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What are some of your unpopular opinions when it comes to golf?

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46 minutes ago, Reesedw said:

Ok, @GolfSpy MPR.. I respectfully think you are wrong. These are not friendly games on Sat afternoon between friends. These are competitions to see who is the best on that course at that given time played for large amounts of money.  Winning is Winning. What you are saying is the "participation medal" ideology where we do not keep score and everyone wins.. Which is wrong, we need to teach that you will be rewarded for your hard work and effort not just because you showed up.. 

Yes,Tony had a great Year But He did not WIN.. Bubba as a whole did not play as well, but he did win 3 times.. 

While winning is what many determine a persons success by from the media and the fans it’s not everything. The winning percentage on tour for the non greats is below 20% iirc Phil’s is about 15%.

their job is to play golf and earn money. They aren’t going to win every event and most guys aren’t going to win every year. It’s why points and money are given based on how one finishes. Do these guys want to win? Of course but that doesn’t mean a winless season is a bad one

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

While winning is what many determine a persons success by from the media and the fans it’s not everything. The winning percentage on tour for the non greats is below 20% iirc Phil’s is about 15%.

their job is to play golf and earn money. They aren’t going to win every event and most guys aren’t going to win every year. It’s why points and money are given based on how one finishes. Do these guys want to win? Of course but that doesn’t mean a winless season is a bad one

I agree 100%. Tiger, Jack and Arnie did not win every event. But that should be the goal, not to just be good enough to make money. 

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12 minutes ago, Reesedw said:

I agree 100%. Tiger, Jack and Arnie did not win every event. But that should be the goal, not to just be good enough to make money. 

For the large majority of golfers it’s not just about good enough to make money but to try and win. There are guys that play every week to earn money do they can keep pursuing their dream if bring a pro golfer. Will they win one event or more than one? Probably not, but they will grind it out every week to earn a check just like many of us grind out our work week to get paid. 

Guys like jack, Arnie and tiger are a different breed. As are Phil, Vijay and DJ.

The vast majority of good to almost great golfers are going to have less than 20 wins on the pga tour for their career which for many will probably be 20-25 years. Those guys go out every week they play chasing the wind and there may be some that come Friday think to themselves I don’t have it this week to win so let me play good enough to make the cut and finish as high as I can while others may think I’m out of it right now but I have a couple more days to give it a go. 

No ones saying they are out there for participation trophies.

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1 hour ago, Reesedw said:

Ok, @GolfSpy MPR.. I respectfully think you are wrong. These are not friendly games on Sat afternoon between friends. These are competitions to see who is the best on that course at that given time played for large amounts of money.  Winning is Winning. What you are saying is the "participation medal" ideology where we do not keep score and everyone wins.. Which is wrong, we need to teach that you will be rewarded for your hard work and effort not just because you showed up.. 

Yes,Tony had a great Year But He did not WIN.. Bubba as a whole did not play as well, but he did win 3 times.. 

OK, these are fighting words 🙂 (And just to clarify, I mean that smiley face very much. I love a good-natured back-and-forth, with all the respect that this board is known for. I want to say that upfront, because I'm going to try a vigorous defense of my unpopular opinion.)

I'm certainly not arguing for participation trophies. None of this is about not keeping score and everyone being a winner. And I'll go one beyond you. You say that you should "be rewarded for your hard work and effort not just because you showed up." I don't care about hard work and effort; I'm talking about results. Who is better? I'm making an argument based on merit and performance, not on participation or even hard work (lots of guys work hard and don't perform at the highest level).

And what I'm saying is that wins (especially in golf) are an overrated measure of performance.

I think the last two months of Rory are a great example of the point I'm trying to make. Rory has been dominating the Tour in strokes gained. He has, by every objective metric, been the very best player on the PGA Tour this year. But until The Players, all he had to show for it was a string of Top 10s.

So are we supposed to think that, before The Players, Adam Long and Keith Mitchell were having a better season than Rory because he hadn't gotten a win and they had?

Let me give (what I think) is an even clearer example, and I'd love to hear your evaluation of it. Let's imagine a world in which Tiger Woods doesn't exist. In that world, Phil Mickelson was the dominant golfer for the past two decades, racking up (say) a couple dozen more wins than he already has, and another 4 majors.

Is Phil in our imaginary non-TW-world a better golfer than the Phil who exists in our world? My argument in this thought experiment is that he is the exact same quality of golfer; however, due to the absence of TW, he is now able to rack up more wins. Therefore, wins in themselves cannot be the sole measure of the quality of the golfer, since wins are (in part) a product of circumstances and not of the quality of the golf being played.

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3 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

OK, these are fighting words 🙂 (And just to clarify, I mean that smiley face very much. I love a good-natured back-and-forth, with all the respect that this board is known for. I want to say that upfront, because I'm going to try a vigorous defense of my unpopular opinion.)

I'm certainly not arguing for participation trophies. None of this is about not keeping score and everyone being a winner. And I'll go one beyond you. You say that you should "be rewarded for your hard work and effort not just because you showed up." I don't care about hard work and effort; I'm talking about results. Who is better? I'm making an argument based on merit and performance, not on participation or even hard work (lots of guys work hard and don't perform at the highest level).

And what I'm saying is that wins (especially in golf) are an overrated measure of performance.

I think the last two months of Rory are a great example of the point I'm trying to make. Rory has been dominating the Tour in strokes gained. He has, by every objective metric, been the very best player on the PGA Tour this year. But until The Players, all he had to show for it was a string of Top 10s.

So are we supposed to think that, before The Players, Adam Long and Keith Mitchell were having a better season than Rory because he hadn't gotten a win and they had?

Let me give (what I think) is an even clearer example, and I'd love to hear your evaluation of it. Let's imagine a world in which Tiger Woods doesn't exist. In that world, Phil Mickelson was the dominant golfer for the past two decades, racking up (say) a couple dozen more wins than he already has, and another 4 majors.

Is Phil in our imaginary non-TW-world a better golfer than the Phil who exists in our world? My argument in this thought experiment is that he is the exact same quality of golfer; however, due to the absence of TW, he is now able to rack up more wins. Therefore, wins in themselves cannot be the sole measure of the quality of the golfer, since wins are (in part) a product of circumstances and not of the quality of the golf being played.

I agree 100%,Phil without Tiger is not better than Phil with Tiger. The Best bring out the best. But to catch fire at the right moment and Win is without a Doubt what every Golfer wants to do.. All of these players are the top 1% of all the golfers. So Wins against any field are incredible. So to discount wins because you didn't play great every week is crazy.

Tony had a amazing year statistically and did not win. Bubba Won but was not statistically better. I take the Wins ALL day Long... 

And this is WHY this is the Best Golf Forum in the world. And why your doing a great job.. But still mistaken.. LOL🤣

 

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While winning is what many determine a persons success by from the media and the fans it’s not everything. The winning percentage on tour for the non greats is below 20% iirc Phil’s is about 15%.
their job is to play golf and earn money. They aren’t going to win every event and most guys aren’t going to win every year. It’s why points and money are given based on how one finishes. Do these guys want to win? Of course but that doesn’t mean a winless season is a bad one


+1. You only have to look at Kuch who's made a ton of money and until recently hasn't won in a long time.


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People on carts that play golf "for the exercise"!
Imagine that if I get to the stage where I need a cart (Electric buggy, fine) every round, I'll take up lawn bowls.

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There is nothing wrong with golf carts. Unless you are drunk, jumping them over sand traps, running people over, or generally just being a jackass in one.

 

Also, I cannot stand club pro guy. Or any of the parody golf outlets for that matter.

 

Where you at? 🥊

 

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Seed over all the cart paths and any golfers that want to play have to walk, take a caddie, or bring a push cart.  Yeah, I know, I just created a riot over in "The Villages", but bring it on.  I know it's unpopular to suggest such a thing, but back in the day golf was supposed to be a sport where the walking component was a big part of the competition and game.
Pace of play is maxed out at 3 1/2 hours for any group on the course.  If it's good enough for St. Andrews, then it's good enough for wherever golf is played.  You punch a card at the turn, and if you are over time (1 hour and 45 minutes per nine for those of you keeping score), your group is asked to leave the course.  Well, asked is too polite.  You'd be shown the parking lot by our staff of marshalls who are all college students from the athletic department.
Maximum handicap of 18 is allowed on the course.  Yeah, sure, that seems extreme, but we have a nice big 'ol range over there for those of you who need to work on your game a bit to get down to the maximum number.  And while we're working with your game on the range we're discussing options #1 and #2 above.  Oh yeah, and if you want to play my course, you will HAVE to have an established handicap.  Don't worry, the course is open on Tuesdays and Wednesdays for you to play a round with the pro, to keep score and to have your scores posted for handicap.  We have at least 3 pros available at any time during these days to accommodate anyone interested in playing a round.  "Gee Swag, I just don't have the time to do this, yada, yada, yada."  Well, that's part of the problem honestly that I see with most public courses on the weekends.  Guys out there wasting everyone else's time because they haven't ever practiced their game, and just show up on Saturday or whenever and dust off the clubs from the last time they played and expect to actually keep a ball in play.  Then they ****** about how their game sucks while playing a 5 hour round and holding everyone up behind them.
My course design would incorporate the following holes and distances:
Par 3s of 100, 115, 130, 145, 160 and 185.
Par 4s of 315, 330, 345, 360, 375 and 390.
Par 5s of 450, 465, 480, 505, 520 and 550.
Yeah, that's right.  Six of each par, and half of those holes would be short enough for the average golfer, and even the senior shorter hitters to reach par 4s easily in two and par 5s easily in three.  Don't worry.  If you think that 100 yard par 3 is too easy, you haven't seen my design.  The green would be about the size of my small bedroom in the house (10' x 12') and if you miss anywhere but short, the bunker you are in you are hitting out sideways or backwards, as it will be a true hazard and a true penalty, much like the postage stamp green's bunker is at Royal Troon.  Yeah, Rory took 6 shots to get out of it.  How will you fare?  I'd have doglegs on all the shorter par 4s and double doglegs on all the par 5s.  You want to cut the corner?  Go ahead.  Lots of water on the par 5s right about where you hot shot studs with 300 yards of carry will end up wet.  I will neuter your distance at every turn, and force you to use 14 clubs from your bag for all 18 holes.  Phil Mickelson may not approve, but GOOD!
Tournaments every other weekend at my course.  These are for both the men's and women's members.  You'll never get good at golf if you don't compete against your peers.  Tournaments are always gross and incorporate flights by your pre-established and witnessed handicapped scores.  The cost of these tournaments would be the same as the greens fees currently are, which would be free to members, plus a $10 entry fee for the kitty.  The winner of each flight takes how the cash.  And if you win flight "B", you are in flight "A" next time around.  If you are last in flight "B", you are in flight "C" next time around.
Honestly, the above is not realistic in our day and age when most folks are splitting their time 15 different ways.  I'm genuinely looking for 200 people for my type of club, where the membership fees are reasonable ($150 a month or less).  You will get in shape at my club, and you will always have a game waiting for you.  I would establish an online members only website where members could post requests for tee times, and seek pairings with fellow members.  I would also have a complete online database with all members contact information, and including handicaps.  There are no outliers or strangers at my club.  We all love golf, and we all want to play as much as possible.  Enough of the old boys club.  Everyone can play with everyone else, and there are no cliques at my club.  Be engaging with your fellow members or play somewhere else.
In my imaginary Field of Dreams course, I'd probably flip it so that Tuesday and Thursdays are for speed rounds that are finished in 3:45 max with flags on the putting green that are non-removable. I think that would get the point across.

My unpopular opinion is that wives should be invited to play sometimes (if they can).

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I’ll play

- No Laying Up is played out.
- I don’t mind Brandel Chamblee that much.
- Amateurs pay far too much attention to what the pros play instead of playing what’s best for them.
- Hawaii golf is VASTLY overrated.
- FootJoy makes horrendous looking golf shoes.
- The whole ‘hot take’ culture has taken away from the sources that still attempt to put out thoughtful golf analysis.

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Have no idea whether this opinion is unpopular or not, but Paul Azinger is terrible in the booth so far. If Johnny Miller was overly critical, Azinger is way too much of a cheerleader and thinks every shot is great. They are PGA Tour pros Paul. They should be able to execute standard shots.

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That's a solid unpopular opinion. I'll raise it: we put too much emphasis on winning in general. Tony Finau had a better season than Bubba Watson last year, even though Bubba won three events and Finau never had a victory.
This has turned out to be an unpopular opinion! You're playing the game the right way.

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5 hours ago, mr.hicksta said:

No Laying Up is played out.

Gotta disagree with you there!  "Wild World of Golf" is better than anything Golf Channel has produced..........maybe ever.  If you haven't seen it, do yourself a favor!

Everything else in your list, I completely agree with.

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7 hours ago, mr.hicksta said:

- FootJoy makes horrendous looking golf shoes.

Amen!

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1 hour ago, sixcat said:

Gotta disagree with you there!  "Wild World of Golf" is better than anything Golf Channel has produced..........maybe ever.  If you haven't seen it, do yourself a favor!

Everything else in your list, I completely agree with.

This was the one of the most entertaining things I watched on youtube ever.

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Hank Haney is highly overrated!

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9 hours ago, SeeMore Putts said:

My unpopular opinion is that wives should be invited to play sometimes (if they can).
 

My wife invites me to play... well, she tells me when we are playing.  She makes the tee times.

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The handicap system should be abolished entirely - net score is a delusional notion.

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6 minutes ago, downlowkey said:

The handicap system should be abolished entirely - net score is a delusional notion.

Holy unpopular opinion! 

Do you have any thoughts behind it that you want to share, @downlowkey?

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