Why do people flock to OEMs?

[jamo]

Basically just as the title and subtitle say: why do people flock to the big OEM golf companies? Besides the obvious reason that they are most available.

 

The thing is, we really haven't seen any companies (other than Nike, which is an obvious exception because they had Tiger Woods and were already the biggest sports equipment company in the world) rise up and become a golf superpower.

 

Companies such as Scratch, Miura, and Fourteen than are starting to catch on are all niche companies, known for their precise forging and beautiful clubs.

 

For example, do you think if Scratch (or Miura or Fourteen) made cast clubs as ugly (IMO) as some Callaways and PINGs, would they be half as big as they are? I doubt it.

[GolfSpy Dave]

Advertising and word of mouth. If all the people you know are playing TM or Callaway, that is the gear you check out.

 

Stand at the door of a shop and ask people who come in for an hour if they have heard of Fourteen or some of the other small companies.

Odds are they just don't know about them and also they may feel that purchasing from a non-big company is risky.

 

I felt that way when I ordered my first Byron putter. Not sure of the product, but trusted the glowing forum reviews. Paid off for sure.

I don't think that I feel as confident about an OEM putter now as I do about the small company makers.

[jamo]

Good point. One thing I want to add is that I totally understand it when it comes to woods. To be honest, I've never seen a driver from an off brand that I like the look at. But irons, wedges, putters...

[mudfish]

I think most of it is because of availability and price... I'd guess 90% of golfer are just out there for fun, and don't spend all day on the computer researching and analyzing the best equipment...

 

In my league of over 50 people, I only know of one other person that even owns a club that's not from Dicks or GG... they buy from the clubs that are available, and think that buying anything else from the internet is just going to be too expensive...

[Justin66]

I think it's purely ignorance. The "big boys" are only where they're at because of marketing and ad space. People watch the Golf Channel, read the golf magazines and the occasional ESPN golf telecast and are bombarded by the major players. They fall into that "it's on TV and it's expensive, so it HAS to be the best!" trap.

 

Look at Nike- they only got into the game (after buying, not developing, their technology) when Tiger came out and got lucky because he signed with them. But what would've happened if TW signed with Ben Hogan, Lynx, or Wilson/Staff? I'm inclined to believe the landscape would be MUCH different. How about Cleveland? They were a clone brand when they started, now they're the #1 seller of wedges. Titleist and Wilson/Staff are two of the most venerable OEMs left in the game... who's got better overall sales numbers, even though it's been proven both make quality gear? Who happens to buy more ad space? It's not a coincidence.

 

Speaking of brands, take a look at what's come and gone: Hogan, Tommy Armour, Nickent, Lynx, Ram, Top-Flite, Spaulding, MacGregor, Maxfli, Strata... and MANY more. It is easily conceivable that an up-and-comer, like Scratch, can step in and take someone's place in the food chain... especially if people grow disenfranchised with a current "big boy" and Scratch ramps up their marketing campaign.

[Matt Saternus]

I think it's purely ignorance. The "big boys" are only where they're at because of marketing and ad space. People watch the Golf Channel, read the golf magazines and the occasional ESPN golf telecast and are bombarded by the major players. They fall into that "it's on TV and it's expensive, so it HAS to be the best!" trap.

 

 

Bingo. The lack of knowledge that the average golfer displays can be mind numbing. There's also the element of fitting in/conforming. Plenty of people have noted that they get made fun of for playing knock offs/off brands/etc, and most people don't want to be made fun of.

[Maverickping]

Advertising and the marketing of the product. You have a Pro golfer you like, what does he play? One thing is also the tee-up money that is certainly in play. Most people are not aware of this.

[daves81]

This is an excellent thread .I play a pinemeadow hybrid that is similar to a tm rescue ,I hit it just as well as a real tm hybrid that i have.I think I paid 20-30$ for it .I have had it for 4 years and the only thing that really is different is the paint has wore off faster on the pinemeadow.I think clones or whatever you want to call them are an excellent way to start golfing.I personally dont have to play a certain brand just because a pro plays it or people look down at my gear.I am just out to have fun. Just my opinion ,but I do love reading the reviews of the oems on this forum. Dave

[Super Tuna]

I guess as a side to the advertising, demo days seem to be a big thing out west. No one is going to buy a club out hee that they can't test on the range first so if the off brands aren't at a place like golf town with a range simulator then they have to get out to the courses and do demo's. That might not apply everywhere but it does here. Also, a lot of the local club fitters don't seem to customize the off brands for you after a fitting. they have no problem putting shaft X and grip Y on a club but if it's a hard to get club (Powerbuilt, Wilson, Mirua), forget it.

 

As a side note, idiot advertising has actually turned me off a number of companies, Titelist/Taylormade being the cheif culprits. Conversly, I would never have tried a Cobra club until that amusing driver commerical where they make a big of fun at Poulter's wardrobe. Marketing is an odd, odd world.

[Justin66]

I guess as a side to the advertising, demo days seem to be a big thing out west. No one is going to buy a club out hee that they can't test on the range first so if the off brands aren't at a place like golf town with a range simulator then they have to get out to the courses and do demo's. That might not apply everywhere but it does here. Also, a lot of the local club fitters don't seem to customize the off brands for you after a fitting. they have no problem putting shaft X and grip Y on a club but if it's a hard to get club (Powerbuilt, Wilson, Mirua), forget it.

 

As a side note, idiot advertising has actually turned me off a number of companies, Titelist/Taylormade being the cheif culprits. Conversly, I would never have tried a Cobra club until that amusing driver commerical where they make a big of fun at Poulter's wardrobe. Marketing is an odd, odd world.

 

 

I won't jump on any OEM's bandwagon, but a good commercial is a good commercial. Cobra's are always good- JB Holmes and Poulter's are the best, in my opinion. It looks like actual fear in David Feherety's eyes when Holmes hits that "walk-off HR".

 

You're right, though, Awincey... getting to demo something does make a big difference. Just as it's different for you where you're at, it's different for me where I'm at because we don't have demo days, or a Golfsmith/Golfworks convieniently located... trust me, it sucks. I don't understand why your fitters won't do that; that doesn't make sense. Besides getting the business, it isn't like any off brand has some crazy way of putting a club together, or spec sizes different from the norm. Weird.

[Xamilo]

Its all about availability. I ain't buying an $800 iron set unless I can demo them first. I use Wilson Staff Ci7 now, but I have to admit I was crazy for getting some Mizunos or Nakashimas (since I love their wedges) at that time.

 

Availability? NONE. I wasn't able to hit but some MX-1000 which were not of my taste. I bought the Ci7s because they were ONLY $300 NEW and thought If they sucked I wasn't loosing that much money. They were an awesome surprise and I really really love them, but I wouldn't have even looked a them if they where around $700 like the MX-300s I wanted so badly where.

 

80% of the pro-shops in Australia for example (at least in Sydney) carry Callaway, Taylormade, and PING. A few carry Titleist, just a couple Cobra, and very very very few Mizunos or Wilson Staff, or any other smaller brand.

 

TM for example does excellent equipment, just a little bit overpriced, and availability is 20 times of any other brand.

 

Its easy to understand why most people buy OEMs...

[SPY ZINGER]

R & D. Callaway, Titleist, TM, et., al. employ some of the best engineers money can buy. Millions of dollars go into the design of the latest heads. There is not a component company on the market that can come close to competing Callaway and Taylor Made for distance/forgiveness on off center hits. If a major OEM's flagship product is sitting right next to a bang o matic for the same price, you can bet I am going to purchase the one that has been designed by the best in the industry.

[Xamilo]

There is not a component company on the market that can come close to competing Callaway and Taylor Made for distance/forgiveness on off center hits.

 

How about other brands? Do you think Mizuno Irons, TourEdge Exotics Woods, Scratch Wedges or ANY Miura club can compete with your beloved Callaway? Or are they all junk as well?

[Justin66]

How about other brands? Do you think Mizuno Irons, TourEdge Exotics Woods, Scratch Wedges or ANY Miura club can compete with your beloved Callaway? Or are they all junk as well?

 

 

Not to pile on, but look at the "retread" ideas... there's been three companies to use the "Y-tuning port". Mizuno started it, then Adams and now Taylormade. An OEM copying an OEM copying an OEM. That isn't much "R&D", in my eyes. Besides, there are just as many OEMs going with "open molds", where they go to the foundry and pick a design they like, as there are OEMs doing actual research and development. Conversely, there are component brands that do their own R&D just as there are component brands going with "open molds". There are no "angels" in golf equipment, no matter how much they spin it.

[Dave]

How about other brands? Do you think Mizuno Irons, TourEdge Exotics Woods, Scratch Wedges or ANY Miura club can compete with your beloved Callaway? Or are they all junk as well?

 

 

Not one of those manufacturers you've mentioned are components.

[Tyk]

Its almost all marketing, imo. People will play what they've seen, and for the most part, what they see is what's put in front of them. They are willing to some extent to expand beyond that to what they come across in the golf shop, and perhaps seek something out that a friend has clued them in on, but they're not going to go past that most of the time without some compelling reason.

 

And you can't blame anyone, that's what marketing IS and that is exactly why they do it. Its not like we're blameless here or doing something different. Take a look at MyGolfSpy's Top Secret Photos forum. On the first page, there's ONE smaller company mentioned, and that's the Tommy Armour Scratch clubs. One other look at Wilson's gear (are they considered a small company now?), the rest of it is Callaway, Ping, Taylormade, Cobra & Cleveland. . . Again, not a bad thing, but these are the big companies that everyone knows and like it or not its what most people are going to play and be curious about.

[Justin66]

R & D. Callaway, Titleist, TM, et., al. employ some of the best engineers money can buy. Millions of dollars go into the design of the latest heads. There is not a component company on the market that can come close to competing Callaway and Taylor Made for distance/forgiveness on off center hits. If a major OEM's flagship product is sitting right next to a bang o matic for the same price, you can bet I am going to purchase the one that has been designed by the best in the industry.

 

 

First of all, no one brand, component or otherwise, is "better" at distance/forgiveness. I average 265 with my Acer XK on clean strikes; my off-center hits are still going about 230-240. Brand names don't govern stuff like that... physics does. It's like an equation: face design (horizontal bulge) + clubhead MOI + shaft torque = overall forgiveness. If you have a Callaway head and couple it with a shaft that has too much/too little torque for your swing, you're going to have accuracy issues. If you have a Bang head with the proper shaft for your swing, you will see very impressive results. It works in reverse, as well: a Callaway head with the right shaft will perform beautifully and a Bang head with the wrong shaft will perform poorly. Feel free to insert other brand names as you prefer.

 

The part I highlighted is what we like to call "brandwashing". If you like to play Callaway's, cool, but that doesn't make them "best". "Best" is a relative term, dependant upon the needs/wants of the individual.

[Justin66]

Not one of those manufacturers you've mentioned are components.

 

True, but I think I get what he's saying: these are "lesser" brands in the OEM scale. Would these be considered inferior to the "mainstream" OEMs, since they aren't in everyone's face making claims at being the "best"? Maybe just a shade "better" than components? That's bumpkiss, but the typical line of thinking, for those not so initiated.

[Tony Covey MGS]

I'd actually argue that Miura is 90%+ a component company. In the US you won't find them in your big box stores or most proshops. Their business model is to sell directly through club fitters/builders who assemble the clubs to YOUR specifications.

[SPY ZINGER]

How about other brands? Do you think Mizuno Irons, TourEdge Exotics Woods, Scratch Wedges or ANY Miura club can compete with your beloved Callaway? Or are they all junk as well?

Yep, all junk.

 

Of course not. I've got Scratch wedges in the bag right now, and consider all you mentioned OEM's. I am referencing pure component products in my earlier post and included et. al. in naming the big three. I do not consider Miura to be a component company, no. Components such as the one I referenced is what I was referring to.

 

I am taking the variable of the shaft out of the equation and assuming you have one fit to the head. Comparing the heads alone, the component companies cannot compete in ball speed, distance, and forgiveness for the average player.

[Xamilo]

Not one of those manufacturers you've mentioned are components.

 

That's precisely why I asked "how about other brands", because his statement on components was clear enough.

[Xamilo]

I am taking the variable of the shaft out of the equation and assuming you have one fit to the head. Comparing the heads alone, the component companies cannot compete in ball speed, distance, and forgiveness for the average player.

 

With the same shaft, same fit, same loft, etc, do you think a Taylormade Burner 07 Driver performs poorly next to a New Burner Superdeep for example, if you hit both in the sweet spot? Would you notice any difference at all performance wise?

[Dave]

With the same shaft, same fit, same loft, etc, do you think a Taylormade Burner 07 Driver performs poorly next to a New Burner Superdeep for example, if you hit both in the sweet spot? Would you notice any difference at all performance wise?

 

 

Of course you would, spin rates, launch angle, forgiveness.

 

What spy is getting at,is if you assembled 2 clubs, same shafts,grips, lengths, SW's, different heads. 1 a component and the OEM over the same age and relative design, that the OEM will the majority of the time, give better results than the component.

[cheymike]

I'll throw a component name in here just to stir the pot. Try telling Tom Wishon his components can't compete.

[Justin66]

Of course you would, spin rates, launch angle, forgiveness.

 

What spy is getting at,is if you assembled 2 clubs, same shafts,grips, lengths, SW's, different heads. 1 a component and the OEM over the same age and relative design, that the OEM will the majority of the time, give better results than the component.

 

That is untrue. I'm living proof. I have a Nike SuMo 5000 with a Grafalloy ProLaunch Platinum that I hit ~265 (44.5", D4 swing weight). I also have an Acer XK with a True Ace Blue Crush (same specs) that I hit the same distance... How is an OEM "better"? Not only that, the Nike cost me $350 ($300 for the driver brand new, $50 for the shaft new), the Acer cost me $77 ($60 for brand new head, $17 for a brand new shaft)... hmmm. Both have Black Widow Tour Silk grips, if that also helps.

 

I'll throw a component name in here just to stir the pot. Try telling Tom Wishon his components can't compete.

 

Bingo. I bet Ralph Maltby and Jeff Summitt would feel the same, as well.

[cheymike]

Bingo. I bet Ralph Maltby and Jeff Summitt would feel the same, as well.

Yep... between the 3 of them, they've probably designed more successful and innovative clubs than all the OEM's, who now have their own engineers, combined.

[Xamilo]

Of course you would, spin rates, launch angle, forgiveness.

 

What spy is getting at,is if you assembled 2 clubs, same shafts,grips, lengths, SW's, different heads. 1 a component and the OEM over the same age and relative design, that the OEM will the majority of the time, give better results than the component.

 

I know what he is getting at, which I disagree completely (A Tom Wishon Driver head would be my example), but I just wanted to know if he was one of the people getting "20yds longer" and a "higher MOI (even though it has reached a limit due to the 460cc heads)" every year when buying his new driver, since the "engineers" in Callaway or Taylormade are so much better than any other in any other component or leser OEM company that they surely outdo themselves every 6 months

 

And I don't think there is a difference in an 07 Burner or a New Burner. I shafted both with the same VS Proto with same specs (same lenth as well, not the 57in shafts TM drivers come with right now) and distance wise there is absolutely no difference betwee both driver heads, as there is none between them and a 919 Wishon Driver Head.

[cheymike]

Ahhh.. and now the root of the problem that brought on the original statement shows itself.

[Justin66]

Jeff Summitt is the only one I've heard say something in this vein: don't insult anyone. You can just say something like "They have a different ideaology than mine. This is what I believe..." Make an effort not to sound like a douchebag. Yes, that was also a paraphrase. Without condoning- or condemning- other's methods, I feel stuff like that should be taken with a grain of salt. Look at Mike Stachura: he's an equipment editor for Golf Digest and probably one of the biggest jerks I've ever heard or read about (calling people "pretenders" for not upgrading to the new and shiny every two years), as far as golf equipment goes... yet he still has a job. Everyone has their own way. Some people gravitate towards certain methods, others can't stand it. To each their own, I suppose.

[Shambles]

I'm disinclined to accept that there are special secrets available in boutique products other than that they generate curiosity and cost a lot. Likewise, I'm also disinclined to accept the latest offerings from large producers as better and straighter or longer or both, whatever the current buzz words might be. In the 60's or thereabouts, the selling point was 5 or 10 yards longer. These days it seems to be secret science described with fun words that hint at the selling point.

 

I'm of the opinion that we buy from large manufacturers for the same reason we patronize certain brands of RTW. They happen to have a formula that suits us. We look into the boutiques because of curiosity and possibly boredom with the formula you already know very well and are slightly bored with. A set of clubs that work differently certainly motivates me to think more about the swing and what are my skill limits. Change for the sake of change is one of a multitude of ways in which we can maintain interest in a sport wherein we strike a plateau in skills and performance development. It's a milder form of buying new clubs in desperation when the wheels come off of your game.

 

I doubt there is much difference other than the quality of management between the boutiques and the components. They strike me as two sides of the same coin and appear to be coming to convergence, but that would probably be another topic.

 

 

Shambles