Any tips for finding the right coach?

[PrayingForPar]

I am currently looking around for some lessons. There are quite a few here in SoCal, ranging from club pro's to GolfTech to GolfGalaxy. Would love some insight on the following points from those of you who have taken lessons or are instructors.

1. Is on course or sim/monitor better?
2. What about online lessons? Same Value?
3. How long of a lesson is necessary? Packages from some of these instructors range from 30 min to 90 minutes. Not sure if more is better?
4. How often should I be planning on seeing an instructor?
5. Can 1 coach tackle every part of my game or should I be looking at instructors for specific areas such as short game & driving?

Also, If you are near the Inland Empire and have some specific suggestions on coaches please, let me know!

[cnosil]

My opinions on your questions.

1. Is on course or sim/monitor better?   depends on what you are trying to accomplish and how well you swing indoors.  I have done both and found them to be equal.  Some really want to see ball flight.  Instructors leveraging data from launch monitors and video is good;  they shouldn't just have you chasing specific numbers.
2. What about online lessons? Same Value?  My definition of online is that you are working 1:1 with a coach and have interactions.   I have done online and they can work.   The difficulty is you have to wait  for a response and sometimes it is difficult to ensure you are doing what the instructor is asking or there are terminology gaps.     Is specified the definition of online lessons since some interpret it as watching a series of pre recorded videos from an instructor.  Those can work also;  I have gained a great deal of short game knowledge and ability watching youtube videos from Short Game Chef, James Ridyard, and Dan Grieve.  
3. How long of a lesson is necessary? Packages from some of these instructors range from 30 min to 90 minutes. Not sure if more is better?   Depends on what is being worked on.  I have had lessons were we made a change in 10 minutes and worked on that for a little bit and others that have lasted 2 hours.   I'd say 30-45 minutes is  probably a good base.  
4. How often should I be planning on seeing an instructor?  How much are you going to practice?   You want to have time to work on the changes before you do another lesson.  If could be a week or it could be a month or more. 
5. Can 1 coach tackle every part of my game or should I be looking at instructors for specific areas such as short game & driving?   Sure.  Some can do it all and some specialize.  

 

Best bet is to chat with the potential instructor;  it is like a job interview.  Try to see if their approach aligns with your; you could maybe even do a quick assessment to see what they want you to do.   Also know what you want;  are you looking for a tune up or a complete overhaul.  

Edited Saturday at 01:41 AM by cnosil

[cksurfdude]

Having taken lessons at a GolfTec, plus lessons from several different PGA instructors, the first thing reiterate what @cnosil said about definitely exactly what you're looking to accomplish. 

At GolfTec you may or may not get a well experienced "coach", as they call them, but either way they will attempt to rebuild your swing to fit into their swing model. Depends what you're looking for and what you need.

It did help me but then I got to the point where I felt I would benefit from a more individual approach.

Indoors is convenient for scheduling purposes, although you may not see a lot of rainy weather where you are, and seeing swing video and LM numbers during the lesson may be helpful to you.

Length of lesson? I'd suggest first lesson longer to get a complete eval and time to ask questions. Take notes and work on the drills given - and wait for the next lesson until you've really had time to with on them and feel like you're starting to "get it".

Outdoor lessons are great but should not focus on swing mechanics but instead various aspects of playing the game of golf - eg short game situations around the green.

Hope this helps a bit... Good luck!!

[Louis_Posture]

Jeff Hart is a sensational player, www.jeffhartgolf.com I recommend Jeff Hart because he played years on the PG Tour as well as several other Tours.

Too many instructors at golf courses, driving ranges, on YouTube and various internet forums are out there getting away with faking it because their students don't know any better. So, hire the instructor with the best playing credentials you can find. Beware, some people will say "a great player doesn't mean he is a good teacher", which may be true, but at least a former  PGA Tour player truly knows the game and will not give the harmful nonsense information that the pretenders are selling.

[cnosil]

8 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

Jeff Hart is a sensational player, www.jeffhartgolf.com I recommend Jeff Hart because he played years on the PG Tour as well as several other Tours.

Too many instructors at golf courses, driving ranges, on YouTube and various internet forums are out there getting away with faking it because their students don't know any better. So, hire the instructor with the best playing credentials you can find. Beware, some people will say "a great player doesn't mean he is a good teacher", which may be true, but at least a former  PGA Tour player truly knows the game and will not give the harmful nonsense information that the pretenders are selling.

What makes you think that a PGA player won't give harmful nonsense information?  I'll just reference Stan Utley and his teach of putting.   He did not understand how he putted and tried to teach his method; then someone told him how he actually putted so he changed what he taught.    We can also discuss PGA tour players that are announcers and provide differing information on how to play the game.  

[Old New Golfer]

If he’s still teaching. 
Go set up lessons with Tom Sargent at Yorba Linda CC. Just listen and do what he says. 
Lessons 40 minutes long concentrated. Other 20 minutes is wasted time. 
30 years ago it calculated to $100 an hour. Worth every penny. 
You must wear dress pants. No jeans allowed.

You will thank me. 

Edited Sunday at 11:28 PM by Old New Golfer

[Louis_Posture]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

What makes you think that a PGA player won't give harmful nonsense information?  I'll just reference Stan Utley and his teach of putting.   He did not understand how he putted and tried to teach his method; then someone told him how he actually putted so he changed what he taught.    We can also discuss PGA tour players that are announcers and provide differing information on how to play the game.  

If one has earned a PGA Tour card that mean he can consistently shoot par or better on difficult golf courses set up for Tour events. A player so skilled knows what matters for consistently good shot making and scoring. What he teaches will not harm a player, and if the player is smart enough to practice what he's taught his game will improve.
Contrast that with the typical teacher at driving ranges, golf courses, YouTube videos, internet discussion forums etc... who may have never achieved a truly high skill level of playing, but they like the game and know they are better  than the average hacker shooting 90's and 100's, so they figure that's good enough to give themselves an Instructor title and charge money for lessons. Even the PGA of America, to receive certified Instructor status,  requires only some pro-shop work time and a playability test (PAT) , which to pass is usually just breaking 80 on an average golf course. The students shoot 85 or worse so they don't know any better and will buy whatever the instructor is selling.

If the OP is looking for instruction I suggest he try Jeff Hart or other former PGA Tour player based in Southern Cal, near him. Or,  buy a copy of Golf My Way by Jack Nicklaus or How I play Golf by Tiger Woods.  Learning proper golf swing technique is not complicated, it's just some very basic fundamentals that a student should learn and commit to practicing. Competent instructors will keep the teaching very basic and simple. The charlatan instructors make it complicated and convince the naive, vulnerable student that golf is complicated.

[WaffleHouseTour]

Communication is key.  Can/Do you and you and your prospective coach communicate in a way that 1) you understand, 2) is relatable, 3) and sticks with you. 
 

some coaches are all about the numbers. Some all about the feel.  I don’t think either is right or wrong, but which are you?

some of it is also about what are your goals?  What are you working on?  Fundamentals?  A particular problem?  Or is it strategy?

I work w a Skillest coach and have for the last couple years. We’ve made some break throughs.  And there have been a few stumbling blocks - like sh can’t always see my grip when I’m shooting down the line video and it wasn’t until it shot face in that she said, hey I noticed something….

Sometime you just need someone to talk with, particularly about what you were thinking about or what kind of shot you were trying to hit and why.  For that my Skillest coach has been great. We’ve done some zooms where all we do is talk - no hitting a ball.  
 

it’s also been handy as I send video or voice messages or notes at all hours.  Swing at night, send a video. Swing at dawn, send a video. It’s all on my time. Then what about 24 for a response but it alway comes. 
 

in that regard you don’t want someone that is too busy.  That’s also why I pay a monthly unlimited package rather than just a by  lesson rate. 

[cnosil]

10 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

If one has earned a PGA Tour card that mean he can consistently shoot par or better on difficult golf courses set up for Tour events. A player so skilled knows what matters for consistently good shot making and scoring. What he teaches will not harm a player, and if the player is smart enough to practice what he's taught his game will improve.

 

Again not necessarily true.  Also those PGA Tour card guys  have coaches that have not been on the PGA Tour.   

I'll agree that not all instructors are good for every player and some are not actually good instructors.   Also, having skills does not mean you know how to communicate those skills or know how to deal with players that have physical limitations.  While a PGA player could be a good instructor, there is not guarantee they would be a good instructor for the student. 

Edited Monday at 11:39 AM by cnosil

[Old New Golfer]

17 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

Jeff Hart is a sensational player, www.jeffhartgolf.com I recommend Jeff Hart because he played years on the PG Tour as well as several other Tours.

Too many instructors at golf courses, driving ranges, on YouTube and various internet forums are out there getting away with faking it because their students don't know any better. So, hire the instructor with the best playing credentials you can find. Beware, some people will say "a great player doesn't mean he is a good teacher", which may be true, but at least a former  PGA Tour player truly knows the game and will not give the harmful nonsense information that the pretenders are selling.

If Jeff is good at teaching. I wish him and his students the best. That is where you find out about the teacher. His students. Are they good? What does their swing look like? How do they hit the ball? If not…are they getting better? 
I remember at a range. They brought in this guy with a so called great reputation. Set up a school there. He was out of the south. Word got around before him. His thing was to teach you to sway. I decided no thank you. 

[PrayingForPar]

@WaffleHouseTour Skillest is very intriguing, especially for full swing coaching. There are so many coaches on there, how did you decide who to go with?

@Louis_Posture Your point of being a PGA player makes sense if I am wanting to get on tour and play professional golf. I am sure they understand what it means to be under pressure and the intricacies of PGA, but just because they can shoot 5 under doesn't mean they can teach me to play like that. If you look at the top 50 teachers in America, it's pretty clear how few of them actually played on tour and they seem to be able to charge hundreds of dollars an hour....

@Old New Golfer Thank you for the suggestion! I am going to look him up.

 

[Warrior42111]

Try to ask a few instructors on their teaching philosophy. Some teachers are very position focused to get the desired result, others are more on what get's you to the most consistent swing, even if it's not 'perfect'.

Personally I find the latter better, as someone with limited practice time trying to get a prefect swing seems a waste, vs a consistent swing

[Old New Golfer]

4 hours ago, PrayingForPar said:

@WaffleHouseTour Skillest is very intriguing, especially for full swing coaching. There are so many coaches on there, how did you decide who to go with?

@Louis_Posture Your point of being a PGA player makes sense if I am wanting to get on tour and play professional golf. I am sure they understand what it means to be under pressure and the intricacies of PGA, but just because they can shoot 5 under doesn't mean they can teach me to play like that. If you look at the top 50 teachers in America, it's pretty clear how few of them actually played on tour and they seem to be able to charge hundreds of dollars an hour....

@Old New Golfer Thank you for the suggestion! I am going to look him up.

 

I imagine Tom is retired now? Didn't see him in the 50 best or best in each state. Am sure he would have made it. He was the head  of the So.Cal. Golf Association also.

I would love to find out. I imagine you'll be checking out in the low desert, Palm Springs, LaQuinta, etc. Out there, they give lessons at night? Or better yet, at 4-5 am. ???? Yup.... I know the desert. I lived in High Desert long enough to claim the fame of Desert Rat.

Edited Monday at 08:38 PM by Old New Golfer

[Louis_Posture]

6 hours ago, PrayingForPar said:

 

@Louis_Posture Your point of being a PGA player makes sense if I am wanting to get on tour and play professional golf. I am sure they understand what it means to be under pressure and the intricacies of PGA, but just because they can shoot 5 under doesn't mean they can teach me to play like that. If you look at the top 50 teachers in America, it's pretty clear how few of them actually played on tour and they seem to be able to charge hundreds of dollars an hour....

 

 

Beware of teaching pros who spend time promoting themselves. They are usually skilled at building a business, giving their name exposure, marketing their name etc... and the naive hacker amateur golfer does not know any better so he buys what they're selling. 

If you want to hire a "Golf Digest Top 50 Teachers in America" you do that. But your OP was a solicitation for a good Southern California based instructor, and I gave you one. The polite reply would have been thank you.

[PrayingForPar]

1 hour ago, Louis_Posture said:

Beware of teaching pros who spend time promoting themselves. They are usually skilled at building a business, giving their name exposure, marketing their name etc... and the naive hacker amateur golfer does not know any better so he buys what they're selling. 

If you want to hire a "Golf Digest Top 50 Teachers in America" you do that. But your OP was a solicitation for a good Southern California based instructor, and I gave you one. The polite reply would have been thank you.

My apologies, Thank you for the recommendation. 

[Off Map Oscar]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C___ielP6eG/?igsh=MWtrM2tvZWt5bXRoeg==