeline through golf swing -- translation, I was watching the first few inches of my backswing with my eyes. So my eyes moved from looking at the ball to watching my club go back for a quick second. I think this came from drilling the backswing practice over and over (even though Monte says in the video "don't get in the habit of watching your backswing, it will ruin your swing"). So he said this has to get fixed before anything else. I think I may have won the medal for most destructive swing fault with this. 

#2 - Hands need to be ahead of right thigh @ shaft parallel in the downswing - This is a fault he said I will likely fight for the rest of my golf career. Many people do. This idea that leading with the hips generates power may work for some people but for me it just leaves my hands way behind. 

#3 - Left shift toward target has to initiate before the end of the backswing - I was not getting over to my left side soon enough or even enough in general. Not entirely "hanging back" but enough to be noticeable. 

#4 - Trail arm collapses a bit at the top of backswing - I think the fix here is a shorter backswing and trying to keep the right arm straighter (it won't be straight of course but "feeling" that) longer. 

How do I do that? Well he gave me drills for each fault and told me that 90-95% of my range practice (and by extension net practice) should be on shots under 150 yds. Don't hit balls for longer than 20 minutes without stopping and reviewing some video or at least pausing for 5 minutes to think. The changes should mostly be felt through 3/4 swings and I will likely have to exaggerate some of the feels to even get close to what I need to do. Especially on #2 and #3. 

So last night, I was doing a little more filming as I hit for 15 minutes on and then stopped and watched for 5 minutes. I am now doing more "FACE ON" video rather than "DOWN THE LINE" since the face one will show me #1, #2 and #3 better than down the line. I have my marching orders so now I am back into my practice. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by vandyland

[cksurfdude]

Wow you sure got your money's worth out of that clinic!! But seriously glad it worked out so well for you

 

11 hours ago, vandyland said:

This idea that leading with the hips generates power may work for some people but for me it just leaves my hands way behind. 

Gee I wish I didn't know what you're talking about.. ..Monte called my embarrassing, destructive swing fault "The Ballerina Move"

I have to work on getting my arms moving waaaay way sooner in the downswing...

 

On 7/17/2023 at 10:53 AM, vandyland said:

I will be going back next year. 

Hear ya - this year was #3 for me and I learned the most this time!

[vandyland]

Played twice this weekend and while the two rounds were fairly spread out by score (shot 81 and 74 on the same course in the same conditions on consecutive days) it was really just down to pitch shots. On the 81 day, I was determined (for some reason) to try to implement all that I had learned from Monte's clinic. We have some really tight lies around the greens here and I think I chunked 3 pitches from less than 30 yards. That easily added 3 shots if not 4. Also hit one bad sand shot and lost a drive way left. Bam 81. Then on Sunday I doubled the first after missing long and just decided to play the highest percentage shots around the green for the rest of the day. Seems obvious, right? That mean a lot of putting or using the hybrid chip that Monte taught us. Voila, no chunked chips and we made a few putts and I shot 74. Ballstriking was relatively flat across the two days. 

One other thing that I put into play this weekend was the idea of swinging a little easier and taking one extra club. So for example, if I am at 160 yds out that is a pretty stock 7 iron. Well this weekend, I was hitting a 90% 6 iron there and they were flighting beautifully. It goes along with what I am practicing on the range which is what "feels" like a 3/4 shot just to work on contact and my current swing changes. Swallowing my ego and carrying this onto the course worked out very well for me in both rounds. The question is....will I keep it up? If one round goes poorly will I throw this idea in the trash? Or, if this goes well for several rounds will I get cocky and start thinking I can hit FULL shots again? 

[vandyland]

Not much practice this week. We are up in the adirondacks for the week with the kids so no golf BUT I do have a Stroke Play tournament next week so hopefully I will come back in decent shape. I get back on Monday night so I have Tue - Fri to work things out at night. Goal is to hit balls on the range one day after work and do some short game and putting practice another night. In both instances, less is probably more and will not for longer than 20 minutes at time on the range without stopping and looking at film or thinking about how things came off. And no more than an hour total. As always, I will have to fight the urge to watch my backswing and spin out from the top so that is what we will be fighting against. Also need to get my lies and lofts checked since I haven't done that in at least a year and I have forged clubs.