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I hear you talking. I'm also weak in the same respect. It really is more fun to buy new equipment than to use the same old even if that same old is plenty good.

 

Sad part of life, for me in any case, is that change rarely gives immediate results to my benefit. If I did a good one, I can fix one or two particular aspects, but the rest of the armory also suffers change and needs getting to know again. So the end effect, for me in any case, is to make range and fairway time more needed.

 

When you've made your change, don't be too quick to conclude it was either good or bad. Take the time to find out it's effect on all your shots and do it on a real range. Nets are handy at home but if I'm going to pay for range time, I want to see a field in front of me.

 

 

Shambles

 

 

First thing is first Mizuno is known as the 'the poor mans Miura irons', they have always been known for their feel and their performance in the irons. So to score a set of irons for $600 that are new is a good deal, espesually since I know that wdgolf from his posts is trying to become a better player and is trending down in handicap, these irons will last him a long time so that he can just focus on his game once the shaft, length, lie & loft are adjusted to fit his swing and body type. Not to mention that the MP-63 is my favorite non-blade players CB, it just reminds me of my old MP-60s i used to play.

 

To answer the question of shafts or head, it is going to be both. As others have said in here already OEMs don't have a supper tight tolerance on the irons that you get off the rack would be too expensive to check every single COR, MOI, loft, lie on every club they produce. The tour van gets this done for them but they are a super small percentage of what is produced and a lot of times they have models that are not available to the public for example, TM R11s V2 (425cc) or R11 DOT (420c). I guess what I am getting at is the heads you get on the driver, fairway metal, rescue clubs, irons, wedges will all have slightly different results from testing with the same company and same brand of head.

 

You would need access to like a tour van or a top fitter that can have endless amount of resources to mix and match heads to get a target, you will spend a lot of money in this case. So much you might as well go for the Miura clubs special order components is what they do. I have heard some interesting stories about grooves, loft, lie, length, COR & MOI reading from the same models of 6 iron just different heads that were tested. Typically the 6 or 7 iron is the biggest piece of s*** in the set because that is the club the company produces the most of for demo clubs. Anyways, you really can't control the heads so much but you can at least control the shaft that fits your game the best for your swing and body type in terms of length, lie angle, loft, type of shaft, bend profile, spin rates, you get the idea.

 

I know that when I was having my W/S lie and loft adjusted / checked when i got them the lie angles were all really close to specs on their website. All of the lofts were to spec except the 6iron it was 1* weak of spec, easy fix. That might not sound like something you care about but 1* of loft is about 3-5 yards of distance. In terms of trying to land it into a 5 or 10 foot circle with that club it might matter to some people.

 

Replying to both Shambles and Jmiller since both bring up two related good points.

 

This is exactly why I'm getting fitted. IMO my distances aren't huge by any means, but they're definitely in the good enough range, so I'm interested in accuracy and fixing this sort of gap as much as anything else. One of my real peeves with my current set is I hit my 52* GW 95 yards and my 47* PW 115 on full shots. If I really go after it with my GW I can hit 100 and if I choke down on my PW I can hit 110, but right now it's a distance I try avoid in general. I have had the loft/lie checked for my 5-PW set, but not my wedges yet, so that's one of the first things I'm going to ask about.

 

I am weak when it comes to a good deal, but in the end I'm glad I didn't go for the Mizunos, despite how pretty they are.

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First thing is first Mizuno is known as the 'the poor mans Miura irons'.

 

The only problem I have with this statement is that Mizuno is known. Miura, asside from this forum and club ho's like us, are not know to the vast majority of the golfing public. I know that I had heard of them but I had just heard the name. I had no idea if they were good or just a cheap knockoff of some of the bigger OEMs. The same could be said of KBS. Until recently, I would not have known them from Apollo. And to be honest, most of the golfing public have no idea what a difference a shaft makes.

 

I look every Wednesday at whoever I get grouped with in the Beer Can Open Scrambles and I rarely see anything but stock shafts. Two weeks ago, I played with this guy and on the third hole he asked what shaft was in my driver. I let him hit it, and he hit the ball much longer than I do. Last week, he said he found one and it was on the way. Last night, he said it was being put in his driver and he would have it for tonight. But he is the exception. He also has some Mizuno MP14 and I hit them last night.

 

I am looking at Mizuno's for the first time now. Also, I am going tomorrow, wife's birthday but she is allowing me to look only for a while at the golf store. to try out some KBS shafts.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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When you talk about Miura set as the pure standard of feel and forging at $2500 or more a set i would consider $1000 cheap.

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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I am not arguing the price difference between Mizuno and Miura. I will not even get in the debate that the Miura feel two and a half or more times better than the Mizuno so the price is justified. But I would be curious how many strokes one can knock off their score by spending the $1500 + on irons vs. lessons.

 

I was just making reference to the Mizuno being "known" as anything to do with Miura. Mizuno can honestly say that they are played by the number 1 player in the world. They also can post a substantial list of wins, not that that really makes any difference, but they can do it.

 

I just do not think the Miura are "known" period. I have never seen one in real life. Heck, out here in Marboro country, Mizuno irons are rare, I know of two sets. There are probably 6 or 7 that play Titleist (4 of them AP's), and 100 each of Callaway and Taylormade and 75 Pings then all the rest.

 

I have to copy your spelling of Miura which tells you how familiar I am with them. But then again, I keep wanting to call Mizuno Minuzo. :D

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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I am not arguing the price difference between Mizuno and Miura. I will not even get in the debate that the Miura feel two and a half or more times better than the Mizuno so the price is justified. But I would be curious how many strokes one can knock off their score by spending the $1500 + on irons vs. lessons.

 

I was just making reference to the Mizuno being "known" as anything to do with Miura. Mizuno can honestly say that they are played by the number 1 player in the world. They also can post a substantial list of wins, not that that really makes any difference, but they can do it.

 

I just do not think the Miura are "known" period. I have never seen one in real life. Heck, out here in Marboro country, Mizuno irons are rare, I know of two sets. There are probably 6 or 7 that play Titleist (4 of them AP's), and 100 each of Callaway and Taylormade and 75 Pings then all the rest.

 

I have to copy your spelling of Miura which tells you how familiar I am with them. But then again, I keep wanting to call Mizuno Minuzo. :D

 

I agree 110%, $1500+ clubs is nothing but status IMHO, but to customize them to a T on a normal set of MP-69s for example would run around $1500 - $2000 anyways just depending on what all you are doing to them :) off the self $800 - $900 new $1000 at most is a great deal, they could sell them for a lot more and people would buy them, look at the scratch golf people. Scratch Golf custom set $2500, off the rack $1200-$1300...

 

I know the Miura (http://miuragolf.com/) has done forgings for some top OEMs and found a document talking about it, so I have to ask myself how many top tour pros playing blades are actually playing that companies product or if it is just a Miura blade made to look like their products.

--> http://www.mblacy.com/press_releases/Miura_secret.doc

 

You are right outside of the hardcore golfers Miura is not really known at all, scratch golf is probably more known then Miura golf but same thing it is a pretty small company. For 'Big OEMs'I agree Mizuno leads the way in 99% of the time for feel and forging. I have only found one club line to match or come close W/S FG62s versus the MP-69s... W/S hit it out the park on their blade I can't lie about that.

 

In the end I feel that if you are looking or considering a set of clubs that are manufactured to the tightest and highest quality, you won't find them in a 'high volume golf shop' just sitting

 

EDIT: Tiger Woods played them under Titleist, is it really any stretch of the imagination that he still plays them under Nike?

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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Back to topic. My thoughts on the head vs the shaft is that of course they are glued together so they are equal important but the head contributes most to forgiveness, sound, feel at impact, looks at address, and in the bag. This last seems a trivial part of it, but the shot is half over once you have pulled the club. And if the looks of the club inspire confidence, even in the bag, then the rest is proper setup and tempo. Not that you will always hit a good shot with this formula, but you are much more likely to hit a good one in this case than when you are not confident, you are making the right swing, set up improperly and swat at the ball.

 

The shaft contibute feel during the swing and I guess some looks at address. I honestly like the looks of the stepless shaft better. But I do not notice this very often.

 

Now, I was thinking that for the most part, loft and length determine distance when combined with swing speed. However, angle of attack greatly affects the spin. Much has been said about spin and driver distance. I know personally, when I went to the Tour AD DI shaft, I gained 25 to 30 yards easily because I got the spin numbers down. But my distance with irons is really not that great. Today I put on my swing guage and went out and hit a few balls into the lake. It is 160 to the shore, and I was hitting a 5 iron about 175 - 180. My swing speed said it was 92. (Smooth tempo about 80%) Now this was no warm up and in house shoes, but the distance is about what I get from those irons. I think I should be getting more distance from the clubs.

 

i have tried the lighter shafts and I like a heavier feeling head, but to be honest I am a big guy and 20 grams of shaft makes very little difference to me. I trap the ball, and even when I hit a 3 iron into the green I get a one hop and stop. I do not hit full wedges but if I do they will back up 10 feet or more on the green. 3/4 wedges I am within a foot either way of the pitch mark. So what I am saying is that I am really spinning the ball.

 

My question is if I went with a heavier shaft and lower spinning shaft, would I see a significant increase in the iron distance. I do the online fitting, KBS three times this morning, and it keep putting me into the lighter shafts to increase my swing speed, but honestly, when I really speed up I do not see much increase but see significant.

 

Also I read that the Project X were better for diggers and the DG were better for sweepers.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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RR: If you're looking for an iron shaft to bring down spin, nothing (in my experience) compares to the KBS C-Taper. You will have a tough time finding it on fitting carts because it's relatively new, but it's worth checking out. FWIW, the TaylorMade cart at my shop has a couple C-Tapers. Even if you're not interested in the TMAG heads, you could get a feel for the shaft.

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For 'Big OEMs'I agree Mizuno leads the way in 99% of the time for feel and forging. I have only found one club line to match or come close W/S FG62s versus the MP-69s... W/S hit it out the park on their blade I can't lie about that.

 

That's the thing, when comparing comparably priced clubs, I do think Mizuno comes out on top (I haven't tried the W/S), but there was only a tiny difference in feel between my Dynacrafts and the Mizunos.

 

Also I read that the Project X were better for diggers and the DG were better for sweepers.

 

Back on topic...

 

Very interesting. I'm solidly in the sweep category. I hardly take any divot.

 

When I was at the launch monitor, I'm not sure spin was being calculated correctly, so it's hard for me to say much about the DGs the Mizunos had compared to my Apollos. I was at the range just now and I was back to hitting it high. The guy at GG did say KBS Tours and Project X will go lower than DGs though, which I thought strange because the True Temper website lists the DGs are low launch shafts.

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RR: If you're looking for an iron shaft to bring down spin, nothing (in my experience) compares to the KBS C-Taper. You will have a tough time finding it on fitting carts because it's relatively new, but it's worth checking out. FWIW, the TaylorMade cart at my shop has a couple C-Tapers. Even if you're not interested in the TMAG heads, you could get a feel for the shaft.

 

I was about to talk about shafts and feel compared to spin because I have tested and played a lot of different iron shafts, C-Taper is a beast.

 

TT DG x100 ~ Semi-harsh, i tended to have them balloon on me a little bit but if you want the most workability you also need the most spin on the ball so why it is a top choice of touring professionals, DG is probably the most workable shaft I have hit however you have to watch controlling the spin into the wind if a high spin player.

 

PX Chrome Satin Finish [Kim Braly (KBS) owned it back then] ~ harsh to semi-harsh, you can't find them anymore, rare shafts people still love them, they are a get shaft with medium trajectory and less spin the DG x1s

 

PX Polished Chrome Finish ~ harsh, these suckers feel like an iron poker in the load and release of the club. They are like the model in spin and trajectory, good for high spin high launch players bring down both aspects.

 

KBS Tour ~ Smooth feeling, though high launch and higher spin shaft is designed to help the ball in the air more then bring it down. The swing weight of these tends to act like they are counter balanced when really they are not a 'counter balanced' shaft. Recommended in wedges and long irons honestly, I have C-Taper in my 3 and 4 iron they come out like a tiger 2 iron stinger, low hard bullets.

 

KBS C-Taper ~ smooth feeling and wow these things are low trajectory, low spin and just wow nothing on the market like it. Probably the smoothest / softer feeling X iron shaft I have played. I will give a warning you need to be a high spin player and a high ball hitter to even really consider these, you need to make a solid good move down and through the ball to get enough spin to hold greens and enough height on them for carry, they come out penetrating bullets if you have trouble with hitting a high launch with a lot of spin try the C-Tapers.

 

KBS Tour VS (Tour Only) ~ heard it is something of a tip more like the C-Taper sort of between the KBS Tour and KBS C-Taper no idea if they plan to go to market with them or when.

 

Nippon N.S. Pro Modus 3 ~ I hear it plays a lot like a DG x100 but a smoother feel, I have not personally hit one to know so nothing other then that can I give you.

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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RR: If you're looking for an iron shaft to bring down spin, nothing (in my experience) compares to the KBS C-Taper. You will have a tough time finding it on fitting carts because it's relatively new, but it's worth checking out. FWIW, the TaylorMade cart at my shop has a couple C-Tapers. Even if you're not interested in the TMAG heads, you could get a feel for the shaft.

 

 

That is what I thought also about the C Tapers. I read that last night. I was originally thinking about the Tour 90's. Because I obviously need more club head speed so that I get greater distance. I did come across some Dynalite Gold that were about the same as the Tour 90's so I swapped them out and honestly, I did not see much difference. I have been going lighter and weaker trying to gain distance, but not much is happening.

 

This is the same story I had with the driver. I was seeing maybe 7 to 10 yards difference on the various shafts. And had come to the conclusion that this was much ado about nothing. Why spend a couple of hundred bucks to gain 3 or 4 yards. I had a FT9 imix and would trade shafts regularly and most were 3 to 4 yards difference. I would go and get on the monitor and not much difference. And then I order the Tour AD DI and SHAZAM!!! It was 30 yards longer than the longest shaft. My lack of distance with the irons is not important any more because I barely use them except on the par 3's. Not really but it is a huge difference. I went from being the short game guy on the scramble team to at least the B Knocker. Maybe not the longest, but very long and in the fairway.

 

I really have not been that concerned about the irons until I fixed the driver problem. I did the on line KBS thing today and it never once told me to try the C Tapers. Obviously, the distance you put in trumps the swing speed because people are wrong about their speed. When I look at the speed it says to go with an S in C Taper and an S+ in Tour. But when I fill out the questionaire it tells me to use an R+ Tour. I have been going that way and not really seeing much change.

 

Years ago I had Hogan FTX with a 6.5 shaft. I liked them, I did not get much distance but I had an early release that I did not fix until long after those irons were gone. Also, I though I needed weaker shafts. Since then, I have fixed the early release but still hit the same distance.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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As far as being a high spin player, I just remembered a golfing buddy of mine says that he can always tell when my ball is passing by because he can hear it spinning. He says it sounds like a top spinning around as it comes to the green. Now that I think about it he is not the only one I have heard that from.

 

I do not launch the ball all that high. Not that I can not, but we have a lot of wind here and high balls, with lots of spin, are not a very good combination.

 

As an aside, I downloaded two "wind caddie" apps a few weeks ago. Yes, I know they are illegal in tournaments. And they are supposed to tell how much the wind affects the ball. Well, not my shots. Side to side movement are about right. And the "tailwind" is not far off, but a "headwind" is not even in the ball park. I have been wondering if they made a unit error. Because they say it will be 15 feet short and mine is 15 yards short.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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My experience? Little bit of column A, little bit of column B. Switching shafts can have a big impact on ball flight and distance. Switching heads can do the same.

I will agree with you it is a combination of both and I would also say he has hit on possibly a perfect combination for him may be hard to duplicate with different heads. He seems really pumped up by this find I would suggest buying that paticular set

Driver --- Honma G1-X Stock R Flex----  3W Callaway Steelhead UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff--- 2 iron 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R flex-------- Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex shafts--- SW Cleveland 588 Sensicore S-400-- Putter Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye Fluted shaft-- Bag Old School Hoofer I had in the stash--- Goes along with my raggety persona

 

 

 

 

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That's the thing, when comparing comparably priced clubs, I do think Mizuno comes out on top (I haven't tried the W/S), but there was only a tiny difference in feel between my Dynacrafts and the Mizunos.

 

I haven't tested FG Tour V2 or FG Tour as a Players CB against Mizuno only the blades.

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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FWIW, I did hit/play the WS FG Tour when I was Looking @ the MP-63s & to make a long story short, no comparison..Not even in same class..JMHO..Maybe they could go up against the JPX-800 Pro as far as apple to apple, though to compare 'em to the 63s is an apple to oranges comparison, from design to performance..With all due respect to Ricky & Paddy...Seriously...Fairways & Greens 4ever...

 

I figured as much, I figured that W/S really just did it well in the blade lines and the Players CB well not sure, FG Tour seemed more GI to me then Players CB from reading specs and looking at it but W/S Tour V2 got good reviews here on MGS and looks more like Titleist AP2s maybe, haven't hit any CBs from W/S only speaking on their blade :)

 

When it comes to a Players CB like MP-63 i haven't hit something better yet I'll be honest

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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RR: If you're looking for an iron shaft to bring down spin, nothing (in my experience) compares to the KBS C-Taper. You will have a tough time finding it on fitting carts because it's relatively new, but it's worth checking out. FWIW, the TaylorMade cart at my shop has a couple C-Tapers. Even if you're not interested in the TMAG heads, you could get a feel for the shaft.

 

 

I'd put the Dynamic Gold Tour Issues up against the C-Tapers any day of the week. I will say, from a builder's perspective, throw conventional wisdom out the window when building a set with C-Tapers. They swingweight differently than LOTS of shafts due to how they're balanced. I love the C-Tapers, but I also love the DG Tour Issues. Neither are a bad choice, just depends on feel. To me, and it's saying a lot because I love the feel of the KBS Tours, just wished the spin wasn't off the charts for me, the Dynamic Gold TI's feel more smooth than the C-Tapers. One thing about Kim Braly's product, though, you definitely know when you've missed one with the C-Tapers, because the sound changes tremendously.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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I, of course, did not hit many good shots today at the golf store but got to try out the KBS Shafts. The Tour 90's were too weak, too high, and too much spin. and way too short. The same could be said with the S300s except the S300's are not too high. On the few good ones I did hit, most bad ones were pulls from coming over the top, something about hitting in a building does not agree with me. It was the wifes birthday so I could not spend as much time as I wanted with these shafts.

 

Matt thanks for the tip on the TMag cart.

 

I was able to get the R11 head with a C Taper and a Tour 90. I found an Adams a12 Black with a Tour. I suspect that the really good numbers I got with the Tour were partially cause by the a12 head. It was superior to the R11 IMO. And before you say that I do not like TMag, I will say that I like TMag better than Adams. I have never it an Adams club I liked, until today. I have seen some I liked but not when I hit them.

 

I did find that I got better results from the PX6.5 than the PX5.5.

 

Not sure that the good numbers are but I was getting with the R11 6 iron with KBS Tour 78 mph head, 112 mph ball speed, 16.4 degree launch, and 6600 rpm back spin, 265 side spin, and 166 carry.

 

With the R11 6 iron C Taper about the same speed 14.6 launch, and 6140 back spin. and 172 carry.

 

The PX 6.5 were not lots of different from the tours and and c tapers but the dgs were 155 carry

 

155 is about what I get now out of my 6 iron.(One set of irons anyway.) I did not take my clubs to see what type of spin and all I am getting now. but I would guess that it was more spin. The fitter guy said those numbers with the KBS shafts were not bad. And even thought that the flight was angles and spin were high I would definately be holding greens with a 6 iron.

 

I think it may come down to do I want the black shaft or the satin finish.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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RR: If you're looking for an iron shaft to bring down spin, nothing (in my experience) compares to the KBS C-Taper.

 

Which I still find fascinating since they did neither for me. VS the tour sure, but they weren't even close to the DG's in launch, though pretty close in spin. Still higher in both though for me.

 

The guy at GG did say KBS Tours and Project X will go lower than DGs though, which I thought strange because the True Temper website lists the DGs are low launch shafts.

 

Eh?

That's certainly the first time I've ever heard that from any one.

 

 

I'd put the Dynamic Gold Tour Issues up against the C-Tapers any day of the week. I will say, from a builder's perspective, throw conventional wisdom out the window when building a set with C-Tapers. They swingweight differently than LOTS of shafts due to how they're balanced. I love the C-Tapers, but I also love the DG Tour Issues. Neither are a bad choice, just depends on feel. To me, and it's saying a lot because I love the feel of the KBS Tours, just wished the spin wasn't off the charts for me, the Dynamic Gold TI's feel more smooth than the C-Tapers. One thing about Kim Braly's product, though, you definitely know when you've missed one with the C-Tapers, because the sound changes tremendously.

 

I'm right there with you RB, aside from the love of the feel of KBS Tours anyways which I could take or leave easily.

I laught at your claims to fight a zombie apocalypse when most of you can't stand up to a Spider

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I'd put the Dynamic Gold Tour Issues up against the C-Tapers any day of the week. I will say, from a builder's perspective, throw conventional wisdom out the window when building a set with C-Tapers. They swingweight differently than LOTS of shafts due to how they're balanced. I love the C-Tapers, but I also love the DG Tour Issues. Neither are a bad choice, just depends on feel. To me, and it's saying a lot because I love the feel of the KBS Tours, just wished the spin wasn't off the charts for me, the Dynamic Gold TI's feel more smooth than the C-Tapers. One thing about Kim Braly's product, though, you definitely know when you've missed one with the C-Tapers, because the sound changes tremendously.

 

How much does a 5-PW set of DG TI cost?

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I, of course, did not hit many good shots today at the golf store but got to try out the KBS Shafts. The Tour 90's were too weak, too high, and too much spin. and way too short. The same could be said with the S300s except the S300's are not too high. On the few good ones I did hit, most bad ones were pulls from coming over the top, something about hitting in a building does not agree with me. It was the wifes birthday so I could not spend as much time as I wanted with these shafts.

 

Matt thanks for the tip on the TMag cart.

 

I was able to get the R11 head with a C Taper and a Tour 90. I found an Adams a12 Black with a Tour. I suspect that the really good numbers I got with the Tour were partially cause by the a12 head. It was superior to the R11 IMO. And before you say that I do not like TMag, I will say that I like TMag better than Adams. I have never it an Adams club I liked, until today. I have seen some I liked but not when I hit them.

 

I did find that I got better results from the PX6.5 than the PX5.5.

 

Not sure that the good numbers are but I was getting with the R11 6 iron with KBS Tour 78 mph head, 112 mph ball speed, 16.4 degree launch, and 6600 rpm back spin, 265 side spin, and 166 carry.

 

With the R11 6 iron C Taper about the same speed 14.6 launch, and 6140 back spin. and 172 carry.

 

The PX 6.5 were not lots of different from the tours and and c tapers but the dgs were 155 carry

 

155 is about what I get now out of my 6 iron.(One set of irons anyway.) I did not take my clubs to see what type of spin and all I am getting now. but I would guess that it was more spin. The fitter guy said those numbers with the KBS shafts were not bad. And even thought that the flight was angles and spin were high I would definately be holding greens with a 6 iron.

 

I think it may come down to do I want the black shaft or the satin finish.

 

I had to go and dig out my old numbers from when I first got my C-Taper XS in the Titleist AP2 with the 6 iron, I am sure those number have changed now but this was over a year ago at this point. I'll try to get some more updated numbers on the launch monitor when i test the Black Ops shaft. I have always been sort of a high launch higher spin player and that made KBS Tour and Tour 90 really the wrong way to go for my short irons. I'd have to go back and test it again now to see as my swing has changed since these number got recorded.

 

Here is PGA Tour Averages just for a reference --> http://mytrackman.com/TrackMan.Online.DrivingRange/PGANumbers.html

Numbers with the 6 iron

Carry Distance - low 199, high 206

Lunch Angle - low 18.1, high 20.0

Spin Rate - low 4470, high 4780

KZG VC-420 ML (10.5* Loft & 0.2* Open Face Angle) @ 44.50" (2" Bore Depth) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD DI-7 Stiff

Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 16.5* @ 42.50" w/ RT Technologies Zeus (85g) Stiff (Tipped 1/2")

Srixon Z U45 19.0* @ 39.75" w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 MB 3-P @ 38.75" - 35.25" (0.25" under), 60.5* - 64.0* (0.5* upright), 22* - 48* (1* weak) w/ KBS Tour-V X-Stiff (Soft Stepped 1x)

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 54-12 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin (Blade) 60-10 @ 35.25", 64.00* w/ True Temper Dynamic Gold s400

Lamkin UTX Wrap, Including Grip Core: 1/32 over (top hand), 1/16 over (bottom hand)

Srixon Z-Star

 

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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I had to go and dig out my old numbers from when I first got my C-Taper XS in the Titleist AP2 with the 6 iron, I am sure those number have changed now but this was over a year ago at this point. I'll try to get some more updated numbers on the launch monitor when i test the Black Ops shaft. I have always been sort of a high launch higher spin player and that made KBS Tour and Tour 90 really the wrong way to go for my short irons. I'd have to go back and test it again now to see as my swing has changed since these number got recorded.

 

Here is PGA Tour Averages just for a reference --> http://mytrackman.co...PGANumbers.html

Numbers with the 6 iron

Carry Distance - low 199, high 206

Lunch Angle - low 18.1, high 20.0

Spin Rate - low 4470, high 4780

 

 

Looked at the trackman link, and once again I am closer to the LPGA numbers, does this mean I get to move to the forward tees? :P

 

 

I am watching the LPGA now and honestly I do not have the legs to move up to the forward tee. You got to love a sport that features tan legs and short skirts. I occasionally ever see the ball flight.

 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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