Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News

[tony@CIC]

3 hours ago, RollingGreens said:

Can you imagine putting just one of these guys who have signed future contracts with LIV with one of the players who have strongly opposed LIV such as Billy Horschel. Keep the hot mics rolling! 

An even better example is Patrick Reed in that pairing with Horschel. Reed wasn't that well like before he left.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Kenny B said:

Rickie is happy that the judge didn't allow the 3 LIV players to play for the FedEx Cup.  Hope he takes advantage of it.

I hope so too, but recent history suggests he won’t finish high enough to make the cut for the next playoff event.

Not to mention he’s also going with a temporary caddy after splitting with his king time caddy.

52 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

There are also former college players who were never PGA Tour members. Can’t be banned from something you were never a member of to begin with. They’ll have options to play Asian Tour events, which have OWGR points awarded, and build status that way, which is sort of the “old fashioned” way to do it, eh?  Probably no forthcoming sponsors exemptions for those guys, but them’s the breaks when you’ve got a couple million in the bank to travel and play golf. 

This will be an interesting situation if it happens, but based on how small the owgr points are for Asian tour events they won’t be able to crack into the ranking needed to be eligible to take a spot in a tour event.

They would technically be eligible as non members like fleetwood and others have been in years past when they come over. However if they were to somehow secure an exemption via win or earn enough money I would imagine they would be denied due to LIV affiliation.

4 minutes ago, LICC said:

If you looked at the text messages with Sergio, it seems Norman was telling them that they wouldn't be banned from the PGA Tour at all, not now or down the road.

Again if they were listening to Norman while PGA commish was telling them they would be they are just ignorant 

[TBS]

Davis Love III on NLU podcast. Great long interview that gave me a lot more confidence in the PGA Tour surviving. Biggest takeaway - the PGA tour has been preparing for this long for a few years and I expect to see more players be outspoken about the lawsuit.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nlu-podcast-episode-590-davis-love-iii/id880837011?i=1000575722151

[LICC]

43 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Again if they were listening to Norman while PGA commish was telling them they would be they are just ignorant

And you keep overestimating them. They are jocks, not lawyers. One side is telling them one thing and the other side is telling them something else. They chose to believe the side that would give them the most money. Yes, they were stupid to believe Norman, but I absolutely believe that some of these guys accepted Norman's take and thought they would never be stopped from playing in both LIV and PGA Tour events. Gooch said just that after he was suspended- he planned to play the first LIV event and then next play the PGA Tour event.

[BIG STU]

3 hours ago, Middler said:

The lawsuit has not been decided, the judge just refused the request for a TRO that three LIV jerks wanted to allow them to play this years FedEx. I hope we can enjoy the next three weeks of FedEx without so much LIV nonsense.

I hope LIV and the PGA are kept entirely separate. LIV can play and grow their events, and the PGA can play and grow their events including the majors (that wouldn't exist without generations of PGA players). I hope they never play together, one or the other, not both. If LIV is successful long term, they can develop their own "majors" or marquee events.

I was using incorrect termilogy so to speak---- I was referring to the TRO as a law suit

[RollingGreens]

1 hour ago, TBS said:

Davis Love III on NLU podcast. Great long interview that gave me a lot more confidence in the PGA Tour surviving. Biggest takeaway - the PGA tour has been preparing for this long for a few years and I expect to see more players be outspoken about the lawsuit.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nlu-podcast-episode-590-davis-love-iii/id880837011?i=1000575722151

They do a great job of talking with people on the inner circles and portraying all the facts before making statements. I also wouldn’t say they are biased which makes most of their podcasts lately interesting to listen to 

[RollingGreens]

1 hour ago, tony@CIC said:

An even better example is Patrick Reed in that pairing with Horschel. Reed wasn't that well like before he left.  

Could you imagine those 2 together? Espescially if their was a questionable move by Pat. According to David Love on a podcast their are a lot of guys in the lunchrooms who have been more vocal than Billy Ho. 

[TBS]

3 minutes ago, RollingGreens said:

They do a great job of talking with people on the inner circles and portraying all the facts before making statements. I also wouldn’t say they are biased which makes most of their podcasts lately interesting to listen to 

Agree 100%! 

Too many people hear or read a few lines from their interviews and think they are biased and pro-PGA Tour, when all they want is a good pro golf viewing product. 

[TBS]

30 minutes ago, LICC said:

And you keep overestimating them. They are jocks, not lawyers. One side is telling them one thing and the other side is telling them something else. They chose to believe the side that would give them the most money. Yes, they were stupid to believe Norman, but I absolutely believe that some of these guys accepted Norman's take and thought they would never be stopped from playing in both LIV and PGA Tour events. Gooch said just that after he was suspended- he planned to play the first LIV event and then next play the PGA Tour event.

It is really funny (and kind of sad) to think about Swafford and Gooch waiting in a parking lot outside of TPC Southwind and then have to get a flight out of town.

Money can easily cloud judgement, especially when you are as young as they are.

[RickyBobby_PR]

43 minutes ago, LICC said:

And you keep overestimating them. They are jocks, not lawyers. One side is telling them one thing and the other side is telling them something else. They chose to believe the side that would give them the most money. Yes, they were stupid to believe Norman, but I absolutely believe that some of these guys accepted Norman's take and thought they would never be stopped from playing in both LIV and PGA Tour events. Gooch said just that after he was suspended- he planned to play the first LIV event and then next play the PGA Tour event.

Their grown adults, most with some level of advanced education. They aren’t dummies. The writing was on the wall right in front of them the whole time, especially those who jumped later than others. 
 

Im not over estimating them. I’m saying being ignorant isn’t an excuse. 

[LICC]

26 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Their grown adults, most with some level of advanced education. They aren’t dummies. The writing was on the wall right in front of them the whole time, especially those who jumped later than others. 
 

Im not over estimating them. I’m saying being ignorant isn’t an excuse. 

It is not an excuse but it is reality. And now that the reality of suspensions has been in place and upheld (until at least a full trial is concluded which will take years), it is likely that some players who may have considered joining LIV will stick with the PGA Tour.

[PeterHenric]

2 hours ago, Middler said:

If they join the PGA Tour in the manner you suggest, they would have to then give up LIV, the Asian Tour and most other tournaments (they might get three exemptions, but I doubt any would be for LIV events). There may well be changes as a result of competition from LIV, but that hasn't happened yet. Most people are barred from working full time for one company and another company (esp a competitor) as well, it's not that unusual - is that an antitrust case in your view?

 

I think he was saying that if a College guy joined LIV, decided it wasn’t for him for any reason, then left LIV and wanted to join PGA. If PGA wouldn’t allow him in because he had formerly been associated with LIV even though he never had any contracts with PGA prohibiting him from doing so, that would definitely raise problems. To restrict the hiring of someone because they used to work for a competitor is something completely different.

In theory, if most PGA pros are required to play roughly 15 events a year and LIV has a 13-15 event schedule, it is possible that the pro could do both. That would definitely be a grind and wouldn’t be advisable but it is possible. You probably couldn’t work full time for 2 different competing companies because schedules would overlap but who determines what is “full time” on the PGA? A guy like Harry Higgs or S. Im seem like they play that many events a year.

 

[GolfSpy_APH]

2 hours ago, LICC said:

And you keep overestimating them. They are jocks, not lawyers. One side is telling them one thing and the other side is telling them something else. They chose to believe the side that would give them the most money. Yes, they were stupid to believe Norman, but I absolutely believe that some of these guys accepted Norman's take and thought they would never be stopped from playing in both LIV and PGA Tour events. Gooch said just that after he was suspended- he planned to play the first LIV event and then next play the PGA Tour event.

I just want to counter this by saying if both sides are saying two things wouldn't you think any person in their half right mind might follow up to make sure that everything is okay. Gooch is your example so I'll use him. He said he only intended to play one event. Players were explicitly told if you go you are done. Period. End of story. If you're Gooch do you not think okay let me send Jay a text and ask him if this is really the case. Even if Norman is saying it can't be, he isn't the law for the PGA and Jay is the one laying it all out. 

What he did/thought was just foolish. It was told to all of them time and time again what was going to happen and he went anyway. I feel no sympathy for him or anyone else that chose to join. They knew 100% what was going to happen and those excuses just simply don't hold any water to me. 

If you are risking such a big portion of your life or part of your game that you want to be a part of then you do the homework and you double and triple check with everyone, not take the word of someone who is known to be wanting to take down the tour. Simple as that. 

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, PeterHenric said:

In theory, if most PGA pros are required to play roughly 15 events a year and LIV has a 13-15 event schedule, it is possible that the pro could do both.

The issue is that the LIV Tour events are required (at least so far) for the LIV players, which means that every single LIV player would miss the PGA Tour event on the same week.  Those 14 weeks every year, the PGA Tour event becomes minor league if enough players go to LIV.  Does the John Deer survive if even fewer top-tier players are available?  Some of the others?  And would LIV stop at 14?  Its just not a sustainable model, in my mind.

[PeterHenric]

4 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The issue is that the LIV Tour events are required (at least so far) for the LIV players, which means that every single LIV player would miss the PGA Tour event on the same week.  Those 14 weeks every year, the PGA Tour event becomes minor league if enough players go to LIV.  Does the John Deer survive if even fewer top-tier players are available?  Some of the others?  And would LIV stop at 14?  Its just not a sustainable model, in my mind.

That's actually one of the first points that I have seen that I understand and agree with that doesn't have some sort of political motivation. Everyone complained about the source of the money, PGA Tour Legacy, 54 hole events, not cut, etc and I personally never agreed or cared about any of those reasons. You have helped me realize a rational, unbiased reason why LIV and PGA can't peacefully coexist with players being on both tours. I had thought about that stuff before but never really had it click into place.

[RickyBobby_PR]

39 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I just want to counter this by saying if both sides are saying two things wouldn't you think any person in their half right mind might follow up to make sure that everything is okay. Gooch is your example so I'll use him. He said he only intended to play one event. Players were explicitly told if you go you are done. Period. End of story. If you're Gooch do you not think okay let me send Jay a text and ask him if this is really the case. Even if Norman is saying it can't be, he isn't the law for the PGA and Jay is the one laying it all out. 

What he did/thought was just foolish. It was told to all of them time and time again what was going to happen and he went anyway. I feel no sympathy for him or anyone else that chose to join. They knew 100% what was going to happen and those excuses just simply don't hold any water to me. 

If you are risking such a big portion of your life or part of your game that you want to be a part of then you do the homework and you double and triple check with everyone, not take the word of someone who is known to be wanting to take down the tour. Simple as that. 

And Gooch wasn’t an early jumper so he knew the consequences.

And he was all peachy king with it til names started getting removed from FedEx cup playoffs then reality set in

[LICC]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I just want to counter this by saying if both sides are saying two things wouldn't you think any person in their half right mind might follow up to make sure that everything is okay. Gooch is your example so I'll use him. He said he only intended to play one event. Players were explicitly told if you go you are done. Period. End of story. If you're Gooch do you not think okay let me send Jay a text and ask him if this is really the case. Even if Norman is saying it can't be, he isn't the law for the PGA and Jay is the one laying it all out. 

What he did/thought was just foolish. It was told to all of them time and time again what was going to happen and he went anyway. I feel no sympathy for him or anyone else that chose to join. They knew 100% what was going to happen and those excuses just simply don't hold any water to me. 

If you are risking such a big portion of your life or part of your game that you want to be a part of then you do the homework and you double and triple check with everyone, not take the word of someone who is known to be wanting to take down the tour. Simple as that. 

I agree with all of this. I also believe some of these players (not all) truly believed it would never come to them being unable to play PGA Tour events. Yes, they were stupid, but that is the reality. And that reality is now out there for all to see, reinforced by the judge's decision this week, and may change the dynamic somewhat with respect to LIV defections.

[LICC]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

And Gooch wasn’t an early jumper so he knew the consequences.

No, he didn't know the consequences. He should have known, but in his mind he thought he would play both LIV and the PGA Tour.

“Historically the Tour has not done that (suspend players)," Gooch explained. "So based on the history, that was my expectations.”

[chisag]

33 minutes ago, LICC said:

I agree with all of this. I also believe some of these players (not all) truly believed it would never come to them being unable to play PGA Tour events. Yes, they were stupid, but that is the reality. And that reality is now out there for all to see, reinforced by the judge's decision this week, and may change the dynamic somewhat with respect to LIV defections.

 

... They also knew there would be repercussions for signing with the Saudi's but didn't seem to care. Yet Graham McDowel was surprised by reactions. Really? Then of course they also knew the PGA Tour is run by the players and they would not be welcomed with open arms even if they were allowed to come back. Of course Norman was filling their heads with: unicorns and mermaids are REAL! Either these guys aren't that bright, are living in a bubble or of course just don't care and figured the obscene amount of money was worth it. I get the latter but am at least a little surprised by the former. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

18 minutes ago, LICC said:

No, he didn't know the consequences. He should have known, but in his mind he thought he would play both LIV and the PGA Tour.

“Historically the Tour has not done that (suspend players)," Gooch explained. "So based on the history, that was my expectations.”

That’s an excuse. Players were already suspended when he jumped ship. He has no excuse. He’s playing victim.

[ryan.mzzz]

“If you have names I can reach out to them,” he texted. “In regards to the Tour if they were going to ban players they would have already. They know they cannot hence no action outside of verbal threats. If you can get them or any player threatened to get it [in writing] fantastic. Thanks.” 

 

“They cannot not(sic) ban you for one day let alone life.”

 

These texts from Greg Norman to Sergio came out in court. IMO, Norman was either lying through his teeth in his sales pitch to players, or he was simply incorrect in his assessment of the situation. 

 

Either way, the bans will stand till the trial, which is one to three years from now. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 minute ago, ryan.mzzz said:

These texts from Greg Norman to Sergio came out in court. IMO, Norman was either lying through his teeth in his sales pitch to players, or he was simply incorrect in his assessment of the situation. 

I’ll take a combo for $200 Alex 

[Bang60]

49 minutes ago, ryan.mzzz said:

“If you have names I can reach out to them,” he texted. “In regards to the Tour if they were going to ban players they would have already. They know they cannot hence no action outside of verbal threats. If you can get them or any player threatened to get it [in writing] fantastic. Thanks.” 

 

“They cannot not(sic) ban you for one day let alone life.”

 

These texts from Greg Norman to Sergio came out in court. IMO, Norman was either lying through his teeth in his sales pitch to players, or he was simply incorrect in his assessment of the situation. 

 

Either way, the bans will stand till the trial, which is one to three years from now. 

I'd say GN was thinking he has years to play with until a final decision is made, he thinks he will WIN on a Technicality at the very least. Tough to say with 100% certainty who will WIN...

[LICC]

1 minute ago, Bang60 said:

I'd say GN was thinking he has years to play with until a final decision is made, he thinks he will WIN on a Technicality at the very least. Tough to say with 100% certainty who will WIN...

I'm not sure Norman cares if LIV succeeds long-term. He wants to damage the PGA Tour, and he will make a massive amount of money in the short-term regardless.

[TBS]

5 minutes ago, LICC said:

I'm not sure Norman cares if LIV succeeds long-term. He wants to damage the PGA Tour, and he will make a massive amount of money in the short-term regardless.

I know Norman is the face and commissioner but he has to have a board or other senior people involved, right? Do we know who else is at the top of LIV?

Would be really funny to see a LIV kick Greg to the curb as this continues through the courts. If that happens, a settlement between PGA Tour and LIV would be much more likely.

[shootmyage]

Scottie Scheffler a real pga pro , lots of class 

now there are 3 pga players i don't like 

one cheats in sand traps

one tries to cheat his caddie

one has zero class

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, shootmyage said:

Scottie Scheffler a real pga pro , lots of class 

now there are 3 pga players i don't like 

one cheats in sand traps

one tries to cheat his caddie

one has zero class

I'd suggest you read the actual story,  he didn't walk on Smith's line as reported by the media to create the reaction that you are expressing.  They were high fiving shortly before this non incident.

[shootmyage]

44 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I'd suggest you read the actual story,  he didn't walk on Smith's line as reported by the media to create the reaction that you are expressing.  They were high fiving shortly before this non incident.

 the high 5 was after smith got a 2 on a par 4 . twitter took the video down , it will pop up sometime and you will see , 

[GolfSpy_BNG]

He walked between Cam and Cam’s mark. Not sure this is as big a deal as everyone seems to be making it. 

[chisag]

34 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

He walked between Cam and Cam’s mark. Not sure this is as big a deal as everyone seems to be making it. 

 

... Yea but drama = clickbait = more views = many more ignorant opinions = getting angrier = much ado about nothing.