Anybody seen this?

[TBT]

OnCore is releases a phone app that uses the camera to read putts!?!

 

https://www.oncoregolf.com/products/greenbreaker-app/?utm_campaign=Greenbreaker_copy_1&utm_content=touchpoint_1_message_b&utm_medium=email&utm_source=zaius

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

[tony@CIC]

11 hours ago, TBT said:

 

OnCore is releases a phone app that uses the camera to read putts!?!

 

https://www.oncoregolf.com/products/greenbreaker-app/?utm_campaign=Greenbreaker_copy_1&utm_content=touchpoint_1_message_b&utm_medium=email&utm_source=zaius

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

 

Hmm pretty interesting price point- have you checked out how many course greens are mapped? Golflogix has a similar feature - not sure about the cost, however, my home courses both in Ohio* and Florida don't have greens mapping available. 

*It's weird that they don't show our course greens as available (and said so in an email inquiry), since one of my golfing buds has a greens book from Golf Logix. 

[golfinnut]

I saw this too.  It would just mean you have one more thing in your pocket.  And with the size of some of these smart phones these days, you might as well have a Surface Pro in your pocket.  LOL 

I don't see the need for anything like this TBH.  Green reading is a part of the game that you have to learn.  Being a good green reader takes time & practice, so why take that away from the game.  That's why I understand the PGA is going to ban the "green reading" part of the pro's yardage books.  It gives you an unfair advantage in my mind.  

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, golfinnut said:

That's why I understand the PGA is going to ban the "green reading" part of the pro's yardage books.

Do you have a source for this?  The USGA has instituted rules regarding the scale and level of detail allowed  for any kind of written mapping, particularly aimed at green mapping.  In general, the PGA has not disallowed anything which is specifically allowed under the Rules of Golf, unless there's an approved Model Local Rule.   

As for the app shown from Oncore, its certainly not legal under the rules.  From 4.3a(1):

Quote

Not Allowed.

Measuring elevation changes, or

Interpreting distance or directional information (such as using a device to get a recommended line of play or club selection based on the location of the player’s ball).

As I understand the marketing, the app uses your phone's camera to measure slopes (basically elevation changes_ and to recommend a line of play.  

[golfinnut]

3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Do you have a source for this?  The USGA has instituted rules regarding the scale and level of detail allowed  for any kind of written mapping, particularly aimed at green mapping.  In general, the PGA has not disallowed anything which is specifically allowed under the Rules of Golf, unless there's an approved Model Local Rule.   

As for the app shown from Oncore, its certainly not legal under the rules.  From 4.3a(1):

As I understand the marketing, the app uses your phone's camera to measure slopes (basically elevation changes_ and to recommend a line of play.  

I know the Masters doesn't even allow it.  But for some reason I heard just yesterday on the telecast something about it being banned.  I thought it was in discussion for a while.  I can't find specific info on it yet.  But I'm still looking  

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, golfinnut said:

I know the Masters doesn't even allow it.  But for some reason I heard just yesterday on the telecast something about it being banned.  I thought it was in discussion for a while.  I can't find specific info on it yet.  But I'm still looking  

The Masters has never allowed anyone access to the course to do the mapping.  The Rules of Golf still allow someone to bring his own written maps, and Augusta hasn't done anything to override the RoG, but green mapping isn't possible without physical access to the course.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the commentators said something about banning the greens books, but most of the commentators aren't particularly knowledgeable about the Rules, or how such a ban might be effected.  My best guess is that the USGA would have liked to find a way to ban the greens books, but couldn't figure out how to do it without banning all written materials.  The best they could do was to limit the scale and the overall size of the maps.

[cnosil]

I know the Masters doesn't even allow it.  But for some reason I heard just yesterday on the telecast something about it being banned.  I thought it was in discussion for a while.  I can't find specific info on it yet.  But I'm still looking  

The masters provides a book with some contour information for major slopes. The PGA limits size and scale.

Everything I see written describes what is allowed in generalities. How much information is a player allowed to add or annotate in the provided book? I’d love to see some of the books at the end of the week or after multiple events.

[golfinnut]

6 minutes ago, cnosil said:

The masters provides a book with some contour information for major slopes. The PGA limits size and scale.

Everything I see written describes what is allowed in generalities. How much information is a player allowed to add or annotate in the provided book? I’d love to see some of the books at the end of the week or after multiple events.

From what I've read, they don't provide anything.  The players have to use their intuition & previous years books with all of their notes.  So if you're a rookie & have never seen Augusta, you are pretty much SOL.  You better spend a lot of time on the greens the days before the tournament starts.     Basically, the Masters has it's own rules 

[DaveP043]

22 minutes ago, cnosil said:

The masters provides a book with some contour information for major slopes. The PGA limits size and scale.

Everything I see written describes what is allowed in generalities. How much information is a player allowed to add or annotate in the provided book? I’d love to see some of the books at the end of the week or after multiple events.

Those limitations are from the USGA, Interpretation 4.3a/1.  I imagine the green contour information provided by the Masters is similar to that traditionally provided in yardage books for decades.  That commonly shows general slope directions, and any sharp breaks in terrain, with appropriate distance from the front edge.  Handwritten information can be used, but the same size and scale limitations apply.

13 minutes ago, golfinnut said:

From what I've read, they don't provide anything.  The players have to use their intuition & previous years books with all of their notes.  So if you're a rookie & have never seen Augusta, you are pretty much SOL.  You better spend a lot of time on the greens the days before the tournament starts.     Basically, the Masters has it's own rules 

This article talks about the yardage books issued to each player each year:

https://www.augusta.com/masters/story/masters/yardage-book-playing-book

But where many (most?) tournaments will include detailed greens books, the Masters chooses not to.  And players cannot get a greens book from other sources because Augusta National won't let Stracka or anyone else onto the ground to do the measurements.

And no, the Masters doesn't have its own rules, they use the Rules of Golf just like everyone else does.

Edited April 5, 2021 by DaveP043

[cnosil]

From what I've read, they don't provide anything.  The players have to use their intuition & previous years books with all of their notes.  So if you're a rookie & have never seen Augusta, you are pretty much SOL.  You better spend a lot of time on the greens the days before the tournament starts.     Basically, the Masters has it's own rules 

Per an article in October of last year:

Golf’s governing bodies proposed greatly limiting the amount of data found in these books in 2018 before ultimately deciding to only limit their scale and size. But at Augusta National, which has always played by its own set of rules, the topographical maps that plot putting surfaces down to the tenth of a degree of slope are not allowed. Instead, all Masters competitors are provided with yardage books that only show the location and direction of major slopes in the greens.



https://www.golfdigest.com/story/masters-2020-the-augusta-national-rule-that-could-keep-bryson-dechambeau-from-winning-green-jacket


This is why seeing what is provided and what the players are allowed to document would be more relevant.

[golfinnut]

4 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

And no, the Masters doesn't have its own rules, they use the Rules of Golf just like everyone else does.

Then why are they the only tournament that does it this way?  Rules for both players & patrons.  No cell phones, no cameras, etc.  That sounds like different rules to me.    

[DaveP043]

1 minute ago, golfinnut said:

Then why are they the only tournament that does it this way?  Rules for both players & patrons.  No cell phones, no cameras, etc.  That sounds like different rules to me.    

The Masters chooses to set itself apart from the rest of the golf world in many ways, but they play by the Rules of Golf.  Yes, they have different policies for spectators, but that has nothing to do with the Rules of Golf.   They may have some different policies for the players, all acceptable under the Rules as part of the Code of Conduct for the event, or as a Local Rule regarding Pace of Play.  From a golf standpoint,  the Masters is run in complete accordance with the Rules of Golf.  The Masters doesn't prohibit anyone from bringing in his own green-reading book, but its basically impossible to create one yourself.  You need access to do the laser measurement of the greens to produce detailed green mapping.  

[DaveP043]

40 minutes ago, cnosil said:

This is why seeing what is provided and what the players are allowed to document would be more relevant.

You can see some pages from an older yardage book here, with notes by Ian Poulter:

https://golf.com/news/tournaments/masters-yardage-book-ian-poulter-5th-hole/

And here's a more recent article:

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/masters-2021-collin-morikawa-augusta-national-yardage-book

Which includes the following:

Quote

Augusta does not permit green-reading books, mainly because they’ve never permitted someone to bring the laser technology onto the property and document the greens.

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by DaveP043

[cnosil]

 

Thanks for the newer link. Basically green books are allowed, Augusta provides the basics and you have to fill in the details you want. In my opinion the “no green reading books” statement is misleading. It would be more accurate to state that you cannot have a commercially made book; mostly because you can’t get on the course to do the work.