Mizuno GRAD

[Manbropig]

Hey guys, I just wanted to know if anyone knows anything about the Mizuno GRAD irons. For the next few months, this 9 iron I was given is going to be used for the range.

 

 

 

[Manbropig]

Whoever used it before me sure was hitting that spot a lot! I was wondering why it rusted like that (assuming they stay mostly dry) and this "little" answer gave me even more info! I found it on Yahoo Answers (man does this place help me during school and now this!). you learn more than something new everyday!

 

Oxidatiion of metal, (rust), is not always a function of having the clubs wet. Be mindful that on the golf course superintendents use a variety of herbicides, pesticides and other chemicals to maintain the "look" the players at the course come to expect. The rust on clubs has a great deal to do with the chemistry of the metal used and method or production. The two most widely used in order of large scale production are casting, forging and machineing via CNC, Forged clubs withsyand moisture and consequently rust because the carbon steel used is plated after the club has been finished. Any percussion marks or removal of the plating will result in immediate rust spots. Most cast clubs are made of stainless steel which results in very little rust except for minot pin point spots where the manufacturer does not use solid billets but includes scrap into the melt of the metal beinbg used, in this case let's say 431 S/S or 17-4 S/S, designators you may have seen on club head. Any impurities which are on the surface of your clubs will show tiny rust spots if at all. The time line for thr rust to be evident can be sped up with the introduction of an agent like salt, corrosive chemicals and exposure to other clubs you may play with that are what is sometimes called "raw". Usually wedges which are carbon steel and have not been plated. Unpleaseing cosmetically these minor spots when not on the face will not chnage the playing characteristics of the clubs. To minimize rust simply dry your clubs after play and during lonf durations of not being used spary a product like WD40 on the club head, Careful not to apply spray to the ferrule, and cover with a plastic sandwich baggie. Persistent and larger spots can be removed by using 0000 steel wool with a rust remover. Again careful not to apply to mush pressure and over too large an area the results of which can ruin the balsted or vibrated finish on the heads. Golf shops do sell cleaning products for such purposes. If the rust becomes excessive return the clubs to the purchase site and exchange for a new set. Chinese factories routinely add scrap metal to the melt as do many of the other non domestic manufacturers. Wilson no longer maintains its own production facilities.

[RoverRick]

Just for your general fund of knowledge. That club is rusted in that spot because chrome in that area has been worn away by repeatedly hitting the ball in that spot. Clubs are either forged or cast. Most forged clubs are made of mild carbon steel that is softer and thus feels softer. These clubs are then chromed (usually) because otherwise they would rust. Mizuno, at least lately, has a double chrome process and there chrome is thicker and in my opinion look better that many other manufacturers but to be fair about it, many other manufacturers use a satin finished chrome to cut down on glare.

 

The cast golf club is typically is cast out of stainless steel. This is steel with nickel and chromium and other thing mixed in it. Stainless steel is typically used because the steel is poured into the mold while it is hot enough to be a liquid or semi-liquid. Because of the greater flowability of stainless steel over carbon steel, it is used because there is less chance of their being a void in the mold. Of course the stainless steel does not have what we call rust on it.

 

There are some forged clubs that are forged from stainless steel, Titleist 775's were forged out of both, two different sets. I think the TM and Callaway Proto were forged out of stainless. But these have a different feel to them than those forged out of carbon.

[Manbropig]

I'm guessing forged clubs are the more sought after clubs due to the softer feel then?

[revkev]

Come on Richard you and I absolutely can curve the ball however we want - 360 degrees in fact at 280 - 255 off the tee and from there the ball may be pitched in any direction desired.

 

That's really what the 280 guys mean they've just left out that important last step because they recall the early days of texting when providers charged by the word.

 

Oh and of course for many the 255 is really 230. Had a funny occurance playing with dogpro last summer - got on the first tee and cranked a drive right down the middle - one of the guys playing with goes, "Wow I thought you said you were short - that's 250 right down the middle." We measured it, 235 - His friend "regularly" hit it over 300 - I have to admit that he was long but we measured every single drive he hit that day and the longest was 285 - not quite the average on tour. Most were in the 260 range - still very long.

[The Dansome]

He's usually 20 yards closer to the green rev, you must of had him playing back a tee that day

[Blade]

I refuse to claim to anyone how far I hit a shot unless I have a way to measure it with GPS or something. I have a buddy who's happy when he shoots under 110 and he claims he hits his 3 wood 300 yds. Yet he can't hit a driver to save his life! Yea right. I'm buying that. I just keep quiet.

[ZenGolfer]

Here are some videos that are pretty much a must-see if you are new to Mizunos and forged irons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwIItJIfxMQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imweie6yDAo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkb12RwntlM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IAdJL7amws

[revkev]

Here are some videos that are pretty much a must-see if you are new to Mizunos and forged irons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwIItJIfxMQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imweie6yDAo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkb12RwntlM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IAdJL7amws

 

 

I really enjoyed these particularly the Q and A one - I can't believe you could bend a club that much but if it's forged it makes sense - I'm not concerned about the 2 degrees that I'm wanting out of my short irons now - Thanks man - truly appreciate it.

[ZenGolfer]

They're great posts whether they're new or not. If ya like Muzzy it are interested in em, GG did ya a huge favor.

 

Thanx a lot for the post!

 

:-)

 

Fairways & Greens 4evet

True, most of those videos arent all that new but for anyone who is new to the game, its a needed level of base knowledge.

If we are going to talk about the differences between cast and forged, the OP first needs to understand the differences between the 2 manufacturing processes. Personally, Im of the mind that forged is superior because it changes the metal on a molecular level but theres certainly a lot of very good cast irons out there and casting has gotten much better in recent years due to vacuum casting. Theres certain advantages to forging that casting will never be able to match but vacuum casting has greatly reduced the problems with air pockets that cast clubs used to suffer from.

[ZenGolfer]

I really enjoyed these particularly the Q and A one - I can't believe you could bend a club that much but if it's forged it makes sense - I'm not concerned about the 2 degrees that I'm wanting out of my short irons now - Thanks man - truly appreciate it.

You can bend ANY club thats carbon steel, be it forged or not. Vokeys can be bent too and they are cast carbon steel.

Theres a big misconception out there that forging causes a metal to be soft. That is not true. The softness comes from carbon steel, not from forging.

[ZenGolfer]

Yep. I didn't want to get into a chemistry lesson cuz that's probably taken things a little deeper than MBrP wanted to go but I put this question on a trivia test at my club and 70% missed it.

 

300 Series stainless steel is so soft that while it makes nice putters, to use it on irons & wedges would cause them to bend on routine shots. And remember the phrase heard worldwide to describe Mizzy irons as "buttery soft?"

 

Well, it's kinda funny cuz butter is cast. So much for the process

 

My father's partner, a Big 10 Collegiate player, played to a plus into his late fifties & he played a set(he actually had 3 sets plus the legendary, extremely LE Mizzy TN-87s) of Kenneth Smith forged blades which were from the 1960s(this was '89-91) and they were stainless steel and while I never played them, I did hit them and they felt great and other than they had a little too much writing on the face back for my taste, they were beautiful irons, shape wise.

 

Ironically, the main factor regarding the "feel" of a club is neither material nor process, but the shape of the club. In the 1980's a blind test was conducted with PGA Tour players, with them hitting identical unbranded irons, some cast & some forged, though all were made of the same material and the identical MB design. NONE could tell the difference. Only when CBs and different shaped MBs were introduced, could players differenciate, and then they said that the original MBs "felt" better, though all the CBs and different shaped MBs were forged. Interesting

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever

True, clubhead shape does effect the feel. I have to respectfully disagree about neither material nor process making a difference. If it didnt, thered be no such thing as forged clubs because the manufacturers arent going invest in a more expensive, more time-consuming process.

Each process has its pros and cons, which is why they both exist. Im a forged iron guy but Ive played many cast irons and theyre nice too. Theres nothing like a well-struck shot with a forged iron though.