The search for driver consistency

[chisag]

On 10/13/2023 at 7:19 PM, Jnoble89 said:

Definitely would not be surprised to see a gamer ball add some distance. Once the feel gets settled, too, I would think knowing how the shaft reacts in the swing will be advantageous. Going from the 1K black to the TR Red has to be a pretty big change in feel as if I am not mistaken the tip section of the black is a lot firmer?

 

... I have never played a shaft quite like the Ventus Red. I'm used to feeling a little kick from the tip or mid section of my shafts and the Red feels like nothing. Or more accurately, it just flows with my swing so not whippy and not boardy. Best combo I have played with the Stealth2 HD and I am having my best driving rounds in a long time. More distance and tighter accuracy. Unless you have a very aggressive swing, I doubt most will notice much of a feel difference between the Red/Blue or the Blue/Black although some may fell a slight difference with the Red/Black. But even then, not a night and day difference. They all feel pretty similar but produce a different trajectory. 

(Note: My experience is with the regular Velos not the TR) 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

22 minutes ago, Ben Joest said:

For those keeping track, the Jumbo Max grip lasted exactly 2 range sessions and 1 full round. Although, if I could have swapped it out at the turn, I would have. On almost every swing today, it felt like I was having trouble squaring the club face through the swing and it lead to a number of weak drives off to the right. Rectified that mistake almost as soon as I got home this evening. The driver now has this on it:

long may we be happy together.

Boy is the proper grip important. My Cobra's came with grips that just weren't for me. After a round or two I was done and ordered new grips. As soon as they were on, it was a night and day difference. My hands didn't hurt, and my accuracy was back. 

Glad you found something that works for you.

[GolfSpy_KFT]

10 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... I have never played a shaft quite like the Ventus Red. I'm used to feeling a little kick from the tip or mid section of my shafts and the Red feels like nothing. Or more accurately, it just flows with my swing so not whippy and not boardy. Best combo I have played with the Stealth2 HD and I am having my best driving rounds in a long time. More distance and tighter accuracy. Unless you have a very aggressive swing, I doubt most will notice much of a feel difference between the Red/Blue or the Blue/Black although some may fell a slight difference with the Red/Black. But even then, not a night and day difference. They all feel pretty similar but produce a different trajectory. 

(Note: My experience is with the regular Velos not the TR) 

This chart is super helpful @chisag as I did not realize that the tip section on the red was still considered stiff. Definitely will keep Red in mind when I am looking to upgrade shafts. I am now back to swinging the AJ Max, so first will have to decide which driver I want to stick with long term between it and TSi before committing to spending that kind of money. I was hoping to do a shaft fitting this Friday, matter of fact, but the times available with the fitter are right in the middle of the round I have scheduled with my uncle.

[chisag]

2 hours ago, Jnoble89 said:

This chart is super helpful @chisag as I did not realize that the tip section on the red was still considered stiff. Definitely will keep Red in mind when I am looking to upgrade shafts. I am now back to swinging the AJ Max, so first will have to decide which driver I want to stick with long term between it and TSi before committing to spending that kind of money. I was hoping to do a shaft fitting this Friday, matter of fact, but the times available with the fitter are right in the middle of the round I have scheduled with my uncle.

 

 

... You're welcome amigo. I am always amazed at the amount of ignorance when it comes to shafts and equipment for non forum players. Got paired up with a pretty decent player last week a few years younger than I and he says to me "I am surprised to see the Ventus Red Velocore in your bag. I have the Blue Velocore because I hit the ball very high and the soft tip in the Red produces too much spin." Then I watch him hit, at best a mid trajectory that isn't anywhere near high enough to max his carry and distance. I hit it much higher and about 25 yds past him and he has developed lock jaw.   

... On the back 9 I hit a decent drive and he caught one perfect ending up about 10 yds past me and says "And that's why the Blue is much better than the Red for me". I just smiled and said "Nice drive". I wasn't gonna waste my time with someone that saw the results of a higher trajectory and chose to ignore it and not only were his perceptions about an ideal trajectory was wrong, he had no idea how the Velocore shafts are constructed. Willful ignorance. Good luck when you find a fitting and date that works for you! 

[GolfSpy_KFT]

16 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... You're welcome amigo. I am always amazed at the amount of ignorance when it comes to shafts and equipment for non forum players. Got paired up with a pretty decent player last week a few years younger than I and he says to me "I am surprised to see the Ventus Red Velocore in your bag. I have the Blue Velocore because I hit the ball very high and the soft tip in the Red produces too much spin." Then I watch him hit, at best a mid trajectory that isn't anywhere near high enough to max his carry and distance. I hit it much higher and about 25 yds past him and he has developed lock jaw.   

... On the back 9 I hit a decent drive and he caught one perfect ending up about 10 yds past me and says "And that's why the Blue is much better than the Red for me". I just smiled and said "Nice drive". I wasn't gonna waste my time with someone that saw the results of a higher trajectory and chose to ignore it and not only were his perceptions about an ideal trajectory was wrong, he had no idea how the Velocore shafts are constructed. Willful ignorance. Good luck when you find a fitting and date that works for you! 

I figure if worst comes to worst, I can do a Taylormade fitting next spring at the course when they come on site for fittings and always have a bevy of premium shafts. Won't be the head I'd play, but I could at least see and feel how the different shafts react. 

[cksurfdude]

7 hours ago, Jnoble89 said:

I figure if worst comes to worst, I can do a Taylormade fitting next spring at the course when they come on site for fittings and always have a bevy of premium shafts. Won't be the head I'd play, but I could at least see and feel how the different shafts react. 

Just an fyi.. don't know about next year but this year one of the TM shafts was the Kai'Li series - with the Red being the "high launch" one.

[GolfSpy_BNG]

On 10/13/2023 at 2:35 PM, GolfSpy_APH said:

@Ben Joest I know it's a smaller head but the paradym TD is stupid good. And surprisingly forgiving. With the added options of the callaway sleeve it's a really good option to check out. 

 

I’d have to agree with Jamie on the Paradym TD.  Not sure the budget but the autoflex and free flex could bring launch up. 

[GolfSpy_BEN]

Watching back the videos from the Rapsodo of my last range session led me to notice something about my right arm in the swing that I think is contributing to the inconsistency. I’m going to hit some balls tomorrow and will report back. 

[Shapotomous]

On 10/15/2023 at 10:44 PM, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Boy is the proper grip important. My Cobra's came with grips that just weren't for me. After a round or two I was done and ordered new grips. As soon as they were on, it was a night and day difference. My hands didn't hurt, and my accuracy was back. 

Glad you found something that works for you.

I 100% agree Tom.  In my case its not only the size or # of tape wraps that make a difference but even the composition of the grip.  MCC's are not for me, I have tried them over an extended time, along with tour velvet & Winn.  I even had a couple Chamois I found in a stash from my Dads garage that I tried but I end up going back to GP Tour Wraps.  

Some might say robot testing proves there is no difference in distance or dispersion between grips but I disagree with the robot!  

[chisag]

7 hours ago, Shapotomous said:

I 100% agree Tom.  In my case its not only the size or # of tape wraps that make a difference but even the composition of the grip.  

Some might say robot testing proves there is no difference in distance or dispersion between grips but I disagree with the robot!  

 

... I don't use a glove and love the ST Hybrid +2 grips. They weren't offered with the Cobra challenge so I ordered Tour Velvet with 2 wraps under the bottom hand. While close to the same diameter of the ST Hybrid they just felt very different. When I re-shafted my King Tours with Steelfiber i80's and ST Hybrids the difference was immediate and just so much more comfortable. I could make the argument it was all mental but in the end if you play better with one over the other, isn't that all that matters? 

[GolfSpy_KFT]

@Ben Joest any updates since your last post? I know you mentioned noticing something in your Rapsodo video about your right arm  maybe leading to something causing inconsistency?

[GolfSpy_BEN]

15 minutes ago, Jnoble89 said:

@Ben Joest any updates since your last post? I know you mentioned noticing something in your Rapsodo video about your right arm  maybe leading to something causing inconsistency?

In a manner of speaking, yes. I played a round on Wednesday, where my feel on the tee box was keeping the right arm closer to the body throughout the swing. I noticed on the Rapsodo that I was too open on my way to and at the top, which was influencing my path to be rather steep.   

I will get some updated video at my next range session for comparison purposes. But the swing feels more shallow. 

[GolfSpy_BEN]

A range session on the books for tomorrow before the virtual league kicks off. I am going to do some comparative testing between the Ventus shaft and Tensei  1K black shaft. For kicks and giggles, I am also going to hit some balls with this:

To see how it stacks up to technology from this decade. Will report back…

[GolfSpy_APH]

If it was the BIO cell I would have said it would be just as good. AMP Cell was close, but didnt quick get the job done IMO. 

I have without a doubt settled on PTD head. Going to do a little more in terms shaft, but finally found the head that love to look, shape and most importantly performance... the sound is great too. 

[cnosil]

9 hours ago, Ben Joest said:

A range session on the books for tomorrow before the virtual league kicks off. I am going to do some comparative testing between the Ventus shaft and Tensei  1K black shaft. For kicks and giggles, I am also going to hit some balls with this:

Your probably try more drivers than I do putters

[GolfSpy_BEN]

45 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Your probably try more drivers than I do putters

It is entirely possible

[GolfSpy_BEN]

5 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

If it was the BIO cell I would have said it would be just as good. AMP Cell was close, but didnt quick get the job done IMO. 

I have without a doubt settled on PTD head. Going to do a little more in terms shaft, but finally found the head that love to look, shape and most importantly performance... the sound is great too. 

That is fantastic! To be clear to all, this amp cell was in my bag for the better part of a decade. Granted when the kids were younger I wasn’t playing as much, but I loved this driver dearly. It will be nice to swing it again, for old time’s sake

[GolfSpy_KFT]

6 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

If it was the BIO cell I would have said it would be just as good. AMP Cell was close, but didnt quick get the job done IMO. 

I have without a doubt settled on PTD head. Going to do a little more in terms shaft, but finally found the head that love to look, shape and most importantly performance... the sound is great too. 

How's the forgiveness of the PTD been @GolfSpy_APH? I am guessing you're a pretty consistent ball striker, but on any slight mishits to do you see much of a drop in performance? Such a good line of drivers this year from Callaway.

[GolfSpy_APH]

Just now, Jnoble89 said:

How's the forgiveness of the PTD been @GolfSpy_APH? I am guessing you're a pretty consistent ball striker, but on any slight mishits to do you see much of a drop in performance? Such a good line of drivers this year from Callaway.

Granted I havent been on a sim, but it has been the best I have used to date. The G430 LST being a close second. 

[GolfSpy_KFT]

I too have settled on driver for the (short) remainder of this season and into next season in the Aerojet Max. Not to say the TSi3 won't get a run over the winter and then next spring, but the AJ Max has been so good towards the end of the season here which I can honestly say I did not expect at all. I've been able to work the ball left to right, thanks to a small "feel" change at the top of my backswing and the ball just GOES. Should try the TSi again to see if it would carry over with it as well, but it's hard to put down the Cobra when it's performing like it has been. 

[bens197]

My TSi3 experiment has failed and while I do not want to quit on the club and its components, nothing has been able to compete with my G400 LST.  

I say it confidently because I am straighter and as far if not further with this (because I can hit it on the screws more often) than anything else at the moment.

Since its release we've seen the G410, G425 & G430 which means we are approaching 7 years since inception.  That is a LOT of technology and I hope that when this driver meets its inevitable maker there will be some combo equal to the task.

[GolfSpy_BEN]

From today’s range session:

I went into this with the intention of testing the Ventus TR red against the Tensei 1K Black shaft that came with the TRS3 that I am currently gaming, while also getting some swings in with a Cobra Amp Cell that I have owned and loved for at least a decade. So first the Amp Cell:

This was the best shot of the lot

 

The dispersion:

average launch angle:

and shot shape chart:

The good ones I hit felt great, but most of them were high, spinny slices.

Verdict:

back to the mothballs you go.

 

Next I hit a number of drives with the TSR and the Ventus shaft:

 

The dispersion:

The 

Weird that this would be considered optimal, but okay.

Lastly, shot shape chart

i still think camera angle influences this too much, as there were only 2-3 that I would say were definitely sliced, but

Verdict:

Better than the cobra, but still not great. Let’s see what the Tensei can do

 

The dispersion

average launch angle

very similar to the Ventus, but this time the insights report decided it was not a great job. Make of that what you will. 
 

Shot shape chart

The eye test told me that this was the better of the 2 options. The feel test echoed that sentiment. And now the numbers have confirmed it, for my swing the Tensei 1K Black is a better shaft. 

Now all that is left to do is decide whether I want to change the adapter on the Ventus shaft to a Ping and give it a run with the G425 Max head I have or post it in the classifieds and let someone else try their hand at unlocking it’s magic.
 

 

[Josh Parker]

6 minutes ago, Ben Joest said:

From today’s range session:

I went into this with the intention of testing the Ventus TR red against the Tensei 1K Black shaft that came with the TRS3 that I am currently gaming, while also getting some swings in with a Cobra Amp Cell that I have owned and loved for at least a decade. So first the Amp Cell:

This was the best shot of the lot

Rapsodo_MLM_Ben_Joest_23101240.mov 12.32 MB · 0 downloads  

The dispersion:

average launch angle:

and shot shape chart:

The good ones I hit felt great, but most of them were high, spinny slices.

Verdict:

back to the mothballs you go.

 

Next I hit a number of drives with the TSR and the Ventus shaft:

Rapsodo_MLM_Ben_Joest_23101252.mov 12.28 MB · 0 downloads  

The dispersion:

The 

Weird that this would be considered optimal, but okay.

Lastly, shot shape chart

i still think camera angle influences this too much, as there were only 2-3 that I would say were definitely sliced, but

Verdict:

Better than the cobra, but still not great. Let’s see what the Tensei can do

Rapsodo_MLM_Ben_Joest_23100103.mov 12.25 MB · 0 downloads  

The dispersion

average launch angle

very similar to the Ventus, but this time the insights report decided it was not a great job. Make of that what you will. 
 

Shot shape chart

The eye test told me that this was the better of the 2 options. The feel test echoed that sentiment. And now the numbers have confirmed it, for my swing the Tensei 1K Black is a better shaft. 

Now all that is left to do is decide whether I want to change the adapter on the Ventus shaft to a Ping and give it a run with the G425 Max head I have or post it in the classifieds and let someone else try their hand at unlocking it’s magic.
 

 

Great info and it looks like you are narrowing down the winner. 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

before anyone talks about getting a new driver

 

[GolfSpy_BEN]

3 minutes ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

before anyone talks about getting a new driver

 

[twyatt700]

7 hours ago, bens197 said:

i3 experiment has failed and while I do not want to quit on the club and its components, nothing has been able to compete with my G400 LST.  

I say it confidently because I am straighter and as far if not further with this (because I can hit it on the screws more often) than anything else at the moment.

Since its release we've seen the G410, G425 & G430 which means we are approaching 7 years since inception.  That is a

My buddy was still in the G400 until the face cracked this summer. I have the G430 max which he threw onto his shaft for a round and loved it. His comment was the increase in forgiveness on lower strikes, but he's also a plus HCP player. I love my G430 so I think you'll be fine once you're forced to make a change. 

[bens197]

2 hours ago, twyatt700 said:

My buddy was still in the G400 until the face cracked this summer. I have the G430 max which he threw onto his shaft for a round and loved it. His comment was the increase in forgiveness on lower strikes, but he's also a plus HCP player. I love my G430 so I think you'll be fine once you're forced to make a change. 

I think so too. It’s been nice having a trusted club that’s stood the test of time. 
 

and when that day comes im certain ill find something. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

@Ben Joest I know we have talked about it a little, but what are your preferred shapes for heads? Is there one that inspires more confidence vs another?

[Kanoito]

I've said it many times... I just can't get along with PING products... but after 3 out of 4 golf buddies insisted I go PING if I'm struggling with the driver, I gave it a swing for 18 holes and it definitely changed my perception towards the brand.

Winter is coming, so I'll wait for the nice weather in April to get a fitting and see if the results are still there...

[OldCaddie]

On 10/3/2023 at 10:46 PM, Ben Joest said:

Hello Folks! 
 

Many of you have seen me around the forum popping up in various threads here and there. I have written about my evergreen fascination with muscleback blades. More recently, I  wrapped up testing the latest Titleist irons. Now, I am starting this thread as a means of having a place to record my thoughts and findings as I figure out a path forward regarding the Driver in my bag. As the title describes, I am looking for consistency, so I am going to put the 3 drivers currently in my possession up against one another and see which wins out. 
 

Let’s meet the competitors:

Current Gamer

The current gamer is a Titleist TSR3, 9 degrees with a stiff Tensei black 1K shaft. I have it adjusted up 1.5 degrees with the weight set in the second to last position towards a draw bias.

Former Gamer

A Callaway Rogue ST TD LS, 9 degree with a Tensei white X-stiff shaft. I have it set up 1 degree.

Former Former Gamer

A Ping G425 Max, 9 degree with the Ping tour stiff shaft. I have it adjusted 1.5 degrees with the weight toward the heel to promote a draw bias. 
 

My small miss is a push fade. My big miss is banana slice. My over compensating miss is a low hook. 
 

A part of this journey is going to be working toward eliminating the over the top move that periodically works it’s way into my swing when I’m either trying to kill it or starting to fatigue. I will also be using a series of range sessions to determine which of these 3 drivers gives me the best distance, dispersion, reliable shot shape. 

I am going to be very interested in this. You swing and miss patterns are the same as mine.  Been fighting it all year.