Maintaining swing tempo from wedges to driver

[AmateurStatus]

So I've been reading a lot about using a 3.0 swing tempo (i.e the backswing taking 3 times longer than the downswing) and have tried putting it into practice.  For wedges and short irons it seems to be really easy and the result is pretty good, consistent ball striking and predictable results (only tried on the driving range so far but will try it on course as well).  For longer irons the tempo seems to take a bit longer, maybe 3.1-3.2 but where I'm really struggling to hit the 3.0 tempo is in the driver which ends up being around 3.4.  Not sure if it's because the club is longer/heavier or what but the backswing takes much longer (from about 1.1-1.2 seconds with an iron to about 1.3-1.4 seconds with the driver) while the downswing stays the same for pretty much all clubs around 0.37-0.39 seconds. 

 

Should I try to take the driver back more quickly or should the backswing go back less (i.e. rotate less)? I believe there is merit in a 3.0 swing tempo so would like to get my driver in this range.

[tony@CIC]

I find that the faster I take the driver back the more I'll miss the sweet spot or worse yet not square the  face. It's also easier to me to load up the driver with a slower backswing.  

[cnosil]

7 hours ago, AmateurStatus said:

Should I try to take the driver back more quickly or should the backswing go back less (i.e. rotate less)? I believe there is merit in a 3.0 swing tempo so would like to get my driver in this range.

Impossible to tell without seeing your swing.   You could be over swinging with the longer clubs or as you indicated you backswing could be too slow.    Have you compared where your arms and club stop on driver full swing versus a short iron full swing?   Simple answer is to experiment/practice and see what gives you the tempo you want with the best results. 

[Kenny B]

59 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

I find that the faster I take the driver back the more I'll miss the sweet spot or worse yet not square the  face. It's also easier to me to load up the driver with a slower backswing.  

Nothing happens fast in my swing.

[release]

9 hours ago, AmateurStatus said:

So I've been reading a lot about using a 3.0 swing tempo (i.e the backswing taking 3 times longer than the downswing) and have tried putting it into practice.  For wedges and short irons it seems to be really easy and the result is pretty good, consistent ball striking and predictable results (only tried on the driving range so far but will try it on course as well).  For longer irons the tempo seems to take a bit longer, maybe 3.1-3.2 but where I'm really struggling to hit the 3.0 tempo is in the driver which ends up being around 3.4.  Not sure if it's because the club is longer/heavier or what but the backswing takes much longer (from about 1.1-1.2 seconds with an iron to about 1.3-1.4 seconds with the driver) while the downswing stays the same for pretty much all clubs around 0.37-0.39 seconds. 

 

Should I try to take the driver back more quickly or should the backswing go back less (i.e. rotate less)? I believe there is merit in a 3.0 swing tempo so would like to get my driver in this range.

The driver is the longest stick in the bag and the wedge is the shortest of all full swing stick.  To maintain the same tempo of your core speed, the head of the driver will have to travel at a greater speed than the wedge.  

Instead of trying to figure out the numbers which is easy to compile and understand, try just accelerate through the golf ball at your personal best.  

Breaking down the sequence will help you understand what is, not a guide line for must.

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

Impossible to tell without seeing your swing.   You could be over swinging with the longer clubs or as you indicated you backswing could be too slow.    Have you compared where your arms and club stop on driver full swing versus a short iron full swing?   Simple answer is to experiment/practice and see what gives you the tempo you want with the best results. 

This. It could also be a bad fit in the shaft weight, overran weigh and feel if the longer clubs.

Ive seen several respected fitters talk about creating the same feel throughout the bag 

[billybogey]

This is an Old Guy & a Hacker speaking here. Thanks you for input & do like K.I.S.S. as did understand what Tony "The Tiger" said. If my Swing is "a Blur" know my Backswing is too fast[ Faster than my Downswing} results are not good. Also know a Guy who is at least 20 yrs. younger than me who often is 2 FWY's over but he does swing with "A Blur".  & ,at least, I can usually find mine!!

Yuk; Yuk!!

Bill Bamber

Edmonton Alberta

[AmateurStatus]

Some good points made above so here is my on-course and range experience since trying to implement a 3.0 swing tempo.  A day or so after I posted this question I played an 18 hole round - the first 3 holes were abysmal, I found trying to speed up my backswing resulted in lots of bad shots (bogey, bogey, triple bogey for those holes) which was a much different result from my previous driving range outing possibly because hitting from an uneven grass surface is much different from a smooth artificial turf surface.  I decided I wanted to keep trying a 3.0 swing tempo so I tried reducing the backswing and smoothing out the downswing which resulted in much better contact and directional control - the remaining 15 holes saw 5 bogeys and 10 pars.  I think a 3.0 swing tempo is a good target to aim for and I'll probably keep trying to achieve it using a shorter backswing as opposed to a faster backswing.

[Swing Pastor]

Get a Metronome app on your phone. Set it to 3/4 time and start with 185. That is a good benchmark to putting together a tempo that works for you. Speed it up or slow it down to see what works best. It'll probably get up to 190-195. I've found that a player, once they have a tempo that feels right to them, hits every club with that tempo. 

Then, when playing, put it on your earbuds on the range when warming up. It'll help you get the day started properly. I like my players, if playing by themselves or with friends, to put the metronome on while hitting shots. It's amazing at how much quicker we get when playing.

Enjoy...

[Donn lost in San Diego]

Today's drivers are 1 - 3 inches longer than pre- Big Bertha/Burner and graphite shafts and thus travel a lot further distance, takes more time, or huge % increase in muscle.  Many of the world's best pros are very "slow" or deliberate backswing and transition on driver and 3 wood. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 hours ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

Today's drivers are 1 - 3 inches longer than pre- Big Bertha/Burner and graphite shafts and thus travel a lot further distance, takes more time, or huge % increase in muscle.  Many of the world's best pros are very "slow" or deliberate backswing and transition on driver and 3 wood. 

Most pros don’t have a deliberate or slow backswing with any club nor do they have deliberate or slow transition. They all have pretty much the same tempo/flow throughout the back.

The slow backswing or the low and slow takeaway lead to improper hip movements.

 

[Snowmonkeys1310]

Would advise not getting too obsessed with chasing a perfect tempo, as the golf swing is supposed to be an "athletic" movement. 

All your tempo needs to do is allow you to make a controlled, athletic swing, and there isn't some perfect tempo out there that you must have in order to do that. 

Video below is a great example of two elite players with vastly different tempos.

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Snowmonkeys1310

[Donn lost in San Diego]

Yep.  Rahm and Finau to look at them, ya would never want to emulate, ya might wonder how they even are on TOUR.  Hideki Mat and I think Song Jae Im, or Tom Kin, or maybe Beng On, (pardon all my spellings) have slower takeaway and pause at the top.  For me, I can't muscle a longer shaft around under control at the same tempo as my shorter clubs.  As for Low and Slow, Mickey Wright was the King and Queen of low.

As for hips, amy tempo has to be coordinated.  Duffers can throw any body part out of rhythm, fast or slow. 

[cnosil]

23 hours ago, Snowmonkeys1310 said:

Would advise not getting too obsessed with chasing a perfect tempo, as the golf swing is supposed to be an "athletic" movement. 

All your tempo needs to do is allow you to make a controlled, athletic swing, and there isn't some perfect tempo out there that you must have in order to do that. 

Video below is a great example of two elite players with vastly different tempos.

 

 

The speed and length of their swings are different but their tempos are both 3:1; which based on studies is ideal and what most every tour player does.  here are articles that state both Finau and Rahm have the same tempo and that they are 3:1. 
 

https://golf.com/instruction/jon-rahm-swing-looks-flawed-actually-perfect/

https://www.golfbpm.com/blog/tony-finau-back-to-back-pga-tour-wins-golf-music-for-perfect-tempo

 

 

 

[cnosil]

11 hours ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

Yep.  Rahm and Finau to look at them, ya would never want to emulate, ya might wonder how they even are on TOUR.  Hideki Mat and I think Song Jae Im, or Tom Kin, or maybe Beng On, (pardon all my spellings) have slower takeaway and pause at the top.  For me, I can't muscle a longer shaft around under control at the same tempo as my shorter clubs.  As for Low and Slow, Mickey Wright was the King and Queen of low.

All those players probably have a 3:1 tempo.  Studies show that is the ideal tempo for the golf swing with all clubs.   I posted links to articles that both Rahm and Finau are 3:1. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

The pause of those players is perception they don’t actually pause they are still moving in the swing and working pressure to the lead side. A pause would lead to there being separate movements in the swing but in reality the swing is a flowing movement from takeaway to downswing.

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

On 7/27/2023 at 4:47 AM, tony@CIC said:

I find that the faster I take the driver back the more I'll miss the sweet spot or worse yet not square the  face. It's also easier to me to load up the driver with a slower backswing.  

My coach has a saying, slow-slow-fast. If I go all fast it’s a mess. Need a balance. 

[TylorJudd]

I shorten my back swing to achieve this. If I speed my tempo up with any club, my hands get way head and inside leading to disaster. It might feel like a knock down swing but the power is immense because of that ideal tempo range @cnosil stated. As also stated, you may run into shaft weight issues quickly when going down this road. 

I can be totally wrong here, but I believe most of our power in our swing is attributed to our transistion

[Mr. Mushball]

To me it's not about how fast the backswing is.  When I'm swinging well the backswing is deliberate. Sometimes it's fast, sometimes it's slower, but the relationship of the tempo remains the same.  I have to wait until I feel "hang time" at the top, and a longer backswing does not usually work well.  This also helps me add the 3 in the 3:1.  Otherwise it's 1, 2, - 4!  Generally ends in a chunk or an overswing.