Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News

[LICC]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Hoping Chamblee loses. He’s a babbling baffoon

Chamblee is smart, knowledgeable, and well-researched. He may go overboard to get attention, but he is not a baffoon.

[Berg Ryman]

So, some of you know what I do for a living, and because of that I must say that this is in no way legal advice or binding legal thought, or should be considered as such, but I've read the complaint in full and suggest you to do the same, as it is easily available.

What I personally think this boils down to is that this case is being used by LIV for what we call a 'fishing expedition' in the business. I believe this is an attempt by LIV to get access to the contract information between the two tours listed here, PGA and DP and their relationship to Golf Channel for use in their anti-trust suit as it relates to discovery demands.

It seems very significant the amount of money being requested and the fact that this is not just a suit against Brandel, but instead the majority of the allegations say that while he may have acted on his own impulses, that he did so as a mouthpiece for the network and the two tours that are listed above. This isn't about Patrick Reed having his feelings hurt, or anything like that, but the claims against Brandel do potentially have enough merit to hold up an initial attempt to dismiss them and that will allow them to get into discovery which is what LIV may want to have happen.

Again, that my look at this from 30K feet and knowing a bit of the history of Mr. Klayman. Just saying for posterity, not a good luck for Patrick Reed to be on a list of people Klayman filed defamation suits for as they include George Zimmerman, Joe Arpaio, and Roy Moore.

[BIG STU]

8 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

So, some of you know what I do for a living, and because of that I must say that this is in no way legal advice or binding legal thought, or should be considered as such, but I've read the complaint in full and suggest you to do the same, as it is easily available.

What I personally think this boils down to is that this case is being used by LIV for what we call a 'fishing expedition' in the business. I believe this is an attempt by LIV to get access to the contract information between the two tours listed here, PGA and DP and their relationship to Golf Channel for use in their anti-trust suit as it relates to discovery demands.

It seems very significant the amount of money being requested and the fact that this is not just a suit against Brandel, but instead the majority of the allegations say that while he may have acted on his own impulses, that he did so as a mouthpiece for the network and the two tours that are listed above. This isn't about Patrick Reed having his feelings hurt, or anything like that, but the claims against Brandel do potentially have enough merit to hold up an initial attempt to dismiss them and that will allow them to get into discovery which is what LIV may want to have happen.

Again, that my look at this from 30K feet and knowing a bit of the history of Mr. Klayman. Just saying for posterity, not a good luck for Patrick Reed to be on a list of people Klayman filed defemination suits for as they include George Zimmerman, Joe Arpaio, and Roy Moore.

And from what I read on my Golfweek feed Klayman lost every single one of those cases

[BIG STU]

2 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

Captain America's new nickname = Captain Crazy 

 

Poppa Tuney we have a looney ( original Hairspray movie)

[GolfSpy SAM]

4 hours ago, MattF said:

Read up on his lawyer...the guy loses more cases than he wins and should just stick to chasing ambulances...oh, and he sued his own mother.

To be fair, have you met his mother?  

[BIG STU]

3 hours ago, ryan.mzzz said:

that sounds pretty fun. It also sounds like something that wouldn’t happen if the tour was well attended. I’m not knocking them. Given the famous association with 9/11 by the funders of the tour, (the top two executives of Saudi Public Investment Fund apparently play all the pro ams and fist bump all the top guys on a regular basis, which i’m sure feels great for the players,) and given their apparent death match with the PGA tour, LIV should absolutely, from a managerial standpoint, be focused on generating a great experience for every customer through the door. The anecdote i’m responding to does seem to indicate they know this. 

 

edit:

* the fist bumping thing came from an interview allen shipnuck did with rich eisen. It’s available on youtube.

He and his wife have not been playing golf that long maybe 5 years tops. They never got to see a tournament at like Liberty National. This year the stars lined up so to speak for them to go up and enjoy the event. I was lucky in life in the past with my Old man being in the PGA and knowing people I have been to The Masters like 5 times, The GGO ( now Windam) and the old Kemper Open many times. They really had a great time. Of course I am blessed to be spoiled because IMHO nothing holds a candle to The Masters. And politics aside I will say it was a great experience for them

[MattF]

10 minutes ago, Samsonite said:

To be fair, have you met his mother?  

No. However, a lawyer that sues his own mother must be pretty special.

[Golfspy_CG2]

3 minutes ago, MattF said:

No. However, a lawyer that sues his own mother must be pretty special.

I think he meant Patrick Reed's mothe, in reference to Reed suing her, not the lawyer suing his own mtoher.  At leat that's the way I think it was meant.  Reeds lack of having anything to do with his family is pretty well documented. 

[MattF]

Just now, Golfspy_CG2 said:

I think he meant Patrick Reed's mothe, in reference to Reed suing her, not the lawyer suing his own mtoher.  At leat that's the way I think it was meant.  Reeds lack of having anything to do with his family is pretty well documented. 

The lawyer also sued his own mother for $50,000.

[funkyjudge]

41 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

So, some of you know what I do for a living, and because of that I must say that this is in no way legal advice or binding legal thought, or should be considered as such, but I've read the complaint in full and suggest you to do the same, as it is easily available.

What I personally think this boils down to is that this case is being used by LIV for what we call a 'fishing expedition' in the business. I believe this is an attempt by LIV to get access to the contract information between the two tours listed here, PGA and DP and their relationship to Golf Channel for use in their anti-trust suit as it relates to discovery demands.

It seems very significant the amount of money being requested and the fact that this is not just a suit against Brandel, but instead the majority of the allegations say that while he may have acted on his own impulses, that he did so as a mouthpiece for the network and the two tours that are listed above. This isn't about Patrick Reed having his feelings hurt, or anything like that, but the claims against Brandel do potentially have enough merit to hold up an initial attempt to dismiss them and that will allow them to get into discovery which is what LIV may want to have happen.

Again, that my look at this from 30K feet and knowing a bit of the history of Mr. Klayman. Just saying for posterity, not a good luck for Patrick Reed to be on a list of people Klayman filed defemination suits for as they include George Zimmerman, Joe Arpaio, and Roy Moore.

I am not a lawyer, but I did have to take several business law courses in grad school (U of PA, Wharton School), and I provided litigation support and claims management services for more than a decade.  I wholeheartedly agree that this appears to be a “fishing expedition” where discovery is used to unearth evidence to be used in larger, more wide-ranging planned or upcoming lawsuits.

As for Mr. Klayman, he would be about at the bottom of the list of attorneys that I would consider to have represent me in the filing of a defamation suit.

Edited August 17, 2022 by funkyjudge

[GolfSpy SAM]

41 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

...Just saying for posterity, not a good luck for Patrick Reed to be on a list of people Klayman filed defemination suits for as they include George Zimmerman, Joe Arpaio, and Roy Moore.

I know that's just a typo, but good god-D*MN that made me laugh

Appreciate your takeaway, though.

[GolfSpy SAM]

9 minutes ago, MattF said:

The lawyer also sued his own mother for $50,000.

They were made for each other. Yikes.  

[Bang60]

Watching Mrshortgame video about the 2 shot penalty on the 4th hole which he said the PGA needs to "apologize" to Cam for the way they went about imposing it the next day, and Scottie S walking on Cams line when all Pro's avoid doing that at all cost yeah number one thing they hate. Mrshortgame also said it's all because Cam is going to Liv, I'd be going if I was offered $100 million dollars because I'd say in 12months or so this will be a storm in a teacup....

[BIG STU]

3 hours ago, Bang60 said:

Watching Mrshortgame video about the 2 shot penalty on the 4th hole which he said the PGA needs to "apologize" to Cam for the way they went about imposing it the next day, and Scottie S walking on Cams line when all Pro's avoid doing that at all cost yeah number one thing they hate. Mrshortgame also said it's all because Cam is going to Liv, I'd be going if I was offered $100 million dollars because I'd say in 12months or so this will be a storm in a teacup....

It has been stated several times by Cam and Scotty that Scotty DID NOT walk in his line. It was blown out of proportion by the media. The media is fueling a lot of this whole contriversy.

Now on the Smith penality---- Rules are rules but I do not like the way The PGAT handled it. Personally I think they had people due to the current situation closely monitoring Cam to try to find something anything during his round. I can see from maybe his view the ball not touching the line. Trust me they are going to somehow make sure Cam is NOT going to win the Fed Ex Cup at any cost. That would be the biggest coup ever the current Fed Ex Champion and by then OWGR #1 defecting to LIV. It is going to happen I am sure but the PGAT is trying to lessen the embarassment. Cam basically shrugged it off as screw you I will play your headgames for now. IMHO and I may be wrong here but I do not see him teeing it up for East Lake either. I think he is smart enough to see the writing on the wall for him.

I may be in left field on all of this past the bleachers and into the parking lot but this is the way I see it.

My .02 FWIW

[Thin2win]

6 Or so months into this and I think I want both parties to lose.  The pga tour is fighting to keep its players,  but not its viewers. LIV is still funded by Voldemort.

LIV players saying they joined for every reason other then money annoys me about as much as PGA players saying that playing anything less then 72 holes with a cut isn't actual golf. Guess I've never played golf.

LIV broadcasters talking about the electric atmosphere and the PGA tour ones taking random shots and barbs at those that went to LIV and the format are equally annoying.

LIV doesn't have a major.... neither does the PGA Tour.

That the USGA is my current favorite golf organization is astonishing to me. The US Women's Amateur last week,  and the men's Amateur this week have been great viewing.

[Bang60]

2 hours ago, Thin2win said:

The US Women's Amateur last week,  and the men's Amateur this week have been great viewing.

Oh yeah Baba from Japan winning so comprehensively was good to watch all her matches, wow lookout ladies on the LPGA...

[fozcycle]

If you left your job for a higher paying job, then decided you still wanted to work for your old job, why should your old boss rehire you?

[Shapotomous]

It is interesting to me that the meeting at the BMW on how to address the LIV situation and improve the tour moving forward was players only and did not include the PGA tour execs including JM.  If it is a close relationship between tour players and execs i would have thought they would all be in the same room at the same time.  Maybe the PGA Tour isn't run / influenced by the players as much as we would think given how many are on the board.  

[Rickp]

21 hours ago, ryan.mzzz said:

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/34410268/liv-golf-reed-files-lawsuit-alleges-defamation

i’ve always liked patrick reed. I don’t know exactly what his family situation is, but my situation is similar to his, and I can’t imagine that happening without being treated very badly by your biological family. 

That being said, although IANAL, I don’t see how this case has a chance of success. Maybe in where the libel laws are more strict, here? chamblee is paid to commentate. he commentated. On political shows in , people rip each other to shreds, and yet don’t pass the test reed is attempting to pass here.  IMO. No chance.

 

Reeds grandparents lived in our area.  Played golf with the grandfather maybe twice.  He was not forthcoming about Patrick when asked. They moved to a different community couple years ago. 

[Headhammer]

4 hours ago, Thin2win said:

6 Or so months into this and I think I want both parties to lose.  

That the USGA is my current favorite golf organization is astonishing to me. The US Women's Amateur last week,  and the men's Amateur this week have been great viewing.

YES!

[BIG STU]

2 hours ago, fozcycle said:

If you left your job for a higher paying job, then decided you still wanted to work for your old job, why should your old boss rehire you?

Especially when you said or done some things to embarass your old employer

[DaveP043]

7 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Personally I think they had people due to the current situation closely monitoring Cam to try to find something anything during his round. I can see from maybe his view the ball not touching the line.

I have no idea whether special attention is being paid to Cam, or whether a Rules Official was sitting in the bar after his shift was over, having dinner, and noticed something on the big-screen TV.  But it was Cam himself, when asked the next morning, who told the officials that the ball was touching the line, and that he simply didn't realize that meant it was in the Penalty Area, so not in the Relief Area.  

[TR1PTIK]

30 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I have no idea whether special attention is being paid to Cam, or whether a Rules Official was sitting in the bar after his shift was over, having dinner, and noticed something on the big-screen TV.  But it was Cam himself, when asked the next morning, who told the officials that the ball was touching the line, and that he simply didn't realize that meant it was in the Penalty Area, so not in the Relief Area.  

My understanding from the NLU guys is that a rules official was watching highlights or something that evening after the round concluded and noticed the infraction then called someone about it. Haven't followed the story closely enough to know how accurate that timeline is, but it's what I've heard. 

Having learned about the exception to rule 3.3b as you explained in another thread, I would still argue that this leaves a little room for improvement with the PGA Tour in terms of a policy. I'm not sure exactly what that might be, but something in an attempt to lessen the amount of time between an unknown penalty, discovery, and the imposing of that penalty. Perhaps they could assign someone to take a more active role in reviewing player drops and official rulings to determine their validity rather than relying on pure happenstance that someone notice something and calls it in.

I've read elsewhere that supposedly they do have an official reviewing video in a booth somewhere, but clearly that effort fell short in some way and they should address it.

It's not a particular issue to me personally, but I do think that would alleviate some of the knee-jerk reactions and skepticism.

[fixyurdivot]

3 hours ago, fozcycle said:

If you left your job for a higher paying job, then decided you still wanted to work for your old job, why should your old boss rehire you?

This one's easy.  I rehired two engineers that left for other opportunities and higher pay, and know of many others that did as well.  The reason being is that they were highly skilled and reliable.  Further, we had many contract engineers and technicians that moved back and forth between companies - in some cases a handful of times. If they were among the highly skilled talent available for key roles, the job hopping was rarely an issue.  One of my tenets was/is "theirs no substitute for knowing what you are doing", and if a particular resource can deliver the goods, grab em.

If Jay dosen't want to rehire players who move to LIV, subsequently decide they really don't care for it, and want to come back, that's his choice. I personally think it's a short-sided decision and the wrong one.  IMO he needs to separate his personal vendetta with Norman and the Saudi association, take the high road, and look like a champion welcoming back any players who might want too.  Maybe with some modest requirements but certainly nothing like has been suggested by some on here .

7 hours ago, Thin2win said:

6 Or so months into this and I think I want both parties to lose.  The pga tour is fighting to keep its players,  but not its viewers. LIV is still funded by Voldemort.

LIV players saying they joined for every reason other then money annoys me about as much as PGA players saying that playing anything less then 72 holes with a cut isn't actual golf. Guess I've never played golf.

LIV broadcasters talking about the electric atmosphere and the PGA tour ones taking random shots and barbs at those that went to LIV and the format are equally annoying.

LIV doesn't have a major.... neither does the PGA Tour.

That the USGA is my current favorite golf organization is astonishing to me. The US Women's Amateur last week,  and the men's Amateur this week have been great viewing.

word! 

[shootmyage]

a few thing i have said before 

the pga tour should give every player that plays on thursday $5,000 , if they make the cut that's gravy .

every pga tour player should thank the liv tour because all the good things the pga tour is starting to do now would not have happened w/o liv ..

please read what mickelson really said ( not what the pga bobble heads say ) about the pga tour as he was not really way off on his thinking , he did exaggerate a little bit , we all know the media $$ , but how do you put a value on the videos in the pga archives ..

if the big shots at LIV had any brains they would give $5 million to the local charities every where they play .

 ???? new liv signers rumors  - matsuyama--c. smith--scott--leishman , some are not rumors .

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by shootmyage

[DaveP043]

14 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

If Jay dosen't want to rehire players who move to LIV, subsequently decide they really don't care for it, and want to come back, that's his choice. I personally think it's a short-sided decision and the wrong one.  IMO he needs to separate his personal vendetta with Norman and the Saudi association, take the high road, and look like a champion welcoming back any players who might want too.  Maybe with some modest requirements but certainly nothing like has been suggested by some on here .

To me, there are at least two factors in play, if and when a player wants to leave LIV and return to the PGA Tour.  First is the anti-trust aspect.  So far, the Tour hasn't tried to stop players from playing golf, they've primarily enforced the terms of their contract with the players.  A "lifetime ban", to me, would really mean trying to stop a player from making money playing golf.  Some time of suspension, some requirement to re-qualify, treat returning players as new applicants.

On the other hand, the Tour really IS the players, and current players may not want to welcome back someone who has bolted the Tour to make tens of millions of guaranteed dollars while the loyal Tour members have been toiling for (comparatively) peanuts.  They might legitimately favor more lengthy suspensions or stiffer requirements to re-qualify.  

[Undershooter]

On 8/16/2022 at 3:26 PM, fixyurdivot said:

They'll come to be known as "the minors" .

I found this to be an interesting conversation.  Having Tiger showing up at the BMW for a player rally (so to speak) sure sounds to me like the tour is worried about other names considering the move to LIV.

 

I think Stephen A is basically making the same point as every FB rando on DWMP. He's spouting whataboutism, bringing up the US government and other corporations that happen to do business with the Saudis. It's alright to talk about each situation on it's own merits, but I get why people don't want to if they are on a certain side of this conversation. I'd hope that even the staunchest of liv fans can acknowledge that being a shareholder of a company is quite different from being the sole backer of a startup sports league, who's main goal seems to be PR.

IMO Stephan A is talking out of both sides of his mouth when he brings up the fact that the US is a capitalistic society, yet he has a problem with Tiger backing his own tour. Don't you think it's in Tiger's best interest to back whichever tour he profits from? That in itself is capitalism at work and S.A.S. is a hypocrite if he actually has an issue with that, but not  LIV players bailing on the PGAT to take the money, and "do what's best for them." As he says, "is this not America?" I believe it is and Tiger's free to do whatever he likes concerning the PGA tour and it's players. Assuming they are willing to listen to him, which I'd guess most are.

Every player that is committed to either tour has it in their own financial interest for their tour to succeed. It would also help them succeed if they kept or poached( in liv's case) the most talented/famous players because those are the people that draw attention/ put butts in the seats. For example, the PGAT has a TV contract to uphold. They don't have the unlimited pockets of the saudis, so they have to get their money from sponsors and Television rights. Losing top talent could actually void their contract if they lose enough of them.

[LICC]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

This one's easy.  I rehired two engineers that left for other opportunities and higher pay, and know of many others that did as well.  The reason being is that they were highly skilled and reliable.  Further, we had many contract engineers and technicians that moved back and forth between companies - in some cases a handful of times. If they were among the highly skilled talent available for key roles, the job hopping was rarely an issue.  One of my tenets was/is "theirs no substitute for knowing what you are doing", and if a particular resource can deliver the goods, grab em.

If Jay dosen't want to rehire players who move to LIV, subsequently decide they really don't care for it, and want to come back, that's his choice. I personally think it's a short-sided decision and the wrong one.  IMO he needs to separate his personal vendetta with Norman and the Saudi association, take the high road, and look like a champion welcoming back any players who might want too.  Maybe with some modest requirements but certainly nothing like has been suggested by some on here .

word! 

I think if LIV players want to leave LIV and come back, the Tour should selectively take back the ones who would be good to take back, after some suspension time, and definitely not the ones suing. No one should be able to play LIV and also play the PGA Tour in between.

[LICC]

5 minutes ago, Undershooter said:

I think Stephen A is basically making the same point as every FB rando on DWMP. He's spouting whataboutism, bringing up the US government and other corporations that happen to do business with the Saudis. It's alright to talk about each situation on it's own merits, but I get why people don't want to if they are on a certain side of this conversation. I'd hope that even the staunchest of liv fans can acknowledge that being a shareholder of a company is quite different from being the sole backer of a startup sports league, who's main goal seems to be PR.

IMO Stephan A is talking out of both sides of his mouth when he brings up the fact that the US is a capitalistic society, yet he has a problem with Tiger backing his own tour. Don't you think it's in Tiger's best interest to back whichever tour he profits from? That in itself is capitalism at work and S.A.S. is a hypocrite if he actually has an issue with that, but not  LIV players bailing on the PGAT to take the money, and "do what's best for them." As he says, "is this not America?" I believe it is and Tiger's free to do whatever he likes concerning the PGA tour and it's players. Assuming they are willing to listen to him, which I'd guess most are.

Every player that is committed to either tour has it in their own financial interest for their tour to succeed. It would also help them succeed if they kept or poached( in liv's case) the most talented/famous players because those are the people that draw attention/ put butts in the seats. For example, the PGAT has a TV contract to uphold. They don't have the unlimited pockets of the saudis, so they have to get their money from sponsors and Television rights. Losing top talent could actually void their contract if they lose enough of them.

Stephen A is an idiot. He just ranted about the Yankees and said Hal and Hank Steinbrenner aren't tolerating their bad play. Hank Steinbrenner has been dead for three years.

[GolfSpy_APH]

36 minutes ago, shootmyage said:

a few thing i have said before 

the pga tour should give every player that plays on thursday $5,000 , if they make the cut that's gravy .

every pga tour player should thank the liv tour because all the good things the pga tour is starting to do now would not have happened w/o liv ..

please read what mickelson really said ( not what the pga bobble heads say ) about the pga tour as he was not really way off on his thinking , he did exaggerate a little bit , we all know the media $$ , but how do you put a value on the videos in the pga archives ..

if the big shots at LIV had any brains they would give $5 million to the local charities every where they play .

 ???? new liv signers rumors  - matsuyama--c. smith--scott--leishman , some are not rumors .

 

You've said these before and we have responded with answers that cover this. 

PGA tour has Play 15 get 50k. So why pay out an additional 5? 

PGA Tour had most all of these new events and such already lined up and discussed for the last couple years however were waiting for the new TV deal. Covid didn't help either. Yes things were moved up a bit, but all of this was still going to happen with our without LIV. 

Mickelson may have said some truth in his many tiraids, but also had so much wrong and was telling of numbers which were way overblown. All of this can be found out as well as they are a non for profit and much of their books are open for most to see and dive into. The fact the players make up numbers or don't care to get involved enough to understand the ins and the outs isn't the tours fault. 

Sure LIV guys can do that, they can probably give 50 million since they have essentially a bottomless pit of money.