Help with high-spin-wedge shot

[RoverRick]

Hmmm....I looked at the original file frame by frame and it looks like the clubhead and hands get there about the same time...hands maybe an inch or two ahead of the clubhead....but not much.

 

In the slow motion front view if you start hitting stop and play at the top of your backswing, you can see that early in the swing the clubhead appears (KEYWORD here, appears) to really pick up speed between the 10 o'clock and 9 o'clock position. And the head of the club is preceeding the hands all the way to the ball. You are getting a good hip turn but not really a shift of the hips.

Others may chime in here that are more knowledge able about helping others. I simply help myself.

[JMiller]

Being right eye dominant mysellf I have this to say. "Eye dominance has nothing to do with this." " I found that by looking at the front of the ball I absolutely had to hit it first. This lead to better contact. Especially with high spinning wedges because the ball must be compressed to hit the low trajectory high spinning ball. "

 

I do not look at the ball at all while putting. Either the hole or a spot in front of the ball. Which is a different thread.

 

If you hit the ground just in front of the ball, but not the ground behind the ball. then you have hit the ball first. NO matter which eye you saw it out of.

 

fair enough man, I can agree at times I do look at the front of the ball but not often, more center top of the ball.

[JMiller]

In the slow motion front view if you start hitting stop and play at the top of your backswing, you can see that early in the swing the clubhead appears (KEYWORD here, appears) to really pick up speed between the 10 o'clock and 9 o'clock position. And the head of the club is preceeding the hands all the way to the ball. You are getting a good hip turn but not really a shift of the hips.

Others may chime in here that are more knowledge able about helping others. I simply help myself.

 

I saw the same thing from about 9 o'clock to 7 o'clock the shaft appears to pre-kick downwards. it is at the end end of the 0:11 second mark of the full swing video. I can see the shaft bending in the wrong direction in terms of lag at that point.

 

He has a one-plane swing the down swing should be mostly hip turn and not a lot of slide. In the backswing the arms and chest move as one unit and at the top the left arm and shoulders are on the same plane. The down swing sequence has to be mostly hip rotation and not any slide to make good contact, this is actually a really good one-plane golf swing, shaft stays on plane doesn't leave it at any point. Again nothing about it says it is a bad golf swing, it is just a one-plane swing.

 

Only real recommendation I can give is ball position is sitting at the right ear rather then the left on the full swing, that full swing ball position is actually a good position for the low spinner if you wanted to try it there.

[BK in TEXAS]

I saw the same thing from about 9 o'clock to 7 o'clock the shaft appears to pre-kick downwards. it is at the end end of the 0:11 second mark of the full swing video. I can see the shaft bending in the wrong direction in terms of lag at that point.

 

I have to admit to ignorance here......why is that bad?

Or maybe the better question would be; If I fix that, what would I expect to gain?

 

BTW...very cool of you guys taking the time to look at this

 

BK

[JMiller]

I have to admit to ignorance here......why is that bad?

Or maybe the better question would be; If I fix that, what would I expect to gain?

 

BTW...very cool of you guys taking the time to look at this

 

BK

 

In simple terms all the release energy has already been put out into the head well before impact if it is really happening that way. So by time you make impact you have no stored up energy left to pop into the ball with the shaft. It can rob you of some distance, spin and consistency.

 

 

Johnathan Byrd has a really good one plane swing been compared to Hogan a lot actually. Here is a video of him talking about his swing but angle is a little off ball position looks more back then it really is. But the thing to watch is the shaft and his hands, he holds his wrist set very deep into the swing before the club head starts to come down towards the ground. In this video we are looking at 0:48 to 0:51 and what the hands and shaft are doing differently then your full swing from 0:10 to 0:12. More wrist set lower into the down swing (3 - 5 release factor on Mizuno Shaft optimizer) creates more lag and power for distance and consistency.

[RoverRick]

In simple terms all the release energy has already been put out into the head well before impact if it is really happening that way. So by time you make impact you have no stored up energy left to pop into the ball with the shaft. It can rob you of some distance, spin and consistency.

 

 

Johnathan Byrd has a really good one plane swing been compared to Hogan a lot actually. Here is a video of him talking about his swing but angle is a little off ball position looks more back then it really is. But the thing to watch is the shaft and his hands, he holds his wrist set very deep into the swing before the club head starts to come down towards the ground. In this video we are looking at 0:48 to 0:51 and what the hands and shaft are doing differently then your full swing from 0:10 to 0:12. More wrist set lower into the down swing (3 - 5 release factor on Mizuno Shaft optimizer) creates more lag and power for distance and consistency.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cMQjRq6Awc

 

I agree with Mr, Miller on this point. Everything is really good except that if you can delay any wrist movement and keep the club "cocked" until waist high this will really help with power and consitancy. I have been fighting this battle for months and today on the last 9 holes I was doing it again. Could have been the drinks that caused it but it is still irritaing.

[BK in TEXAS]

I agree with Mr, Miller on this point. Everything is really good except that if you can delay any wrist movement and keep the club "cocked" until waist high this will really help with power and consitancy.

Consistency is always good. I tried a few tonight with the lag/delay and it felt weird. I'll slowly start working on it. Slowly. I'm hitting my irons pretty good and am suuuuure to screw it up if I wholesale change anything

 

On a side note....actually the original note....the spinning wedge shot is working well at longer distances (50-70 yards) where I hit it kinda hard. The more delicate shorter shots....not so much. But still, I'm happy with the results after only a few days working on it.

[GolfSpy WD]

Consistency is always good. I tried a few tonight with the lag/delay and it felt weird. I'll slowly start working on it. Slowly. I'm hitting my irons pretty good and am suuuuure to screw it up if I wholesale change anything

 

On a side note....actually the original note....the spinning wedge shot is working well at longer distances (50-70 yards) where I hit it kinda hard. The more delicate shorter shots....not so much. But still, I'm happy with the results after only a few days working on it.

 

If a friend of yours has a tour striker, you should try it out. It's pretty magical when it comes to giving feedback for generating lag. Not saying my swing is perfect, but it fixed my flipping issue after three range sessions.

[RoverRick]

Consistency is always good. I tried a few tonight with the lag/delay and it felt weird. I'll slowly start working on it. Slowly. I'm hitting my irons pretty good and am suuuuure to screw it up if I wholesale change anything

 

On a side note....actually the original note....the spinning wedge shot is working well at longer distances (50-70 yards) where I hit it kinda hard. The more delicate shorter shots....not so much. But still, I'm happy with the results after only a few days working on it.

 

 

You can take less backswing and do it but it is difficult less than 40 yards. I can do it at 30 yards if I have my 64* wedge. Where this shot is particularly useful to me is using an 8 iron from 100 yards, in a very strong wind. 9 iron is about 93 yards. However, inside 40 yards there are other alternatives. But as I said, I did it the other day from like 4 yards off the green when I could not flop or even putt it with out going way passed it. I do not want to have to do it again.

[JMiller]

Consistency is always good. I tried a few tonight with the lag/delay and it felt weird. I'll slowly start working on it. Slowly. I'm hitting my irons pretty good and am suuuuure to screw it up if I wholesale change anything

 

On a side note....actually the original note....the spinning wedge shot is working well at longer distances (50-70 yards) where I hit it kinda hard. The more delicate shorter shots....not so much. But still, I'm happy with the results after only a few days working on it.

 

really I use the low spinner one hop stop from 50 to 100 yards as well anything closer is a different technique to get a lot of spin and is harder to execute properly. I tend to play a pitch and run type shot inside 50 yards.

 

There is a technique that can get a ton of spin on C-C wedges still from even a little 5 yard pitch but it takes a 60* or 64* opened (think Phil here) with little to no bounce and picking it clean off the fairway like a mini flop shot. This involves adding a little loft with the right wrist through impact which for some golfers is asking to blade or fat the shot takes a lot of practice and is a last resort thing in my bag.

[RookieBlue7]

BK, the reason you're having trouble keeping the wrists firm is because you're taking it back too far to hit that shot. The low trajectory spinning wedge shot (I'm going to refer to it as the nipper from here on out as that's what it was called when I learned it and what I've called it since then) is executed with a no more than waist high backswing. Try stopping at waist high instead of taking nearly a full swing, you'll get the hang of it.

[RoverRick]

I this is my "go to" shot for 30 to 100 yards. I have 4 clubs I normally use, but will not hesitate to even use the driver if the situation is unusual enough but typically use only short irons and wedges. I have two main swings. The waist high and the shoulder high. The thing about this shot is you really do not need to swing hard or fast. By focusing on perfect contact, you will get your desired results easier that swinging hard.

[JMiller]

I this is my "go to" shot for 30 to 100 yards. I have 4 clubs I normally use, but will not hesitate to even use the driver if the situation is unusual enough but typically use only short irons and wedges. I have two main swings. The waist high and the shoulder high. The thing about this shot is you really do not need to swing hard or fast. By focusing on perfect contact, you will get your desired results easier that swinging hard.

 

Exactly, I think we both are using a version of the "clock system" The easiest way to explain it is the ave Pelz clock system. Also, yes these shots are nothing more then smooth make sure to make perfect contact on the ball, type of shots. It is a "touch shot" rather then a "power shot". Driver = power, irons and wedges = touch.

 

Dave Pelz has the system that is 4 wedges and 3 positions

--> shaft parallel to ground / hands waist high (7 or 7:30)

--> arms parallel to the ground / full wrist hinge (9 o'clock)

--> arms about shoulder high or at the chin (10 or 10:30)

[BK in TEXAS]

Dave Pelz has the system that is 4 wedges and 3 positions

--> shaft parallel to ground / hands waist high (7 or 7:30)

--> arms parallel to the ground / full wrist hinge (9 o'clock)

--> arms about shoulder high or at the chin (10 or 10:30)

That's a good way to approach it...still need to work on distance control.

 

I played a good round today. Perfect for working in "nipper" practice since there was a hacker in front of us (playing the "blue tees" I might add) and nobody at all behind all day long. It went OK. Worked best for me 40-60 yards.

 

However, about the normal full swing....so much for working it in slowly. After the first two holes (don't ask), I ended up swinging with the lag you & Rick mentioned all day. It still felt kinda weird, but I was significantly more accurate with it. The ball went straight. I was fighting/compensating for a draw/hook before.

[BK in TEXAS]

So I figured I'd capture a video swinging with a little more lag, and I have to say I was a bit surprised. Not so much at the club position at waist height, but how much more I seem to be leaning towards the target. The only thing I did different from swing to swing was make an ever so slight move towards the ball with the butt of the club before starting the clubhead around. Is that a normal by-product of lagging the clubhead?

 

 

[RoverRick]

You are leaning more towards the target because you have shifted your weight to the left. Which is a good thing. To me, the reason that the ball is forward of center, or in line with the left ear at address is because you have shifted forward during the swing to the point that now the center if your stance is more forward. As the left leg straightens, and the hips have come forward and the weight has shifted than this point it will look at the next bit of video, your left side will begin to raise up and actually come back just a bit but all your weight will be on a straight left leg.

 

Another by product of this hitting the ball in the center of a square clubface is that it will also go farther. At which point, you can slowdown a little to keep the same distance, which will allow you to make even better contact. It is the darnedest thing I have ever seen. Swing easy, hit the ball properly, and it really goes far and straight. Then all of a sudden you find you need to work on your putting, because you are on the green more.

[JMiller]

So I figured I'd capture a video swinging with a little more lag, and I have to say I was a bit surprised. Not so much at the club position at waist height, but how much more I seem to be leaning towards the target. The only thing I did different from swing to swing was make an ever so slight move towards the ball with the butt of the club before starting the clubhead around. Is that a normal by-product of lagging the clubhead?

 

 

 

Yes, the first move in the down swing is typically a weight shift to the front foot of some kind. This will drop the hands a little like they are falling straight down, shoulders and hands are very passive feeling in the first move down. The left hand pulls the butt down to thigh high the right hand and arm still passive fully locked into thigh high.

 

Once at waist high then you can fire the right arm as hard as you want as long as that arm only straightens and doesn't slam the club head closed. The left hand should control the face for shot shape and trajectory, the right arm is just for power into the back of the ball. Once the right arm is straightened it is done in the golf swing. So it needs to happen in the proper location and sequence.

[JMiller]

You are leaning more towards the target because you have shifted your weight to the left. Which is a good thing. To me, the reason that the ball is forward of center, or in line with the left ear at address is because you have shifted forward during the swing to the point that now the center if your stance is more forward. As the left leg straightens, and the hips have come forward and the weight has shifted than this point it will look at the next bit of video, your left side will begin to raise up and actually come back just a bit but all your weight will be on a straight left leg.

 

Another by product of this hitting the ball in the center of a square clubface is that it will also go farther. At which point, you can slowdown a little to keep the same distance, which will allow you to make even better contact. It is the darnedest thing I have ever seen. Swing easy, hit the ball properly, and it really goes far and straight. Then all of a sudden you find you need to work on your putting, because you are on the green more.

 

Yea I know right, that is a good feeling to know all you need to heavily work on is wedges and putting

[RoverRick]

With a wedge in my hand I feel like I can get up and down. With a putter I hope I can get up and down. But on my way to work on the new putter now.

[JMiller]

With a wedge in my hand I feel like I can get up and down. With a putter I hope I can get up and down. But on my way to work on the new putter now.

 

I have an okay tee to green game, but my short game and putting is in the crapper I get a lot of practice from my swing being too deep behind my body at the top and spraying it 5 yards off the green lol. I hit one wedge that didn't stop on the green and went over onto the face of a bunker, my put back with hte same wedge was canned for a par. I can have some great shots and some not so great shots with wedges.

 

It's being worked on from less then 50 yards and in, say that is weak in my game along with putting currently. The full swing is super easy to fix now that I know the source of my error.

 

dnag we are getting OT bad now, sorry about that... high spin wedge looking forward to seeing the new video wiht lag