Should your handicap dictate your tee box selection?

[BIG STU]

On 8/13/2024 at 3:15 PM, chisag said:

 

... Just read this today from one of the longest hitters in his prime:
 

Fred Couples staged a comeback at this week’s Boeing Classic; this was his first event since the Masters in April. It went well — Couples finished T18.

“I’m tickled pink to be playing,” he told the Seattle Times. He also showed off his bag, which features a whole bunch of headcovers.

I have six woods,” Couples said. “Driver, 3-wood, 5-wood, 4-rescue, 5-rescue, 6-rescue. And I’m loving life. It’s going to get me through these three days.”

Oh trust me the 9 wood stays handy and I picked up a little Cobra 29* hybrid with a NVS Senior hybrid shaft. I picked up that little Hybrid cheap like a year ago. Oh yes I know my time will come sooner or later. A 5 iron though will not ever leave the bag I do too many bump and runs with it. And to be completely honest My Mac Hogans have #2 Apex shafts which are a Senior shaft plus I have them soft tipped with lead tape low on the muscle. Yep they have some bottom end kick that is one of the reasons I can still hit them.

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, Stuka44 said:

I just read through this thread.  Was just going to type something virtually identical.   Contrary to most times , I agree with @DaveP043 . 

Thanks for agreeing (finally!).  I didn't really intend my post to be about slow play in general, I agree with you that slow players are slow from just about any tee they choose.  Everyone hates slow play, and nobody admits to being a slow player, but that's another story.  I was really giving advice to @Rob Person, who seems a pretty conscientious guy, that he should be aware that increased distance CAN cause some people to play slower.  If that's the case, that player should consider not playing those longer tees when there are other folks behind him.  

[Donn lost in San Diego]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Thanks for agreeing (finally!).  I didn't really intend my post to be about slow play in general, I agree with you that slow players are slow from just about any tee they choose.  Everyone hates slow play, and nobody admits to being a slow player, but that's another story.  I was really giving advice to @Rob Person, who seems a pretty conscientious guy, that he should be aware that increased distance CAN cause some people to play slower.  If that's the case, that player should consider not playing those longer tees when there are other folks behind him.  

Distance off the tee counts most.  A lousy short game / putting can drive hdcp up a lot, but isn't a tee box issue.

[Rob Person]

3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Thanks for agreeing (finally!).  I didn't really intend my post to be about slow play in general, I agree with you that slow players are slow from just about any tee they choose.  Everyone hates slow play, and nobody admits to being a slow player, but that's another story.  I was really giving advice to @Rob Person, who seems a pretty conscientious guy, that he should be aware that increased distance CAN cause some people to play slower.  If that's the case, that player should consider not playing those longer tees when there are other folks behind him.  

Thanks for that!  I try to be as well.paced as possible.  

May try the back tees someday,  but never off the first tee!  My driver definitely will not cooperate for sure!  Ha!  

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

Distance off the tee counts most.  A lousy short game / putting can drive hdcp up a lot, but isn't a tee box issue.

Does that change the advice I gave?  If a player moves back, and finds that he's playing slower, he should consider moving back up to his normal tees, at least when there are people waiting on him.

[Donn lost in San Diego]

Since I am not submitting scores, I mix n match sometimes.  If it saves time on a shorter par 4, I'll play from blue if the group is.  Play from a red on a long hole at a tough course.  Until I read it here a few weeks earlier, I din't know the USGA recommendation that the club you need on 2nd shot on typical par 4 determines where you should tee.  If you need 5 iron or more all the time, you should tee shorter.  7 iron is the USGA base line for approach shot on a par 4.

If courses would post this USGA guide, it will benefit all of us. 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

On 8/14/2024 at 10:51 AM, DaveP043 said:

What do you do for someone who varies his tees, perhaps forward with one group of friends, and back one set with a different group?

I talked to the course today. My goodness, I never thought they could get that confused on something they are supposed to be in charge of. “Well we don’t have tournaments that often. We have this USGA sheet hanging on the wall. You can look at this chart for your handicap to see how many strokes you give.” So basically no help. 
 

I looked at the USGA sheet and then I was even more confused. So my handicap from my senior tees says I have to give six strokes to someone on the back tees with the same handicap. How does that make any sense. I’m going to dig into this further. 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

Who know what happens sometimes. Double triple is a new one. But I rather that then see that on my score card

Edited August 17 by Tom the Golf Nut
Double triple post.

[Rob Person]

28 minutes ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

I talked to the course today. My goodness, I never thought they could get that confused on something they are supposed to be in charge of. “Well we don’t have tournaments that often. We have this USGA sheet hanging on the wall. You can look at this chart for your handicap to see how many strokes you give.” So basically no help. 
 

I looked at the USGA sheet and then I was even more confused. So my handicap from my senior tees says I have to give six strokes to someone on the back tees with the same handicap. How does that make any sense. I’m going to dig into this further. 

I talked to the course today. My goodness, I never thought they could get that confused on something they are supposed to be in charge of. “Well we don’t have tournaments that often. We have this USGA sheet hanging on the wall. You can look at this chart for your handicap to see how many strokes you give.” So basically no help. 
 

I looked at the USGA sheet and then I was even more confused. So my handicap from my senior tees says I have to give six strokes to someone on the back tees with the same handicap. How does that make any sense. I’m going to dig into this further. 

Nice double-triple post.  

So why would someone with the same handicap,  who chooses to play longer yardages,  be given strokes?  That is confusing.   Was it just for your specific handicap or does it float that across all handicap ranges?

[cnosil]

14 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

So why would someone with the same handicap,  who chooses to play longer yardages,  be given strokes?  That is confusing.   Was it just for your specific handicap or does it float that across all handicap ranges?

That  is how  handicap indexes resolve to course handicaps.  The slope/rating of the back tees is harder  than the forward tees so if both payers have the same index then the player on the harder tees will generally get strokes.    Play from the same tees and there are no strokes.   You can try it using the USGA handicap calculator...just enter the information from your usual couse:

https://www.usga.org/course-handicap-calculator.html

[HeathS16]

On 8/10/2024 at 9:57 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:

Moving up doesn't necessarily make things easier or mean you will lower you handicap.

Case and point, I played a front tee challenge with my SM10 wedge test and shot even par on the front 9 and my handicap still went up, I was a +1 from those tees. 

 

That being said, I base my decision on total yardage.  I want to have chances to score so any course that is 6500-6700 is perfect and I love getting to challenge my scoring clubs by playing below that as well.  More birdies=more fun right? 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

1 hour ago, Rob Person said:

Nice double-triple post.  

So why would someone with the same handicap,  who chooses to play longer yardages,  be given strokes?  That is confusing.   Was it just for your specific handicap or does it float that across all handicap ranges?

It was the same across all. Makes no sense to me. I’ll be there again tomorrow maybe another Pro will be around. 

[jolter1]

If I played my handicap, I should be playing the whites. However at my age of 71, I can only drive the ball consistantly around 210, and now hitting 6 or 7 irons into greens from 150. Depending upon who I play with and which course I am playing at, I will switch from whites and senior tees.

[Rosas4653]

Agree with most of the comments, I’m 70 can carry 265 majority of the time, some days we feel like senior tees, some days we play the regular men’s tee, I/we just don’t play the tips, unless a tournament is forcing me to play from certain tees either age or hdcp, we play from where we want

[chisag]

20 minutes ago, Rosas4653 said:

Agree with most of the comments, I’m 70 can carry 265 majority of the time, some days we feel like senior tees, some days we play the regular men’s tee, I/we just don’t play the tips, unless a tournament is forcing me to play from certain tees either age or hdcp, we play from where we want

 

... I want some of your vitamins.  Roughly 8% of all amateur golfers can hit their drivers a TOTAL distance of 260yds. At age 70 if you can CARRY your drives 265 you are in elite company of less than 1% of all Am's regardless of age. At 71 I am usually longer than most I play with and I carry my driver around 235. If I could carry my driver 265 I would be playing the tips at 7000 because we get a good 30-40 yds of roll in the desert and a few holes with downslopes we can get 75yds of roll. 

[Hjcarroll]

No it should not.  It should be your driver's carry distance. 

[vandyland]

I LOVE it when the tour/equipment manufacturers put out stuff like this. This week at Castle Pines, Co. -- Ping has a cheat sheet for the elevation adjustments for their players. PLEASE NOTE THE YELLOW CIRCLED "BASELINE" -- that is at zero feet of elevation and basically what I assume they are calculating as "Tour Average" at sea level:

Alrighty - let's use some of the metrics that have been thrown out in this thread:

On 8/19/2024 at 6:49 PM, Hjcarroll said:

No it should not.  It should be your driver's carry distance. 

Okay, so the driver distance above is 304 yds. A quick google says the math is Driver distance * 28 so for these guys that is --> 304 * 28 = 8,512 yds! Anyone want to guess how many 8,500 yd courses there are on tour/majors?

Or you can use the 5 iron * 36 --> in the tour example above that would be 222 * 36 = 7,992 yds. That is actually fairly close to Castle Pines in Colorado but, of course, that is playing at 6500 ft in altitude so to do that calc you would have to use the chart above. The Castle Pines course should be 222 + 21 (85 degree adjustment at altitude) = 243 * 36 = 8,748 yards in order to challenge these players...which would be ludicrous. Again, all this is to show THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD DON'T GET PUT TO THE SAME DISTANCE TEST MOST AMATEURS SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO!

[Nick_Chilelli]

Yes, but from a different perspective. If a person is a mid to high handicapper, they should 1000% be playing from tees that are a little more forward. Distance can certainly impact a low handicapper from moving back, especially once they’re at a certain age, but it can’t be the sole influence. 
 

High handicappers can still crush the ball, but that doesn’t mean they should be playing tees that are further back. Playing tees that are more forward can help them learn course management, allows them to have more opportunities with scoring clubs, and can help them play faster. 

[Adam Wilson]

My handicap is the result of my short game. I drive the ball 250 metres on average. My putting lets me down the most. Tee box selection doesn't make any difference to my scores and I'm certainly not holding up play because of tee box selection. My home club also dictates the tee box to be played in competition, so it's out of my hands. If a high handicapper has difficulty off the tee, I can see merit in playing from the front tees. 

[MissionMan]

I'm going to say that whilst I don't believe your handicap should force you to play off specific tees, I do believe it should limit what tees you can play off. As an example, having a 24 handicap play off the tips is just going slow down the field unnecessarily. 

I'm not sure if the US is the same as our course but we have black, blue, whites, red so I'll frame it around that.

0-9 Any tee

10-24 Any tee except tips/blacks

24+ Whites or Reds unless comps dictate otherwise. 

[Rob Person]

2 hours ago, MissionMan said:

I'm going to say that whilst I don't believe your handicap should force you to play off specific tees, I do believe it should limit what tees you can play off. As an example, having a 24 handicap play off the tips is just going slow down the field unnecessarily. 

I'm not sure if the US is the same as our course but we have black, blue, whites, red so I'll frame it around that.

0-9 Any tee

10-24 Any tee except tips/blacks

24+ Whites or Reds unless comps dictate otherwise. 

Most here have a guide at the first tee

Some use handicap,  some use driver distance.   Definitely not consistent throughout though.

Which makes me wonder if any of these courses are suggesting the tee box play based off of their course ratings???

[MissionMan]

2 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

Most here have a guide at the first tee

Some use handicap,  some use driver distance.   Definitely not consistent throughout though.

Which makes me wonder if any of these courses are suggesting the tee box play based off of their course ratings???

On our course, the ratings change for each tee. I’m an 9 off the tips and a 5 off the reds. I would say tee box based on course rating makes sense. I’ve played the tips in a comp where the distances are utterly insane. 490 yard par 4’s with ridiculously narrow fairways. 

[sp0rtsfan86]

I've been on a course where they ask how far you hit it and what your handicap is. From there, they tell you which tees to play from. 

I've also seen it "suggested" on course scorecards.  

As much as I think we should be allowed to choose our own adventure, I've seen what happens when new golfers decide to play from the back tee  It's 6 hour rounds and tons of re-teeing and trying to find balls in the rough. Even in scramble formats, it takes forever.

I think a course needs to be proactive and allow the ranger to make a judgment call. If they see a golfer that will be overmatched, make them play up a tee. Otherwise, let them rip.

[chisag]

... I'm gonna post an exceptional exception from yesterday. I played behind two ASU students and one was a little erratic and the other a beginner. To my surprise they were one of the faster twosomes I have ever followed. The erratic player could hit an excellent shot followed by a poor shot and the beginner only hit horrible shots. The beginner never took a practice swing and I saw him take three swings after dropping his drive next to his partners drive in the fairway after hitting one OB off the tee. It was pretty amazing how fast he moved. A couple times I dropped an extra ball to work on a specific shot and by the next tee they were already gone. We finished in just under 3 hours. 

... Maybe    are real too? 

 

[funkyjudge]

15 hours ago, Rob Person said:

Most here have a guide at the first tee

Some use handicap,  some use driver distance.   Definitely not consistent throughout though.

Which makes me wonder if any of these courses are suggesting the tee box play based off of their course ratings???

While I am very comfortable playing 18-hole courses from whatever tees result in a total playing distance of 6,200-6,450 yards, I will gladly move up to shorter tees when playing with golfers who are uncomfortable or who just don’t have the distance to play at those lengths.

Two of my close friends who got me playing golf back in the 1980s no longer hit the ball as far as I do (both could hit it much further than I did a couple of decades ago). When we play together, I automatically move up to the gold tees, as much as one of these guys constantly protests. Ironically, he is the shortest hitter among the three of us, but his ego takes over and he often insists that “real men don’t play from the gold tees”.  If we play from the white tees, by about the third hole this guy is regularly grumbling and cursing about not being able to reach par 4s and 5s in regulation, and he is also unable to reach some par 3s from the white tees.  It has gotten to the point where most of his longtime golfing buddies just no longer want to play golf with this guy.  The other guy was stubborn like that until about two years ago, but he has finally come around and plays the tees that fit his limitations.

[Josh Parker]

51 minutes ago, chisag said:

... Maybe    are real too? 

According to my three year old,  both of these are very real....  

[Old New Golfer]

I went down and played Torrey Pines. I took a cart because I always do with a new course to me. Did alot anyways. I couldn't believe these three guys. Early morning group. I could barely keep up.

[MattWillGolf]

I wouldn’t call it perfect but it’s a good starting point. And it depends on the course. I suppose a good gauge is what do you do off the tee. Golf is hard enough. Don’t make it harder unnecessarily. But in most cases ego is the biggest cause for folks playing the “wrong” tees.

[chisag]

8 minutes ago, MattWillGolf said:

I wouldn’t call it perfect but it’s a good starting point. And it depends on the course. I suppose a good gauge is what do you do off the tee. Golf is hard enough. Don’t make it harder unnecessarily. But in most cases ego is the biggest cause for folks playing the “wrong” tees.

 

... Good stuff there. Taking it a step farther, if you are a high index player but hit the ball well off the tee and suffer with your short game or erratic iron play, you can always move back a tee box on the 2nd hole. Or even better, move up a tee. But as you said, it's as good a starting point as any. 

... I have posted many times I usually play a combo tee at both my winter and summer courses because it provides a nice challenge on some holes and a few easy holes with most right in the middle. The last thing I want is a wedge into every green or a hybrid/fairway wood into several par 4's. Some wedges, mid irons a long iron or two and one hybrid or fairway wood provides a nice variety. 

...  At 71 I am around 250-260 off the tee, sometimes a little shorter and sometimes a little longer. What I find very interesting is I get comments that I should move back a tee box   especially if players I am paired up with are shorter than me off the tee. Ego evidently prevents them from joining me on the more forward tees or even a combo tee. Occasionally I do get paired up with some that join me after struggling for a few holes but they are the exception. 
 

[Rob Person]

40 minutes ago, MattWillGolf said:

I wouldn’t call it perfect but it’s a good starting point. And it depends on the course. I suppose a good gauge is what do you do off the tee. Golf is hard enough. Don’t make it harder unnecessarily. But in most cases ego is the biggest cause for folks playing the “wrong” tees.

Absolutely!!!  Knowing your clubs distances is key!!