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Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News


Thin2win
Message added by GolfSpy_APH,

We haven't had to say this in a while, but as a reminder to all that we are keeping this thread to the golf/signings and related content.

We are not going to get into the politics of it all and where the money is coming from etc.

If you wish to comment on that aspect of it all please feel free to do so on other platforms. Not here.

While much of LIV has become more accepted over the years there are still those who feel strongly against it and the backing. We respect all those who are both for and against LIV, however will not tolerate going into the weeds of all the "other stuff"

If you are not sure whether you should post something either ask a mod or don't post it. 

As we have before we will continue to moderate, remove or edit posts that go against our moral code and members will receive alerts or warnings to follow.

Thank you

 

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It will indeed be interesting to see.  There are many near top shelf players who can opt to set themselves and their families up for life.  It will also be interesting to see if the PGA takes any punitive actions towards those choosing to play in these events.  Are they truly free-agents, free to choose without threat or not?

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12 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Are they truly free-agents, free to choose without threat or not?

They are truly free agents until they choose to give away some rights in return for membership in the PGA Tour.  Its not a one-way thing.  If they want automatic entry into PGA Tour events, based on Fedex points or tournament winnings, they need to follow the PGA Tour requirements.  If they choose not to be members of the Tour, maybe they need to go through Monday qualifying, assuming there's spots available for an event they want to enter.  Maybe the World Golf Rankings people don't recognize the other tour, due to contractual issues, so the LIV Tour players have to go through regional and sectional qualifying for the US and British Opens.  The more vocal players like the free agent stuff until it benefits them to be a member of something larger.  

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The Arena Football League, but with huge money from "scary mothers". What fun. I'll be disappointed if any quality PGA players play LIV...but I'm wrong all the time.

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25 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

They are truly free agents until they choose to give away some rights in return for membership in the PGA Tour.  Its not a one-way thing.  If they want automatic entry into PGA Tour events, based on Fedex points or tournament winnings, they need to follow the PGA Tour requirements.  If they choose not to be members of the Tour, maybe they need to go through Monday qualifying, assuming there's spots available for an event they want to enter.  Maybe the World Golf Rankings people don't recognize the other tour, due to contractual issues, so the LIV Tour players have to go through regional and sectional qualifying for the US and British Opens.  The more vocal players like the free agent stuff until it benefits them to be a member of something larger.  

So they are "free agents" in name only.  My hunch is that we'll see some of them choose to participate and make some big money they would not have likely earned showing up week in and week out on tour.  The rest will take notice and that may be the catalyst needed to start a trend.  Lot's of names that show up regularly but miss cuts or share the leftovers from the bottom half of the purse.  

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3 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

So they are "free agents" in name only.  My hunch is that we'll see some of them choose to participate and make some big money they would not have likely earned showing up week in and week out on tour.  The rest will take notice and that may be the catalyst needed to start a trend.  Lot's of names that show up regularly but miss cuts or share the leftovers from the bottom half of the purse.  

They aren’t free agents. independent contractors is probably a better name. They have membership to the pga and that comes with certain stipulations to maintain said memberships. 

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Just for kicks, some may be interested in reading the PGA Tour Player's Handbook, which details a lot of stuff, including the duties of the players, Eligibility and Qualifying matters, etc. 

edit to add the link:

https://qualifying.pgatourhq.com/static-assets/uploads/2019-2020-pga-tour-handbook--regs-09_10_19.pdf

From the PGA Tour standpoint, they are running a bunch of tournaments for their members, giving their members great opportunities to win prize money.  You can read about the agreement the players make concerning Conflicting Events.  The player certainly has the right NOT to be a member of the tour, to play wherever he wants.  I'm no attorney, I don't know if a "lifetime" ban is enforceable, but a player who chooses to leave the Tour might be required to go through Korn Ferry qualifying to get back onto the tour.  Its interesting to me because I don't believe the LIV Tour needs to make money, or even break even, this seems to be a grand PR scheme by the Saudi bazillionaires to get positive press, as compared to the reports of the recent executions of 81 people.  If they lose just a few tens of millions of dollars, it might be worth it to them.

Edited by DaveP043

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I don't think they will have an issue filling their 54 person fields. 

Maybe the top 10-20 pga pros don't go to the first event, but players 70-200 that are out trying to make a living, not out to chase majors and HOF status.... Yeah, go where the money is. 

PGA membership only requires 15 PGA events played each year. Every member could easily fit a few of these into their schedule if they wanted. 

But $25 million for a limited no cut field... That is a bigger purse on day 1 then the PGA has ever had. The only negative to this, as I see it, is that it is being Suadi funded. If this was getting funding from anywhere else (Russia excluded), this would be welcomed with open arms I think. 

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6 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

I don't think they will have an issue filling their 54 person fields. 

Maybe the top 10-20 pga pros don't go to the first event, but players 70-200 that are out trying to make a living, not out to chase majors and HOF status.... Yeah, go where the money is. 

PGA membership only requires 15 PGA events played each year. Every member could easily fit a few of these into their schedule if they wanted. 

But $25 million for a limited no cut field... That is a bigger purse on day 1 then the PGA has ever had. The only negative to this, as I see it, is that it is being Suadi funded. If this was getting funding from anywhere else (Russia excluded), this would be welcomed with open arms I think. 

You think the top 70-200 aren’t trying to win a major? An event then can be life changing including some guaranteed time on the tour. The top 125 in FedEx cup points have membership on the tour. Do you think they aren’t trying to win a major or even a single event that gets them a guaranteed job for two years.

Look at the names in 70-200 especially the ones in 70-150. those names aren’t just out there trying to make a living

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1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

So they are "free agents" in name only.  My hunch is that we'll see some of them choose to participate and make some big money they would not have likely earned showing up week in and week out on tour.  The rest will take notice and that may be the catalyst needed to start a trend.  Lot's of names that show up regularly but miss cuts or share the leftovers from the bottom half of the purse.  

But if none of the top-20 or so players are in any of the LIV tournaments, will anyone watch or care?

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This topic has so much depth and so many different branches. I'm right along with the NLU crew and their thoughts and beliefs of this whole tour. 

I understand these guys want to make money and as Kokrak said his goal is to make as much money as possible in as little time as possible. The morality of it is just so suspect and to me bothersome. I truly hope that I don't see any of my favourite players jumping ship to go over there. 

I hope the PGA Tour is able to enforce their ban or restriction on players being able to play Tour events while playing in this league. 

We all want to make a living and to support our families, but at what moral cost? Anyway I won't go deeper into that, its a rabbit hole that is way too deep and has been spoken on by many podcasts at great length. 

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24 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

PGA membership only requires 15 PGA events played each year. Every member could easily fit a few of these into their schedule if they wanted. 

The PGA Tour also requires its members to get a "conflicting event release" each time they play in an event scheduled at the same time as a PGA Tour event.  Based on a player being in 15 Tour events, they would be eligible for three "conflicting Event Releases".  The Commissioner has a number of acceptable reasons to deny a specific request for a release.  Based on what I've read, and I haven't tried to read everything, players may have a really hard time straddling the fence on this one.

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6 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The PGA Tour also requires its members to get a "conflicting event release" each time they play in an event scheduled at the same time as a PGA Tour event.  Based on a player being in 15 Tour events, they would be eligible for three "conflicting Event Releases".  The Commissioner has a number of acceptable reasons to deny a specific request for a release.  Based on what I've read, and I haven't tried to read everything, players may have a really hard time straddling the fence on this one.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see who plays and how often they do. But if they sent out invites to 250 players (I think that is what I read). They will find players to fill the event. Maybe more from the DP tour, but they will get players, the money is just too much

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42 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

I don't think they will have an issue filling their 54 person fields. 

Maybe the top 10-20 pga pros don't go to the first event, but players 70-200 that are out trying to make a living, not out to chase majors and HOF status.... Yeah, go where the money is. 

PGA membership only requires 15 PGA events played each year. Every member could easily fit a few of these into their schedule if they wanted. 

But $25 million for a limited no cut field... That is a bigger purse on day 1 then the PGA has ever had. The only negative to this, as I see it, is that it is being Suadi funded. If this was getting funding from anywhere else (Russia excluded), this would be welcomed with open arms I think. 

That's the point I was making (or trying to).  Grind for lower odds and lower payouts, or suddenly become a top shelf player in  less competitive fields. For relatively new tour guys who don't have lots of time invested as in pension fund, etc., (Kokrak good example), this will be very enticing.  

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22 minutes ago, LICC said:

But if none of the top-20 or so players are in any of the LIV tournaments, will anyone watch or care?

Yes, I think so.  Let's not forget how many fans watch the Asian and Euro Tours.  Also, if this gets traction, I fully expect a move on the LPGA too ... let's see if the background sugar daddy's can wrap their heads around that dilemma 🤣.

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12 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

This topic has so much depth and so many different branches. I'm right along with the NLU crew and their thoughts and beliefs of this whole tour. 

I understand these guys want to make money and as Kokrak said his goal is to make as much money as possible in as little time as possible. The morality of it is just so suspect and to me bothersome. I truly hope that I don't see any of my favourite players jumping ship to go over there. 

I hope the PGA Tour is able to enforce their ban or restriction on players being able to play Tour events while playing in this league. 

We all want to make a living and to support our families, but at what moral cost? Anyway I won't go deeper into that, its a rabbit hole that is way too deep and has been spoken on by many podcasts at great length. 

The moral defense is so over done and disgusting. If you want to go down that road you'll find that almost everything we do, use, consume etc. on a daily basis is attached to a country with questionable background. My guess is we are using equipment made in China to discuss this, China is just slightly higher on the list than Saudi.  I understand that people don't want this league to succeed but to use the moral clause like Eamon Lynch has been doing and apparently the NLU guys makes no sense to me. 

 

2 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The PGA Tour also requires its members to get a "conflicting event release" each time they play in an event scheduled at the same time as a PGA Tour event.  Based on a player being in 15 Tour events, they would be eligible for three "conflicting Event Releases".  The Commissioner has a number of acceptable reasons to deny a specific request for a release.  Based on what I've read, and I haven't tried to read everything, players may have a really hard time straddling the fence on this one.

I agree that the Tour will make it difficult but from what I understand if/when it gets to court the tour will have a very tough time due to antitrust laws. 

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2 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I agree that the Tour will make it difficult but from what I understand if/when it gets to court the tour will have a very tough time due to antitrust laws. 

That's certainly what Greg Norman has claimed that his lawyers have told him, I have no idea if that's accurate or not.  If I'm a PGA Tour member, considering what to do in June, I'm damn sure going to get my own attorney involved.  And the attorneys will have visions of billable hours dancing in their heads.  Win or lose, the attorneys will win.

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2 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

That's certainly what Greg Norman has claimed that his lawyers have told him, I have no idea if that's accurate or not.  If I'm a PGA Tour member, considering what to do in June, I'm damn sure going to get my own attorney involved.  And the attorneys will have visions of billable hours dancing in their heads.  Win or lose, the attorneys will win.

Attorneys ALWAYS win. 

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1 hour ago, THEZIPR23 said:

The moral defense is so over done and disgusting. If you want to go down that road you'll find that almost everything we do, use, consume etc. on a daily basis is attached to a country with questionable background. My guess is we are using equipment made in China to discuss this, China is just slightly higher on the list than Saudi.  I understand that people don't want this league to succeed but to use the moral clause like Eamon Lynch has been doing and apparently the NLU guys makes no sense to me. 

 

I agree that the Tour will make it difficult but from what I understand if/when it gets to court the tour will have a very tough time due to antitrust laws. 

Beat me to it. 

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1 hour ago, THEZIPR23 said:

The moral defense is so over done and disgusting. If you want to go down that road you'll find that almost everything we do, use, consume etc. on a daily basis is attached to a country with questionable background. My guess is we are using equipment made in China to discuss this, China is just slightly higher on the list than Saudi.  I understand that people don't want this league to succeed but to use the moral clause like Eamon Lynch has been doing and apparently the NLU guys makes no sense to me. 

That is a horribly false moral equivalency. Buying basic products that you probably don't know where they were made, and don't have many other options, is in no way equivalent to joining a high-profile public greenwashing league and taking multi-millions of dollars from its benefactors.

Edited by LICC
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2 minutes ago, LICC said:

That is a horribly false moral equivalency. Buying basic products that you probably don't know where they were made, and don't have many other options, is in no way equivalent to joining a high-profile public greenwashing league and taking multi-millions of dollars from its benefactors.

People have options they just choose the easy route. If anyone doesn’t know that the vast majority of products they use on a daily basis come from China and other counties with various ethical issues they are just being ignorant. Manufacturing has been overseas for decades at this point.

Nearly everyone on this site is using devices to post that come from China. Also using equipment for a sport they like that comes from there too.

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16 minutes ago, LICC said:

That is a horribly false moral equivalency. Buying basic products that you probably don't know where they were made, and don't have many other options, is in no way equivalent to joining a high-profile public greenwashing league and taking multi-millions of dollars from its benefactors.

Ignorance is a terrible defense. 

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23 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

People have options they just choose the easy route. If anyone doesn’t know that the vast majority of products they use on a daily basis come from China and other counties with various ethical issues they are just being ignorant. Manufacturing has been overseas for decades at this point.

Nearly everyone on this site is using devices to post that come from China. Also using equipment for a sport they like that comes from there too.

Yup.  Remember the Nike "sweat shops" uproar?  Tiger renewed his contract with Phil for even BIGGER $$$ after this was outed; should he have been scorned in the court of public opinion over that decision?  History is littered with dirty money.  It's also littered with multiple sets of rules and standards that are, depending who is involved, not always applied uniformly.

 

2 hours ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I agree that the Tour will make it difficult but from what I understand if/when it gets to court the tour will have a very tough time due to antitrust laws. 

Recently read an article (unable to locate it again) that delves into this and it does make it sound like the PGA is on shaky ground depending on actions they take.  Best I could tell, the author was not connected to the PGA or LIV in anyway but worked in anti-trust law.

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5 minutes ago, 03trdblack said:

Enough of the cloak and dagger sh** and just announce who's playing already and let's get on with it.

I don’t think they know that her based on what I read. Invites havnet gone out for the events yet. Might be misreading that 

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I am one of the people that slows down to look at a car accident. I will be looking forward to see who's playing in these golf events. Actually hoping some of the higher ranked golfers test the water against the tour.

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On 3/17/2022 at 1:38 PM, THEZIPR23 said:

The moral defense is so over done and disgusting. If you want to go down that road you'll find that almost everything we do, use, consume etc. on a daily basis is attached to a country with questionable background. My guess is we are using equipment made in China to discuss this, China is just slightly higher on the list than Saudi.  I understand that people don't want this league to succeed but to use the moral clause like Eamon Lynch has been doing and apparently the NLU guys makes no sense to me. 

 

That's pretty hard to argue with.

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  • 1 month later...

Except it's the Saudi government creating and selling a product to help their image (i.e. sport washing) not just another company making a product to compete in the free market (cutting cost any way possible to increase profitability). 

I would just like the players to come out and say they are doing it for the money and not try to act like this group is going to create a better golf product or "grow the game". 

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9 hours ago, TBS said:

Except it's the Saudi government creating and selling a product to help their image (i.e. sport washing) not just another company making a product to compete in the free market (cutting cost any way possible to increase profitability). 

I would just like the players to come out and say they are doing it for the money and not try to act like this group is going to create a better golf product or "grow the game". 

Everyone who plays golf professionally is doing it for the money. I have no doubt that most golfers would like the game to grow so it puts more money in their pocket down the road. It appears that the PGA has denied the players their requested permission to play in the 1st LIV event. Personally, I hope the PGA Tour has legal action taken against them. What would stop them from advising current PGA players/members that they cannot play in any European Tour events in the future? To me it's just a pissing match between Jay Monahan and Greg Norman.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pga-tour-denies-players-permission-221303549.html

Edited by GaDawg

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47 minutes ago, GaDawg said:

Everyone who plays golf professionally is doing it for the money. I have no doubt that most golfers would like the game to grow so it puts more money in their pocket down the road. It appears that the PGA has denied the players their requested permission to play in the 1st LIV event. Personally, I hope the PGA Tour has legal action taken against them. What would stop them from advising current PGA players/members that they cannot play in any European Tour events in the future? To me it's just a pissing match between Jay Monahan and Greg Norman.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pga-tour-denies-players-permission-221303549.html

Someone will file a lawsuit .. not sure how it will go but usually how it ends up … def feels like a pissing match though 

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