I accidentally unlocked how to generate leg power and it's sorted my swing tempo in the process

[MissionMan]

I thought I knew how to generate power from my legs, but I was wrong. I'm one of those golfers who plays decently but finds that I randomly generate an extra 5-10mph of club head speed without knowing how. It's those occasions where you take a 90% swing and hit 10-15 yards further. Then you try with the 90% swing, and despite hitting the centre of the club, it goes shorter again, and you can't understand why that one swing went longer, or what the secret sauce was. For a period, I though it was my striking location, but with my skytrak, I managed to validate that my club head speed is much faster when I got my tempo right. 

I have been working on my weight transfer with chipping and pitch shots. At the time, it was about building consistency with the chipping strike by making sure I transferred my weight correctly so I could get more consistent with distances. It's been working well so far. While working on it, I worked out I could swing the club with just my leg movement and weight transfer without my head moving or swaying and I realised how bad my leg movement had been to date. Initially, I thought I must be swaying, but a bit of camera work validated I wasn't, I was just turning better and using my legs properly.

I tried using it with my 9 iron for full strikes and wow, I've basically gone from a 145 yard 9 iron to a 155 yard 9 iron, and best of all, my iron striking consistency has improved as well. 

Have you ever had that moment when you realise you've been doing something wrong all your life, or basically misunderstood the mechanics of something?

 

[Rob Person]

I have attempted better leg movements but found myself crossing up my upper body in the process. So I went back to better upper form practice and swing path practice and will work on lower body movements in small increments 

 

Glad you found your groove!

[RetiredBoomer]

I feel that the banishment of steel spikes diminished the power I got from my legs many years ago. 

It's the same for everybody, I suppose, but I never did understand why they banned them.

 

[MissionMan]

1 hour ago, Rob Person said:

I have attempted better leg movements but found myself crossing up my upper body in the process. So I went back to better upper form practice and swing path practice and will work on lower body movements in small increments 

 

Glad you found your groove!

Thanks. It reminds me of those 3D puzzles you stare at for ages, and when you finally see it, you can't unsee it.

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 hours ago, MissionMan said:

I thought I knew how to generate power from my legs, but I was wrong. I'm one of those golfers who plays decently but finds that I randomly generate an extra 5-10mph of club head speed without knowing how. It's those occasions where you take a 90% swing and hit 10-15 yards further. Then you try with the 90% swing, and despite hitting the centre of the club, it goes shorter again, and you can't understand why that one swing went longer, or what the secret sauce was. For a period, I though it was my striking location, but with my skytrak, I managed to validate that my club head speed is much faster when I got my tempo right. 

I have been working on my weight transfer with chipping and pitch shots. At the time, it was about building consistency with the chipping strike by making sure I transferred my weight correctly so I could get more consistent with distances. It's been working well so far. While working on it, I worked out I could swing the club with just my leg movement and weight transfer without my head moving or swaying and I realised how bad my leg movement had been to date. Initially, I thought I must be swaying, but a bit of camera work validated I wasn't, I was just turning better and using my legs properly.

I tried using it with my 9 iron for full strikes and wow, I've basically gone from a 145 yard 9 iron to a 155 yard 9 iron, and best of all, my iron striking consistency has improved as well. 

Have you ever had that moment when you realise you've been doing something wrong all your life, or basically misunderstood the mechanics of something?

 

Interesting that you found this especially from chipping but also pitching because there really is no pressure shifting in those especially chipping.

But yes this is the key to a good swing and speed. If pressure shifts are off the club is goin to get out of position at some point and low point control and face control become issues due to the need to compensate.

 

[MissionMan]

Actually, thats not strictly correct, or at least not all the time. Some of the best short game players had weight transfer in their short game. That said, it really depends on the kind of shot. Low shot, yes, but lofted shots require some form of weight transfer. You may only have a marginal shift of weight back, but you have a fair amount of weight shift forward. You can see what I mean with Rory here. 

The second second thing to remember is when you do drills, they aren’t a replica of a swing. If you are swinging the club back and forward, that already has a swing starting with the weight quite forward so when you return the weight to the starting point, you’re essentially transferring weight backwards

[NHRon]

Headline: Willie Mays fixed my golf swing!

Actually it was his passing, and so far he's only fixed it for one day. So how the hell did he do this?

When I heard about him dying, I looked up "5 tool baseball player", because Willie Mays was arguably the greatest 5-tool player in the history of the game (i.e., run, throw, field, hit for average, hit for power). That took me to a baseball website that had a number of articles about the greatest hitters in the game. The author of these articles was of the opinion that they all shared certain traits, one of which is a move he called "tipping the bat" early in the swing, before the pitch had even been released. This gave the bat some early momentum and allowed them to generate bat speed very quickly late in the swing. This in turn allowed them to adjust to pitch speed and location, not swing at bad pitches and square up on hittable ones. This also involves keeping the hands back (hips first, then hands - sound familiar?) versus "throwing them at the ball from a standing start" which a lot of modern hitting coaches advocate.

So I played yesterday, walking 18 in the 100+ heat index (we thought we would beat the heat with a 6:40 tee time - we didn't). After a double-double start (my 70 year old body isn't usually trying to play golf at that time of day) I started playing pretty well, even though my driver was misbehaving. I thought about what was causing my bad drives, and I remembered what I'd read about great hitters. These principles are usually applicable to related athletic pursuits (swinging a golf club vs a baseball bat). So I tried to consciously keep my hands back until later in my swing. And guess what. My transition got smoother, my tempo got more even, my contact got better and my clubhead speed in the hitting zone increased. I may or may not have been "tipping the club" from the top - I didn't think about and I'm not sure I want to. But keeping my hands back worked. It fixed my sequence which in turn improved my tempo. And if those two things are right you have a pretty good chance of hitting a good shot.

So thanks, Willie! RIP.

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 hours ago, MissionMan said:

Actually, thats not strictly correct, or at least not all the time. Some of the best short game players had weight transfer in their short game. That said, it really depends on the kind of shot. Low shot, yes, but lofted shots require some form of weight transfer. You may only have a marginal shift of weight back, but you have a fair amount of weight shift forward. You can see what I mean with Rory here. 

The second second thing to remember is when you do drills, they aren’t a replica of a swing. If you are swinging the club back and forward, that already has a swing starting with the weight quite forward so when you return the weight to the starting point, you’re essentially transferring weight backwards

As I mentioned I said no pressure shift in chipping. There is a slight pressure shift when pitching but it’s way less than in a full swing. It’s only about 10-15% for pitches that gets shifted rather than close to 30-35% in a full swing.

Trust me I’m very familiar with how drills and exaggeration of them works. Plenty of lessons, hundreds of hours studying the swing and taking to instructors as well as time working with friends on their swings  

[IndyBonzo]

I want this discovery in my life. 

[MissionMan]

On 6/21/2024 at 10:17 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

As I mentioned I said no pressure shift in chipping. There is a slight pressure shift when pitching but it’s way less than in a full swing. It’s only about 10-15% for pitches that gets shifted rather than close to 30-35% in a full swing.

Trust me I’m very familiar with how drills and exaggeration of them works. Plenty of lessons, hundreds of hours studying the swing and taking to instructors as well as time working with friends on their swings  

You actually said there is no pressure shifting in both, especially chipping. Again, I’m going to respectfully disagree. There can be no shifting but there also can be shifting. It depends on whether you use wrist with either. For example, chipping vs pitching is typically defined by height. A chip is low, a flop falls into pitching even if it’s short. 
Again, I’ll use a Rory video to show a low spinning check shot which has, you guessed, weight transfer. Note the title of the video is chip not pitch. I’ll also disagree on weight transfer. It’s not 15% or near to that. It might start 60/40 to front but by the end of the chipping, often 90-95 of the weight is on the front foot meaning it’s more than 15%. 

 

[cnosil]

I am thinking the answer to this question will be revealed soon.  Based on my quick watch there seems to be little lateral pressure shifting and mostly vertical forces.    I expect James to do a followup video with a breakdown of the data captured from the pressure plates.

 

 

[MissionMan]

6 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I am thinking the answer to this question will be revealed soon.  Based on my quick watch there seems to be little lateral pressure shifting and mostly vertical forces.    I expect James to do a followup video with a breakdown of the data captured from the pressure plates.

 

 

You’ll find variations on short game based on different coaching styles or approaches, so I don’t believe it’s right to say there is or isn’t a shifting of weight which is what I was trying to highlight above. He was saying there is no weight transfer, I was trying to highlight there can be. It’s a little like saying drivers have a 9.5° loft.  Yes they do but they don’t only have a 9.5° loft.

Chipping is a little like a golf swing. There isn’t one way. Some people like shaft lean, others say you should use the bounce.  Dan grieve has three releases for his short game approach, Grant field has one release style but breaks the wrist as the swing gets longer. 

Here is a video specifically on weight shifting with chipping.

And again, Padraig Harrington

You’ll find 50 videos with no weight transfer and another 50 with. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 hours ago, cnosil said:

I am thinking the answer to this question will be revealed soon.  Based on my quick watch there seems to be little lateral pressure shifting and mostly vertical forces.    I expect James to do a followup video with a breakdown of the data captured from the pressure plates.

 

 

The amount pressure shift in a pitch shot is very small. Most good players will start with about a 60/40 lead side setup. In the pitch shot the trial side will get to somewhere around 55% before moving back to the lead side.

in a regular swing it will be around 70% on the trail side in the takeaway

[cnosil]

16 hours ago, MissionMan said:

You’ll find variations on short game based on different coaching styles or approaches, so I don’t believe it’s right to say there is or isn’t a shifting of weight which is what I was trying to highlight above. He was saying there is no weight transfer, I was trying to highlight there can be.

 

7 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The amount pressure shift in a pitch shot is very small.

I am not stating anything either way.   If you watched the video I posted he hits shots using various approaches/techniques to see how they compare.   Ridyard has been showing comparisons between the shallow approach taught by people like Parker MacLaughlin and the steep approach taught by Joseph Mayo in many of his videos. 

You can both continue going back and forth with your opinions and examples to prove yourself correct..    

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

18 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I am not stating anything either way.   If you watched the video I posted he hits shots using various approaches/techniques to see how they compare.   Ridyard has been showing comparisons between the shallow approach taught by people like Parker MacLaughlin and the steep approach taught by Joseph Mayo in many of his videos. 

You can both continue going back and forth with your opinions and examples to prove yourself correct..    

 

Ridyards videos are about chipping as were the two posted by mission man after that. As we see in those the pressure to the trail side doesn’t really happen. It’s pressure on lead leg and no movement to trail foot.

Pitches are a longer swing with some rotation. As GG says you want the rotation to match the swing. So there will be some rotation with a pitch, not as much as a full shot. This will cause some pressure shift to the trail side just because some of the body and of course the club moving that way, very similar to how Porzak talks about his preferred way for pressure to move which comes from the upper body rotating.

It’s far less than a full swing and for many it’s not “forced” like in a full swing 

[cksurfdude]

Not saying they're "right", just saying, but two very different teaching sources (GolfTec, Monte) told me the same thing about CHIPPING (not pitching, but small next to the green short chip shots)...

Weight starts on the left side and then (weight or pressure) moves more onto the left in the takeaway and stays there.

Yes - there is more than one way to skin a cat (what a gruesome saying, really!). Is the above the "best" way? Yo no sabe Jefe

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

Not saying they're "right", just saying, but two very different teaching sources (GolfTec, Monte) told me the same thing about CHIPPING (not pitching, but small next to the green short chip shots)...

Weight starts on the left side and then (weight or pressure) moves more onto the left in the takeaway and stays there.

Yes - there is more than one way to skin a cat (what a gruesome saying, really!). Is the above the "best" way? Yo no sabe Jefe

For chipping that’s pretty much what everyone is teaching.

pitching is where there’s a bunch of grey areas. What’s considered a pitch vs chip may vary for some. Then there’s technique. Is one more of a day and stricker type with dead wrists. Stricter has no lateral shift in his pitching and chipping. He says it’s just rotation. 
 

If helped unlock the OPs full swing and getting pressure shifting properly in the full swing that’s great. A good golf swing has pressure shifting to trail side then back to lead side which is missing in many amateur golf swings even from very low handicaps including some + caps. There’s a guy on wrx who is a + cap that just got into working on pressure shifting maybe 6 months ago to help his game

[MissionMan]

7 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

If helped unlock the OPs full swing and getting pressure shifting properly in the full swing that’s great. A good golf swing has pressure shifting to trail side then back to lead side which is missing in many amateur golf swings even from very low handicaps including some + caps. There’s a guy on wrx who is a + cap that just got into working on pressure shifting maybe 6 months ago to help his game

I think (like myself) that most amateurs have a pressure shift with their full swings. Yes, some may only swing with their arms, or some may leave the pressure on their back legs and not get forward, but I'm talking more about better amateurs. The difference in what I was talking about in full swings was learning how to load with my legs/feet rather than just rotating and shifting the pressure back. I think moving pressure is an outcome of loading properly, not the activity of loading properly. I think like anything in golf, different swing thoughts work in different ways for people and whilst I've shifted pressure, I don't think I've managed to leverage that pressure shift to maximise power.

What I was talking about was the following (this is the only way I can try explain it so ignore whether the pressure shift in pitching is good bad): Imagine standing with the club hanging in front of you, minimal wrist stiffness, loose hands. Feet about a club head apart, maybe 4-6 inches. Then try to swing the club back and forth WITHOUT using your arms or hips, using only a pressure shift back and forth, like you're walking in the same spot, but without lifting your feet. It doesn't require much pressure shift. Allow your knees to bend, but no hip rotation or active movement of the arms other than allowing them to swing. What you work out from that is you can actively use the legs to start moving the club quickly, continue it swinging back and forth and then stop the swing quite quickly by loading your feet into the ground. So if you start swinging back and forth, and get the club moving higher and higher, you can stop it almost immediately just through the legs. The more you get used to it, the more aggressively you can start and stop the swing. I.e. you can essentially move the club back and load it up to stop it moving with only the legs, then aggressively move it forward to restart the swing. Once you can do that aggressively, move it into your normal swing. It's hard to do it with the legs wider, so it means starting it in your normal swing with the legs about a club head apart, then progressively move them further apart. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, MissionMan said:

think (like myself) that most amateurs have a pressure shift with their full swings. Yes, some may only swing with their arms, or some may leave the pressure on their back legs and not get forward, but I'm talking more about better amateurs.

Most amateurs shift late in both directions. This is pretty common in the vast majority of amateur golfers to include low handicaps as well.

Some will shift mass which is even worse.

1 hour ago, MissionMan said:

. I think moving pressure is an outcome of loading properly, not the activity of loading properly. I think like anything in golf, different swing thoughts work in different ways for people and whilst I've shifted pressure, I don't think I've managed to leverage that pressure shift to maximise power.

We don’t have to think, it’s been measured over and over, the data is all there. Good golfers shift pressure into their trail leg at the start of the swing and it finishes/maxes out by p2 for most and no later than p3(they are at 70% on the trail side).

One of the great things about the golf swing today is we have 3d data and other various measurements at different points in the swing that we don’t have to guess or rely on 2d videos or images 
 

They are moving back to 50/50 between that point and the end iv the backswing. Between the end of the bakcswing and the start of transition they are now 70% on the lead side.

There are two methods being taught and outside of Porzak I’m not aware of anyone who is teaching let the upper body turn be what cause the pressure shift. Everyone else is an active move to the trail side. You can watch any of the amg videos they show this move.

1 hour ago, MissionMan said:

What I was talking about was the following (this is the only way I can try explain it so ignore whether the pressure shift in pitching is good bad): Imagine standing with the club hanging in front of you, minimal wrist stiffness, loose hands. Feet about a club head apart, maybe 4-6 inches. Then try to swing the club back and forth WITHOUT using your arms or hips, using only a pressure shift back and forth, like you're walking in the same spot, but without lifting your feet. It doesn't require much pressure shift. Allow your knees to bend, but no hip rotation or active movement of the arms other than allowing them to swing. What you work out from that is you can actively use the legs to start moving the club quickly, continue it swinging back and forth and then stop the swing quite quickly by loading your feet into the ground. So if you start swinging back and forth, and get the club moving higher and higher, you can stop it almost immediately just through the legs. The more you get used to it, the more aggressively you can start and stop the swing. I.e. you can essentially move the club back and load it up to stop it moving with only the legs, then aggressively move it forward to restart the swing. Once you can do that aggressively, move it into your normal swing. It's hard to do it with the legs wider, so it means starting it in your normal swing with the legs about a club head apart, then progressively move them further apart. 

This is a drill/feel to learn how to shift. It’s one of many ways. Like using a pressure shift board, a ball under the heels or one heel, keeping trail heel off the ground then stomping it down, or many others.