NPG Episode 37: Popular Golf Balls NOT Round?!

[MattWillGolf]

The ball testing is going to be epic. I am really intrigued by the examination of balls from tour players. I think we have been led to believe that there is a difference between tour balls and consumer balls.

I don't think I have ever blamed a ball for a poor shot. Now we have access to a new excuse! Thanks MGS! 

[chisag]

... Fwiw, this is from MG golf and it is the description of the bulk Chrome Soft balls they sell:


These brand new balls (NOT logo overruns or X-outs) include Callaway's "Tour Select" versions—very special balls provided only to Callway's PGA Tour pros (including the elite pros whose names you would immediately recognize) and receive a VIP level of QC. Being tweaked for pro players (and not intended for public sale), they have slight variations to the standard Chrome Soft sidestamp (like a "+" or "★" appended). They are of course USGA conforming.

[Quigleyd]

I am wondering if there is a single piece of golf equipment that is as divisive as the ball..Lots of emotion around it. 

[cnosil]

I am wondering if there is a single piece of golf equipment that is as divisive as the ball..Lots of emotion around it. 

In my mind putters are probably more divisive than balls.

[Quigleyd]

4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

In my mind putters are probably more divisive than balls.

Maybe, I guess where there are lots of options. Like putters and balls you get lots of opinions. 

[Golfspy_CG2]

On 5/11/2020 at 6:05 PM, Middler said:

Enjoyed today’s YT episode as always. 
 

I’m anxious to see the ball test. Fingers crossed my favorite brand fares OK...

And I’ve been playing golf to support my regular public course. I wasn’t sure if carts were revenue neutral or not, still don’t know. I hadn’t thought about the revenue lost from the pro shop, grill and beverages. Our twice a week league is suspended but I’ve emailed the leader to see if we can’t restart even if it’s just golf without the standard scoring and closest to the pin payoffs and some other amenities. Many league guys are playing anyway, no reason I can think of we can’t play together with standard course distancing and other measures they’ve put in place. The extremely vulnerable need to stay at home, but that’s an individual call.

As for the leagues, I'll get to that in just a minute below

 We just opened last week and we did it in quick stages.  Walking only no F&B all tee times paid online or over the phone in advance, pro shop, putting green and range all closed. 

The next day, we let carts out as single riders with still everything else closed.

The third day, we added take out pre ordered (over the phone or through our app) F&B including beer. 

We plan to open the range and putting green next week, if we can be sure of creating a plan to keep large groups gathering close by. 

We have had full tee sheets every day.   At this time we are offering walking rates and riding rates, in the past there was no discount for walking as 98% of our play took carts. We may evaluate this once we go back to normal, there's been a larger than expected demand for walking only.  We have a very spread out long course, so it's a bit of a surprise.

OK Leagues.

We have a leagues four days  a week, and two of them on Thursday.  The big issue is the 50 to 80 person shotgun starts, with everyone congregating around the staging area.  So leagues here will probably be at least a few weeks away, and even then we're talking about doing it in tee times from say 4:00 to 5:30 and once they are gone the league is filled up that week. 

I'm sure there will be some complaints, but I think every course has to error on the side of caution in these early days.  No course wants to end up as the lead story on the 6:00 news for being unsafe. 

On 5/11/2020 at 8:25 PM, Subdiver1 said:

I am also not a big fan of pod casts, though I get the medium; sometimes I just want to be about to skim the material to get to the parts I want know about, other times it is a great way to occupy the other part of my brain while I am "working" on something else; the problem there is that I occasionally find myself having to go back and rewind several times to catch what I missed while focused on that other thing. 

I am really interested in seeing the results here.  Especially how companies like Vice and Snell come out in comparison with Titleist and Bridgestone.  As a Quality Manager I could go into Six Sigma and all the variation numbers etc. but the bottom line is that there is really only a set allowable variation from "conformance" for a product to be considered "quality."  Some of that acceptable variation his based on cost of conformance and cost of inspection, but in reality, there is a lot to be said for reliving a consistent product to your customer; this report could really have an impact on the industry, or at least the consumer base.  It is interesting that the Pro's balls were consistently 5 compression points higher than the over the counter copies.  

Shifting topics a bit to the return to play discussion; I am going to leave the comments on "safety alone out of respect to the forum standards that I was told to read when I signed up.  I will chime in on the restaurant topic though.  Here in WA fast food drive throughs have been open for weeks, and restaurants have been open for take out as well; so we are all perplexed as to why we cannot get a take-out burger in the middle or at the end of a round; I'll leave the details of those discussions out of this post, but leave you with this, the standards are just not standard even when it applies to apples to apples industries.  So, the restaurant in our downtown area is operating, and the restaurant at one of our public, non-minu's has been operating as well (of course they stayed open for golf for "members" through the State mandated shutdown - Cheers to them, I almost bit the bullet and went in on an annual membership), However the restaurants at our city run muni and one of the casino owned courses have not yet opened even for take out.  But honestly, with all of the rules imposed on course management I applaud them for just getting open for play at this point.

Anyway, thanks for the pod cast and I am really looking forward to seeing the results as they come out.  Might even have to go hit one of those PXG drivers when the fitter opens up across the water.  Cheers folks. 

See above on our F&B.  We have one of the most cautious GM's around...but we have come up with an effective way to serve most everything from our grill on a pre order take out basis and all the golfers have been very accommodating.  We aren't making nearly as much as we would if we were allowed to have the bar open where players could sit, eat and drink afterwards, but it's something. 

 

 

[Subdiver1]

On 5/11/2020 at 6:21 PM, chisag said:

... Subdiver I am gonna make a guess as to why golf course restaurants remain closed. Alcohol. In Illinois you can't bring your own on the course and with pretty strict rules in place like tee times 2 comes only and 15 minutes apart, no carts unless handicapped and the clubhouse closed so all payments are online before arriving. I could see "some" throwing a fit if alcohol was not served and of course I could see social distancing and other rules going out the window if alcohol was served. Obviously it would be the few ruining it for the many but alcohol is sometimes a problem before Covid rules and could certainly be a problem after since the work force is skeleton at best. Because I can't see any other reason take out only, thru the outside window would be anymore of a problem than all the restaurants that are doing the same thing.

 

@chisag, Yeah, I wondered and talked to several folks about it.  The most frequent response was that they (management) was focused on figuring out how to work within the boundaries of the new rules and make things work on the course, like 2-somes only and individual carts etc.   One of the big issues was having enough carts and also trying to "police" everyone to keep from having and issue with local...umm..."authorities"(?).  A couple of the courses just don't have enough of an off course draw to make the restaurants a priority, but knowing the income margin for food and beverage over golf itself, it seems like it would make sense to try and get those moving.  We actually had the beverage carts out and circulating pretty quick, so there does not seem to be a concern about alcohol, here anyway; and plenty of folks here bring their own coolers.  I do hear what you are saying and all of your points make a certain amount of sense.  The roll out plan reported by Golfspy_CG2 above sounds like a well phased plan.  

We actually got the report this morning that courses are going to foursomes; my big question on that will revolve around having enough carts to do individual carts.  One of the courses up here has the golf boards, which seem like they would be a great alternative especially right now, to having four full size carts running around every fairway.      

[Subdiver1]

On 5/15/2020 at 11:04 AM, Golfspy_CG2 said:

As for the leagues, I'll get to that in just a minute below

 We just opened last week and we did it in quick stages.  Walking only no F&B all tee times paid online or over the phone in advance, pro shop, putting green and range all closed. 

The next day, we let carts out as single riders with still everything else closed.

The third day, we added take out pre ordered (over the phone or through our app) F&B including beer. 

We plan to open the range and putting green next week, if we can be sure of creating a plan to keep large groups gathering close by. 

We have had full tee sheets every day.   At this time we are offering walking rates and riding rates, in the past there was no discount for walking as 98% of our play took carts. We may evaluate this once we go back to normal, there's been a larger than expected demand for walking only.  We have a very spread out long course, so it's a bit of a surprise.

OK Leagues.

We have a leagues four days  a week, and two of them on Thursday.  The big issue is the 50 to 80 person shotgun starts, with everyone congregating around the staging area.  So leagues here will probably be at least a few weeks away, and even then we're talking about doing it in tee times from say 4:00 to 5:30 and once they are gone the league is filled up that week. 

I'm sure there will be some complaints, but I think every course has to error on the side of caution in these early days.  No course wants to end up as the lead story on the 6:00 news for being unsafe. 

See above on our F&B.  We have one of the most cautious GM's around...but we have come up with an effective way to serve most everything from our grill on a pre order take out basis and all the golfers have been very accommodating.  We aren't making nearly as much as we would if we were allowed to have the bar open where players could sit, eat and drink afterwards, but it's something. 

 

 

@Golfspy_CG2, Sounds like a sound plan.  We are doing leagues, but no shotgun start tournaments for the same reasons you list.  That makes sense.  The struggle we faced with league play was trying to get 48 or more players off as two-somes; when you go from 12 tee times to 24 tee times if really stresses the window and it isn't like we can start early on a weekday as most of the players are still working regular days.  The one item that really has me perplexed is not having holes on the putting greens; why not have holes, but not the flags/sticks?  I get the whole keep multiple people from touching the same surfaces, but I don't really understand not having a hole (Fortunately, for me, I have one of those Odyssey putting targets I can toss out to putt at).  I think your GM sounds like a pretty practical guy and like you said, you may not be making a mint with crowded restaurant/bar, but al least everyone is able to get something.  I had a Commanding Officer impart a good bit of wisdom on us many years ago, he said, "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people, all of the time; so don't get too worried about the few who will always be happy, no matter what you do."

Honestly, if my round today was any indication of how my game is developing, I might need them to open the bar so I can stay in there and save the real golfers from being embarrassed by my presence.

Thanks for the read.

[Golfspy_CG2]

28 minutes ago, Subdiver1 said:

@Golfspy_CG2, Sounds like a sound plan.  We are doing leagues, but no shotgun start tournaments for the same reasons you list.  That makes sense.  The struggle we faced with league play was trying to get 48 or more players off as two-somes; when you go from 12 tee times to 24 tee times if really stresses the window and it isn't like we can start early on a weekday as most of the players are still working regular days.  The one item that really has me perplexed is not having holes on the putting greens; why not have holes, but not the flags/sticks?  I get the whole keep multiple people from touching the same surfaces, but I don't really understand not having a hole (Fortunately, for me, I have one of those Odyssey putting targets I can toss out to putt at).  I think your GM sounds like a pretty practical guy and like you said, you may not be making a mint with crowded restaurant/bar, but al least everyone is able to get something.  I had a Commanding Officer impart a good bit of wisdom on us many years ago, he said, "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people, all of the time; so don't get too worried about the few who will always be happy, no matter what you do."

Honestly, if my round today was any indication of how my game is developing, I might need them to open the bar so I can stay in there and save the real golfers from being embarrassed by my presence.

Thanks for the read.

Yeah I understand what you are saying about the start time of the leagues. It definitely cuts down on the number of players.  With the 4 groups per hour.  We'd only end up with 24 players each week.  I guess we could go off each 9 and end up with 48.  We ended up doing that thing past couple years when our turnout was becoming 60 to 70 a week. 

But you are so correct. No matter what we do, there will be some complaints.  So you have to just stick with what you think fits the majority of people and that makes the course management feel confident they are providing a safe environment without going too far. 

[Subdiver1]

12 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Yeah I understand what you are saying about the start time of the leagues. It definitely cuts down on the number of players.  With the 4 groups per hour.  We'd only end up with 24 players each week.  I guess we could go off each 9 and end up with 48.  We ended up doing that thing past couple years when our turnout was becoming 60 to 70 a week. 

But you are so correct. No matter what we do, there will be some complaints.  So you have to just stick with what you think fits the majority of people and that makes the course management feel confident they are providing a safe environment without going too far. 

We are fortunate to have a home course with 36 holes so we have been splitting the league up for several years; each team starts on one course one week and the other the following week and our AMAZING league managers (and the course folks) have done a very good job at rotating everyone and the opponents so the play is balanced between courses throughout the season.  We played twosomes the first two weeks after opening this year for handicap establishment and it was shaping up to be interesting having to play that way by either splitting up teams to play with your opponent or having to correlate cards between teams after the round for points.  I am sure the announcement that the course is going back to foursomes next week is a relief to our managers.  Like you say, there is a balance and you just have to hope that most people can agree on what that balance point is.

Cheers.  

[Golfspy_CG2]

11 hours ago, Subdiver1 said:

We are fortunate to have a home course with 36 holes so we have been splitting the league up for several years; each team starts on one course one week and the other the following week and our AMAZING league managers (and the course folks) have done a very good job at rotating everyone and the opponents so the play is balanced between courses throughout the season.  We played twosomes the first two weeks after opening this year for handicap establishment and it was shaping up to be interesting having to play that way by either splitting up teams to play with your opponent or having to correlate cards between teams after the round for points.  I am sure the announcement that the course is going back to foursomes next week is a relief to our managers.  Like you say, there is a balance and you just have to hope that most people can agree on what that balance point is.

Cheers.  

We are 36 holes as well, and do the weekly rotation also. 

I guess we are in the minority of most leagues.  Ours is individual stroke play with weekly individual layouts and a season long Fed Ex Cup  style standings.  We have a 32 person field match play payoffs at the end.  

So when split play between the nines, we have to have payouts for each side and award points for each side. 

It worked ok last year except the guys who tend to place 1st or 2nd each week complained about smaller payouts when we didn't have both courses filled.  

But overall everyone seems to like the individual play. Many of them play in a team league on another night at another local course. 

[Albatrass]

On 5/8/2020 at 8:09 PM, GolfSpy MPR said:

1:40 - PXG Drivers Only $295?
13:21 - Has Honma finally cracked the code?
29:53 - #BallLab: Not Round + Non-Conforming Golf Balls
51:24 - Golf Courses Busy But Not Making Money?
1:04:33 - Coming soon! PGA Tour 2K21

 Listen to NPG:

• SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/mygolfspy/no-putts-given-37
• iTune: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/popular-golf-balls-not-round-npg-37/id1356729135?i=1000474041735

 Watch NPG:

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Q_u8OQnSM

The section at 29.53 Not round-non conforming golf balls was really interesting.  Wonder if the pro's who are provided balls are hand picked and measured to make sure they are round and conform?

[Bob Jerabek]

It is a shame you pay for a premium ball and it is sub standard.